SHAKING by Bradford Keeney

[Mokona]

SO much truth here!

 

i hope you will take this response as a question rather than a challenge. it's quite clear that you've been around the block and you know what you're talking about. i don't want to invalidate anything that you've stated because i know that there are some very real issues with this kind of thing. i've seen unethical exploitation take place. but at the same time, i just don't feel comfortable drawing lines and setting limits. it's totally necessary in the lay-world where there's an open-door policy and some people who really shouldn't even be there show up, but i've also seen these kinds of things turn TOTALLY sexual and frenzied, with strangers hooking up and going at it while others are dancing, screaming, and speaking in tongues, and it was amazing. i'm reminded of Oz House and Thelema Lodge, both of the OTO, not to mention a few wiccan celebrations. not open to the public, but certainly large groups of strangers who dare to let go COMPLETELY, and nothing is taboo.

 

maybe the difference is that every occasion of this nature that i've witness/participated in was presided over by a Priestess, a Mother. i don't know. it was the women who were the most wild, and the men were largely passive once they paired up. i remember feeling wild and unbridled, and i remember locking eyes with a woman and immediately feeling submissive the moment she touched my face, completely taken in, as if my purpose on earth was to love and to please her in that moment. i felt almost like her pet. i was genuinely in love with her, albeit only for one night. anyways, that only happened once. other events i just stayed enraptured in the dance and the calling out, but still a lot of touchy-feeliness going on.

 

some people really just have no business at events like that, or with teachers like that. but for others, it can be a truly beautiful thing to submit, to give ones personal authority over to another, or to the pure primordial spirit.

 

i don't think there's such thing as a 'common sense, self protective' way to surrender. that's not surrender then. and there are many teachers whom NO ONE should surrender to. but at the end of the day, the seeker has to decide whom to submit to, or if to submit at all, as there are plenty of practices that don't require absolute vulnerability. but there are no real safeguards, and i honestly don't think there should be. i don't think you can transcend good & evil if there are.

 

what are your thoughts on this, specifically? am i not appreciating the disparity of power between the unethical and the naive? or am i being naive myself? whatever it is, let me have it!

 

all in love,

 

...

 

 

Dunno bro, but I fell in love with a goddess and became addicted, if that makes sense. I'm better now, sometimes that power takes hold and nothing else can compare, but you just can't go out and make love from thin air and ijnect yourself with it, or bliss.. i'd submit to her, and just let the fun happen. There was caring involved and I don't understand what good or evil has to do with submitting, but I may be reading your post wrong.

 

Anyway, I'm looking at Bradford's site, I wonder if he travels or if just stays local when he isn't leaving for trips to Africa.

[ShaktiMama]

SO much truth here!

 

i hope you will take this response as a question rather than a challenge. it's quite clear that you've been around the block and you know what you're talking about. i don't want to invalidate anything that you've stated because i know that there are some very real issues with this kind of thing. i've seen unethical exploitation take place. but at the same time, i just don't feel comfortable drawing lines and setting limits. it's totally necessary in the lay-world where there's an open-door policy and some people who really shouldn't even be there show up, but i've also seen these kinds of things turn TOTALLY sexual and frenzied, with strangers hooking up and going at it while others are dancing, screaming, and speaking in tongues, and it was amazing. i'm reminded of Oz House and Thelema Lodge, both of the OTO, not to mention a few wiccan celebrations. not open to the public, but certainly large groups of strangers who dare to let go COMPLETELY, and nothing is taboo.

 

maybe the difference is that every occasion of this nature that i've witness/participated in was presided over by a Priestess, a Mother. i don't know. it was the women who were the most wild, and the men were largely passive once they paired up. i remember feeling wild and unbridled, and i remember locking eyes with a woman and immediately feeling submissive the moment she touched my face, completely taken in, as if my purpose on earth was to love and to please her in that moment. i felt almost like her pet. i was genuinely in love with her, albeit only for one night. anyways, that only happened once. other events i just stayed enraptured in the dance and the calling out, but still a lot of touchy-feeliness going on.

 

some people really just have no business at events like that, or with teachers like that. but for others, it can be a truly beautiful thing to submit, to give ones personal authority over to another, or to the pure primordial spirit.

 

i don't think there's such thing as a 'common sense, self protective' way to surrender. that's not surrender then. and there are many teachers whom NO ONE should surrender to. but at the end of the day, the seeker has to decide whom to submit to, or if to submit at all, as there are plenty of practices that don't require absolute vulnerability. but there are no real safeguards, and i honestly don't think there should be. i don't think you can transcend good & evil if there are.

 

what are your thoughts on this, specifically? am i not appreciating the disparity of power between the unethical and the naive? or am i being naive myself? whatever it is, let me have it!

 

all in love,

 

...

 

 

I will respond to this first:

i don't think there's such thing as a 'common sense, self protective' way to surrender. that's not surrender then. and there are many teachers whom NO ONE should surrender to. but at the end of the day, the seeker has to decide whom to submit to, or if to submit at all, as there are plenty of practices that don't require absolute vulnerability. but there are no real safeguards, and i honestly don't think there should be. i don't think you can transcend good & evil if there are.

 

 

I would say choose your Master or your Mistress carefully. IMO, whomever you choose to be your guru their job is to turn the adoration of the external guru to the guru/master/mistress within you, the person doing the surrendering. Some people put more energy into choosing their fantasy football team than they do in choosing a master.

 

I live in Colorado where the mountain, Pikes Peak is. It is over 14000 feet high. You can drive to the top in a couple of scary hours. When you get to the top you can buy a t shirt that says, "Real men don't use guard rails."

 

The teacher you choose functions for many as a guard rail. It keeps you from going over the edge to crash and burn.

 

There is every year a race to the top of the mountain. If you are a professional driver you can get up there in the record of about 11 minutes and 31 seconds.

 

Here is a video of the last leg of the Pikes peak race a couple of weeks ago in a porche with the camera inside the driver's car:

 

 

Some of us are professional drivers on the path and some of us are rank noobs and there are many that fall in between. If you are a professional driver with training and experience and you know your vehicle and what kind of fuel you are pumping through it, then go ahead and run your practice without guard rails. I do it and it is awesome. I love taking risks but it is not for everybody.

 

Obviously you are comfortable in your vehicle and testing the boundaries of the spiritual frontier. Many are not and they should not without some serious coaching and introspection. Tantra can be about running outside the boundaries of the status quo spiritual practice to reach union with the divine.

 

You are doing well.

 

s

[freeform]

Thanks for the conversation.

s

 

Thank you. It's been very informative and a pleasure.

[Ya Mu]

From what I have seen shaking that is induced by the energy itself will always yield higher energy cultivation results than shaking induced by the person; this is not much different than vigorous dancing, rebounding or any number of other physical exercises, all of which can help the body, but certainly are not optimized for energy cultivation.

[Ulises]

<bump> for Ulises reminding me about this older thread...

 

 

Excellent thread1

Thank you

[Birch]

Oh neat! That Bradford Keeney mp3 podcast interview on here today was pretty rockin.

[Desert Eagle]

video

[gendao]

A very interesting correlation to ancient Chinese medicine:

"The method of transmitting qi probably goes back to the very roots of Chinese medicine in ancient shamanism. The word for doctor or medicine in Chinese is yi (醫), a word that originally consisted of 2 pictograms: a quiver of arrows in the top of the character and a dancing shaman (wu 巫 in Chinese) on the bottom. The arrows represent spiritual power, qi - either healing qi projected from the healer into the patient or arrows of noxious qi energetically removed by the healer." - p244, Kenneth Cohen, The Way of Qigong

Sounds remarkably like the Bushmen's "shaking medicine" using "arrows of n/om" in a nutshell:

Today’s Ju/’hoan Bushmen say that this ecstatic trembling, quaking, and shaking come from what they call n/om, an intangible energy or vital force similar to chi or kundalini. They believe it is the original source of ecstasy, healing, and transformation.

Edited June 29, 2011 by vortex

[Friend]

Edited November 17, 2011 by Friend

[Sahaj Nath]

There is a fine line in shaking practise.

Shaking is good when it comes to getting rid of Sick Qi and mobilizing.

arcording the Qigongteacher Zhi Chang Li.

 

When the shaking is spontaneus introduced by the Qi, the Body will stop automatically

when it is critical necessary to stop shaking. After shaking it seem to be necessary to refill the Space that is free now. When one bouncing around and shake by themself

it can again introduce other spontaneus movement but has to consider by using shaking as practise to loose a lot of Qi more than the body natural refill.

 

Q

 

i would imagine that if this were accurate, then the shakers of Bali would have been dropping like flies over the past few years. they shake from 6 to 8 hours each day, and seekers who have engaged the practice have healed everything from drug addiction to cancer.

 

better to approach such practices with the wisdom of ignorance, as Keeney would put it. explore it for yourself and know it intimately. you don't need lessons or a book to access it directly.

 

but...

 

in our modern time, what we DO know about the body (which the masters of old probably did not know) is that the skeletal structure is piezoelectric, meaning that when stress is applied (like through shaking) electromagnetic fields are generated. you can very easily energize every cell of the body, and without having to specifically direct energy or intention. simply surrendering.

 

i may write a post about it all when i get back from retreat, but this is something worth considering in the meantime.

[Friend]

Edited November 16, 2011 by Friend

[Nilo]

I love Braford's audio interviews. If one wants to induce shaking without making effort to shake then check out the Trauma release exercises by David Bercelli, some earth shattering stuff.

[SriChi]

This was fantastic reading, thanks to all! I just came back from a Ratu Bagus Shaking Retreat here locally.

 

At first, I was at odds with having to look at his picture and chant his name (Om Swastiastu Ratu Bagus, I love myself), but the more and more I focused on my heart, I felt better.

 

Then I started having mystical visions (like how I would with some plant medicine), and after burning through the pain and tiredness, I am craving shaking more and more. I'm sitting at work and shaking

 

I'm getting the Keeney book this Friday.

 

Time to go search for "Kunlun" for me