K?

[muz]

there is a lot of discussion on this board about kunlun and if it really works or not and i really couldn't give a shit, but, I was wondering if anyone has tried another k that undoubtedly has profound physical and mental effects...ketamine.

 

ketamine is hugely popular at squat parties here in london and its great fun to take it just to get wasted and stand in front of a massive stack of speakers blaring out various kinds of techno but its effects are also extremely usefully for giving an understanding of how to absorb energy from the earth and universe and make it flow around the body.

 

i have found that when taking things like acid and mushrooms, although they get me overflowing with energy, my mind is far too active and its hard to root myself to the ground. with ketamine it instantly roots me and shuts off unnecessary brain activity and makes every movement feel like im locked into some sort of taiji form. these experiences have helped to further my interest in such practices.

 

for anyone thats never taken it;

 

Ketamine: Summary of Physical Effects

 

1. Shuts down thalmic processing and sensory input

2. Shuts down primary survival instincts and urges (fight or flight, mating & reproduction, etc.)

3. Shuts down emotional response centers

4. Increases blood flow to the brain

5. Induces nystigmus (jittery or rapid eye movement) and salivation

6. Decreases brainwave activity in the beta (waking) range: 12-18+ hz

7. Increases brainwave activity in the alpha, theta, and delta (deep relaxation and sleep) ranges: 1-12 hz

8. Induces NDE, OBE, and Lucid Dream-like states

9. Produces a fully unconscious state at high doses

 

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ketamine/r...project_1.shtml

[sheng zhen]

1. Shuts down thalmic processing and sensory input

2. Shuts down primary survival instincts and urges (fight or flight, mating & reproduction, etc.)

3. Shuts down emotional response centers

4. Increases blood flow to the brain

5. Induces nystigmus (jittery or rapid eye movement) and salivation

6. Decreases brainwave activity in the beta (waking) range: 12-18+ hz

7. Increases brainwave activity in the alpha, theta, and delta (deep relaxation and sleep) ranges: 1-12 hz

8. Induces NDE, OBE, and Lucid Dream-like states

9. Produces a fully unconscious state at high doses

Dude, all these effects you get with regular meditation. And there is no psychosis or hallusinations involved.

 

There is no need to take drugs that make your life and your body and your mind unbalanced and illusory.

[muz]

Dude, all these effects you get with regular meditation. And there is no psychosis or hallusinations involved.

 

There is no need to take drugs that make your life and your body and your mind unbalanced and illusory.

 

 

i know, all i said was ketamine has helped to give me a better understanding of and further my interest in these practices.

 

please dont turn this into a drugs are bad thread, i am more than aware of the damage drugs can do and also of the immense benefits they can have for people too! all i want to know is if anyone here has used ketamine and what they think of it....

[Patrick Brown]

If people want to play with drugs that's their choice although I don't recommend it. Yes I tried acid, glue, speed and tons of dope but that's about it. The glue was the one that give me a massive eye-opener and I basically saw the whole functioning of the universe/multiverse. I was completely off my head and luckily survived without any physical or mental damage.

 

The problem with drugs is that you end up with a whole variety of experiences but no understanding. So when you start to think about all those experiences your task of unifying them and giving them meaning is almost impossible.

 

I know and have meet many hardcore drug users and non of them have anything of spiritual value to offer. In fact most if not all have either overdosed on smack, committed suicide, have severe mental conditions or have simply closed down to anything spiritual and live in their desires.

 

Sorry to sound so negative but I don't think drugs are generally a good option for most people. The odd acid trip might help open some people up but of course it might also induce psychosis.

Edited August 2, 2008 by Patrick Brown

[muz]

If people want to play with drugs that's their choice although I don't recommend it. Yes I tried acid, glue, speed and tons of dope but that's about it. The glue was the one that give me a massive eye-opener and I basically saw the whole functioning of the universe/multiverse. I was completely off my head and luckily survived without any physical or mental damage.

 

The problem with drugs is that you end up with a whole variety of experiences but no understanding. So when you start to think about all those experiences your task of unifying them and giving them meaning is almost impossible.

 

I know and have meet many hardcore drug users and non of them have anything of spiritual value to offer. In fact most if not all have either overdosed on smack, committed suicide, have severe mental conditions or have simply closed down to anything spiritual and live in their desires.

 

Sorry to sound so negative but I don't think drugs are generally a good option for most people. The odd acid trip might help open some people up but of course it might also induce psychosis.

 

 

again, im not after anyones opinion on how good or bad taking drugs can be, i want to know if anyone has taken ketamine and what they thought about their experience of it

[sheng zhen]

i know, all i said was ketamine has helped to give me a better understanding of and further my interest in these practices.

 

please dont turn this into a drugs are bad thread, i am more than aware of the damage drugs can do and also of the immense benefits they can have for people too! all i want to know is if anyone here has used ketamine and what they think of it....

It will inevitably turn into a "drugs are bad" thread because... DRUGS ARE BAD!!

 

With drugs we insert chemicals into our brain and body that upsets the balance and is totally out of context. It just creates imbalanced experiences, and no real understanding, like Mr.Brown here just mentioned.

 

But you see, with meditation and spiritual experiences the same chamicals are created within our body and brain. Only this time the whole body and consciousness is in on the game and prepared to deal with it. The it is the real experience that creates the chemicals.

 

With drugs its the other way around. And without the supporting context in all levels of our existence, physically, mentally, subconsciously, etc, the experience created by chemicals will be misunderstood. And therefore illusory.

 

Drugs should never be encouraged when it comes to spiritual cultivation.

[Taiji Bum]

...please dont turn this into a drugs are bad thread,...

Drugs are bad.

[muz]

It will inevitably turn into a "drugs are bad" thread because... DRUGS ARE BAD!!

 

With drugs we insert chemicals into our brain and body that upsets the balance and is totally out of context. It just creates imbalanced experiences, and no real understanding, like Mr.Brown here just mentioned.

 

But you see, with meditation and spiritual experiences the same chamicals are created within our body and brain. Only this time the whole body and consciousness is in on the game and prepared to deal with it. The it is the real experience that creates the chemicals.

 

With drugs its the other way around. And without the supporting context in all levels of our existence, physically, mentally, subconsciously, etc, the experience created by chemicals will be misunderstood. And therefore illusory.

 

Drugs should never be encouraged when it comes to spiritual cultivation.

 

 

please stop preaching to me and go tell someone that gives a fuck, all i want to know if anyone has taken ketamine and what they thought about the experience.....

[sheng zhen]

please stop preaching to me and go tell someone that gives a fuck, all i want to know if anyone has taken ketamine and what they thought about the experience.....

Couldnt you find a hippie-forum instead?

[Patrick Brown]

please stop preaching to me and go tell someone that gives a fuck, all i want to know if anyone has taken ketamine and what they thought about the experience.....

I think it's unlikely that you'll find anybody here that has tried ketamine. There used to be a big drug culture on tribe.net why don't you ask over there?

[muz]

Couldnt you find a hippie-forum instead?

 

i spent the majority of my childhood as a NED (an abbreviation, used in scotland for non educated deliquent) that ran around getting drunk and abusing drugs, fighting, breaking and vandalising things and generally being a cunt to people. my life has changed a lot and i have grown up and realised the error of my ways and have been making an effort to live more in tune with the natural way of things. if that makes me a hippy in your eyes then thats fair enough but thats got fuck all to do with what i said initially;

 

ketamine has increased understanding of and my interest in practices such as qigong and tai chi and when i return from my holiday in china on the 18th also i plan to start wing chun classes. i appologise if you have a problem with that.

 

i would like to know if anyone from this board has tried ketamine and how they compare what they felt on it to what they feel when meditating etc.. if you havent taken ketamine then thats something that you cant do so your input on this thread is unnecessary

[muz]

I think it's unlikely that you'll find anybody here that has tried ketamine. There used to be a big drug culture on tribe.net why don't you ask over there?

 

 

i wasnt sure if anyone would have taken ketamine but thought it would be worth asking after reading threads on mushies and acid etc.

 

tribe.net is not what im after, the summary of physical effects i posted at the start of the topic are all extremely similar to what is supposed to happen when you go into meditative states and i thought that these similarities might be interesting to some people on here but obviously not

[Patrick Brown]

I'm a hippie! Peace, love and flower power.

[shontonga]

Drugs are bad.

 

Yes.

Agreed.

Drugs are bad .

Yup, I Am in total agreement.

 

Very attached to that answer...

Hmmm?

Can sure make it hard to listen?

 

 

So now that's all said ...

am still interested Muz?

Haven't heard of ketamine?

don't think?

What is it derived from?

Does it go by other names?

 

 

 

Have you been finding your own personal(not read about)

experiences with mediation to be similar after experiences with "K"?

How so ?

 

 

When working with energy/meditation/spiritual life/all

it can be real hard to explain our experiences sometimes.

Language is ALWAYS lacking !

And we can only understand through our own lives, these things.

Sometimes to hear what another fellow has to say

will help make things click for us/them in some way?

Or offer us great questions to explore!

maybe even "Shock" us into enlightenment,LOL!

 

Am interested in hearing about folks personal experiences!

 

What have you learned?

What is confusing?

Share the Knowledge!

 

Be a hippie if you like, LOL

Share the Love,Share the Love!

 

Peace!

 

Shon

 

 

Dude.

?

You know...

 

Anyone past the age of 7 could talk about Drugs.

The effects they have on us/society.

We've all had them play apart in our lives, near or far.

We already know where we stand with what's right and wrong.

No need to argue it further,

our minds are already set in our opinions.

If we are on a forum like this we are all old enough to know our own minds.

Why not have some intelligent discussion ?

Without being overly attached to the outcome, might be fun?

Or emotionally attached to the substance of the discussion.

We might learn something!

Good Luck!

Have fun!

 

Lets play!

Edited August 2, 2008 by shontonga

[Ryan T.]

It will inevitably turn into a "drugs are bad" thread because... DRUGS ARE BAD!!

 

With drugs we insert chemicals into our brain and body that upsets the balance and is totally out of context. It just creates imbalanced experiences, and no real understanding, like Mr.Brown here just mentioned.

 

But you see, with meditation and spiritual experiences the same chamicals are created within our body and brain. Only this time the whole body and consciousness is in on the game and prepared to deal with it. The it is the real experience that creates the chemicals.

 

With drugs its the other way around. And without the supporting context in all levels of our existence, physically, mentally, subconsciously, etc, the experience created by chemicals will be misunderstood. And therefore illusory.

 

Drugs should never be encouraged when it comes to spiritual cultivation.

 

I would have to agree and disagree to some extent.

 

As a general rule, I don't think people should use "mind-altering" chemicals for the explicit purpose of engaging spiritual experience. That said, I spent many years doing just that and without those experiences I would not be here today with the ideas and values that I have. My drug experiences made me who I am today, good and bad. More good I hope.

 

I would also say that the vast majority of what we do...eating, drinking, emotional/intellectual relating to others, physical exercise, meditation, etc. has chemical effect in our bodies and brains. The process of life is a series of chemical reactions. It is not just that but it is always that. So I do think it is important to value it all and see how it can fit the bigger picture.

 

I would never recommend someone take ketamine. It's a cat tranquilizer. But I wouldn't recommend someone drink high-fructose corn syrup based sodas either. I am sure plenty of the members here drink them though and have a definite impact of the chemical make-up of their brains/bodies.

 

And I would not say that drugs in general cannot lead to some level of spiritual awakening. I just don't think you can maintain the awakening or reach a very high level. But for some, for many I would say, it is the foot-in-the-door that gets them on a spiritual path. Not everyone has the same path to walk.

[sheng zhen]

But for some, for many I would say, it is the foot-in-the-door that gets them on a spiritual path. Not everyone has the same path to walk.

You're right, not everyone walks the same path.

 

I was on the spiritual path befor I started doing drugs. So I did drugs to open up my spirituality. A lot of drugs. I really wanted spirituality and drugs gave me all the experiences I longed for.

 

Sad thing about it was that I got fucked up and have now spent thousands of dollars on therapy and many many years on healing and disarming all the illusions I acuired on my trips.

 

It dosent matter how fantastic the experience is, it dosent matter how close to reality it is either, when it comes from a drug and the hippie taking the drug dosent have the physical, mental or spiritual context to deal with it, it becomes a feeding ground for further illusions.

 

And the only one to decide if drugs can be good for you is if you have a spiritual teacher or therapist that tell you to do it. And how often does THAT happen??? We should never self-medicate our spiritual development with hallusinogenic drugs.

Edited August 2, 2008 by sheng zhen

[Ryan T.]

You're right, not everyone walks the same path.

 

I was on the spiritual path befor I started doing drugs. So I did drugs to open up my spirituality. A lot of drugs. I really wanted spirituality and drugs gave me all the experiences I longed for.

 

Sad thing about it was that I got fucked up and have now spent thousands of dollars on therapy and many many years on healing and disarming all the illusions I acuired on my trips.

 

It dosent matter how fantastic the experience is, it dosent matter how close to reality it is either, when it comes from a drug and the hippie taking the drug dosent have the physical, mental or spiritual context to deal with it, it becomes a feeding ground for further illusions.

 

And the only one to decide if drugs can be good for you is if you have a spiritual teacher or therapist that tell you to do it. And how often does THAT happen??? We should never self-medicate our spiritual development with hallusinogenic drugs.

 

I agree completely but without your own experiences doing that you would not be able to pass such insight on to others. Your path brings you to right now, enabling you to see a clarity that others may see using the experience of your eyes. That is why I cannot just throw out a blanket statement of drugs are bad. I just don't think things work that way.

[sheng zhen]

I agree completely but without your own experiences doing that you would not be able to pass such insight on to others. Your path brings you to right now, enabling you to see a clarity that others may see using the experience of your eyes. That is why I cannot just throw out a blanket statement of drugs are bad. I just don't think things work that way.

I believe I can throw out statements like this because after a while in our cultivation we reach a point where we are able to experience things other people experience. Its like a deeper state of empathy. And then we see with our own eyes, so to speak, that drugs are not nessecary for cultivation. It becomes obvious. They're just a sidestep or a blind road.

 

I met people at that time who had real spiritual and mystical insight but never did any drugs all their life. Thats when I realized what I was doing was pointless and destructive. They encouraged me and helped me to get out of it.

 

I know that we grow on every experience we have, good or bad, but that does not justify the use of drugs. This is a public forum, goddammit!!!

Edited August 2, 2008 by sheng zhen

[Ryan T.]

I believe I can throw out statements like this because after a while in our cultivation we reach a point where we are able to experience things other people experience. Its like a deeper state of empathy. And then we see with our own eyes, so to speak, that drugs are not nessecary for cultivation. It becomes obvious. They're just a sidestep or a blind road.

 

I met people at that time who had real spiritual and mystical insight but never did any drugs all their life. Thats when I realized what I was doing was pointless and destructive. They encouraged me and helped me to get out of it.

 

I know that we grow on every experience we have, good or bad, but that does not justify the use of drugs. This is a public forum, goddammit!!!

 

I'm sorry if this upsets you. But you have no idea that if you had not been doing what you had been doing that you would have even been in a position to to meet those people or have that insight. If the Buddha would have been poor and suffered all of his life would he have ever ventured out to seek what he found. We do not know.

 

I do not condone the use of drugs but I also cannot condemn another's path in spite of what I "know".

[mwight]

A neurotrek is reported to have the same effects you mention. My friend who has one says that at 0.07hz you feel high yet profoundly relaxed like a trance. No drugs required.

[Patrick Brown]

[Ryan T.]

[shontonga]

HeHehe!

couldn't resist, just read this.

... Thought of some bums...

 

"If God dropped acid, would he see people?"

 

~ Steven Wright

[Patrick Brown]

HeHehe!

couldn't resist, just read this.

... Thought of some bums...

 

"If God dropped acid, would he see people?"

 

~ Steven Wright

[sheng zhen]

I'm sorry if this upsets you. But you have no idea that if you had not been doing what you had been doing that you would have even been in a position to to meet those people or have that insight. If the Buddha would have been poor and suffered all of his life would he have ever ventured out to seek what he found. We do not know.

 

I do not condone the use of drugs but I also cannot condemn another's path in spite of what I "know".

Im not upset. Its may be my unskilled way of writing that maby make me look like that.

 

What Im trying to do is de-glorify drugs in realtion to spirituality. Because of the experiences we get on drugs we are so easily fooled into believing in them. We are fooled into believing they are of some higher consciousness. Amongst the very few real insights we get, there are so many illusion that follow that the use of hallusinogenic drugs for spiritual cultivation really is a waste of time.

 

When people are into drugs they think they are in full control. Ive been there. I only used drugs for my spiritual cultivation and thought I was a real shaman that could master these things alone. It was only after I met real spiritual teachers that I realized my drug experiences was fake. I believe Ive had all the drug experiences you can have, and looking back I would say there hardly anything I can trust from that time.

 

But it was not until I got a teacher that could point out my blindspots and illusions that I could realize this. Until then I though I was in full control and a spiritual person that have seen the secrets of the universe. This is how we are fooled by drugs. To bad we dont see it ourselves.