Is it real? National Geographic

[The Way 1]

[joeblast]

I think something to keep in mind here is that qi is not electromagnetism and to attempt to measure it as such is only going to confirm what it isnt.

[mwight]

I watched it, they picked the biggest bunch of whack jobs they could possibly find to portray qigong practice as a whole.

 

Watch these.

 

madoDvtKEes

(wim hof is a tummo master, discovery channel)

 

R-wuOYlxMSY

(history channel documentary on tummo)

 

 

SXsFndVCjMk

 

 

 

Aos0hnwiHt8

 

PERiIq5WM4M

 

TKuXuDCPfds

 

I cannot find the BBC Kick Ass Moves on youtube anymore, here they are on mininova

it was a series on the bbc about high level martial arts and lots of badass stuff.

 

 

http://www.mininova.org/tor/244885

[The Way 1]

Cool, thanks for posting these videos, I will be sure to watch them.

 

I guess you are right about the whack jobs on that show. The martial artist who claimed to train Bruce Lee seemed realy out there.

[daoian]

I've met several whack jobs that claim they can give a woman ten orgasms in a row. This doesnt mean tantric sex masters dont exist.

 

I've met several idiots who spend more money on their car than their rent. This doesnt mean that billionaires dont exist.

 

I've met several "phony chi masters" who claim to be able to project chi..

 

Guys... chi is a really simple concept.

In order for a physical event to happen, the energy required for the event must be present.

In order for energy to be present... there must be an intention.

 

Even in your body... in order for hair to grow, the nutrients and energy must be there first.

BUT what makes your hair grow begins with DNA. The DNA CODE IS INTENTION. DNA a plan to build.

 

So... if you want to turn on a light bulb, all you need is 60volts and a copper wire pair. volt=chi. wire=jing. wanting light=ae. BUT if you wanted to use air instead of wires, because air is a terrible conductor of electricity, you just need far more electricity. Lightning uses air and water particles to conduct electricity BUT it prefers a lightning rod because it conducts better. If you want to strike someone, use your fist. If you dont want to use air , you'll just need massive chi. ... oh... and good aim.

Edited August 15, 2008 by daoian

[The Cloudwalking Owl]

[daoian]

Daoism is a religion and/or a philosophy, neither of which have anything to do with developing "super powers". "Qigong" is a modern concept. The title was developed by the Chinese nationalist government in the early 20th century as a way saying that the health-giving ... This is not "chi", it is Newtonian physics!

 

1. POPULAR Daoism has become a superstition based religion.

2. qigong IS a modern concept if you consider chinese/sanscrit/atlantean civilizations modern.

In fact, in asia, the work GONG is a SUFFIX for any kind of cultivation. So your profession is called... JUN GONG.

3. Dao IS about developing superpowers. Super mental acuteness, super moral fiber, super spiritual connection, and yes.... super natural powers... The tao is a path you create.

 

Look.

 

at the age of 1, you get good at crawling... you use your hands and knees and use about 3 sq feet of earth to move about. At the age of 2, you take a quantum leap - dimensional jump and stand up using only about 12 sq inches of earth to move about...

 

do you see a path - process - gil?

 

Then at the age of 3, you get good at running... you take another miraculous quantum leap... now, instead of taking 20 footsteps to get to the fridge, you can jump and you only leave 3 footprints between the couch and the fridge. You start using less and less earth to reach your destination. you are using more and more heaven. You are even standing taller.

 

NOW... do you see a path (tao) developing?

 

A taoist is one who asks, what is the next miraculous quantum "step" along this path? What else is possible?

 

4. this is NOT Neutonian. This is Ancient Quantum Physics. "Man conducts between earth and heaven" - the Tao.

[Trunk]

Aos0hnwiHt8

A powerful version of Kan&Li mentioned in that vid.

 

Edited August 16, 2008 by Trunk

[kboom85]

wow never seen that last video of john mwight posted with the '1st westerner student'. Very confincing

also thx for the torrent link, downloading now

[The Cloudwalking Owl]

A powerful version of Kan&Li mentioned in that vid.

 

 

I wouldn't place much faith in this video. Everything I saw on it can be reproduced by various quite explainable phenomena. Fro example, did you notice that in some of the shots the guy was playing with the "funny bone" on the arms of the fellow on the massage table? There are a lot of things that you can do by manipulating the acupressure points of someone that will make their muscles jump.

 

As well, there is a phenonmena known as "suggestion" that many people are susceptible to. If you are good at it, and you find the right person, you can get them to do all sorts of things. One of the problems with videos is that producers only show you the situations where it "worked". This is also a problem with people who won't let you know anything about them---you have no way of checking up on stuff.

 

Finally, the bit about pushing the chopstick through the table. This would be very easy to reproduce simply by having a table with a hole drilled through the back. The knee could push the chopstick through the formica table top.

 

Ultimately, Daoism is about making people better human beings rather than being able to fart lightning bolts.

Nothing on this video---even if true---compares with the wonders of modern medicine and engineering.

[de_paradise]

National G has got it ass-backwards.

 

There is no proper agreed on definition of hypnosis, and the world's foremost hypnotists dont know why hypnosis works.It just does. So to claim something is hypnosis is making a jump into presupposition quicksand. Just because hypnosis has been accepted somewhat more as a "real thing" somehow makes it a concept we can use? No.

 

The reason I got into Taoism and qi last year was I was following a causation route from hypnosis TO qi, that is to say, qi is the basis or participant to many hypnotic effects.

 

If they want to disprove qi, then I'd better stay away from them or I may disappear.

[Trunk]

A powerful version of Kan&Li mentioned in that vid.

I wouldn't place much faith in this video. Everything I saw on it can be reproduced by various quite explainable...

My Kan&Li mention had to do with practice, not theoretical debate. And my note that it was powerful was based on personal experience. All within the realm of simple (not 'miraculous') personal results.

 

My comment towards "does qi exist?" was the kirlian photograph, totally within the realm of common occurance.

 

Those are just my contributions, by-the-way, I'm personally (long since) not "in" the debate of whether extraordinary things happen... and I think that - for most people - those issues are decided through direct personal experience.

Edited August 16, 2008 by Trunk

[The Cloudwalking Owl]

 

My comment towards "does qi exist?" was the kirlian photograph, totally within the realm of common occurance.

 

 

 

And my response is to look at this website: http://skepdic.com/kirlian.html

 

The "aura" in an Kirlian photograph is simply an electrical discharge---.

[froggie]

this is (all) a reflection of your own truth, not a reflection of ultimate truth, at all

it would be good to remember that.

 

A large part of the misconceptions come from the fact that taijiquan and neidan create very weird sensations in the human body and allow people to do some things that look absolutely miraculous. For example, at one point I was taught how to "take punches". The trick is to totally relax and learn not to tense when someone hits you. We would stand and another student would wail on our chests. If you tensed, you got really awful looking bruises. If you didn't, you would feel the force flow through your chest into your spine and down through your legs into the floor. It really feels like some cosmic force is going through your body. But on reflection, it occurred to me that what was happening was the force was simply being absorbed by the rib cage (which was a lot more flexible than most normal people's because the years of practice had reversed the transition of cartilage to bone), transferred to the spine and then through the legs. This is not "chi", it is Newtonian physics!

Edited August 16, 2008 by froggie

[The Cloudwalking Owl]

this is (all) a reflection of your own truth, not a reflection of ultimate truth, at all

it would be good to remember that.

 

 

Ah yes---but is it the "truth" that allows airplanes to fly through the air, or the "truth" that said that the earth is flat?

[froggie]

Ah yes---but is it the "truth" that allows airplanes to fly through the air, or the "truth" that said that the earth is flat?

 

you could name a thousand things why this is so.

i could name a thousand things why this isn't so.

and they will never be compatible. there are many types and kinds 'filters', for a reason, but probably not always the right reason, one could argue.

but we are not going to name them all, or are we? (i hope not lol! ... because what a waste of time and energy it would turn out to be.

but anyway, i will not do that. i will choose another kind of way and another format.

 

in essence, you are talking about what you know, and you do not want to go and try to arrange yourself to be possible to look into things that you don't know. it's really as simple as that. but ofcourse we know that nothing is actually as simple as we would perhaps have thought.

 

only when we realise that things are not as simple as we perhaps would have thought, can we go on and think and act on the things that we did not know about before.

[The Cloudwalking Owl]

in essence, you are talking about what you know, and you do not want to go and try to arrange yourself to be possible to look into things that you don't know. it's really as simple as that. but ofcourse we know that nothing is actually as simple as we would perhaps have thought.

 

only when we realise that things are not as simple as we perhaps would have thought, can we go on and think and act on the things that we did not know about before.

 

Wait a minute! I am not saying that I do not practice neidan or know the experiences people are talking about here. I am saying "been there, done that, and it isn't the way people are describing things---". That is very, very different from dismissing things out of hand.

[Trunk]

Edited August 17, 2008 by Trunk

[doc benway]

I haven't seen the Nat Geo program but will try to track it down for entertainment value.

I think that the discussion about Qi take a wrong turn early on in most cases.

It is not a discussion about the existence of Qi but one of definition.

 

Qi unquestionably exists as a concept and a word. It's deeply ingrained in the understanding of life in some cultures and not others. That's all any word is - a thought and a verbal or written representation of a thought, a label - just like an adhesive label with the word sofa written on it stuck on a bare floor. The word and thought Qi are never the thing. So what needs to happen is a discussion about what it is we are trying to point to with the label Qi.

 

I think that Nat Geo was trying to point out that supernatural manifestations of the kind very popular among a small number of people cannot be verified or reproduced under sufficiently standardized conditions. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't think they, or anyone, can disprove the existence or absence of Qi - just the inability of a few charlatans to come through with their bullshit claims. The best "Qi masters" generally will not perform their magic under sufficiently controlled circumstances to validate or invalidate their claims. Gee, I wonder why? Lack of confidence? Lack of honesty? There is certainly no lack of potential reward and opportunity...

 

Anyway - I am absolutely convinced of the existence of Qi from my own experiential perspective. But the thing is, Qi is just a word I am using to label something I feel or experience, NOT the other way around. My definition would be closer to that of daoian, though not identical. I experience Qi as sort of something that occurs at the interface of awareness, intention, attention, and the process of existence.

 

To date, there is no accepeted definition and no "objectively" measurable stuff or energy that has been validated by the scientific method that we can all point to and say THAT is Qi. Efforts to ascribe special power or ability to it are a human contrivance to use (usually exploit) the idea for personal gain. I find it better left undefined and minimally categorized or pigeon-holed. Demonstrations, descriptions, and definitions never capture it. Just like thoughts, words, and concepts are never that which they are trying to describe. The study of Taiji and Dao meditation, however, can certainly put one in touch with an experience of an activity or process that I feel comfortable labeling Qi.

[h.uriahr]

Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see

[Guest artform]

 

In some ways, science is now approaching music, sex and love, particularly through its study of the biology of altruism and the current explosion of new evidence and theory in neurosciences. Aren't the linkage of music, sex and love in fact an emerging scientific "theory>>>fact", as well as a virtually universal human experience?

 

Thanks Trunk!

 

all the best to all

 

artform

[Guest artform]

My mother in her mid-80s had two surgeries for a life threatening condition; the first emergency to stop the condition and the second to repair temporary elements from the first. She had thought out her choices and intention long before and had prepared a living will.

 

After recovering from the violent hallucinations induced by the morphine given her after the second surgery, she talked quietly with me and said that she could not continue this medical path, and invoked her living will with absolute, crystal clear intent.

 

Soon she was transferred to a palliative care ward. It was cramped and noisy; restless and uncomfortable for her initially. That evening she manifested many symptoms and several nurses and her doctor attended. My brother and his partner and my wife and I were there. At some point she escalated into severe coughing, mucus, and cramping; sitting up rapidly and falling back repeatedly.

 

My brother and I were on either side of her bed at this point and the nurses and doctor standing by, not having any particular diagnosis or treatment at that moment. My brother and I were each holding an opposite hand and elbow of our mother through this sitting up / falling back in an effort to cushion and stabilize her motion, while talking to her to comfort and elicit her reports of what was the problem /what was it she needed.

 

Both of us began to feel a great sense of heat/energy/scintillations in our hands, going deeper and deeper and rising in power. With this she relaxed and remained resting for a few moments and the nurses took over again.

 

Astounded at this phenomenon, and having that energy remain pulsating rapidly throughout our hands we went out to the corridor where our partners were watching all this and waiting. We asked them to put their hands out in front of them face up, and then hovered our hands just above theirs without quite touching. They could feel very palpable persistent energy/vibrations/warmth from our hands, after wondering why we asked them to do this. What was that?

 

As she was able to relax after this episode, but not having died then as seemed to be where things were headed that evening, she then slipped any medication out the side of her mouth and never ate or drank again, but agreed to me, my brother or our partners swabbing her mouth with a moisturizing gel. Fortunately she was able to be transferred to a private palliative care suite and lived relaxed, in and out of conscious lucid dream states talking but not in clear words to those in the dreams, and to us simultaneously for several days before going into a sleep/brief-waking/sleep cycles and then into a coma, until after my brother returned from a long-planned trip with his son, of about ten days. The next day with both my brother and I in her room with her, and after days of no movement and coma, she stirred, lifted her head the little she could and worked her desiccated mouth as best she could, determined to articulate what we heard as: "Thank you...", with the attempt at a smile as far as her body could then do that, and left her body then and there.

 

These energies exist. If you aren't open and/or if you intend not to sense them, you likely may not. That does not prove they do not exist. Because they do not fit our model of the electromagnetic spectrum, or tickle our sensing instruments does not mean they do not exist.

 

Although I have sensed and worked with my energies for some time, her emanations that evening took me completely by surprise and were so powerful, at first I did not equate what was happening to anything like chi.

The doctor and nurses showed no interest in discussing it.

 

It is salutary that just as physics thought we were finally approaching the Grand Unified Theory of everything physical/energetic, we found that the Standard Model and related variants only explain about 4% of reality and 96% is labelled Dark Energy and Dark Matter, two categories about which we can currently only begin to speculate.

 

this is a good time to be enfleshed here

 

artform

Edited September 10, 2008 by artform

[Unconditioned]

Ultimately, Daoism is about making people better human beings rather than being able to fart lightning bolts.

Nothing on this video---even if true---compares with the wonders of modern medicine and engineering.

 

Thank you!

 

There is a much loftier goal than super natural abilities. What I don't understand about people who pursue them purposely is - why? What's the point to that? To boost the ego? To manipulate? Perhaps for some good causes as well - healing, protection, etc. but is that all there is?

 

Far from it.

 

Tao is a term or a symbol to try to describe the source of everything, the true underlying 'blank' or 'void' from which all things come into existence. Taoism is about realizing what you are and your relation to life, existence, etc.

 

Physical forms of meditation and use of Qi can be used to act in harmony (for lack of a better word) with the Tao.

 

But in my opinion the 'outside' world is the tool, the manifestation, the movement, forms. The inside world is the doer, the divine will, the power, the current, the purest source of everything, sentience itself. When acting in the outer world from the inner world in balance, that is living Taoism.

 

In this harmony, the doing and the doer are one in the same singularity. This singularity is everything there is and those who exist in this perfect harmony have no individual self - they are just acting in accordance with the Tao itself. Those people are often called "enlightened" - it is a shift in consciousness that leads to untarnished, pure action in accordance with how everything IS and how everything will ever be.

 

I wish i could explain better but words only point to the Truth, ideas can never be Truth themselves.

[voidisyinyang]

http://gralienreport.com/psychic-phenomena...he-death-touch/

 

Interesting article on chi powers but the problem with all these "tests" is that the subjects are Westerners and not experts in the field. If you want the real thing I recommend qigong master Chunyi Lin who does long distance healing and teaches the Mayo Clinic doctors qigong. http://springforestqigong.com I took his classes and when he looks at a particular organ in your body just that organ ignites with blissful heat. He touches your forehead and the middle of your brain becomes permanently magnetized. To learn how to train for these abilities read the book "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" trans. by Charles Luk. Chunyi Lin spent a month in full-lotus in a cave with no sleep, no food, no water. He's healed people of rare diseases that the Mayo Clinic has trouble with. One lady didn't want a lung transplant but also didn't believe in any of this stuff yet her son made her go see Chunyi Lin. She was a Mayo Clinic patient and he's healed many others that have had M.S., cancer, paralysis, deafness, etc. He said that once in deep meditation he levitated up 9 feet and another time people saw his physical body on the street even though he was in his house meditating. take care, drew hempel, MA

Edited September 9, 2008 by drew hempel

[rain]

My mother in her mid-80s had two surgeries for a life threatening condition; the first emergency to stop the condition and the second to repair temporary elements from the first. She had thought out her choices and intention long before and had prepared a living will.

 

After recovering from the violent hallucinations induced by the morphine given her after the second surgery, she talked quietly with me and said that she could not continue this medical path, and invoked her living will with absolute, crystal clear intent.

 

Soon she was transferred to a palliative care ward. It was cramped and noisy; restless and uncomfortable for her initially. That evening she manifested many symptoms and several nurses and her doctor attended. My brother and his partner and my wife and I were there. At some point she escalated into severe coughing, mucus, and cramping; sitting up rapidly and falling back repeatedly.

 

My brother and I were on either side of her bed at this point and the nurses and doctor standing by, not having any particular diagnosis or treatment at that moment. My brother and I were each holding an opposite hand and elbow of our mother through this sitting up / falling back in an effort to cushion and stabilize her motion, while talking to her to comforts and elicit her reports of what was the problem /what she needed.

 

Both of us began to feel a great sense of heat/energy/scintillations in our hands, going deeper and deeper and rising in power. With this she relaxed and remained resting for a few moments and the nurses took over again.

 

Astounded at this phenomenon, and having that energy remain pulsating rapidly throughout our hands we when out to the corridor where our partners were watching all this and waiting. We asked them to put their hands out in front of them face up, and then hovered our hands just above theirs without quite touching. They could feel very palpable persistent energy/vibrations/warmth from our hands, after wondering why we asked them to do this. What was that?

 

As she was able to relax after this episode, but not having died then as seemed to be where things were headed that evening, she then slipped any medication out the side of her mouth and never ate or drank again, but agreed to me, my brother or our partners swabbing her mouth with a moisturizing gel. Fortunately she was able to be transferred to a private palliative care suite and lived relaxed, in and out of conscious lucid dream states talking but not in clear words to those in the dreams, and to us simultaneously for several days before going into a sleep/brief-waking/sleep cycles and then into a coma, until after my brother returned from a long-planned trip with his son, of about ten days. The next day with both my brother and I in her room with her, and after days of no movement and coma, she stirred, lifted her head the little she could and worked her desiccated mouth as best she could, determined to articulate what we heard as: "Thank you...", with the attempt at a smile as far as her body could then do that, and left her body then and there.

 

These energies exist. If you aren't open and/or if you intend not to sense them, you likely may not. That does not prove they do not exist. Because they do not fit our model of the electromagnetic spectrum, or tickle our sensing instruments does not mean they do not exist.

 

Although I have sensed and worked with my energies for some time, her emanations that evening took me completely by surprise and were so powerful, at first I did not equate what was happening to anything like chi.

The doctor and nurses showed no interest in discussing it.

 

It is salutary that just as physics thought we were finally approaching the Grand Unified Theory of everything physical/energetic, we found that the Standard Model and related variants only explain about 4% of reality and 96% is labelled Dark Energy and Dark Matter, two categories about which we can currently only begin to speculate.

 

this is a good time to be enfleshed here

 

artform

 

I am due to personal cirumstances utmost grateful to read this. It is pure healing energy.