Jewels in the ashes of masters, adepts, saints etc.

[Patrick Brown]

I've heard stories about this from India but does a similar phenomenon happen around the world? Also do you think it's real and if so what causes the jewels to appear?

 

It's interesting that the story of the 'jewelled ones' appears in Christianity and Buddhism although I've never heard of it in Hinduism.

[Unconditioned]

I've heard stories about this from India but does a similar phenomenon happen around the world? Also do you think it's real and if so what causes the jewels to appear?

 

It's interesting that the story of the 'jewelled ones' appears in Christianity and Buddhism although I've never heard of it in Hinduism.

 

Who sees the Jewels? How can they be seen at all?

[joeblast]

It almost reminds me of 'petrified lightning' I saw at the boston science museum this weekend - it was sand that had become crystallized around the lightning that passed through it

[Taiji Bum]

The Zohar talks about that somewhere. I cant really remember where but I think it has something to do with "Luz" whatever that is. Sorry I dont have a better memory but the Zohar definately talks about it so I bet other kabalistic texts do to.

[Patrick Brown]

Who sees the Jewels? How can they be seen at all?

I think you misunderstand? Small crystal like stones have been reported to have been found in the ashes of masters. Some suggest that they are some kind of kidney stones while others say it's a sign of their, the masters, divine nature.

 

It almost reminds me of 'petrified lightning' I saw at the boston science museum this weekend - it was sand that had become crystallized around the lightning that passed through it

Cool, yeah like chi fusing certain elements within the masters body. Hmm reminds me that the element gold (I think silver as well) is created in super novas and not actually created on earth.

 

The Zohar talks about that somewhere. I cant really remember where but I think it has something to do with "Luz" whatever that is. Sorry I dont have a better memory but the Zohar definately talks about it so I bet other kabalistic texts do to.

Thanks Darin,

I suspect that this kinda thing appears in many sacred texts but is perhaps disguised/hidden somewhat.

Edited August 26, 2008 by Patrick Brown

[Unconditioned]

I think you misunderstand? Small crystal like stones have been reported to have been found in the ashes of masters. Some suggest that they are some kind of kidney stones while others say it's a sign of their, the masters, divine nature.

 

Before I completely derail this topic, my intention was to point towards a bigger question. Why focus on the physical jewels of the masters when we can focus on the jewels of wisdom they're pointing us towards? That was where I was going =)

 

::puts the train back on the tracks::

 

Carry on, no ill intentions meant =)

[shontonga]

Before I completely derail this topic, my intention was to point towards a bigger question. Why focus on the physical jewels of the masters when we can focus on the jewels of wisdom they're pointing us towards? That was where I was going =)

 

::puts the train back on the tracks::

 

Carry on, no ill intentions meant =)

 

 

Actually... I'd have to agree.

afraid i know to much about somethings i'd rather not.

There is actually a big business in melting down your loved ones.

Sorry, don't know a nicer way to put that! LOL

Now you to can ware uncle john on your finger!

Sorry again. bad taste probably.

 

The lightning theory isn't to far off actually.

Good call.

Lightning glass is called fulgurite.

It's made by lightning hitting sand and malting it together.

It's the silica that fuses together.

We are also made up of high silica. (quartz)

but the elements involved are different.

Instead of fire from the skys

the fire is helped along by man.

 

If you were to take volcanic ash

melt it down

you get obsidian.

 

if you take the ashes of us

and melt them down you get the same sort of stuff.

Closer to obsidian than fulgurites.

 

If I wasn't on my lunch break I'd go

into much more gory details for you all!

 

... You can ware yer whole family on your hand!

This is my uncle john, this is aunt Clara and my cat spookie...

 

Have fun kids!

 

Peace

 

Shon

[Taomeow]

They are not kidney stones, and they are not invisible. They are called sharira and have been observed on rare occasions and described as sharp, diamond-hard crystals. Petrified light. I don't know if it's true, but I've read something weird many years ago about a woman in Eastern Europe who baffled doctors because she developed stigmata (these are a well-documented phenomenon that occurred many times -- wounds that appear on the body spontaneously, in ardent Christians replicating the location of the wounds of Christ, in troubled individuals attacked by some possessing entity, etc.) --

this woman would develop wounds on her body as sharp diamond-like crystals would break through the skin, whereupon the skin would heal till the next episode. This happened to her many times. The crystals were collected and studied. They had some weird electrical properties but I forget what exactly it was. The "medical mystery" remained unsolved.

 

Then again, the woman may have been a fraud ISO attention, and masters who leave sharira behind may be simply the followers of the ancient shamanic custom of swallowing small "Herzheimer diamonds" -- quartz crystals of particular clarity that have two sharp ends (I know what they look like because I own a handful). They did it to modulate their energy, or as they put it, to increase their power. Apparently they had the power to keep these inside their stomachs instead of eliminating, and accumulated them over a lifetime. I am very reluctant to swallow mine though, I use them in a rattle for certain ritualistic purposes.

Edited August 26, 2008 by Taomeow

[joeblast]

Cool, yeah like chi fusing certain elements within the masters body. Hmm reminds me that the element gold (I think silver as well) is created in super novas and not actually created on earth.

I've read a lot about stellar physics. Supernovas are required to produce all elements heavier than lead, because that's the point at which fusion consumes more energy than it creates. So from bismuth on up, those elements were all created in supernovae Gold and silver are created in normal stellar fusion, although it does take a sizeable star to fuse those elements.

[froggie]

I've heard stories about this from India but does a similar phenomenon happen around the world? Also do you think it's real and if so what causes the jewels to appear?

 

It's interesting that the story of the 'jewelled ones' appears in Christianity and Buddhism although I've never heard of it in Hinduism.

 

i know of bezoar stones and mustika pearls

 

http://www.google.com/search?hl=nl&q=m...oeken&meta=

 

[Andrei]

Edited August 27, 2008 by steam

[mat black]

It is recorded in the Sutras that sharira are gained through being permeated by the cultivation of precepts, samadhi, and wisdom. They are very rare and serve as supreme fields of blessings. The Sutra of Golden Light says, "Sharira are what is important in the merit and virtue of cultivating the Six Paramitas." Therefore, the appearance of sharira after cremation proves that the cultivator has considerable attainment in precepts, samadhi, and wisdom.

The Venerable Master Hua's sharira (relics after cremation) include teeth sharira. More than four thousand sharira seeds and several hundred sharira clusters have been counted. The sharira are white, light yellow, green, blue, black, and other colors. Some of the sharira which are formed on the bones gleam like green jade; they are particularly rare.

One of the Venerable Master's disciples, moved by the sight of the Master's teeth sharira, said, "In his life, the Venerable Master lectured on the Sutras and spoke Dharma in several tens of thousands of assemblies. No wonder his cremation yielded teeth relics!" Another disciple commented, "The Venerable Master only spoke true and actual words. That's why his teeth have become relics after cremation."

 

 

Source, with pictures: http://www.advite.com/sf/life/life10-9.html

Edited August 27, 2008 by mat black

[shontonga]

They are not kidney stones, and they are not invisible. They are called sharira and have been observed on rare occasions and described as sharp, diamond-hard crystals. Petrified light. I don't know if it's true, but I've read something weird many years ago about a woman in Eastern Europe who baffled doctors because she developed stigmata (these are a well-documented phenomenon that occurred many times -- wounds that appear on the body spontaneously, in ardent Christians replicating the location of the wounds of Christ, in troubled individuals attacked by some possessing entity, etc.) --

this woman would develop wounds on her body as sharp diamond-like crystals would break through the skin, whereupon the skin would heal till the next episode. This happened to her many times. The crystals were collected and studied. They had some weird electrical properties but I forget what exactly it was. The "medical mystery" remained unsolved.

 

Then again, the woman may have been a fraud ISO attention, and masters who leave sharira behind may be simply the followers of the ancient shamanic custom of swallowing small "Herzheimer diamonds" -- quartz crystals of particular clarity that have two sharp ends (I know what they look like because I own a handful). They did it to modulate their energy, or as they put it, to increase their power. Apparently they had the power to keep these inside their stomachs instead of eliminating, and accumulated them over a lifetime. I am very reluctant to swallow mine though, I use them in a rattle for certain ritualistic purposes.

 

cool, Taomeow, thanks.

Had heard of that. With others, too. sometimes the "stones" that come out are black(some folks say they are implants. Who am i to say?), sometimes foggy-clear, or clear. Real? Don't know ... it is interesting. If you've played with some energy stuff, if you've played with some elemental stuff, there isn't that much strange about it, U've seen how things can heat up inside, right? hmm? Even when playing with things that aren't nessacerily "hot" per se, can still see how things crystalize at times?

 

can it happen?

don't know. Have seen rocks inside fish and birds but they swallowed them. Kind of.

 

 

The stones you mentioned are Herkimer Diamonds. My favorite! They come from Herkimer county New York but can be found all over the world! I've one sitting in front of me from Arizona(Prescote, Az?). They come from Tibet. New York (not just herkimer), Ct., China, and the ones from Pakistan look/feel exactly like the N.Y. ones!?! Have heard of them from Switzerland and Ireland, but haven't seen them.Herk's, being quartz, could be swallowed better than real diamonds, not As apt to cut one to shreds inside the same way. (but DON'Ttry it!!!)

 

I found a name for stones made from "loved" ones

There are other names, this was just the first site i found.

Enjoy! Funny as heck if your as warped as me,

made for great conversation at work today!

Thanks!

 

This site refers to them asPhoenix Diamonds !

Like the name. LOL.

 

Gives one a whole new prospective on gettin' "stoned" !

 

LOL.

Edited August 27, 2008 by shontonga

[Dainin]

There has been a collection of these relics touring North America for several years, called the Heart Shrine Relic Tour. It is part of an effort by the FPMT to build a 500 foot bronze buddha statue in India. I went to see it a few years ago at a Chinese Buddhist temple in Ft Lauderdale (International Buddhist Progress Society). First they did a service and chanting. There were both Chan and Tibetan priests present. Then we lined up and one of the lamas would touch an urn containing the relics of the Shakyamuni Buddha to each person's forehead. When this happened to me I felt what I can only describe as an immense surge of happiness and compassion. Then we walked around a large altar/table with relics of many other saints: Milarepa, Marpa, Tsongkapa, etc. The energy emanating from these was tangible, and I felt really good for a few days afterward. It was an unforgetable experience for me. The tour will be continuing through the fall in North America, and one will also be beginning in Europe. If you have a chance to check it out, I would definitely recommend it. Here is the web site: Heart Shrine Relic Tour

 

I think some other religions, including Catholic, venerate the physical remains of saints as well. I don't know if they get the jewel-like relics though.

[林愛偉]

Sharira: Crystalization of the body due to purification of the mind in Buddhist cultivation. It is a very common thing, happens a lot to diligent cultivators, and is a sign that the cultivators were in practice of and expounded proper Buddhist Teachings.

 

In Pure Land cultivation, it is a sign of proper cultivation and re-birth in Amitabha Buddha's Pure Land of Ultimate Bliss. People receive responses in their cultivation through being reborn in the middle of their cultivation

while their body remains standing, sitting or lying. Body remains warm to a degree..soft and flexible, and does not stink after days on leaving it out in the open .

 

More signs of rebirth than this, but they require one to have eyes to see the Triple Jewel; Amitabha Buddha, Guan Yin and Great Strength Bodhisattva actually coming and taking one to the Pure Land.

 

The Sharira are formed when cremation takes place. Unfortunately for skeptics, it is not from the temperature from the heat mixing with the bones and calcium, blah blah blah. Literally from purifying the body from poisons and transforming it to a proper Dharma vessel, the body will crystalize. The Buddha left Sharira, and so did many high level cultivators, both left home and lay.

 

One can find pics on line...google search : Sharira of Xuan Hua Shangren...or www.baidu.com, and type in: Xuan Hua Shangren Sharira then click on the character next to MP3 and then enter. You should get a page of pics, or links that show you pics...

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin

[shontonga]

S

More signs of rebirth than this, but they require one to have eyes to see the Triple Jewel; Amitabha Buddha, Guan Yin and Great Strength Bodhisattva actually coming and taking one to the Pure Land.

 

The Sharira are formed when cremation takes place. Unfortunately for skeptics, it is not from the temperature from the heat mixing with the bones and calcium, blah blah blah.

 

Would be interested in hearing more Lin?

 

Our bodies are mostly xtl. if it comes down to it?

Think of blood, hema=ing iron, Cell salts, bone?

Dust to dust?

...sacks of skin and dirty water.

 

Makes sence if one could clean up that dirty water...

filter it clear ... one might be a shinier crystal?

 

For skeptics, one would need the temps and all to be controlled.

With lots of cremations they are not, or rather,

not as precisely as our computerized ovens they cook us in in the western world.

The tempeture control would follow closer the color of the flame, the coals and all?

Has it been tested, Lin, must have been at some point?

Maybe it says on the sites U listed?

 

The link I threw up there, everything would be VERY controlled to get the right results.

After all, family is wanting grandma to be a diamond,

you don't want to mess up! ... and paying well i imagine!

 

Because of the control of heat/pressure I would guess they aren't really comparable?

 

... dust to dust ...

 

Hope Your doing well in N.Y. Lin!

 

Stay well all!

 

Shon

[林愛偉]

There will be ashes...after all, the body is being burned, but some parts crystalize, turn to Sharira.

 

Its quite simple though. Those who do not cultivate Buddhism in this life get cremated and nothing appears in their ashes. Those who cultivated Buddhism in this life, and did so properly, have a greater percentage of manifesting Sharira in their ashes.

 

Purifying the body is through purification of the mind: of the karma of body, mouth and mind. Thus, the mind reaches higher states, and the body transforms to accommodate.

 

Pure Land cultivation is a "faster" means of cultivating to attain wisdom in this life, and the Sharira is one of the responses of proper cultivation and rebirth in the Pure Land. Some great sages even proclaimed that when they are to be cremated, that if their translation of the sutras was proper, then his tongue would not burn in the fire during cremation..the tongue wasn't burnt. That sage was named Kumarajiva.

 

Some Buddhist cultivators when cremated formed 18 Lo Hans (Arhats) ...some formed monks sitting in meditation... one cultivator formed an image of a Buddha sitting in meditation right in her heart. I have no time to search for these pics, but they are there. Its late for me now, so I am off to rest.

 

To learn more about them in some detail, look up Buddha Speaks Amitabha Sutra, or the signs of being reborn in the Pure Land. Also, the vows of Amitabha Buddha.

 

There should be more info there.

 

Peace,

Lin

[shontonga]

Thanks Lin!

[Patrick Brown]

[Gerard]

Sounds like sci-fi in the West, in the East no one gets surprised. It's part of their cultural legacy. And if you talk to Tibetans about this they would probably yawn, lol!

 

 

Read this:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringsel

http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/blog/holy...ry&eid=9839

http://www.foreigners-in-china.com/buddhism-nirvana.html

 

 

[Patrick Brown]

[joeblast]

Very interesting although there does seem to be some confusion as to how gold is created:

And for those that are interested this interactive version of the periodic table is cool:

http://www.dayah.com/periodic/

 

And lets not forget beauty and awe:

 

hehe...I didnt mean to imply that gold (or the majority of gold, for that matter) wasnt created in supernovae, I was just pointing out that gold can be created in normal stellar fusion

 

nice fractal pic, I love those!

 

 

Lin, is there a difference between cultivating wisdom and cultivating realization?

[林愛偉]

hehe...I didnt mean to imply that gold (or the majority of gold, for that matter) wasnt created in supernovae, I was just pointing out that gold can be created in normal stellar fusion

 

nice fractal pic, I love those!

Lin, is there a difference between cultivating wisdom and cultivating realization?

 

 

What is one realizing...? Cultivating realization is saying that you are practicing methods that will allow your self to realize ... that the world is round... the sky changes colors throughout the day... that different realms have different karmic conditions and the function of mind differs according to those conditions...realizing that all one had to do was just put down the want for attaining, and simply realize that what was to be attained, was always there.

 

Cultivating for wisdom is just the cultivation of putting down false thinking so the realization that inherent knowledge is not dependent upon worldly knowledge. Then, utilizing that knowing to teach others without them causing more afflictions is wisdom...

 

The Wisdom mind is simply that which is not confused any longer. The realized mind is that which is devoid of doubts. Both realization and wisdom only differ by the manner of its application... one can realize that they are indeed Buddhas, but because there is a view of realizing that one is a Buddha, they still have not gained the wisdom to put down the view of Non-Buddha and Buddha....A fine line indeed... A flip of the hand.

 

Peace,

Lin

Edited August 27, 2008 by 林愛偉