Pre-heaven Jing

[exorcist_1699]

Pre-heaven jing always comes together with pre-heaven qi , and encased by it ; similar to our ordinary drive ,it gives us strong feeling of sexual pleasure , but not necessarily concentrated at the area of sexual organ ,likely in a much larger area...Simply speaking , pre-heaven jing is the part in pre-heaven qi where sexual feelings are sensed ; conversely speaking, having it also proves to you that your qi's level has a fundamental upgrade . But how ?

 

Pre-heaven jing can't be aroused by sex drive / "dirty ideas" , but likely rises in a state of mindlessness ( more precisely speaking , a state of " chaos " ); The key is how to arouse sex pleasure without thinking of female's body, pants& stockings..etc , or even without thinking of anything ...

 

Having attained pre-heaven jing also makes you easier to re-fill the loss of ordinary jing (sperm), for example , previously you need 7 days to recover , now only 2-3 days.

 

Many people do not believe in Taoist truth about free of aging /disease . The reason is simple : they never get a taste of the pre-heaven "benefits" . Once they have got it , and found those changes occur in their body , of course, most of their doubts will disappear . In fact, only after having tasted the pre-heaven qi cum jing will people be emancipated from the blind worship of science and technology ( at least in the areas of life science and medicine ) , otherwise, most likely they are half-hearted.

Edited August 28, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[sheng zhen]

Pre-heaven jing can't be aroused by sex drive / "dirty ideas" , but likely in a state of mindlessness ( more precisely speaking , a state of " chaos " ); The key is how to arouse sex pleasure without thinking of female's body, pants& stockings..etc , even without thinking of anything ...

Thats very interesting!

 

But is Jing allways and only connected to sex or is there more to it?

[Patrick Brown]

[Taomeow]

Thats very interesting!

 

But is Jing allways and only connected to sex or is there more to it?

 

It is always connected to everything, but primarily memory -- genetic and cosmic, philogenic and ontogenic. Jing is the know-how of creation, sex is a side effect.

 

By the way, I've never heard of "pre-heavenly jing" -- jing is usually defined as "pre-heavenly qi," or prenatal qi. Earlier Heaven (Xian Tian) is not divisible into jing-qi-shen. Once it "gives birth to three," you have jing-qi-shen. Three begets ten thousand things. If you want to go back, the gate is called "memory." Not "sex." If you want to go back anywhere, you have to remember the road. Taoist concepts are never convoluted -- if they appear so, that part has most probably been superimposed by other traditions. "The way of Heaven is easy and the way of the Earth is simple" -- Ta Chuan. "Return" is return. There's no returning anywhere without remembering how you got somewhere. Jing, in ordinary life, "dissipates" no matter what you do sexually. It dissipates from use and from non-use. Overindulgence breeds exhaustion, while celibacy breeds "dead jing." "The Way is narrow and sharp as a razor blade." Balance yourself on the razor blade and turn around to go back -- that's the technique...

[三江源]

'dead jing'????

 

 

wot is?!

[Patrick Brown]

It dissipates from use and from non-use. Overindulgence breeds exhaustion, while celibacy breeds "dead jing." "The Way is narrow and sharp as a razor blade." Balance yourself on the razor blade and turn around to go back -- that's the technique...

True love doth flow.

[宁]

Hello Exorcist, hello lady TM,

 

i think girls have a different understanding on jing, due to the different resources that they have.

for them the issue isnt saving jing, is how to get it to move, and not remain stuck, thus "dead jing"... the yin tends to contract it.

 

pre-heaven jing is the mother-bank of jing, the unmanifested jing.

the only way ordinary man gets acces to it is by the morning erection, that doesnt have a purpose.

 

how do you practice the returning to pre-heaven state?

regarding jing?

regarding qi?

regarding shen?

 

how?

[exorcist_1699]

 

By the way, I've never heard of "pre-heavenly jing" -- jing is usually defined as "pre-heavenly qi," or prenatal qi. Earlier Heaven (Xian Tian) is not divisible into jing-qi-shen. Once it "gives birth to three," you have jing-qi-shen. Three begets ten thousand things.

 

Most of what Taomeow said are correct. In pre-heavenly state , jing ,qi, and shen are united , not separated .

 

In fact, the most common used term is meta-jing (元精) because pre-heavenly qi can exist outside human body or before the emergence of living things while pre-heavenly jing can only be found in human/living things.

 

However, in order to explain the difference and because there is really some sort of sex pleasure when pre-heaven qi is aroused, I adopt the term: " pre-heabenly jing" . Another important consideration is that the quality of this jing really determines the level and power of pre-heavenly qi . And, high level pe-heavenly qi can cure most diseases ( besides lunatic ones) .

 

Pre-heavenly state , simply speaking , is a sudden awakening from "chaos" ; For example , our planet was once in a state of chaos, and, at some moment in past history, consciousness abruptly arise... you can say that the earth awakens "suddenly " ..

 

To most people ,such awakening seems difficult to attain , this is the reason why studying Zen Buddhist writings is always helpful . They tell you many , many different methods that I think not necessary to repeat here .

Edited August 29, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[宁]

There are traditions that belive, and act upon beliving that pre-heaven jing can be restored.

And there are traditions that dont.

Maybe it all depends on the practices developed, and their purpose. For some it's vital, for some it isnt.

I just wanted another perspective on it, that's all.

Thanks Exorcist

[exorcist_1699]

It really depends on what you want to accomplish. Please be reminded that all those methods talking about postures , ways of breathing....although seems easy to follow , can only be used as a start for curing minor disease, or making you have a healthier body .

 

However, if you want to accomplish something great , then the process of " drilling" into chaos/emptinessis is unavoidable ...maybe at initial stage boring , but later it will give you great pleasure , both physical and spiritually; So, ironically , the most boring activity in this world turns out to be giving you the most wonderful feelings.

 

Choosing a teacher to listen is also important .

 

Consider a master who already has reached the stage of absorbing pre-heavenly qi into his body, then it implies he does not need to eat, drink , sleep ,or even breathe for weeks , what purpose he asks for a big amount of money ?

Edited August 29, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[宁]

Why do they ask for money?

 

I don't know, I'm not the Chinese expert here... But they seem to like Money as much as they like Qi, primordial or not. It's like someone said, whoever said the Chinese are spiritual, they are a liar - in the sense that they are really practical people. Compared to them, Russians are candid... more idealistic... just look at their writers. I have a Russian grandfather, so I'm not that far from it.

We also must keep in mind that the masters themselves are just the tip of the iceberg of a larger organisation, the school has many levels and there are many more obligations that go with it.

I wonder if this isn't really the cause for the lack of tangible spiritual experience in the West: maybe the missing piece is the social organisation part, the Confucian part of the practice... which the Chinese think to be also part of the Great Dao...

 

Am I right or am I right? kiddin'

 

EDIT: We should also keep in mind that not everybody is chasing immortality... Most of us just need the balance that the tao practices can give, nothing more, since their life is full and complete. They just need a little adjustment, it's not like everybody is trying to escape this "cruel world"...

Edited August 29, 2008 by Little1

[exorcist_1699]

Why do they ask for money?

 

I don't know, I'm not the Chinese expert here... But they seem to like Money as much as they like Qi, primordial or not. It's like someone said, whoever said the Chinese are spiritual, they are a liar - in the sense that they are really practical people. Compared to them, Russians are candid... more idealistic... just look at their writers. I have a Russian grandfather, so I'm not that far from it.

We also must keep in mind that the masters themselves are just the tip of the iceberg of a larger organization, the school has many levels and there are many more obligations that go with it.

 

 

Chinese are practical people , most of them adopt qi mainly for healing purposes , not for immortality ( in TCM writings and clinical records , you have millions of sentences talking about qi , but most are mentioned in medical context ).

 

Russian writers is my favorite ,especially Tolstoy's . I like one of his books which talks about the process of death of a judge ( I forget the book's name ) .Tolstoy has deep insight about death... Strangely , the West does not have solution for death, I wonder why?

 

Real master does not rely on any organization , only guys who need to eat and a place to live succumbing to the provisions/ accommodation from a big organization .

Edited August 29, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[宁]

Chinese are practical guys , most of them adopt qi mainly for healing purposes , not for immortality ( in TCM writings and clinical records , you have millions of sentences talking about qi , but most are mentioned in medical framework ).

 

Russian writers is my favorite ,especially Tolstoy's . I like one of his books which talks about the process of death of a judge ( I forget the book's name ) .Tolstoy has deep insight about death... Strangely , the West does not have solution for death, I wonder why?

 

Real master does not rely on any organization , only guys who need to eat and a place to live succumbing to the provisions/ accommodation from a big organization .

 

Hi there,

 

I didn't mean that they rely on it, they are part of it.

No part of common or hidden knowledge is or ever was in the hands of only one man, apart from others, figuring his way out to immortality or enlightenment. Everytime we talk about an ancient organisation with branches that extend thru the history. Some of them become extinct, some of them continue to function...

The reason and the mobile for their perpetual existance is that they think of themselves as guardians of ancient secrets... keepers.

And of course they take their mission very seriously, as the organisation itself does not imply only physical members, there are also non-physical ones, and a complex and difficult to explain link with the Heavens...

The spiritual historical figures we know about were all part of them. Many of the guys out there that we consider top of the class would be the mediocre outside link of the school.

Mind me, I try not to delude myself thinking that the spirit world is a pure and secure place. It's as clean or dirty as this world we are living in. Power issues, sexual scandals, you name it.

God there seems to allow it all, as it all falls pray to it's own consequences.

Often masters sustain organisations, not rely on them, or sometimes are just members with significant but not absolute power. Why do they do it? I don't know, from what I've gathered up until now, this seems to be the way things work....

And looking in the "pure" Nature, you find the exact same things...

 

I would be glad to be wrong on it, though

 

one more thing, i read the post on Stripping the Gurus - about the sexual scandals -

I have a GREAT respect for the Social Matrix we are living in, married-with-children-job-and-friends seems to be a much more balanced way of life than most of the spiritual stuff out there...

 

and a question:

 

if we consider the above as facts, what chanse do you think has a loner?

[dao zhen]

[exorcist_1699]

It is great to hear from Dao Zhen again.

 

As he pointed out , forgetting is one of the good methods:

 

Forgetting your body so as to nourish qi , forgetting qi so as to nourish shen (Spirit) ;

 

 

However, many people are afraid of adopting it for they are frightened by the feeling of losing control of their body/mind , falling into some kind of bottomless hole/ voidness .... , the fact is , without approaching near-death experience , there is no way for gaining re-birth . Sex, death are things always accompany our cultivation...

 

Needless to say , the mentioned sex pleasure when pre-heavenly qi rises should not make you attach to it ; I think, such kind of danger /inclination has already been pointed out by other post under this topic .

Edited August 29, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[Taomeow]

'dead jing'????

wot is?!

Jing mediates basic survival drives -- self-preservation, self-replication (reproduction), and behaviors that facilitate intactness/continuation of self (children) and avoid damage/destruction/cessation of a life line. When someone or something (conditioning, ideation, abuse) override these primal drives, the only way to do it is by deadening them, killing them off. Dead jing is what one accumulates when he or she was not allowed to, or "chose" (via early conditioning -- early enough to leave one with the illusion of free choice and "free will") not to respond to natural impulses of self-expression. By adulthood few of a "civilized" person's impulses and drives are "natural," and all manner of ways in which they get thwarted is the outcome of every impulse having to navigate around, and get entangled in, large blocks of dead jing. I think "dead jing" is the closest Chinese term to "repressed unconscious pain," and some of it is visible to geneticists as what they like to call "junk DNA" because they can't think of a use for it. The use for it would have emerged if the blocking mechanisms weren't set off. Tao makes no junk!

 

Of course misguided celibacy, non-reproduction, non-breastfeeding, etc., all result in dead jing. Catholic nuns have the rate of breast cancer ten times that of the general population. On the other hand, prostitutes have ten times the rate of cervical cancer. Sexually, one can kill jing by avoiding sex -- OR by having sex without love. Take your pick... not.

Edited August 30, 2008 by Taomeow

[exorcist_1699]

 

Of course misguided celibacy, non-reproduction, non-breastfeeding, etc., all result in dead jing. Catholic nuns have the rate of breast cancer ten times that of the general population. On the other hand, prostitutes have ten times the rate of cervical cancer. Sexually, one can kill jing by avoiding sex -- OR by having sex without love. Take your pick... not.

 

Sex drive is the most creative force of human beings, it should never be repressed , but sublimated . Too much sex activities or repression of it both can lead to diseases .

 

The essence of Taoist creation is : Originally it is another new life you create outside by emission of jing , now , you refine it into qi , and , try to create an everlasting copy of yourself ( by Buddhist way : purely spiritual ; by Taoist , can be both spiritual and physical ) at a higher level inside ; Don't forget that some living things are hermaphroditism; The stuff needed always there. Even if there is no female , nature will create one ( Remember what a movie called "Jurassic Park " mention : people try to create mono sex Dinosaurs in the wild so as to prevent their reproduction , but in the end fail....) .

 

First, you let the Yin and Yang in your body have intercourse, then relying on its result ,inviting the pre-heavenly qi coming in ...

Edited August 30, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[Patrick Brown]

Of course misguided celibacy, non-reproduction, non-breastfeeding, etc., all result in dead jing. Catholic nuns have the rate of breast cancer ten times that of the general population. On the other hand, prostitutes have ten times the rate of cervical cancer. Sexually, one can kill jing by avoiding sex -- OR by having sex without love. Take your pick... not.

I always find these bits of information valuable. Thank you.

 

Sex drive is the most creative force of human beings, it should never be repressed , but sublimated . Too much sex activities or repression of it both can lead to diseases .

 

The essence of Taoist creation is : Originally it is another new life you create outside by emission of jing , now , you refine it into qi , and , try to create an everlasting copy of yourself ( by Buddhist way : purely spiritual ; by Taoist , can be both spiritual and physical ) at a higher level inside ; Don't forget that some living things are hermaphroditism; The stuff needed always there. Even if there is no female , nature will create one ( Remember what a movie called "Jurassic Park " mention : people try to create mono sex Dinosaurs in the wild so as to prevent their reproduction , but in the end fail....) .

 

First, you let the Yin and Yang in your body have intercourse, then relying on its result ,inviting the pre-heavenly qi coming in ...

I have heard stories of Tibetan Masters (enlightened ones) that live in the Himalayas. These masters are said to live for hundreds of years and some even have families. I don't think enlightenment means an end to sexual reproduction but natural childbirth, at least as far as I'm aware, is pretty dangerous for women. When we have evolved our physical bodies, in future rounds, I think we will return to an hermaphrodite state. Not quite sure exactly how it works but I think the appendix has something to do with egg formation. The egg is passed through the large intestine and rectum and then kept warm in a pouch which was once the vagina of the female (sacred kangaroo of the Aborigines perhaps). Internal sex organs will shift and fuse in a different way to what is currently seen as the norm.

 

Of course such scenarios can only be extrapolated from past events together with our current understanding and insight. We have been given clues in the form of imagery and allegory such as Easter eggs and angels having wings, the anatomy of birds is interesting. The fall of the angel can be seen as the undifferentiated becoming the differentiated although this is not a negative but rather an eternal process of perfecting. All things are cyclical as there is a season for all things which is why it's so important to flow and move with what's natural.

 

The process of evolving an hermaphrodite vehicle is currently being quickened by global oestrogen pollution. If we bypass the 'stereo types' that the machinery of buSINess perpetuates we can all see that modern men are becoming more feminine as women become more empowered. This process of transition is often seen as the 'mother-son' and 'farther-daughter' cycles but I think it's safer to drop the duality and call the eternal transition the 'mother-farther' cycle of being coming from non-being.

[三江源]

TaoMeow... thankyou.

I think "dead jing" is the closest Chinese term to "repressed unconscious pain,

 

I understand now.

 

 

How on earth do you know so much?!!!!

 

respect to you.

 

xxx

[宁]

Sex drive is the most creative force of human beings, it should never be repressed , but sublimated . Too much sex activities or repression of it both can lead to diseases .

 

The essence of Taoist creation is : Originally it is another new life you create outside by emission of jing , now , you refine it into qi , and , try to create an everlasting copy of yourself ( by Buddhist way : purely spiritual ; by Taoist , can be both spiritual and physical ) at a higher level inside ; Don't forget that some living things are hermaphroditism; The stuff needed always there. Even if there is no female , nature will create one ( Remember what a movie called "Jurassic Park " mention : people try to create mono sex Dinosaurs in the wild so as to prevent their reproduction , but in the end fail....) .

 

First, you let the Yin and Yang in your body have intercourse, then relying on its result ,inviting the pre-heavenly qi coming in ...

 

 

it seems we have a simmilar understanding on this

 

i also like lady TM's effort to distract us from a too material view on jing

 

and thanks DZ - there's such a breeze of mountains and pines and caves coming out of your message

 

Thanks all

 

L1

[Upfromtheashes]

Jing mediates basic survival drives -- self-preservation, self-replication (reproduction), and behaviors that facilitate intactness/continuation of self (children) and avoid damage/destruction/cessation of a life line. When someone or something (conditioning, ideation, abuse) override these primal drives, the only way to do it is by deadening them, killing them off. Dead jing is what one accumulates when he or she was not allowed to, or "chose" (via early conditioning -- early enough to leave one with the illusion of free choice and "free will") not to respond to natural impulses of self-expression. By adulthood few of a "civilized" person's impulses and drives are "natural," and all manner of ways in which they get thwarted is the outcome of every impulse having to navigate around, and get entangled in, large blocks of dead jing. I think "dead jing" is the closest Chinese term to "repressed unconscious pain," and some of it is visible to geneticists as what they like to call "junk DNA" because they can't think of a use for it. The use for it would have emerged if the blocking mechanisms weren't set off. Tao makes no junk!

 

Of course misguided celibacy, non-reproduction, non-breastfeeding, etc., all result in dead jing. Catholic nuns have the rate of breast cancer ten times that of the general population. On the other hand, prostitutes have ten times the rate of cervical cancer. Sexually, one can kill jing by avoiding sex -- OR by having sex without love. Take your pick... not.

 

Heya Taomeow

Cool post and cool name -

Do you know of a method to clear this dead jing?

Thanks

[exorcist_1699]

The inportance of jing is unquestionable . However I would say dead / dried jing ,besides happening in celibacy , likely happens in old and sick people , ie, there are both spiritual and physical reasons.

 

Dried or dead jing also makes the qi you initiate dull ,feeble and not delicate enough to cure some severe diseases or prevent aging , because of this, most people view that the fundamental claims of Taoist cultivation ,not necessarily fictitious , but just exaggerated.

 

If jing can enable you produce another life, even several new lives at a stroke outside , why not making you free of aging inside ?

 

People may argue, we make life outside becuase there is another female/male's help , but , how about....

Edited August 31, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[Patrick Brown]

People may argue, we make life outside becuase there is another female/male's help , but , how about....

[exorcist_1699]

As yin and yang already exist in any individual , despit her/his sex , the stuff for returning to the pre-heavenly state is already there , what is lack of is the method how. ( This is the standpoint of Taoist Single Culivation , which I follow).

 

On the contrary ,the standpoint of Taoist Dual Cultivation is : Our present status is the degeneration of the Pre-heavenly state , split and embodied in male and female bodies , any return must be using other sex's body . Better to be done in between married couples.

Edited September 1, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[Patrick Brown]