Stripping the Gurus

[bindo]

 

I can't prove one way or another just how much of what this guy says is true though I suspect much of it is. If this is so then what he's saying isn't "a bunch of crap" nor is he "clueless" as some here have suggested.

 

 

If anything I applaud this guy for having the courage to step forward and do what few would dare,

 

 

no, actually it is pure crap.

[doc benway]

Some gurus are truly awake, others are simply opportunists.

All of them remain human and imperfect and subject to weaknesses as dictated by their physiology and conditioning. The more awakened one is, the less conditioning affects behavior yet it is not completely absent until death.

 

Gurus are good for showing you a door and pointing out your delusions. There is no need for them to be perfect to do that. You must open the door and live on the other side. You must let them go just like all of the other illusions. Attachment to a guru, ANY GURU, is missing the point entirely. It is just as bad as any other attachment or addiction. You must ultimately stand on your own two feet and be.

 

The perfect person is a construction of the mind. The only perfect people are those who we read about in stories handed down for 2,000 years. Only corpses are perfect, the living have flaws.

[Wanderer]

a lot of it in fact is, BS

 

Yeah, based on what???

 

If you're going to make bold statements like that then please have the courtesy to back up your stuff. Tell us WHY you feel this way, or HOW you came to your conclusions, or WHAT sources you're drawing from that paint a different picture than the one presented. Don't just throw out a comment and walk away thinking you've proved your point.

 

The fact is, I'm already aware of some of the gurus he mentions in his article, so it isn't news to me. I've heard or read stories over the years that say precisely what Falk is saying, so it ain't exactly original. Probably many gurus have had allegations made against them at one time or another, I guess that's the nature of the beast. I read Falk's bibliography so it appears that there is a lot of documentation to back up his claims. It isn't all heresay, though some here might choose to believe otherwise.

 

Finally, it isn't my intention to tread on people's toes. I'm not trying to disparage ALL gurus, spiritual teachers and the like, that would be foolish. But I think it's important to acknowledge what another person says, regardless of how painful, if there is a measure of truth to what they're saying. After that, what you choose to believe (or disbelieve) is YOUR business, and personally I don't care one way or the other what conclusions you guys come to.

 

But for the sake of discussion please don't say "it's BS", "it's careless", "it's pure crap," etc, etc, etc without filling in the blanks as to how and why you came to your conlcusion(s) otherwise your comments just sound vacuous.

Edited August 30, 2008 by Wanderer

[Sahaj Nath]

Some gurus are truly awake, others are simply opportunists.

All of them remain human and imperfect and subject to weaknesses as dictated by their physiology and conditioning. The more awakened one is, the less conditioning affects behavior yet it is not completely absent until death.

 

Gurus are good for showing you a door and pointing out your delusions. There is no need for them to be perfect to do that. You must open the door and live on the other side. You must let them go just like all of the other illusions. Attachment to a guru, ANY GURU, is missing the point entirely. It is just as bad as any other attachment or addiction. You must ultimately stand on your own two feet and be.

 

The perfect person is a construction of the mind. The only perfect people are those who we read about in stories handed down for 2,000 years. Only corpses are perfect, the living have flaws.

 

 

so true, so true.

 

 

and i feel that a qualitative discussion about the nature of the teacher-student relationship would be far more beneficial than a dubious rap sheet of transgressions. not absolutely, but generally speaking.

 

 

two books (both by Mariana Caplan) that have been helpful to me with regard to this subject are

 

Halfway Up the Mountain:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Halfway-Up-Mountain-...7310&sr=8-1

 

and

 

Do You Need a Guru?

 

http://www.amazon.com/You-Need-Guru-Unders.../ref=pd_sim_b_9

 

 

i make all of my students read these two books prior to swearing total allegiance to me and forfeiting all of their material possessions.

[林愛偉]

I'm personally a bit suspicious of this guru:

 

 

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HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

That was WONDERFUL!

[SiliconValley]

I'm already aware

 

 

 

Good luck brother!!

Edited August 30, 2008 by SiliconValley

[daoian]

too few gurus are worth stripping, imo.

Good and Evil / Right and Wrong / these are all dominantly Christian concepts. You have to remember that these Yogis and Gurus... are ummm...

 

NOT CHRISTIANS!

 

If you judge them according to your commandments, you've already broken yourself, "Judge ye not..."

[seadog]

HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

That was WONDERFUL!

 

Alright were do I sign up.

To know is good.

To do is God.

I've just thought of another one.

SHIT

Sudden

Heightened

Intuitve

Training.

[林愛偉]

Alright were do I sign up.

To know is good.

To do is God.

I've just thought of another one.

SHIT

Sudden

Heightened

Intuitve

Training.

 

 

Don't forget... "TM"

 

[Patrick Brown]

Don't forget... "TM"

 

That was real class.

 

[daoian]

To place our whole trust in another human being is stupid, and to allow another human being to place their whole trust in us is cruel and dishonest.

 

Yeah. The moment you TRUST another person... you become lazy and disengage your own critical thinking. This is how herd mentality develops. Heck, in a herd, you dont even have to trust a single leader... you just trust the mindless masses.

 

But trusting in one individual is what makes religions happen. Funny isnt it? Jesus was not a christian and none of the Buddhas were buddhists.

 

But it sure is easier to trust the opinions of others and just do as you are told. - Tao of least resistance =)

Edited August 31, 2008 by daoian

[SFJane]

Yeah. The moment you TRUST another person... you become lazy and disengage your own critical thinking. This is how herd mentality develops. Heck, in a herd, you dont even have to trust a single leader... you just trust the mindless masses.

 

But trusting in one individual is what makes religions happen. Funny isnt it? Jesus was not a christian and none of the Buddhas were buddhists.

 

But it sure is easier to trust the opinions of others and just do as you are told. - Tao of least resistance =)

 

 

speaking of stripping the gurus, unless I am mistaken, you daoian are bob kim.

[daoian]

speaking of stripping the gurus, unless I am mistaken, you daoian are bob kim.

And you SFJane, are adorable!

[Magitek]

I tell you what gurus remind me of:

 

That weedy little "See me. Feeeeeeeeel me" voice from Tommy, The Who (movies trash, but the musics ok)

 

Ha!

 

Stripping the gurus is kind of interesting, I'd love to see one on Tolle . U G Krishnamurti is your man if you want a real insider though.....

 

 

 

Oh, and that BBC Sai Baba documentry, interviewing that boy he made perform sexual favours for him. It used to be on torrents, probs on youtube now.

 

Anyway, the New Agers consider this guy an ascended master. Check out IAMUNIVERSITY for instance.

 

 

Love and Peace Haha, just kidding.

[Meson]

[Birch]

The "e-book" "Stripping the Gurus" is a good read. AND probably a good idea to look at where the author is coming from as he wrote it. Bottom line is that it's rarely "all or nothing", "black or white" - except sometimes we have all decided it is...

 

Anyway, if you are interested in protecting yourself and others as you go about "spiritual" pursuits then other texts about critical thinking skills are must reads IMO (a bunch of them are available online)

 

I find critical thinking VERY hard but definitely worth the effort.

 

Worth the effort!

[Zhuo Ming-Dao]

Wow, that e-book was at the academic level of of those "The dollar bill was made by space aliens!" books. His scholarship was very poor as he pulled liberally from many biased and often twisted the material to make it say what he wanted it to say to make his point. When he was attacking a single person, it was mostly libel, but when he attempted to attack a whole religion... it was just kind of sad.

 

I was particularly astounded at how he decided to attack the entire Zen Buddhist historical tradition. His proof that all Zen Buddhism is corrupt? Some young monks in the past have slipped out to party and stuff. And the kosaku stick is EEEVVVIIILLL. It kills people. A guy I read heard from a friend who was told once about someone who died. And, and, and..homosexuality in the 1800s! Oh, and someone said that they are the Buddha!1!! *cough* Buddha Nature *cough*

 

The whole piece showed a complete lack of historical, cultural, academic, philosophical, Buddhist, etc. understanding from the writer. And by the way, the kosaku stick is intended for striking the back of a monk who has been doing a long bout of seated meditation and needs some relief. I have received kosaku in the US and in Japan, and it feels good after a few hours of sitting. If it is ever abused by some monk somewhere, somewhen, this is an aberration not an epidemic problem.

 

There were some very valid points throughout the book, but how could one accept anything he has to say when all of it is presented in such a smarmy, sarcastic tone and when the whole thing is so clearly filled with bad scholarship and deliberate exaggeration and misquotation.

 

His main point is very true (even if he makes the point poorly). The human condition is such that we desire our teachers to be perfect and we expect perfection from a religion's disciples. This, of course, is an unrealistic expectation.

And as my own point of extrapolation: When you have a hierarchical institution (which may be the best way around to help the greatest number of people) designed around seeking spiritual enlightenment and non-duality, you are just asking for trouble. Any human institution, since it inevitably involves some form of power, is susceptible to corruption.

Edited July 21, 2009 by Zhuo Ming-Dao

[Zhuo Ming-Dao]

I was also rather upset at his treatment of Yogi Bhajan. His whole argument is founded primarily around a a couple of claims of sex and misogyny, but one of my very close female friends studied yoga and reflexology for over twenty years with Yogi Bhajan and his wife (before his death) in Espanola, New Mexico (which was where they lived...not California as the writer claims). She never saw anything like what the writer claimed in his expose and only had wonderful things to say about Yogi Bhajan's teachings and personal character.

[Vajrahridaya]

I was also rather upset at his treatment of Yogi Bhajan. His whole argument is founded primarily around a a couple of claims of sex and misogyny, but one of my very close female friends studied yoga and reflexology for over twenty years with Yogi Bhajan and his wife (before his death) in Espanola, New Mexico (which was where they lived...not California as the writer claims). She never saw anything like what the writer claimed in his expose and only had wonderful things to say about Yogi Bhajan's teachings and personal character.

 

Yes, I have a friend who was Yogi Bhajans personal servant for many years. As in errand boy. These claims are false. So many claims about so many Guru's, including Swami Muktananda... false. We'll some of them, it's true he had sex, but it was within the context of Kashmir Shaivism Kaula practice. It's totally fine. He wasn't some predator though.