Dealing w/ Death

[thelerner]

Death, its in the news, in the air, on our minds lately. I was reading a recent posting from Yoda. Let me quote it

 

'People are upside down re: death. They think it is bad and embarrassing. The truth is that the death transition is the funnest thing anyone will ever experience... going from a very intense point of focus through the body to a much more cosmic perspective is just plain fun.

 

Keep in mind when the Buddha got foodpoisoning or Krishna got shot with an arrow, they thanked the perpetrators for helping make for a speedy transition. They "forgave" the perpetrators but also explained that no forgiveness really was called for, given that it is the return to our original home.

 

Yoda said it in the last movie and he was dead on. All this paranoia inspires further negativity.

 

Did you read in Discover Magazine, that people who have near death experiences are happier and their brainwave functioning is significantly altered? (a depressed person takes 60 minutes to reach REM sleep, a normal person takes 90 minutes, and a "refreshed" soul takes 110minutes on average--much happier and never again fearful of death. To them it's funny to see people speaking negatively on the subject or being fearful.)

 

Most significantly, heavy duty mourning prepaves more difficult transitions for anybody who transmits mournfulness--people are effectively inviting more difficult transitions into their own experience by transmitting such vibrations'

 

Interesting perspective. Worthwhile, but probably dangerous to give someone who's currently in mourning.

 

Who do we cry and mourn for? Our loss or the corpses? Hmmnn.

 

I've always admired the concept of an Irish funeral. A happy drunken party as a send off. Isn't that closer to what we want.

 

There are amazingly parallel lines between the Jewish Orthodox view of what happens to the person after death and Tibetan thoughts. Both have a bewildered soul panicked and off balance after death. Hanging around for a few days. So a person is always w/ the body.

 

I was at Tao Mountain when Ron Diana died. There was a nice meditation session for him. I was also at the Sivananda Yoga Ashram when the head of the sect came to visit. He had recently had a severe stroke. He was paralyzed and could barely speak. I'd like to report there was a happy light coming from his eyes, but they seemed pained and clouded.

 

I think RJ said or requoted, "So, how will that help when you no longer have a body?" Beyond the feel good stuff. That is a question we might have to answer.

 

In the Healing Tao Fusion practices, work is done to define the energy body, ie 8 major channels. Get the Shen organized.

 

To what extent does a cohesive energy body, dream practice, death practice Powa really prepare us for the great unknown. Should we worry? Or is the great unknown what happens to us every day?

 

Peace

 

 

Michael

[sunshine]

Yes. Death is everywhere. The father of a friend of mine will soon die because of cancer. The father of a friend of hers will die because of prostate cancer... etc. etc. etc.

 

For people that prepare themselves like Ron did that might not be a problem. Their transition might be smooth and death might mean bliss. What with all the others???

 

These are souls getting circled back (o.k. this is a believe)... and maybe arriving at a darker spot than before.

 

It is a simple human trait to fear what they don't know... who knows what will come after?

 

And some just enjoy this life so much...

 

and then think about the kind of death. In most instances the death itself is only a major problem to those that are left behind... for the one dying it is the way to death that matters... is it full of pain, grief... whatever... from the point of view of the soul I think several teachers out there will telll that a shock-death (like being hit by a car from out of nowhere) might leave the soul wondering around in some in between planes not finding a way home...

 

so...

 

Harry

[MatthewQi]

Good discussion.

 

Inner Alchemy can be viewed as learning how to die while you are still alive.

 

Enlightenment can be realized at death or while alive. For those with near-death-experiences (in general) are no longer afraid for the same reason that the sage is not afraid. The sage integrates individual consciouness with the Universal while living. In a near-death-experience, it is generally just a glimpse but it is enough to change one for life.

 

Many of my own spiritual experiences are have been pretty much the same as reported by those who have had near death experiencesbut there is always more.

 

Yes it is bliss in one aspect Harry and also you are right that most people fear it, yet it is the one thing that is inevitable once one is born.

 

Inner Peace,

 

Matt

[Yoda]

"Worthwhile, but probably dangerous to give someone who's currently in mourning."

 

The truth needs to get out of the hat. Their mourning is just messin' with their own transition. Obviously, I didn't post my thoughts on HT or anything agressive like that--just for the bumz.

 

Ron Diana is partying on. Relax into his photo and you can see it.

 

It doesn't take any training to attain immortal status either--the non-phys is our home turf. We are immortal whether or not we practice.

 

Not edgy like the Tibetan version either. Fear has clouded many a pure vision. The part they had right is that we are six times smarter after we transition... That was well said.

 

People on the edge between the two worlds whether just born, dying, etc aren't in perfect comfort. My two kids weren't completely comfortable in their bodies until about 4 months or so. People in comas have usually relocated by then, so no big deal. Being born is much harder and challenging than dying, by a longshot.

 

Regardless, everything is cool when the transition is finalized. Challenging births and circumstances are like choosing a skilled tennis partner--you learn more.

 

-Yoda

[MatthewQi]

"Worthwhile, but probably dangerous to give someone who's currently in mourning."

 

The truth needs to get out of the hat. Their mourning is just messin' with their own transition. Obviously, I didn't post my thoughts on HT or anything agressive like that--just for the bumz.

 

Ron Diana is partying on. Relax into his photo and you can see it."

 

Yodster, good points. I agree, a bit of tact is good measure. People will come to their own understanding in their own time.

 

It is truly unfortunate that 99.999% of people look at death as negative. Ron, from what Michael posted, said point blank not to be sad. When one has died while still alive, one drops the need to cling to the temporal world and has found Tao. From my understanding Ron had found that This is why in Chang Tzu (if I recall correctly) the two dudes are dancing for joy unmoved by the news of their friends death.

 

I watched my mother die over a 5 year battle with ovarian cancer so anyone who wants to tell me I am insensitive to this topic, please save your breath. I am coming from a deeper understanding which was put into motion after my mother died. I am sensitive to people who go through this with a loved one and take the time to be there for people. Not doing anything but being if necessary, but not afraid to get into a deep discussion if the person wants to talk. Before my experience with my mom though, whenever someone talked about a loved one dying, I just froze and tried to get away from them as quickly as possible. Without even realizing it, it was my own mortality that I had not come to grips with. Fortunately now I can only say that there is SO much more and death need not be feared.

 

Yet, I can ball my eyes out with the best of em but the longing that is felt, well the longing is the only longing that their truly is (yet it is disguised and disassociated in the human experience) and we will all find it eventually (no matter if what the tibetans say about it is true or not ).

 

Inner Peace,

 

Matt

[thelerner]

This is a good discussion.

 

Knowing me, I'm probably postponing and procrastinating enlightenment until, oh just before death.

 

I hope that Yodster is right. We, the human race, deserve at least that. This incarnation stuff has its high points, but only if you look high and to the right, else where there is darkness and echoes of darkness.

 

Societies Taboos strip death, our deaths, of the pomp and circumstance and holiness that it deserves.

 

Peace

 

Michael

[Yoda]

I hope I'm right too!!

 

All's well that ends well... so it's kinda important to have as cheery of a view as you can stomach.

 

I used to disbelieve in any kind of afterlife--death was a nebulous downer, and the act of dying sucked.

 

Then I believed in karma and reincarnation from the Tibetan Buddhist perspective. I was relieved that I didn't disapear, but all the bone crushing suffering of all sentient beings was a serious downer. Overall, I couldn't deal with it and it was worse than not having any afterlife.

 

I'm not into the taoist thing where you have to earn immortality--that would provoke fear in an average attainment kind of a guy like me.

 

Then I drifted to the new age camp, of the channelled variety. The only "proof" I have is that my sources are more accurate regarding day to day causality than the scientists, Buddhists, etc. have been for me. I figuring that non-physical entities also have a better perspective on disembodied life than human-based seers who can only visit part time with imperfect recall upon their return, as the two realms are very differently focused. But I've not had any near death experiences or conscious trance channelling myself or anything direct like that.

 

-Yoda

[GrandTrinity]

EVERYBODY CHILL, WE ARE ALL ALREADY DEAD

[Yoda]

Tenga Rinpoche was asked what the difference was between life and death. The reply: "There's no difference."

 

I've always liked that response.

 

-Yoda

[MatthewQi]

The Tibetan paradigm of rebirthing and verifying the rebirthing of spiritual masters is none the less than very interesting. For some odd reason though, I do not find a common experience personally or any similar references in other cultures / spitiritual traditions. Except perhaps in a reference to the white cloud of bliss that everything returns to and then it rebirths, however, this is different than the tibetan paradigm for the regular dude who misses enlightenment at death and thus reincarnates.

 

Quite honestly, I totally disagree with the fixation on rebirth, karma, AND that there is no difference between life and death. Well except at a primordial level of course regarding no difference between life and death.

 

We are spiritual beings having a human experience perhaps is more valid in my opinion.

 

Inner Peace,

 

Matt

[RON JEREMY]

LOOK DEATH BE VERY REAL, DA PERSONNALITY WILL FRAGMENT INTO A 100 PIECCES N DISOLVE UNLESS ONE HAVE PRACTICED TAO YOGA IN SUM FORM OR ANNOTHER DURIN DA LIFETIME, OR UNLESS ONE BE ABLE TO EVVOKKE DA CLEAR LIGHT AT DEATH TIME EITHER THRU DEATH ON DA BATTLEFIELD OR THROU DEATH IN A STATE O MEDDITATION OR PRAYER. FOR DA REST, DA PERSONNALITY BE SMASHED INTO PIECES N EVETUALLY EACH PIECE WILL GO BACK TO DA ORRIGINAL ELLEMENT TI WAS CUMMIN FROM. IN THIS SENSE, REINCARNATION BE A BUL-SHIT CUMCET THAT ONLY POLESMOKERZ KLIKE SPYRROLEX N SHIEKKY CAN BELLEIVE IN.

 

 

RJ MAHALINGAM

[GrandTrinity]

hahaha, interesting. I think thisis true. One time i was maaaad depressed and I did a meditation thinking dead/life on enhale/exhale. Saposedly when you eat the holy grail you die too... I think the 4 dimensional art of life is the way to balance life and death. You cant just practice taoist yoga, you have to BECOME it.

[Yoda]

Ron,

 

Have you attained immortality, then? How does one know? Winn said that Ron Diana had attained immortality, so maybe you can sense it in another?

 

I'm not in agreement with this view, but I'm always a big fan of the Tao te RJ.

 

-Yoda

[peter falk]

i remember when my uncle gene died. he was a very special guy with a great sense of humor. cussed a lot too. i wore orange pants and billy bob teeth to his wake and walked up to my aunt and said, "recklon i been in tennessee too long." she laughed so hard no one knew what was happening.

 

"that's exacly how your uncle would want you to be here today!" she said. "but you better take those teeth out before you upset the people who don't get it."

 

so i did. mission accomplished. that was an italian funeral. lots of drunk people telling dirty jokes and funny stories. getting hit on by cousins (not much different than tennessee). we had a great time. all the funerals on that side of the family are like that.

[MatthewQi]

"so maybe you can sense it in another?"

 

Yoda,

 

Yes!

 

Matt

[MatthewQi]

On Tenga Rinpoche...

 

So last night I looked up Tenga Rinpche on the net to try and understand about him. I read a story about how in one of his incarnations he gave his trumpet to a boy and later when he reincarnated he asked this person for his trumpet back. The person, realizing that it was he who gave him the trumpet, gave it back to him.

 

Well, in the last 24 hours a trumpet has come up repeatedly in my living experience. Hey, maybe the universe is trying to tell me something

 

Matt

[neimad]

to live we have to die.

 

we have to let go of all the 'i' s we have built up in our life.

 

they all have to die in order to really know ourselves.

 

don juan speaks about this.

 

death is scary, we fear death cos we fear change and giving up our ego/our 'i' s.

 

i am becoming much more aware of all the different 'i's that inhabit my organic brain, that stop me from existing as me.

[Yoda]

Ever since I got my money back on Samsara, I've been extremely picky about choosing a post-death view.

 

In the taoist view where you have to earn immortality, what happens to the kids and the animals?

 

Children and animals have far superior energy flow than even the most top gun masters (Chia, Winn, Nan, etc) so they should fare the best in an attainment based view.

 

Even if being 'dispersed' is painless, it still isn't satisfying to the core drive of one's soul whether human, animal, martian, etc. Life always wants more. It's only acceptable on the most superficial intellectual level during but is rejected with utter revulsion on a visceral level.

 

-Yoda