Martial vs Non Martial

[h.uriahr]

Is there much difference between a martial art method of developing chi compared to say a non martial used method?

[Stigweard]

Yes there is a difference. Is one better than the other? Not in my mind ... it just depends what your priorities are. Just remember that where you focus your attention (or intention) there your consciousness, in fact whole being, will form.

[phore]

generally

martial arts develop chi then convert into internal power

Standing stakes (stance training) can do this

 

other forms of qigong use chi for other things such as spiritual development or healing

[autopoetic]

Is there much difference between a martial art method of developing chi compared to say a non martial used method?

 

It all depends on which particular martial or non-martial system you're looking at, of course. But in general, I understood martial systems to be more focused on power, and healing systems to be more focused on balance.

[de_paradise]

I think martial arts can easily take you down the wrong road. While studying Bagua, I noticed that I was one of the few who took spirituality and meditation seriously. The rest kinda gave it lip service, but really wanted to know how to beat the crap out of anyone anytime.

[doc benway]

I have a different viewpoint. There is only one way, IMO, to "develop" Qi.

That is through quieting the mind and training it to become aware of it's connection with the body on a level otherwise ignored. The Qi is always already there. I don't believe that you add more Qi or build up Qi or strengthen Qi, you just tune in to a mind/body/universe connection which the Chinese call Qi. I think Qi is a process or an interaction, not stuff. You become aware of the body in a new way. As that connection strengthens, it can be used for martial and healing purposes among other things.

 

In my view, the way to "develop" Qi is through meditation. The meditation can be seated (Daoist methods are specifically designed to do this), standing (Xing Yi Quan, Yi Quan), or moving (Tai Ji Quan, Ba Gua Zhang). Seated meditation allows the mind to become the most tranquil of the three and is therefore much more effective much faster. It's much more difficult to develop that subtle bond while standing, let alone moving.

 

Daoist meditation and neigong will take you much further in Qi cultivation than any of the martial arts. That's what it is designed to do. It takes you through a progressive curriculum of exercises specifically designed to develop that awareness to very high levels and beyond. The internal arts will give you a way to use that new skill in a martial sense. My teacher told me when I started practicing Daoist meditation that there is only so far one can go in the internal arts without Daoist meditation. After meditating for several years I believe him to be correct.

 

Just my $.02 - others have different and equally valid perspectives.

[.broken.]

Kudos Steve Thanks for opening my mind to a new concept, that chi isn't gathered and built... it's already there.

 

Much appreciated

[thelerner]

An excellent experienced teacher you really connect to and is pointing in a direction you'd like to go - is more important then the style of method taught.

 

I don't care if its boxing or tea ceremony. A great teacher will further you along the way. Ultimately you are learning only one thing.

 

 

Michael

[Stigweard]

I have a different viewpoint. There is only one way, IMO, to "develop" Qi.

That is through quieting the mind and training it to become aware of it's connection with the body on a level otherwise ignored. The Qi is always already there. I don't believe that you add more Qi or build up Qi or strengthen Qi, you just tune in to a mind/body/universe connection which the Chinese call Qi. I think Qi is a process or an interaction, not stuff. You become aware of the body in a new way. As that connection strengthens, it can be used for martial and healing purposes among other things.

 

I really appreciate what you have said here xue. In my experience we don't necessarily 'lack' Qi, it is more a case that our Qi becomes locked away in conditioned mindsets.

 

In our natural unfettered state our Qi is whole and unobstructed. However, as our minds become conditioned our Qi forms into calcified 'polyps' ... clusters of consciousness interpenetrating our energy field and physical body. If enough Qi/consciousness is 'invested' in these clusters then they can literally dominate our lives and lead to illness.

 

Personally I have coined these blockages 'psychodiverticles' (don't look in a dictionary it won't be there ) because, energetically, they can be sensed as constructs of consciousness that have been 'diverted' away from the mainstream of natural vitality. To Qi sensitivity they are like 'clouds of snot' in the energy field. To the physical senses they manifest as bodily tensions, pain, and illness.

 

In my training the foundation exercises/practices are primarily about dissolving these psychodiverticles to release Qi back into the energy field and reinstate natural vitality. In saying that though I also believe that we can absorb beneficial Qi from our environment. My favourites are Sun and Moon breathing. Though I also here your comment Xue that this could be simply 'tuning' in to these natural energies rather than 'building' internal Qi.

[Spectrum]

True martial art dissolves the internal opponent, which transforms the practice into spiritual/health. True healing art cultivates the natural defense mechanisms, which transforms the practice into martial/defense. The two ends of the spectrum coexist and support one another, realization of one kind, leads to the other. The dissolution of the subject object relationship through meditation (moving and still) creates a catalyst for transformative change regardless of the context of the subjects & objects involved.

[doc benway]

I really appreciate what you have said here xue. In my experience we don't necessarily 'lack' Qi, it is more a case that our Qi becomes locked away in conditioned mindsets.

 

In our natural unfettered state our Qi is whole and unobstructed. However, as our minds become conditioned our Qi forms into calcified 'polyps' ... clusters of consciousness interpenetrating our energy field and physical body. If enough Qi/consciousness is 'invested' in these clusters then they can literally dominate our lives and lead to illness.

 

Personally I have coined these blockages 'psychodiverticles' (don't look in a dictionary it won't be there ) because, energetically, they can be sensed as constructs of consciousness that have been 'diverted' away from the mainstream of natural vitality. To Qi sensitivity they are like 'clouds of snot' in the energy field. To the physical senses they manifest as bodily tensions, pain, and illness.

 

In my training the foundation exercises/practices are primarily about dissolving these psychodiverticles to release Qi back into the energy field and reinstate natural vitality. In saying that though I also believe that we can absorb beneficial Qi from our environment. My favourites are Sun and Moon breathing. Though I also here your comment Xue that this could be simply 'tuning' in to these natural energies rather than 'building' internal Qi.

Very interesting perspective Stig but it's psychodiverticuli...

[Stigweard]

Very interesting perspective Stig but it's psychodiverticuli...

 

 

Hahahaha !!! Indeed psychodiverticuli.

 

Cheers for the etymological correction

 

True martial art dissolves the internal opponent, which transforms the practice into spiritual/health. True healing art cultivates the natural defense mechanisms, which transforms the practice into martial/defense. The two ends of the spectrum coexist and support one another, realization of one kind, leads to the other. The dissolution of the subject object relationship through meditation (moving and still) creates a catalyst for transformative change regardless of the context of the subjects & objects involved.

 

 

Well said

Edited September 3, 2008 by Stigweard

[autopoetic]

I have a different viewpoint. There is only one way, IMO, to "develop" Qi.

That is through quieting the mind and training it to become aware of it's connection with the body on a level otherwise ignored. The Qi is always already there. I don't believe that you add more Qi or build up Qi or strengthen Qi, you just tune in to a mind/body/universe connection which the Chinese call Qi. I think Qi is a process or an interaction, not stuff. You become aware of the body in a new way. As that connection strengthens, it can be used for martial and healing purposes among other things.

 

I like this. It reminds me of a line from a meditation manual I once read... something like "Qi is more like music than electricity." It's a resonance or harmony, internal and external, rather than some mysterious juice that is pumped into the body.

[doc benway]

True martial art dissolves the internal opponent, which transforms the practice into spiritual/health. True healing art cultivates the natural defense mechanisms, which transforms the practice into martial/defense. The two ends of the spectrum coexist and support one another, realization of one kind, leads to the other. The dissolution of the subject object relationship through meditation (moving and still) creates a catalyst for transformative change regardless of the context of the subjects & objects involved.

I really like how you are bringing together the yin and yang aspects of this and I especially resonate with your comments about dissolution of the subjective and objective and attendant change.

[Spectrum]

I really like how you are bringing together the yin and yang aspects of this and I especially resonate with your comments about dissolution of the subjective and objective and attendant change.

 

This brings us to the point of practicality concerning various training methods. In the Taoist system that I have followed there are no distinctions made between internal and external, martial or healing. Indeed the Taoist philosophy supports "internal" training, but at the point of application, internal rises to meet the external at the point in which contact revolves. A punch remains a punch, a kick remains a kick.

 

Practically speaking these distinctions are defined with intent, the literal applications being very similar, with adjustments made to attributes in order fit the context of the situation. Speed, follow through (dislocating a joint vs. therapeutic manipulation), angle of contact, etc, are variables that define healing or martial intent.

 

I think the mature artist does not distinguish between the two, there is movement, and there is stillness, to know you are fighting or know you are healing is dubious. These things take care of themselves. We only need to focus on balance instead of "overcoming". This concerns subject object dissolution and being "one" with your "opponent". By dissolving internal opponents external conflicts seem to resolve easier. If your carrying around a lot of baggage, that tends to get in the way of quick resolution. By clearing out the psychophysical inhibitions that block chi flow the protector remains whole and yet blends into the opponent, and it remains self evident when one disturbs the peace. There is a fine line of intent that defines a peace bringer from a war maker.

Edited September 4, 2008 by Spectrum

[h.uriahr]

Very nice. Any opinions as to which one opens up your sensitivity the quickest?

[Stigweard]

These things take care of themselves. We only need to focus on balance instead of "overcoming". This concerns subject object dissolution and being "one" with your "opponent". By dissolving internal opponents external conflicts seem to resolve easier.

 

Precisely. In my view the establishment and maintenance of harmony is the prime intent within both a martial and a healing situation. Step one is to achieve deep rooted harmony within the self and then, if either internal or external discord manifests, respond intuitively and appropriately to reestablish harmony.

 

It is in this sense that, as a martial art, I revere arts like Taijiquan as healing arts using "healing hand" rather than "death touch/poison hand".

 

Thank you for reminding me of this Spectrum. This perspective helps to dissolve the polarities, unify one's practice and achieve the most beneficial intent.

[Spectrum]

...

Edited September 5, 2008 by Spectrum

[doc benway]

Very nice. Any opinions as to which one opens up your sensitivity the quickest?

The one that is best avoided.

 

Sensitivity and internal skill are only achievable through consistent and skillful practice over time.

There are no worthwhile short cuts, IMO.

[Gerard]

I have a different viewpoint. There is only one way, IMO, to "develop" Qi.

That is through quieting the mind and training it to become aware of it's connection with the body on a level otherwise ignored. The Qi is always already there. I don't believe that you add more Qi or build up Qi or strengthen Qi, you just tune in to a mind/body/universe connection which the Chinese call Qi. I think Qi is a process or an interaction, not stuff. You become aware of the body in a new way. As that connection strengthens, it can be used for martial and healing purposes among other things.

 

 

Sorry but let me disagree. You strengthen your chi with internal development. Internal as jing-chi-shen and 5 elements applied to internal organs. In addition quality of fire/yang chi coming from good food and air quality, being air quality the most important of the two.

 

The more you cultive the more you'll strengthen the quality of chi you process and the thickness of the spiritual channels. Eventually you'll become a huge channel canalising chi like a volcano.

[h.uriahr]

Martial development is a bit limited isnt it?

[h.uriahr]

I have a different viewpoint. There is only one way, IMO, to "develop" Qi.

That is through quieting the mind and training it to become aware of it's connection with the body on a level otherwise ignored. The Qi is always already there. I don't believe that you add more Qi or build up Qi or strengthen Qi, you just tune in to a mind/body/universe connection which the Chinese call Qi. I think Qi is a process or an interaction, not stuff. You become aware of the body in a new way. As that connection strengthens, it can be used for martial and healing purposes among other things.

 

In my view, the way to "develop" Qi is through meditation. The meditation can be seated (Daoist methods are specifically designed to do this), standing (Xing Yi Quan, Yi Quan), or moving (Tai Ji Quan, Ba Gua Zhang). Seated meditation allows the mind to become the most tranquil of the three and is therefore much more effective much faster. It's much more difficult to develop that subtle bond while standing, let alone moving.

 

Daoist meditation and neigong will take you much further in Qi cultivation than any of the martial arts. That's what it is designed to do. It takes you through a progressive curriculum of exercises specifically designed to develop that awareness to very high levels and beyond. The internal arts will give you a way to use that new skill in a martial sense. My teacher told me when I started practicing Daoist meditation that there is only so far one can go in the internal arts without Daoist meditation. After meditating for several years I believe him to be correct.

 

Just my $.02 - others have different and equally valid perspectives.

There are many ways to become aware. I had an amazing experience with SHAKING. Shaking is a great way to experience chi flow. I would say that it's the best way to get a feel for what youre working with. Follow it up with any type of qigong, tai chi or any slow meditation and youre on the fast track to cultivation. Just ask my teacher Hunlun if you have any questions. He also gave me a small transmission just to help

[h.uriahr]

I was once told that chi is simple. Chi is life. Life is chi. Dont over think it. There is no "secret" poses or mudras or mantras that just open the flood gate any quicker than the ones already available. Often times the simplistic way is the right way. Opening the mind to the possibility is the first step. Settling the mind and letting the body go is the next. If your mind settles then your body can do what it has to do. Does it work? I am a living testimony to it working.

[thelerner]

Martial development is a bit limited isnt it?

 

Not necessarily. There's an intensity and focus to martial training that may be missing in non martial developments. Good martial arts include healing techniques and the opportunity to use them .

 

Michael