mantak chia's real teacher's?

[erdweir]

i hate to perpetuate a rumour, if indeed that is what i am doing, but has anybody heard this story that mantak chia actually learned all of his taoist techniques from three teachers in new york?

 

i was told this briefly by a martial arts teacher who feel uncomfortable naming on a public forum.

 

they said that although chia learned authentic formulas from these three as of yet unnamed new york teachers, the teachers were very disappointed in him for publishing them. supposedly because they were dangerous and thus unethical to give to people who might damage themselves trying them alone without an instructor.

 

this would make chia's claims about his lineage bogus, of course, but would also preserve the authenticity of his teachings.

 

i dont personally know what to think of the story, and have no way of confirming it on my own.

 

i even feel weird putting this out there, but then i know that there have been numerous controversies surrounding the publications of western kaballah, tantra, etc. and the tendency to claim lineage to immortals, secret chiefs, etc. is also quite common and often found questionable.

 

so anybody heard this one before?

Edited September 3, 2008 by erdweir

[宁]

well i heard that the moon was made out of blue cheese

 

or at least that's the way i heard it

 

not to mention pink elephants

[erdweir]

that's not particularly helpful

[Pietro]

i hate to perpetuate a rumour, if indeed that is what i am doing, but has anybody heard this story that mantak chia actually learned all of his taoist techniques from three teachers in new york?

 

i was told this briefly by a martial arts teacher who feel uncomfortable naming on a public forum.

 

they said that although chia learned authentic formulas from these three as of yet unnamed new york teachers, the teachers were very disappointed in him for publishing them. supposedly because they were dangerous and thus unethical to give to people who might damage themselves trying them alone without an instructor.

 

this would make chia's claims about his lineage bogus, of course, but would also preserve the authenticity of his teachings.

 

i dont personally know what to think of the story, and have no way of confirming it on my own.

 

i even feel weird putting this out there, but then i know that there have been numerous controversies surrounding the publications of western kaballah, tantra, etc. and the tendency to claim lineage to immortals, secret chiefs, etc. is also quite common and often found questionable.

 

so anybody heard this one before?

 

DOn't know much about New York teachers, but I am quite sure most of Mantak sexual stuff comes from Taiwan.

 

The name of James McNeil ( http://www.littlenineheaven.com ) was given to me as a possible source. But I am not sure if it was him personally to teach him in Taiwan, or his teacher, or who.

 

I haven't so far explored McNeill website. If any one did, it would be interesting to hear a review. Especially about the sexual stuff. How does it relates to Chia's. Is it more complete? DOes it give any problem in the long run?

 

 

Cheers,

Pietro

[Trunk]

... has anybody heard this story that mantak chia actually learned all of his taoist techniques from three teachers in new york?

I hadn't heard that specifically, but I have heard... from M.Winn that the last time Chia saw White/One-Cloud that Chia was in his teens. Chia said in a seminar that he travelled quite a bit and studied with a number of teachers before he came to the US. It also seems to me that he is always learning and exploring from various sources: he mentiond that he was trying to get into a certain style of Thai massage but that it was very political.. rather, cliqueish. Also, he doesn't always come by his info by ethical means: he's been in a number of lawsuits re: plaigarism - an ex-instructor was living at Tao Garden when one of those came up and he got a chance to compare the original author's book to Chia's as-yet-unpublished book, "word for word, page after page" was the phrase that I remember. So, that's the info from reliable sources (imo) that I've seen/heard.

 

Trunk

Edited September 3, 2008 by Trunk

[Lighttime]

i hate to perpetuate a rumour, if indeed that is what i am doing, but has anybody heard this story that mantak chia actually learned all of his taoist techniques from three teachers in new york?

 

i was told this briefly by a martial arts teacher who feel uncomfortable naming on a public forum.

 

they said that although chia learned authentic formulas from these three as of yet unnamed new york teachers, the teachers were very disappointed in him for publishing them. supposedly because they were dangerous and thus unethical to give to people who might damage themselves trying them alone without an instructor.

 

this would make chia's claims about his lineage bogus, of course, but would also preserve the authenticity of his teachings.

 

i dont personally know what to think of the story, and have no way of confirming it on my own.

 

i even feel weird putting this out there, but then i know that there have been numerous controversies surrounding the publications of western kaballah, tantra, etc. and the tendency to claim lineage to immortals, secret chiefs, etc. is also quite common and often found questionable.

 

so anybody heard this one before?

 

 

Check these links.

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=5678&hl=

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=5730&hl=

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=5761&hl=

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=5819&hl=

 

http://www.littlenineheaven.com/gallery/1988/index.html

 

http://www.littlenineheaven.com/gallery/1996/index.html

 

http://www.fullkontact.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=878

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=6433&hl=

[erdweir]

this is all very interesting, i had never heard of james mcneil.

 

one of the things i am picking up on is that chia seems to have allot of material which closely resembles that of some others. the bone marrow washing is just one example. if you look on the wikipedia article for mantak chia, it mentions he is being taken to court by someone who claims he stole his inner smile technique.

 

but then you have to admit that things like the healing sounds, for example, have a really long tradition behind them and there are allot of different versions of them. so does anybody really own them?

 

it does seem that chia has taken allot of elements from different places. maybe he is slack about giving credit. it seems i am not the only one hearing these stories.

[h.uriahr]

Are his books any good?

[宁]

that's not particularly helpful

 

sorry there I tried to be funny but on the note

my point was you cannot get that information via internet or hearsay

not to mention - not from the nay-sayers

nevertheless, the info on this is out there

I'm a big fan of his teachings so don't mind me, I cannot be too fair regarding this matters

just the process of validating what can appear to be working or not - it's a little different than we would normally expect

so good luck, take care and please remember that teachers are more important than books

 

L1

[chuangzu]

I read Mantak Chias books when they first came out in the 1980's. In the original edition of 'Awaken Healing Energies through the Tao' he claims to have been taught at the White Clouds temple for two years. He also did Aikido previously.

 

It's up to you in my opinion if you want to learn from a master who has studied for only two years. Since this time I have noticed many similarities between Chia's method and other books which also reference a certain carving in the White Clouds temple a version of which can be viewed on the Internet. For example Dau Liu's 'Tai Chi and meditation', Chee Soo's 'Taoist Yoga', Charles Luk's (Lu Kuan Yu) 'Taoist Yoga' and 'Secrets of Chinese Meditation', 'Doctrine of the Elixir' by R B Jefferson, 'Secret of the Golden Flower' various translations, 'Spiritual Disciplines' (pages from the Eranos yearbooks - chapter on Spiritual guidance in contemporary Taoism) and so on and so forth.

 

In my humble opinion anyone who has to practice smiling is barking up the wrong tree entirely.

[宁]

the books are out there as an invitation, nothing more

i'm expecting that over the years, many of the guys that had "dissapointments" with the Healing Tao and Mantak Chia, should return to re-evaluate, and take a second opinion.

i'm sure that now, after so many years of google-ing thru many-many systems and ideas, they should be ready to understand the system better, the one that got it all started, for many of them.

it should be something like ending a cycle...

until then...

 

the question is not what we think is suitable or not for us, it's always the call of the Heavens...

what i meant to say with the above post is that the teachings of the Heavens may, and they even do, differ from what we would expect from... many things: how the teacher should be, how the instruction should follow, how the payments should take place and so on.

there are many powerful and very smart practicioners choosing to go with the system Mantak is teaching. when you ask them why on earth do they choose this over many others.... they answer: i don't know what others can see, but when i search in the non-physical, is quite obvious, Mantak has the power...

don't ask me what do they mean by that

 

good luck

 

L1

[Pietro]

I read Mantak Chias books when they first came out in the 1980's. In the original edition of 'Awaken Healing Energies through the Tao' he claims to have been taught at the White Clouds temple for two years.

...

 

One thing that I notice is that many masters seem to have studied many years here and there, but then they studied 1-3 years daily with -insert big name here-.

 

It seems that those 1-3 years, of daily study, with the key person on a one to one basis are what really 'makes' masters.

 

Nice to see you back, CT, btw. I really enjoyed your book. Since you now speak english could you suggest us what translation is more similar to the original you wrote?

 

Pietro