Anyone here familair with Laohu Gong?

[Qui-Dao]

Is anyone familiar with this practice?

 

Chinese Shamanic Tiger Qigong Laohu Gong With Master Zhongxian Wu

 

(click the above link for the product webpage)

Edited September 11, 2008 by Qui-Dao

[Spirit Ape]

Yeah, interesting like to know more about it and who has trained it!

 

thanks

Spirit Ape

[Sahaj Nath]

if i recall correctly, VcraigP is a current student of Master Wu.

 

 

 

i use to practice the form every day. i really liked it. it's beautiful.

[SiliconValley]

Very beautiful form...and somewhat difficult for me as well, may be because I was trying to do it from the video

Edited September 12, 2008 by SiliconValley

[Spirit Ape]

Thanks

 

Is it one long form or is it a series of little forms like sections to be practiced seperately?

 

Also is that form a complete system in itself or is there more to this shamanic style?

 

Also anyone like to share this dvd?

 

Spirit Ape

[gendao]

Funny, I was spontaneously doing some of these same movements basically this past weekend when I was outdoors camping. Cyclic silk-reeling-type movements punctuated by occasional fajing-type moves..

Edited September 11, 2008 by vortex

[Qui-Dao]

Thanks a lot for the information!

[Sahaj Nath]

Thanks

 

Is it one long form or is it a series of little forms like sections to be practiced seperately?

 

Also is that form a complete system in itself or is there more to this shamanic style?

 

Also anyone like to share this dvd?

 

Spirit Ape

 

it's one form. if it was a series of forms a.) i doubt 24 of them would fit on one disc and b.) it would certainly cost a lot more.

 

what do you mean by 'is it a complete system?' it does what any good qigong set should do for you, plus there are subtleties of body mechanics that you don't find in other sets. if you don't already have a strong foundation in something like taiji or bagua or white crane or something, you're not likely to pick up the subtleties from watching the video.

 

i think the video is extremely well-done and very easy to learn from, but i pick up this sort of thing rather quickly. i think it's one of the most enjoyable to watch, the music is great, the studio lighting and design is great, master wu is graceful, and the beauty of the form, if done well, is stunning.

 

hmm... i think i get what you're asking now about the 'complete system' thing, and you can correct me if i'm off:

 

in my opinion, calling it "shamanic" is a bit of a marketing touch. by his own analysis, 'shaman' is really just another word for 'sage.' mt. emmei sage school. the truly shamanic quality comes in when you embrace a free-spirited sensibility with the practice after you've mastered the movements as taught. once you can do them correctly, like any good form, it begins to reveal new things to you and you evolve with it.

 

it's just one practice of the mt emmei sage school, so i wouldn't call it "complete" in THAT sense, but it does every thing a good qigong set should do, AND THEN SOME, so it could be looked at as more than complete.

 

also, 'shamanic tiger' is master wu's innovation. it's not an ancient, original form. so for those of you who still hold to the belief that "older = better" this might not be what you're looking for.

 

but as i've already said, it's one of my favorites.

 

 

i'm not sharing this DVD. sorry. it is WELL worth the price, and i think anyone interested really should buy it. the book is mediocre and the description of the movements in the book is identical to the commentary on the video. i enjoyed the book, but it was more a forensic anthropological survey (ambitious and good, but not great) than it was a book on the form or the school.

 

hope this helps.

[rain]

Funny, I was spontaneously doing some of these same movements basically this past weekend when I was outdoors camping. Cyclic silk-reeling-type movements punctuated by occasional fajing-type moves..

 

 

 

thanks for showing these. really now I feeel a lot less ridiculous looking at my videoclip.

[VCraigP]

it's one form. if it was a series of forms a.) i doubt 24 of them would fit on one disc and b.) it would certainly cost a lot more.

 

what do you mean by 'is it a complete system?' it does what any good qigong set should do for you, plus there are subtleties of body mechanics that you don't find in other sets. if you don't already have a strong foundation in something like taiji or bagua or white crane or something, you're not likely to pick up the subtleties from watching the video.

 

i think the video is extremely well-done and very easy to learn from, but i pick up this sort of thing rather quickly. i think it's one of the most enjoyable to watch, the music is great, the studio lighting and design is great, master wu is graceful, and the beauty of the form, if done well, is stunning.

 

hmm... i think i get what you're asking now about the 'complete system' thing, and you can correct me if i'm off:

 

in my opinion, calling it "shamanic" is a bit of a marketing touch. by his own analysis, 'shaman' is really just another word for 'sage.' mt. emmei sage school. the truly shamanic quality comes in when you embrace a free-spirited sensibility with the practice after you've mastered the movements as taught. once you can do them correctly, like any good form, it begins to reveal new things to you and you evolve with it.

 

it's just one practice of the mt emmei sage school, so i wouldn't call it "complete" in THAT sense, but it does every thing a good qigong set should do, AND THEN SOME, so it could be looked at as more than complete.

 

also, 'shamanic tiger' is master wu's innovation. it's not an ancient, original form. so for those of you who still hold to the belief that "older = better" this might not be what you're looking for.

 

but as i've already said, it's one of my favorites.

i'm not sharing this DVD. sorry. it is WELL worth the price, and i think anyone interested really should buy it. the book is mediocre and the description of the movements in the book is identical to the commentary on the video. i enjoyed the book, but it was more a forensic anthropological survey (ambitious and good, but not great) than it was a book on the form or the school.

 

hope this helps.

 

 

Hundun

 

You are right I am currently a student of Master Wu, whenever I can connect. I travelled with him in China for three weeks this year.

 

LaoHu Gong means Respected Old Tiger Gong

 

Emei shengong has it origins at Mt Emei, originally a Taoist mountain, but now much more widely known as a buddhist holy place. Like Wudang many arts claim the name of a mountain in their practice. Therefore many styles which claim Wudang in their title may only refer to the region, or someone who had been practicing in the Wudang Mtn area, but not necessarily a direct connection to Wudang Temple. The same applies to Emei.

 

From studying with him and learning more about his knowledge and emphasis in his Tao practice I would have to say without reservation that his style is Shamanic. To say "Shaman is just another word for sage" is to take a shallow interpretation of his attempt to convey a complex Chinese concept. Chinese words are often not simple and not amenable to simple translation. Therefore a Wu is a sage and is a Shaman, and is other things as well. Master Wu is a master not only of Emei sage style Qigong, therefore I am confident in saying he calls this Shamanic because that is the emphasis of this school.

 

Can you explain what you mean when you say that " 'shamanic tiger' is master wu's innovation. it's not an ancient, original form."

 

Do you know something I don't? I am open to hear it.

 

Also the performance of this form is I believe enhanced by the shamanic approach of embodying the tiger. Various parts of the form encourage this embodiment in ways which are not made explicit on the DVD or in the Book. The form is a journey through the 24 stages of the chinese calendar year also. It is also 24 individual qigong's too. Each piece of the form can be explored individually and each piece has certain health benefits specifically that it can be helpful with. It is definitely not just a Metal element form, which one might misinterpret from the Tiger being connected with the Metal element. It IS connected to the element in that promotion of Zheng Qi, or Upright - righteous Qi is intended in the practice, but Zheng Qi should always be the starting point or foundation of any practice.

 

I agree with the rest of your review. If you have any movement training at all you should be able to somewhat duplicate the movements and learn it. Nothing worth doing well is too easy, but this form is worth exploring. My only complaint about the DVD is you don't get to hear Master Wu's voice. He has a pretty thick accent, but not too bad, and I much prefer hearing his voice. But it's probably the best for everyone else. very high quality DVD.

 

This form is a complete cultivation practice in itself, if you explore it deeply it can take you a long way. Get the DVD and do it every day for 49 days without fail. This is the method Master Wu promotes as the traditional way to really OWN a practice, really integrate it. I highly recomend it.

 

Craig

[Spirit Ape]

Thanks Hundun,

 

I understand it really isnt much to by the dvd but as you know you do sometimes spend money of a dvd that ends up being not what you wanted so thought to ask for sharing.

 

Do you still practice this system, i see alot of silk reeling and body loosening in it!

 

cheers

Ape

 

Craig,

 

Does the DVD explain the breathing with the movements or does it use a natural, reverse breathing pattern?

 

Ape

[Qui-Dao]

Craig,

 

Thanks so much for the write up. In your opinion, do you think think it is feasible for a beginner to learn this system from the dvd? Do you recommend to study it under a teacher? and lastly, do you happen to know anyone who teaches this in NYC area?

 

Thanks very much again!

[Sahaj Nath]

 

From studying with him and learning more about his knowledge and emphasis in his Tao practice I would have to say without reservation that his style is Shamanic. To say "Shaman is just another word for sage" is to take a shallow interpretation of his attempt to convey a complex Chinese concept. Chinese words are often not simple and not amenable to simple translation. Therefore a Wu is a sage and is a Shaman, and is other things as well. Master Wu is a master not only of Emei sage style Qigong, therefore I am confident in saying he calls this Shamanic because that is the emphasis of this school.

 

Can you explain what you mean when you say that " 'shamanic tiger' is master wu's innovation. it's not an ancient, original form."

 

Do you know something I don't? I am open to hear it.

 

 

well, that was based on GrandTrinity who used to hang out on the forum. he studied with Grandmaster Zhang for a little while and said that Zhang told him that the 8- or 10-move lao hu gong that he still teaches is the original, and Master Wu, who studied under him for a time, developed it into the 'shamanic' tiger gong, whereas before it was just tiger gong. i'm not trying to be misleading or disparaging in any way here; that's how i remember it.

 

so when i add to that understanding the words of Master Wu himself that in ancient times shamans were considered sages, and sages were shamans (which i read to mean "to be a sage is to be a shaman"), and the fact that the school is the mt. Emei SAGE school, then it's reasonable for him to rename it shamanic even if the form did not originate with ancient shamans. LAO does mean 'respected, old' but isn't 'tiger' ALWAYS pronounced lao hu? i feel as if he's playing on the multiplicity of meanings, which is fine, but Zhang's lao hu gong doesn't claim the shamanic part, even though technically it could, being that lao can be morphed into 'sage' rather easily. but the renovation of the form by Master Wu gives him all the license he needs, i guess, being that his form does have more of a raw, primal flavor to it.

 

 

i was wrong to conflate being shamanic with being ancient. 'shamanic' does not necessitate that the form is ancient, and my original statement assumed that it did.

 

but i totally agree that the form is legitimately shamanic in nature. that's what i love about it. that's also what i enjoy about five animal frolics, which i have to offer as a juxtaposition: there's an argument to be made that it could be called "the shamanic five animals system" and it would gain a lot more attention from people here in the west. such a renaming would be easily justifiable, but would only serve to make the form more marketable to certain folks.

 

if i'm wrong about the Grandmaster Zhang connection, go ahead and set me straight.

[VCraigP]

well, that was based on GrandTrinity who used to hang out on the forum. he studied with Grandmaster Zhang for a little while and said that Zhang told him that the 8- or 10-move lao hu gong that he still teaches is the original, and Master Wu, who studied under him for a time, developed it into the 'shamanic' tiger gong, whereas before it was just tiger gong. i'm not trying to be misleading or disparaging in any way here; that's how i remember it.

 

so when i add to that understanding the words of Master Wu himself that in ancient times shamans were considered sages, and sages were shamans (which i read to mean "to be a sage is to be a shaman"), and the fact that the school is the mt. Emei SAGE school, then it's reasonable for him to rename it shamanic even if the form did not originate with ancient shamans. LAO does mean 'respected, old' but isn't 'tiger' ALWAYS pronounced lao hu? i feel as if he's playing on the multiplicity of meanings, which is fine, but Zhang's lao hu gong doesn't claim the shamanic part, even though technically it could, being that lao can be morphed into 'sage' rather easily. but the renovation of the form by Master Wu gives him all the license he needs, i guess, being that his form does have more of a raw, primal flavor to it.

i was wrong to conflate being shamanic with being ancient. 'shamanic' does not necessitate that the form is ancient, and my original statement assumed that it did.

 

but i totally agree that the form is legitimately shamanic in nature. that's what i love about it. that's also what i enjoy about five animal frolics, which i have to offer as a juxtaposition: there's an argument to be made that it could be called "the shamanic five animals system" and it would gain a lot more attention from people here in the west. such a renaming would be easily justifiable, but would only serve to make the form more marketable to certain folks.

 

if i'm wrong about the Grandmaster Zhang connection, go ahead and set me straight.

 

Thanks for the quality of your response. I have no clue who "Grandmaster" Zhang is. We may be getting into the realm of Chinese politics here if you take my meaning.

 

Master Wu has himself indicated there are probably hundreds of Tiger Qigong forms.

 

LaoHu is Tiger in Chinese, but I was giving a little more information about what the name means.

 

I have no reason to believe that Master Wu's form is not as directly taught to him by his Emei zhengong

master. This is one of several from this school which I have learned from him. I wonder if "Grandmaster" Zhang would like to take credit for all of these as well?

 

Master Wu has strong credentials in China where he has published far more than he has in English.

 

In my opinion he is already an accomplished sage and at the age of 41 at that. I am TOTALLY Biased, but he is an authentic seeker of the Tao with accomplishments in Qigong, Taiji, Calligraphy, Qin, Chinese Medicine, Healing, I Ching, Divination and probably some things I don't know about.

 

The "Shamanic" aspect has been perceived by a others as a gimmick. I assure you from my experience of his body of teaching that this aspect is at the root of his Emei lineage. The problem here may be one of language. Shamanism means something in the west, especially in the New Agey world, and it also has a meaning in China, but the differences may be hard to see and the cause of confusion from both perspectives.

 

I would be hesitant to relay a second hand opinion of Grand Trinity who came on this forum and basically Trashed Master Wu and his Tiger Qigong. I well remember his post and his allegation which seems a stretch at best. I am surprised you would relay such a second hand slander from someone you don't even know.

 

I think your experience of the form speaks the highest truth in this. I appreciate your clarity and directness.

 

Craig

[Sahaj Nath]

Thanks for the quality of your response. I have no clue who "Grandmaster" Zhang is. We may be getting into the realm of Chinese politics here if you take my meaning.

 

Master Wu has himself indicated there are probably hundreds of Tiger Qigong forms.

 

LaoHu is Tiger in Chinese, but I was giving a little more information about what the name means.

 

I have no reason to believe that Master Wu's form is not as directly taught to him by his Emei zhengong

master. This is one of several from this school which I have learned from him. I wonder if "Grandmaster" Zhang would like to take credit for all of these as well?

 

Master Wu has strong credentials in China where he has published far more than he has in English.

 

In my opinion he is already an accomplished sage and at the age of 41 at that. I am TOTALLY Biased, but he is an authentic seeker of the Tao with accomplishments in Qigong, Taiji, Calligraphy, Qin, Chinese Medicine, Healing, I Ching, Divination and probably some things I don't know about.

 

The "Shamanic" aspect has been perceived by a others as a gimmick. I assure you from my experience of his body of teaching that this aspect is at the root of his Emei lineage. The problem here may be one of language. Shamanism means something in the west, especially in the New Agey world, and it also has a meaning in China, but the differences may be hard to see and the cause of confusion from both perspectives.

 

I would be hesitant to relay a second hand opinion of Grand Trinity who came on this forum and basically Trashed Master Wu and his Tiger Qigong. I well remember his post and his allegation which seems a stretch at best. I am surprised you would relay such a second hand slander from someone you don't even know.

 

I think your experience of the form speaks the highest truth in this. I appreciate your clarity and directness.

 

Craig

 

 

 

yeah, i'd have to say that you're a *little* biased! LOL!

 

it's all good, man.

 

GrandTrinity didn't *trash* Master Wu, at least not when he and i talked privately. he actually loved the shamanic tiger form. he was just more impressed with Grandmaster Zhang, whom he considered to be a true sorcerer and downright dangerous!

 

he was young, so he didn't always say things the right way, like when he said he felt duped by Master Wu because what Grandmaster Zhang showed him was older, simpler, and (he thought) more powerful. but that's not slander. if i remember correctly, he even apologized for that comment. in fact, didn't he apologize to you?

 

this is GM Zhang: http://www.qigongmaster.com/ he's the one i wrote about being an ass-clown in the other thread.

 

i don't think GrandTrinity was making it up. i had conversations with the kid. he was young, but that's not a crime, and what he stated was what he was told by GM Zhang. now, that having been said, it still could have been BS politics on the part of GM Zhang, and i'm totally open to that. as i wrote in the other thread, my transaction with the guy left me thinking he was an ass-clown.

 

you should ask Master Wu if he studied with him. better yet, i'll write him tonight and ask him myself.

 

 

i respect your position. i have no personal dispute with your perspective. i'm just not quite so taken with Master Wu. maybe that will change over time as i remain in contact with him. but whatevs.

[Spirit Ape]

Hundun,

 

The Tiger form is from Master Zhang that teaches the Pyramid qi kung am i reading you correctly?

 

thanks

Spirit Ape

 

Is this the same Shamanic tiger qi kung as Maser Wu?

 

Tiger Qigong

Because it is the essence of Taoist Medical Qigong and Internal Kungfu, it was only taught to the royal family in the past. The tiger groaning mantra enables you to gather qi and circulate it in your body. It also teaches you how to make qi water through tiger calligraphy. Each of the eight movements can be used as and individual method in the standing and sitting posture. You can also apply it into qi-emitting and self -defense .It has a remarkable effect in strengthening the body and building up internal power. ( Solo or with a partner)

 

Ape

[VCraigP]

 

yeah, i'd have to say that you're a *little* biased! LOL!

 

 

 

You are a gentleman and a scholar.

 

And I said I am TOTALLY biased - get it right man

 

Craig

[Spirit Ape]

bump!!!

[松永道]

With fall fast approaching now is the right time to practice the 7 weeks of Laohu Gong, if you're interested. Not that you couldn't practice at any other time throughout the year, but like Craig said, though it's not just a Metal form, it still does share a special relationship with Metal quality, specifically Zheng/Zhen Qi which, among other things, will keep the autumn sniffles at bay.

 

Master Wu is a good teacher and I can personally attest that he genuinely cares for the wellbeing and progress of his students.

 

And I can also personally attest that Craig is a good student!

 

[Qui-Dao]

With fall fast approaching now is the right time to practice the 7 weeks of Laohu Gong, if you're interested. Not that you couldn't practice at any other time throughout the year, but like Craig said, though it's not just a Metal form, it still does share a special relationship with Metal quality, specifically Zheng/Zhen Qi which, among other things, will keep the autumn sniffles at bay.

 

Master Wu is a good teacher and I can personally attest that he genuinely cares for the wellbeing and progress of his students.

 

And I can also personally attest that Craig is a good student!

 

 

Is it advisable for beginners to practice this qigong by learning from dvd alone without a live teacher? My only background is I have learned and practiced 8 Pieces Of Brocades qigong, but that was very elementary stuff.

 

Thanks!

[VCraigP]

Is it advisable for beginners to practice this qigong by learning from dvd alone without a live teacher? My only background is I have learned and practiced 8 Pieces Of Brocades qigong, but that was very elementary stuff.

 

Thanks!

 

I see no reason why a begginer shouldn't practice this form.

 

Go slow and do your best to match the movements. Look to understand the proportions of your body. Many of the stances are really quite deep. One of the first things I noticed about practicing Wu's forms was that they had very challenging stance work. You get a good work out of the phyical body. So Qigong is not just about Qi. My earlier experiences had led me to think that all Qigong was soft and unchallenging to the body. This form is almost martial arts and Qigong. In fact Master Wu teaches applications for a great many of the moves contained in this form. So on the physical level it can be challenging and help you build a stronger foundation. A very important thing, especially if you have no movement or martial arts background.

 

Just go for it. One of my good friends and fellow students got this video first and studied it for several months before becoming a dedicated student of Wu. He had already got a lot out of the DVD, but then decided to carry on learning from Master Wu.

 

Good Luck

 

Craig

[Qui-Dao]

I see no reason why a begginer shouldn't practice this form.

 

Go slow and do your best to match the movements. Look to understand the proportions of your body. Many of the stances are really quite deep. One of the first things I noticed about practicing Wu's forms was that they had very challenging stance work. You get a good work out of the phyical body. So Qigong is not just about Qi. My earlier experiences had led me to think that all Qigong was soft and unchallenging to the body. This form is almost martial arts and Qigong. In fact Master Wu teaches applications for a great many of the moves contained in this form. So on the physical level it can be challenging and help you build a stronger foundation. A very important thing, especially if you have no movement or martial arts background.

 

Just go for it. One of my good friends and fellow students got this video first and studied it for several months before becoming a dedicated student of Wu. He had already got a lot out of the DVD, but then decided to carry on learning from Master Wu.

 

Good Luck

 

Craig

 

Thanks for your input Craig! Really appreciate it.

 

I bought the DVD and the book a while back, when I watched the dvd the first time, I was intimidated and discouraged, I thought: no way I am going to be able to learn this on my own. Your encouragement helps me to counter my self doubts, I am going to start to read the book this weekend and see what develops.

 

My goal is modest: learn qigong, study Tao, in hope that it would help to maintain physical health, quiet my mind, gain better balance in life, and be more harmonious with the Tao/nature. I want to pick a qigong practice to accompany me in achieving these objectives. I don't have a teacher (would love to have one but have not been able to find a good teacher yet), and I don't know what practice to take given the fact that there are so many qigong practices (forms/systems) out there.

[Sahaj Nath]

I see no reason why a begginer shouldn't practice this form.

 

Go slow and do your best to match the movements. Look to understand the proportions of your body. Many of the stances are really quite deep. One of the first things I noticed about practicing Wu's forms was that they had very challenging stance work. You get a good work out of the phyical body. So Qigong is not just about Qi. My earlier experiences had led me to think that all Qigong was soft and unchallenging to the body. This form is almost martial arts and Qigong. In fact Master Wu teaches applications for a great many of the moves contained in this form. So on the physical level it can be challenging and help you build a stronger foundation. A very important thing, especially if you have no movement or martial arts background.

 

Just go for it. One of my good friends and fellow students got this video first and studied it for several months before becoming a dedicated student of Wu. He had already got a lot out of the DVD, but then decided to carry on learning from Master Wu.

 

Good Luck

 

Craig

 

 

this made me really happy. openness. no proclamation of how it "MUST" be learned in-person from the master, though of course one would get to learn (and receive) a whole lot more that way.

 

 

"Just go for it."

 

 

 

you're a good guy.

[riverheron]

hi all ~ I just thought I would add my 2 cents to this thread . . . I have been a student of master wu for 6 years now, alongside vCraigP, and also travelled to China with him last spring. I personally love the practice of laohu gong ~ it is a form which really awakens the Qi within the inner body. In my understanding, the form is about 300 yrs old, and not a recent innovation by master wu. During an advanced laohu gong retreat we were led into the symbolic meanings of each of the 24 movements in relation with the chinese lunar calendar, and the depth of information behind the form speaks of deep roots.

 

as for learning the form from the dvd, I think it is possible to follow and get a good idea of the form this way. Of course, many of the details only come through with repeated practice with a live teacher, but this doesn't mean there won't be great benefit from the practice. For a qigong beginner, it may be a bit much to take on through the dvd. I might recommend starting with wu's 5 Elements Qigong, which is a very simple, yet very powerful form from the same lineage. Never before have five simple movements kicked my butt (or more specifically, my 5 organ system) so deeply There is a dvd (less polished than the Laohu Gong dvd, but good nonetheless) of the 5 Elements form available on master wu's site (www.masterwu.net) if anyone is interested.

 

 

 

 

with love qi ~

Edited September 15, 2008 by riverheron

[Sahaj Nath]

In my understanding, the form is about 300 yrs old, and not a recent innovation by master wu. During an advanced laohu gong retreat we were led into the symbolic meanings of each of the 24 movements in relation with the chinese lunar calendar, and the depth of information behind the form speaks of deep roots.

 

not sure what to make of your response because of the ambiguity. not sure what to make of the "in my understanding" preface.

 

as i've already said, i adore the form, and i have no doubt that its theoretical underpinnings are deeply rooted in ancient knowledge. but that doesn't mean the form itself is as old as the knowledge it's rooted in. did Master Wu ever talk about the age of the actual form?

 

 

in truth, i actually hope he designed it. i would really like to study with him if that's the case.

 

 

either way, i finally got around to writing Master Wu this morning. i'll post his response when i get it.