Need advice finding a mindful path into Taoist practice and TCM

[Duifang]

I began learning taijchuan about four years ago in order to deal with chronic lower back pain. I did not know what I was getting into when I started; it just seemed to me that it might be a good thing to do. Since then I have fully embraced learning this art. In the course of learning taijichuan I started reading about Taoism. And now my curiosity has opened up to Taoist health practices and Traditional Chinese Medicine.

 

My dilemma is trying to find a credible, qualified teacher to bring me into basic Taoist practices. From my reading I think that maybe spending my life working my way through the 16 Element Neigung system would be part of my development. So, how do I find the right teacher? Living in rural North Idaho makes me geographically challenged. This means I will probably need to do workshops with a lot of solo practice in between. (Since I can only go to taijichuan classes twice a week, solo practice makes an especially large part of my learning that art.)

 

Regarding the healing arts, my approach, if it makes sense, would be to learn them in a binary fashion. That is to say, in learning to make myself healthy I can learn to help others and in learning to heal others I can learn to help myself. So how do I find the right teachers and establish for myself a "curriculum" to follow?

 

There is a huge amount of stuff about all of this on the internet, and it is overwhelming. I can't figure out where to start let alone figure out what is real and what is bullshit.

 

I'm a forty-something. Life is short and my ignorance is vast. So any useful advice that anybody has to offer would be most welcome. Or if somebody could direct me to a source of guidance that would be welcome, too.

 

Thank you.

 

-Mark-

Edited September 12, 2008 by Duifang

[markern]

I know very little about taiji, Qi Qong and chineese practices in general as my path has been mostly yogic and not so long. However, I will try to say what I can.

 

It is my impression from reading this forum that finding genuine and good teachers within these traditions is difficult. Finding one that can teach you lots of good health practices apears not to be that hard but if you want to use these practices for spiritual development that has the potential to lead you al the way to enlightenment that seems much more difficult. Because this is so difficult I would advice you to use Vipassana, either in the style of Goenka or preferably in the insight meditation tradition of Jack Kornfield and Joseph Goldstein, or Zen, as your main enlightenment path. The reason for that is that al these thre styles of meditation have thorough maps of al the stages towards enlightenment written in acessible books and there are numerous well recognized teachers within all these traditions that can lead you there. You don``t have to find one random Qi Qong teacher either but can attach yourself to a broad system of monastaries and schools that teach very similar and have several enligthened teachers. These are also styles of meditation that should be compatible with whatever energy practices you learn from the Chineese tradition. They are also mindfulness based traditions, which apears to be what you want, rather than fire paths moving energy around. As such they are also very safe compared to all the more uncertain stuff you can learn out there.

 

Mantak Chia and Michael Winn also have knowledge of a Taoist style of meditation/alchemy that leads all the way to enlightenment. I can say this with certainty because I know a budhist monk that first reached nirvana within budhist practices and was recognized by his teachers as having reached nirvana but then lost it and achived it again through Mantak Chias system. (The experince of nirvana was exactly the same within both styles of meditation but the paths were very different). However, Mantak Chias system has gotten a lot of criticism here and are lacking in several ways, especially with regards to mindfulness. It is also a lot less safe then Zen or Vipassana. Michael Winns system apears to be better and safer al though it is just an adaptation of Mantak Chias system. His style is more yin.

 

Because of your particular interest in health and healing my advice would be Spring forest Qi Qong. From what I have read here it apears to be extreemly powerfull, safe, and particulary geared towards health and healing. The guy who teaches it seems to have a very good reputation and apparently exceptional healing powers. The only problem apears to be that his style requires a lot of visualisation, which not al people like, and that is not so much geared towards enlightenment. However, as long as you have a style of meditation like Vipassana or Zen that is your main enlightenment practice, that would not be that much of a problem. This Qi Qong would benefit you energeticaly and in terms of concentration in ways that benefit your meditattion and your meditation would do the rest. After having a solid ground in this powerfull system you evetualy will have a good judgment about what other systems or teahchers could help you with a practice more geared towards enlightenment. THe main benefit you want from an energy practice if it is meant to support your development within a stilness type of meditation like Zen or Vipassana is deep concentration/awarenes. Once that is established to the highest degree as a result of energy work and meditation, your meditation takes care of the rest. This is opposed to a use of energy practices were your manipulation of energy is meant to do all of or most of the work to lead you towards enlightenment. As long as you practice something that cleanses and structures the body and gives great power of absorption you have the main things for supporting a stilness type of meditation.

 

 

My last advice would be to be very carefull with sexual practices. Retention over long periods of time seem to be difficult for many. I do not have a clear answer about how that should be practiced but from reading around it seems that Dr Linn (or what he is called) has the best system. Much safer and easier than Chias stuff. Furthermore it is my impression that there are two/three main things that balance out the enourmous energy you build up through retention. One is yin energy and witness conciousness, the other is heart energy/love. It apears to me that how much witness conciousness/stilness you have built in meditation and how much yin you have aquired by other means and how much work you have done with the heart/heart chakra energy determines how much of the very yang arouesed sexual energy you can integrate safely. The guy calling himself Trunk has a website that deals well with these things.

[orb]

I began learning taijchuan about four years ago in order to deal with chronic lower back pain. I did not know what I was getting into when I started; it just seemed to me that it might be a good thing to do. Since then I have fully embraced learning this art. In the course of learning taijichuan I started reading about Taoism. And now my curiosity has opened up to Taoist health practices and Traditional Chinese Medicine.

 

My dilemma is trying to find a credible, qualified teacher to bring me into basic Taoist practices. From my reading I think that maybe spending my life working my way through the 16 Element Neigung system would be part of my development. So, how do I find the right teacher? Living in rural North Idaho makes me geographically challenged. This means I will probably need to do workshops with a lot of solo practice in between. (Since I can only go to taijichuan classes twice a week, solo practice makes an especially large part of my learning that art.)

 

Regarding the healing arts, my approach, if it makes sense, would be to learn them in a binary fashion. That is to say, in learning to make myself healthy I can learn to help others and in learning to heal others I can learn to help myself. So how do I find the right teachers and establish for myself a "curriculum" to follow?

 

There is a huge amount of stuff about all of this on the internet, and it is overwhelming. I can't figure out where to start let alone figure out what is real and what is bullshit.

 

I'm a forty-something. Life is short and my ignorance is vast. So any useful advice that anybody has to offer would be most welcome. Or if somebody could direct me to a source of guidance that would be welcome, too.

 

Thank you.

 

-Mark-

 

 

Hey Mark if you look up there are a lot of people on this forum that actually teach a lot of good stuff. So you could arange smth with one of them that fits your orientation. I would suggest you PM them individually and then you could go and visit for a few day and learn smth that will keep you busy for a year and then go back get tested etc.

 

Take care

 

Orb

[Trunk]

There is a huge amount of stuff about all of this on the internet, and it is overwhelming. I can't figure out where to start let alone figure out what is real and what is bullshit.

www.alchemicaltaoism.com, sort of an archive of 'greatest hits' and conversation distillations from this cybercommunity over the the yrs. Should get you quickly up to speed.

[mantis]

if you have the money,

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/up-coming-event-t6647.html

 

i'm sure most people on this website would give an arm and a leg to study with the above teacher

[Duifang]

markern, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I intend to stay within the Taoist fold, so to speak, for the curriculum I want to develop. I have spent a lifetime sampling and learning from various sources and have a personal set of spiritual beliefs that have been born of that self-discovery. And when I started reading Lao Tzu and Zhuangzi I found a very deep resonance between what they were saying and the beliefs I had begun to develop on my own.

 

I am at an age where it is time to start distilling what I have learned on my own. To that end I have chosen Taoist philosophy as the framework or ladder to foster that distillation. In the mean time I have embraced Taijijuan, and intend next to delve more deeply into Qigong, concurrent with my sudy of Taijijuan. (Thanks for the heads-up on Spring Forest Qigong, btw.)

 

That still leaves me looking for the proper elements to develop a set of healing practices (particularly to heal others, too, not just myself). My instinct is to get into something that is directly hands-on; no implements or chemicals (ie. needles or herbs). I seem to have the hands of Fonzerelli, and I would like to see if that gift extends to animate objects, too.

 

I am sure that you are correct in your observation about the potential difficulties in finding good teachers. But I have the patience and the well-tuned b.s. meter to deal with that.

 

Also, I do not intend to chase spirituality. Chasing after something is the epitomy of desirefulness, and desirefulness impedes spiritual growth. I think if I mindfully follow the path I have set for myself (maybe with occasional side trips to enjoy the views) I will achieve satisfactory spiritual results.

 

 

Orb, finding teachers is one of the reasons I got on to this forum, but its going to take some screening and shaking to find them. And PM-ing them once I find them is a good idea. Thanks.

 

 

Trunk, I have already found www.alchemicaltaoism.com and bookmarked it. There's some good stuff there.

 

 

mantis, when I have the time and money, I hope to make a pilgrimage to China. Maybe I'll see you there.

 

-Mark-