For those of you still chasing "abilities"

[Patrick Brown]

No. The methods of sutra take eons (?) to reach enlightenment. You also have to take into account that next to that, it is not easy to reach enlightenment, for example practicing an hour or two a day is nothing. And then besides that, we are also in Kali Yuga, which means it is even more difficult.

Total rubbish.

[Pero]

Even modern Buddhism is failing to produce ascending beings (at least that I have heard about)

 

Yes, that's good, considering that "ascension" doesn't exist in Buddhism and is IMO one of those new age fluff terms. I think they got it of Stargate SG-1.

 

Total rubbish.

 

We can only wish that it would be.

[Patrick Brown]

We can only wish that it would be.

Now you're being silly. Ions chasing rainbows when toy are one? A trap within a trap within a trap...

 

What did I say, ah yes:

Total rubbish?

 

Now get naked bitch!!!!

 

[Pero]

Now you're being silly. Ions chasing rainbows when toy are one?

 

What?

[Patrick Brown]

What?

Can't you hear me?

 

 

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[Pero]

Can't you hear me?

 

Not really.

[Patrick Brown]

[Pero]

Throws Pero to the floor and fucks him/her so hard that after the bliss they stumble about like an idiot for dayz.

 

Methinks if you tried to do that you wouldn't be able to type anymore.

 

(edit: my 666th post hehe)

Edited September 15, 2008 by Pero

[Patrick Brown]

Methinks if you tried to do that you wouldn't be able to type anymore.

 

(edit: my 666th post hehe)

This must be love i.e. Beauty and the Beast!

 

If you're a sexy beast then all is cool if not then my venom may turn out to be poison in your mouth!!!

 

[h.uriahr]

I'm not sure that there's a problem with wanting abilities just so long as they arent the only reason you train. I'd be a bit worried if I met someone who trains for the soul purpose of insane chi projection, cavity presses, etc, just because it seems a bit on the aggressive side. Personally I'd like to let my body develop as far as it can along with my mind. I think itd be a bit scarey to have so much power that I could strike someone and have my chi flow so powerfully that they die from it because I'm still human and I still get angry and still get physical from time to time although I havent been in a fight for a LONG LONG TIME, the thought is still scarey. I dont want to kill anybody, ever. My main personal reason for training is because I want to freak out my family by living to be 150 yrs old and not ONE TIME VISIT THE DOCTOR!!! lol. Qigong is a lifestyle choice, IMO. I'm loving every minute of everyday now. I can thank a very special teacher and system for that.

[Vajrasattva]

Look at it this way "abilities" happen on their own. When they do thank the Creator and then move on and don't worry about them. If you need to use your "ability" let it be from a place where the creator is using you and your ability for what ever higher reason that maybe for the greater good of all beings.

 

Peace

 

Santiago

[seekeroftruth]

Hundun,

 

 

Ever since my childhood I have been a skeptic. To be honest with you I was atheist until 2004/05. I had always said if I experienced something paranormal only then would I believe it. Well I had to live up to that in December 05, but thats a story for another time.

 

 

 

I would be most grateful if you relate that story. I am a hardcore skeptic and want to have some hardcore experience to get rid of my doubt. If you relate your story, then I would be most thankful. Not immediately, but sometime in the recent future would be nice.

[Kundaolinyi]

I would be most grateful if you relate that story. I am a hardcore skeptic and want to have some hardcore experience to get rid of my doubt. If you relate your story, then I would be most thankful. Not immediately, but sometime in the recent future would be nice.

Ya, do tell

[Sahaj Nath]

Mwight, i do hope these words find you well.

 

 

You are correct that I might be wrong about everything, but that statement is more accurately applied to my philosophical stance as a freethinker. I don't really "Know" anything for certain, and I'm prepared to edit and revise my world view as more evidence and information comes to light.

 

while i have no way of holding you to this, i hope you mean it.

 

 

 

It disagrees with my "common sense" to accept the teachings of a person or system that can't produce abilities, or think that they could help me in my goal of liberation.

 

i think you have an extremely narrow definition of 'abilities' that keeps you from seeing some otherwise obvious mile markers among groups you may have overlooked. zazen, for instance, has a phenomenal track record of digging up and cleansing out our egoic baggage and bringing people to that pure condition which IS the enlightened state. i promise you that the profound liberation of THAT state of mind would extinguish all of your eagerness to check out of this world, and you would see everything regarding your life's purpose with completely new eyes. to be a deep ocean of expansive peace. to realize what it means that YOU are THAT which you resist.

 

 

I have scanned the markets, they are filled with millions of new age fluff teachers, courses, and "ancient" wisdom. 99.999% of what is on the market is bullshit. Thats the best word for it.

 

LOL! yeah, no argument there. but if you're 'scanning markets,' you're doing your research at the wrong libraries! you can't say the same about the old, unbroken traditions. you can't say the same about Tibetan Buddhism. or Rinzai Zen. veritable enlightenment factories, if you ask me.

 

 

Even modern Buddhism is failing to produce ascending beings (at least that I have heard about)

 

well, one reason you may not have 'heard' about them is that no one is sounding trumpets about it. another reason could be that your definition of abilities has led you to turn away from certain traditions before giving them a real look, so only a certain type of 'ascending being' (as you put it) impresses you, i.e., the type that display magical powers. and still another reason might be that you haven't really studied as deeply as you seem to believe.

 

there's no failure in rinzai zen. there's no failure in the dzogchen schools. there are also many christian contemplatives who are enlightened! and they ALL walk the earth today!

 

i think once you break through that first veil, and dissolve that deep egoic discomfort, that heaviness, that baggage, you'll be surprised by how much more ACCEPTING you will be of the enlightenment of the brothers and sisters who have walked the walk and share this world with you.

 

 

Looking for systems which use abilities as mile markers, or masters who have them serves a very important purpose to me, proving their legitimacy.

 

but proving their legitimacy of what? the only thing they prove is that their practices can give you 'special stuff.' for someone who is a skeptic by nature, you're making a tremendous leap from that to enlightenment.

 

there is NO ability more special or more fulfilling than to be able to move at will into that state of pure, expansive consciousness, and to live continuously with a core of deep inner peace. and the beauty is that, if you're sincere, you can achieve that far sooner than ascending all the rungs of the ladders of spiritual materialism.

 

i recall that story in the book Halfway up the Mountain of a professor who traveled to India in search of enlightenment, who came back to the States with only the knowledge of what enlightenment is not. he came across a village in India where a powerful psychic lived and had many followers. just by looking in your direction, this man could see your past as clearly as he could see you. he was worshiped by the people in the village. when this man saw the professor, he began to read into his past like an open book for all to see. the professor was amazed and believed that this man would be the one who would lead him to enlightenment. the man knew why the professor had come, and he requested to speak with him in private.

 

away from the eyes and ears of his followers, this man made a confession to the professor: he told the professor that, contrary to the belief of all the villagers who took his abilities as some kind of proof, he was not even close to the attainment of enlightenment. his psychic ability was an indication of nothing. he told the professor that his father and grandfather both had the gift, and that he discovered that he too had the same gift at a young age. his experience of the gift inspired him to become a seeker of deep wisdom, but his father encouraged him instead to use his gift to gain followers who would pay alms to him for his ability so he could financially support his entire family. he told the professor that he had been living as his father had encouraged him to live for the past 30 years, and that he was no closer to enlightenment than when he had first heard of it.

 

 

liberation is SO much closer than you think. and it's SO much easier than it seems. our need to complicate things, our need for elegant conceptual schemes, and our need for material validation, are the things we must give up.

 

 

feel free to question me. i have a question for you:

 

if you're sincere about your life's goal, what are you prepared to give up? what are you really prepared to give up? where is the resistance within you when you ask this of yourself deeply? THAT is where your time is better spent.

 

you want proof measured in REAL abilities? then watch how they LIVE.

 

 

 

one love.

Edited September 16, 2008 by Hundun

[Stigweard]

you want proof measured in REAL abilities? then watch how they LIVE.

 

Ahoy there matey ... your singing my tune now !

 

Tao is to be found in every plain old ordinary moment of life. The true 'proof' is someone who has achieved the five blessings:

 

1. Happiness

2. Longevity

3. Wealth (ho ho ... do I sense eyebrows being raised? Is not the earth bountiful? Are we not advised that: "Earth follows Heaven, Heaven follows Tao and Tao follows its own nature, therefore we should first aim to follow the Earth ourselves." It is the natural wealth taught to us by the Earth that I refer.)

4. Health, and

5. Natural Death (unfortunately it maybe a little late to learn personally from someone if you wait to see if they have achieved this blessing )

 

Abilities are quagmire filled with false turns, dead ends, and mirages. I was a professional magician for 7 years so I know how incredibly easy it is to fool and mislead people. And just like your story Hundun, I have met numerous psychics and clairvoyants whose abilities were not grounded in virtuous fulfillment.

[mjjbecker]

Look at it this way "abilities" happen on their own. When they do thank the Creator and then move on and don't worry about them. If you need to use your "ability" let it be from a place where the creator is using you and your ability for what ever higher reason that maybe for the greater good of all beings.

 

Peace

 

Santiago

 

What my brother said.

[mwight]

I would be most grateful if you relate that story. I am a hardcore skeptic and want to have some hardcore experience to get rid of my doubt. If you relate your story, then I would be most thankful. Not immediately, but sometime in the recent future would be nice.

 

 

I will try to keep this short, I don't want to hijack hundun's thread. I talked about this somewhere else here I cant remember where though. DO NOT under any circumstances attempt what I did.

 

For a background go to my personal journal forum and read my 6D theory of reality, and then imagine feeling and experiencing directly what I was describing there. Thats where that theory came from.

 

Around 2005 I read a study about the brainwaves of Buddhist Monks who had been meditating for 50+ years everyday, and their brainwaves instead of decreasing like you would assume, shot up way up from normal waking consciousness (13ish Hz) to gamma band level brainwaves (42Hz).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...6-2005Jan2.html

 

 

 

Gamma is usually ONLY seen during an AHA!, eureka, or Epiphany moment, even then only for a short time (fraction of a second). These monks brainwaves not only stayed at 42Hz, the amplitude was too high to measure, and both hemispheres were in perfect synchrony. It seemed as if 42 really was the answer (reference to the hitch hikers guide )

http://www.scientificblogging.com/news_rel..._we_have?full=1

http://www.diagnosticimaging.com/dinews/2004060101.shtml

 

 

So I used a program called brain wave generator to make a custom audio file of 42hz binaural beats for brainwave entrainment.

 

I meditated for a few hours each day using them.

 

Things really started to "click" I mean really "click"...

 

I had to keep a notebook with me to catch all the thousands of awesome ideas and thoughts flowing out of me like a fountain....

 

More came, faster, faster, faster.... It got where I couldn't sleep at all.

 

I eventually stopped using the cd's and meditating, I took sleeping pills, melatonin, sleepy time tea, sleep inducing binaural beats.

 

Nothing seemed to work, and thoughts just flowed ever faster.

 

Reality itself began to blur, the layers of reality began to become observable, it looked like an onion. Infinite parallel realities layered above and below our current one. Past and future were connected as a solid whole. I realized I existed in more than one at a time, and had multiple minds, and multiple bodies, and if I actively concentrated I could move my awareness into and out of them.

 

 

I know what that feels like

 

Read my 6D theory of reality for more information on what I experienced.

 

Now, I would have written this off as a hallucination, if it weren't for the fact that other people around me were able to experience residual side effects of my experience. Two of my better friends reported experiences almost identical to mine. Family members reported a lot of stranger happenings than that. I had 2 different neighbors commit suicide during this time, and I live in a rural area, so this is unusual.

 

After my brain came back together, there was simply no denying that what I experienced affected these other people in a concrete and tangible way. After that I renounced my atheist worldview, and became (more) interested in Taoism, and Buddhism.

Edited September 17, 2008 by mwight

[rain]

I will try to keep this short, I don't want to hijack hundun's thread. I talked about this somewhere else here I cant remember where though. DO NOT under any circumstances attempt what I did.

 

For a background go to my personal journal forum and read my 6D theory of reality, and then imagine feeling and experiencing directly what I was describing there. Thats where that theory came from.

 

Around 2005 I read a study about the brainwaves of Buddhist Monks who had been meditating for 50+ years everyday, and their brainwaves instead of decreasing like you would assume, shot up way up from normal waking consciousness (13ish Hz) to gamma band level brainwaves (42Hz).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...6-2005Jan2.html

Gamma is usually ONLY seen during an AHA!, eureka, or Epiphany moment, even then only for a short time (fraction of a second). These monks brainwaves not only stayed at 42Hz, the amplitude was too high to measure, and both hemispheres were in perfect synchrony. It seemed as if 42 really was the answer (reference to the hitch hikers guide )

http://www.scientificblogging.com/news_rel..._we_have?full=1

http://www.diagnosticimaging.com/dinews/2004060101.shtml

So I used a program called brain wave generator to make a custom audio file of 42hz binaural beats for brainwave entrainment.

 

I meditated for a few hours each day using them.

 

Things really started to "click" I mean really "click"...

 

I had to keep a notebook with me to catch all the thousands of awesome ideas and thoughts flowing out of me like a fountain....

 

More came, faster, faster, faster.... It got where I couldn't sleep at all.

 

I eventually stopped using the cd's and meditating, I took sleeping pills, melatonin, sleepy time tea, sleep inducing binaural beats.

 

Nothing seemed to work, and thoughts just flowed ever faster.

 

Reality itself began to blur, the layers of reality began to become observable, it looked like an onion. Infinite parallel realities layered above and below our current one. Past and future were connected as a solid whole. I realized I existed in more than one at a time, and had multiple minds, and multiple bodies, and if I actively concentrated I could move my awareness into and out of them.

 

 

I know what that feels like

 

Read my 6D theory of reality for more information on what I experienced.

 

Now, I would have written this off as a hallucination, if it weren't for the fact that other people around me were able to experience residual side effects of my experience. Two of my better friends reported experiences almost identical to mine. Family members reported a lot of stranger happenings than that. I had 2 different neighbors commit suicide during this time, and I live in a rural area, so this is unusual.

 

After my brain came back together, there was simply no denying that what I experienced affected these other people in a concrete and tangible way. After that I renounced my atheist worldview, and became (more) interested in Taoism, and Buddhism.

 

I don't doubt you, but why the suicides you think?

when it speeds up like this and you peek through the layers..

what is this reaity you think

you're dreaming

what core ideas cling to the centre of the tornado?

what is that quality in thy neighbor or thy fellow friend you think you lack?

what keeps you apart?

here

here

hear

me

[mwight]

rain,

 

to be honest I have no idea. The only thing I know for certain is that I really know nothing for certain.

 

The core idea was that we are all one mind, you and I and everyone else ARE the exact same being, having a different experience.

 

 

I don't doubt you, but why the suicides you think?

when it speeds up like this and you peek through the layers..

what is this reaity you think

you're dreaming

what core ideas cling to the centre of the tornado?

what is that quality in thy neighbor or thy fellow friend you think you lack?

what keeps you apart?

here

here

hear

me

Edited September 18, 2008 by mwight

[.broken.]

Nothing seemed to work, and thoughts just flowed ever faster.

 

Reality itself began to blur, the layers of reality began to become observable, it looked like an onion. Infinite parallel realities layered above and below our current one. Past and future were connected as a solid whole. I realized I existed in more than one at a time, and had multiple minds, and multiple bodies, and if I actively concentrated I could move my awareness into and out of them.

 

You and me both, brother. Mine was induced with Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds (which contain LSA) along with visualisation meditations. I discovered much in those 6 days. I decided to give up at one point - perhaps a bad idea as I ended up spiralling into a manic state.

 

The whole is a wonderful place to observe things from.

 

Yours, with respect,

James

[Spectrum]

Those who talk, don't know. Those who act, know.

 

I do

when it

what is this

you're dreaming

what core ideas cling

what is that quality

what keeps you

here

here

hear

me

Rain thank you for taking action when/where your heart leads you.

Edited September 18, 2008 by Spectrum

[rain]

rain,

 

to be honest I have no idea. The only thing I know for certain is that I really know nothing for certain.

 

The core idea was that we are all one mind, you and I and everyone else ARE the exact same being, having a different experience.

 

 

yes mwight. me neither. me too.

 

Those who talk, don't know. Those who act, know.

Rain thank you for taking action when/where your heart leads you.

 

 

Spectrum, I can't help being silly.

[seekeroftruth]

Thanks for the story Mwight. Most enlightening (a pun!)

 

Hopefully, we haven't completely hijacked this thread...

[wudangquan]

I put up a lengthy (and heavily cribbed!) article in response to this thread, and it kind of goes off on some other tangents, too.

 

It's at Yin Yang Pizza - Struggling for potential

 

Check it out if you are bored.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

bumpity this most helpful thread.