eating for qi

[wenwu]

hi there

 

back again

 

 

I have been playing around with diet stuff recently and asking around about different opinions on eating and qi.

 

firstly from myself, I think that eating right is important obviously, but most of that information comes to me through western sport science and western thinking, loads of carbs, fruit and veg. etc. which while good for working out and body beautiful may not be the best for qi

 

 

so i asked my bagua teacher, chinese man of 75, he told me that during practice that it doesn't really matter what you eat but before class i should stay away from beer and spicy food. and generally shouldn't eat too much. that only when/if my nei gong practice gets to a good level then i have to watch what i am eating more

 

Fair enough, Wang Shu Jin one of the best BGZ masters in the last few decades was really fat, but appaerntly had amazing abiltiy to channel his qi and as an old man was still fighting all comers.

 

however

 

also in my class is a buddhist practioner, she was telling me in her way of thinking people should stay away from meat cos it is more difficult to digest and uses alot of energy. and fruit and veg helps you body stay supple and light

 

other things that have come up........

 

you should stay away from meat anyway just beacuse of all the checmicals that farmers use

 

you can eat or drink or do anything, it is not the food but the addiction that takes away your energy

 

 

has anyone got more information on this?

 

 

thanks in advance

[Gerard]

Eat natural food as much as you can following the seasons and Yin & Yang principles, i.e. more fresh fruit and veggies in summer and steamed/warm food more in winter.

 

No meat because of karma of the animal you are eating and because it is too Yang.

 

No alcohol for same reason and because if messes up with the entire internal organ system and ultimately the mind. Same with other drugs and all pharmaceutical products.

 

No junk and heavily processed foods.

 

Eat as much as you need because Bagua is very demanding on your musculoskeletal system. Eat like a horse and sleep like a dog to recover from it.

 

Drink plenty of fresh purified water.

 

Stay away from polluted air.

 

Regulate sex practices, the less the better.

 

I think that covers most of this topic.

 

 

Note: if you were a pure Yogi then no much food will be needed as most of your chi absorption would come from air chi.

[hagar]

hi there

 

back again

I have been playing around with diet stuff recently and asking around about different opinions on eating and qi.

 

firstly from myself, I think that eating right is important obviously, but most of that information comes to me through western sport science and western thinking, loads of carbs, fruit and veg. etc. which while good for working out and body beautiful may not be the best for qi

so i asked my bagua teacher, chinese man of 75, he told me that during practice that it doesn't really matter what you eat but before class i should stay away from beer and spicy food. and generally shouldn't eat too much. that only when/if my nei gong practice gets to a good level then i have to watch what i am eating more

 

Fair enough, Wang Shu Jin one of the best BGZ masters in the last few decades was really fat, but appaerntly had amazing abiltiy to channel his qi and as an old man was still fighting all comers.

 

however

 

also in my class is a buddhist practioner, she was telling me in her way of thinking people should stay away from meat cos it is more difficult to digest and uses alot of energy. and fruit and veg helps you body stay supple and light

 

other things that have come up........

 

you should stay away from meat anyway just beacuse of all the checmicals that farmers use

 

you can eat or drink or do anything, it is not the food but the addiction that takes away your energy

has anyone got more information on this?

thanks in advance

 

In the system I practice, food is not a do or don't thing. It is more a place to channel your practice.

 

Basically this is how food is treated here:

 

a) Tune in. Focus on what food is most insubstantial.

Most food is neither all good or all bad. Focus on what the energetic effect in your system tells you when you are looking at it, sensing it. This is excellent practice in itself. Most food or drink is good for something. Take cream for example: Great for joints. Sparkling water is better than even the best well water in the world because it is more insubstantial. Wine is great for clearing out the small intestine, and thus for the mind and heart. Raw salads are not very good. Too cold and to yin. My master told me that alot of health-conscious women in his classes are hard to just stand next to because they drink too much bottled water and eat too much raw salads. It's like being next to a fridge.

 

Enjoy. Cherish the food you choose. Eating is a joy. There is so much wonderful stuff to taste. It's part of enjoying life. Eat, drink, relax. The whole eating experience should be one of lightness and ease. That includes your setting, your company, your subjects. Don't talk about terrorism, or argue. Talk lightly. Feast.

 

c) The nature and quality of each think you eat has a direct effect on the system. Coffee affects the kidneys (black), tomatoes the heart (red), Bread and potatoes the spleen and stomach (yellow), Ice cream goes to the bones, the joints, and even the lungs, and as you know creates flegm. (white)

 

If you get the basic ideas and principles, eating is not complicated, it's just an extension of practice.

 

my 2 euros

 

h

[sheng zhen]

my 2 euros

 

h

Those where valuble euros, Hagar!

 

If you tune in and experience the food with all senses, like in synaestesia - hear the taste, see the odor, feel the colour, etc. - the whole food experience is getting a lot richer and the body is able to use it a lot smarter.

 

It is much more important to be aware of how the food affects you then following the rules of what is good and bad food.

Edited September 12, 2008 by sheng zhen

[宁]

great system hagar, can you tell us more about it?

[hagar]

great system hagar, can you tell us more about it?

 

Not much.

 

That's the basic idea. Well, as far as I understand it. And that's not very much. And there's no real "system", only a form of qigong called Hua Gong. My master does not teach any retreats about this anymore.

Oh, I remember another thing: If you practice correctly, you can fast for as long as you like, and then you can start eating again straight away. No need to adapt.

 

One thing that is basic about the whole thing is doing digestion practice. This we do all the time after meals on retreats. The pivotal point is that if your digestion does not work, everything else breaks down. So we do alot of digestion.

 

h

[witch]

I think I know how to eat to increase jing, and then you can change it into something else.

[Yoda]

Hagar, great post as usual. Hadn't heard the pro-sparkling water thing before. Does your teacher say that straight up water is bad? Does slightly warming it or adding a drop of lemon to it help?

 

The two things I'm working on right now is eating less and blessing it first.

[hagar]

Hagar, great post as usual. Hadn't heard the pro-sparkling water thing before. Does your teacher say that straight up water is bad? Does slightly warming it or adding a drop of lemon to it help?

 

The two things I'm working on right now is eating less and blessing it first.

 

Right on Yoda. Heating up is good, and post-boiled is good, transformed, in a sense.

Adding lemon softens the energy of the water. Actually, one teacher I have who lives in Paris says that the food and coffee at fine restaurants in Paris taste worse than when he's sitting at a regular cafe in Oslo due to the better chi-quality of the grain and water here, and the fresh air. (I'm a patriot)

 

I "hua" all my food and drink if I remember to, so you're allready there with the blessing part.

 

Actually, 2 more things that you definately should avoid:

 

Ice in water: bad for kidneys

Microwave food: Bad, bad, bad. Destroys the information in the "Gu" or food-chi.

 

Hmm. what more...

 

Oh, focus on nourishing, essential and insubstatial:

Wild/free ranging meat, fish, birds: Much more nourishing

Wild goat milk, moose meat, wild rabbit has way more chi and jing than chicken, cow and regular milk.

Raffinated foods are often easier to digest, thus more insubstantial. White bread is actually better than the whole whole grain stuff for advanced practitioners, due to the fact that the whole grain bread is too impure and substantial.

 

The whole digestion process should use as little energy as possible, and give as much as possible.

 

Those where valuble euros, Hagar!

 

If you tune in and experience the food with all senses, like in synaestesia - hear the taste, see the odor, feel the colour, etc. - the whole food experience is getting a lot richer and the body is able to use it a lot smarter.

 

It is much more important to be aware of how the food affects you then following the rules of what is good and bad food.

 

This is so true. Basically sums it all up. (didn't see it before)

 

h

Edited September 12, 2008 by hagar

[Aetherous]

White bread is actually better than the whole whole grain stuff for advanced practitioners, due to the fact that the whole grain bread is too impure and substantial.

 

Although I'm not really an advanced practitioner...I agree 100%. Whole grains are only considered healthy because they can help in weight loss, but they have tons of negative side effects.

 

Adding some kind of protein to white bread helps lower the glycemic load...so white bread isn't "unhealthy" like many people assume. I mean: who eats white bread by itself?

 

The best kind is when you bake it yourself using higher quality flour (King Arthur)!

[gendao]

I think I know how to eat to increase jing, and then you can change it into something else.

How??? And please don't say swallowing cum...(not gonna work for us guys).

[Patrick Brown]

I think I know how to eat to increase jing, and then you can change it into something else.

 

You just love that ocean of yin don't-cha? Oh and cock!

 

[sheng zhen]

 

You just love that ocean of yin don't-cha? Oh and cock!

 

Yeah, everybody needs C-O-C-K(Clarity, Organization, Charm and Knowledge)

[guangping]

Bob Flaws and Blue Poppy Enterprises have the best books on diet and eating according to Traditional Chinese Medicine.

 

http://bluepoppy.com

[三江源]

So we do alot of digestion.

 

h

 

hello hagar.

 

how do you do a lot of digestion.

 

( heh. what a mad sounding question.)

 

 

my digestion is pooor. I have family background awash with ulcers and hiatus hernia and spastic colon.

 

I need to do a lot of digestion.

[yogabonheur]

Hagar,

 

why is sparkling water better? What kind of sparkling water? Natural mineral sparkling? Or any kind of sparkling water from the store?

 

Thanks.

[Spectrum]

RJ ate peaches IIRC

[Lighttime]

hi there

 

back again

I have been playing around with diet stuff recently and asking around about different opinions on eating and qi.

 

firstly from myself, I think that eating right is important obviously, but most of that information comes to me through western sport science and western thinking, loads of carbs, fruit and veg. etc. which while good for working out and body beautiful may not be the best for qi

so i asked my bagua teacher, chinese man of 75, he told me that during practice that it doesn't really matter what you eat but before class i should stay away from beer and spicy food. and generally shouldn't eat too much. that only when/if my nei gong practice gets to a good level then i have to watch what i am eating more

 

Fair enough, Wang Shu Jin one of the best BGZ masters in the last few decades was really fat, but appaerntly had amazing abiltiy to channel his qi and as an old man was still fighting all comers.

 

however

 

also in my class is a buddhist practioner, she was telling me in her way of thinking people should stay away from meat cos it is more difficult to digest and uses alot of energy. and fruit and veg helps you body stay supple and light

 

other things that have come up........

 

you should stay away from meat anyway just beacuse of all the checmicals that farmers use

 

you can eat or drink or do anything, it is not the food but the addiction that takes away your energy

has anyone got more information on this?

thanks in advance

 

 

 

Lighttime

post Sep 3 2008, 03:54 PM

Post #15

 

 

Tao Wizard

****

 

Group: The Tao Bums

Posts: 94

Joined: 1-June 08

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QUOTE(Trucker @ Aug 11 2008, 10:44 PM) *

 

Does anyone know exactly what kind of foods the ancient daoist would have eaten when undertaking a no grain diet? I know they only ate fruits and vegtables, but what kind. Also would they have eaten soy beans and green beans. I know most other beans and mucus forming foods would have been a no no. Can someone please shine some light on this for me. Thanks all for your time and I look foward to hearing from you all.

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=5761&hl=

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=5687&hl=

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=5703&hl=

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=5892&hl=

 

http://www.westonaprice.org/healthissues/bloodmoon.html

 

http://www.fibermenace.com/

 

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=s...amp;x=0&y=0

 

http://www.mgwater.com/rod17.shtml

 

http://www.beyondveg.com/cat/frank-talk/index.shtml

 

http://www.beyondveg.com/cat/research/index.shtml

 

http://www.beyondveg.com/

Edited November 2, 2008 by Lighttime

[wenwu]

hey

 

thanks guys

 

 

loads of info there that i'll try to work through

 

be in touch with some more questions, comments

 

[松永道]

 

c) The nature and quality of each think you eat has a direct effect on the system. Coffee affects the kidneys (black), tomatoes the heart (red), Bread and potatoes the spleen and stomach (yellow), Ice cream goes to the bones, the joints, and even the lungs, and as you know creates flegm. (white)

 

 

I heartily agree that attitude is important, but respectfully, eating only by color is terrible advice.

 

Coffee does affect the Kidneys - as a diuretic. More important is to examine it's bitter, slightly sweet flavor and warming property. Bitters tend to affect the Heart network, meaning many bitters are stimulants. They also affect the Small Intestines Network, making them purgatives. Bitters also often act as diuretics, and assist drying what Chinese Medicine refers to as Dampness. Coffee is a stimulant, purgative, and diuretic. It is indicated for individuals who consume rich, greasy, heavy diets - which tend to cause both the build up of stagnant food in the intestines, and general symptoms of Dampness (heaviness, lethargy, acne, etc). Excessive Coffee use will deplete the Kidneys/exhaust the adrenal glands. Simply put, Coffee, like most stimulants, imbalances the water (jing) / fire (qi) axis, pushing towards fire and exhausting water. Use in moderation.

 

And that's just one example.

 

Ice-cream similarly does no favors to the lungs, bones, or joints though it will create phlegm. And white bread, though true it will digest very quickly, it does so at the expense of delivering any actual nutrition. Additionally, the excessive consumption of white breads, ice-cream, sugars, sodas, and other simple starches and sweets cause an radical insulin spike, the sugar high, followed soon after by the sugar low. Over time, this dramatic insulin dose will can to Type II Diabetes insulin resistance.

 

Admittedly, whole grains can be hard to digest for someone who already has impaired digestion. But consumption of more simple starches, white breads, etc can further impair digestion, contributing to Dampness and Candida overgrowth in the intestinal tract. In these cases, cooking / stewing vegetables and whole grains with spices is indicated. Spices will stimulate digestion, and the complex carbohydrates will deliver long lasting energy.

 

Also, chewing your food does wonders for digestion. The process begins in your mouth after all. When eating, don't drink. You want to keep those salivary enzymes in your mouth. If you absolutely need some liquid, try tea, and then only taking small sips once in a while. Definitely don't drink cold beverages with your meals. You need your stomach to cook the food for a second time, don't douse the fires. And avoid cold drink while digesting too, especially if you consumed fats or oils. Drink too much cold water and it will cause those fats to congeal in your intestines making digestion drastically more difficult. You wouldn't believe some of the ancient sh*t found in some people's intestines.

 

That all said, eating should be a joy not a worry. I have taken to seeing foods as medicines, they're all good (the natural stuff anyways) if you know when to use them. Basically, eating a combination of the five flavors - sour, bitter, sweet, spicy, and salty - at every meal, and keeping things more bland than overly flavorful will give you more Qi than you'll know what to do with. An example meal: mixed veggies (bitter/sweet), garlic and onions (spicy), meat (salty/sweet) or beans/tofu (sweet), stir fried in Ghee or Olive Oil (sweet) and maybe a little soy sauce (salty), with a side of Sauerkraut (sour), Kimchi (spicy/sour) or something else fermented (sour).

 

Most people eat too much sweet and salty foods and not enough bitter and sour foods. Flavor should be your first guideline, not color. The five colors are used for medical diagnosis and internal seeing. There may however be some merit to eating food that looks like the organ you want to strengthen. IE broccoli for the lungs, walnuts for the brain, tomatoes for the heart (both have four chambers) etc. Amazingly enough, modern research backs up a lot of these folk claims.

[hagar]

I heartily agree that attitude is important, but respectfully, eating only by color is terrible advice.

 

Ofcourse, eating only by color is like driving only with your ears as quidance.

My point was that to highlight that in reality, food is food, and the abyss that is created between western "bad" food and the macrobiotic, vegan, TM-based or Ayurvedic diet systems (to mention a few) is unsound and not real. Food is food. Local food is better to eat than "healthy" food transported from the other side of the world.

Even western junk foods, or defined "no" foods like cream, ice cream have definite good sides, even energetically. Color is thus a better indicator that any diet regimen. Yet not by far a tell-all.

 

Coffee does affect the Kidneys - as a diuretic. More important is to examine it's bitter, slightly sweet flavor and warming property. Bitters tend to affect the Heart network, meaning many bitters are stimulants. They also affect the Small Intestines Network, making them purgatives. Bitters also often act as diuretics, and assist drying what Chinese Medicine refers to as Dampness. Coffee is a stimulant, purgative, and diuretic. It is indicated for individuals who consume rich, greasy, heavy diets - which tend to cause both the build up of stagnant food in the intestines, and general symptoms of Dampness (heaviness, lethargy, acne, etc). Excessive Coffee use will deplete the Kidneys/exhaust the adrenal glands. Simply put, Coffee, like most stimulants, imbalances the water (jing) / fire (qi) axis, pushing towards fire and exhausting water. Use in moderation.

 

No disagreement. Do use in moderation. Drains kidenys if overused. If you have reached a sufficient level of "Gu" transformation ability, you can transform the hot energy of the drink and not be affected by it's negative aspects.

With stimulants, and coffee in particular, it will support the rising Yang energy if ingested before the peak of Yang: noon. After noon, the effects you speak about will arise quicker due to the ascent of the yin energy.

There is much to be said about this drink, like what type of coffee you drink. Filter is not very good, instant even worse, but freshly grinded espresso that is made so that there is a delicious cream layer that forms on top is good for the skin. But my point was that we need to see food and drink in a non-dualistic way. There are no clear-cut NO or Yes foods, and relating to diet as narrowing down to foods that are "safe" or healty is a very unsound approach to eating. Better to relax about the whole thing, and enjoy with moderation

And that's just one example.

 

Ice-cream similarly does no favors to the lungs, bones, or joints though it will create phlegm. And white bread, though true it will digest very quickly, it does so at the expense of delivering any actual nutrition. Additionally, the excessive consumption of white breads, ice-cream, sugars, sodas, and other simple starches and sweets cause an radical insulin spike, the sugar high, followed soon after by the sugar low. Over time, this dramatic insulin dose will can to Type II Diabetes insulin resistance.

 

Disagree here. The information and chi of white bread is much less in conflict with the body than many whole grain breads, although not all. But the point is not the ingredients themselves but the energetic quality.

If you chew bread long enough it will become sweet. The sweetness of the bread is the sugars, and all bread has that quality, that essence. You have the entire Health movement behind you when you talk about simple starches, insulin etc. But I'm saying, forget about this stuff as it is not based on correct perception. With practice, you can relate, tune in and find out what these foods really do to you, and when you should eat them. Because no food, especially "Health food" should be eaten at any time. When I say cream of Ice cream is good for the joints, they really are, as they facilitate the softness of the ligaments and moistens the joint. They have other less good qualities as well, yet if eaten in moderation, there is benefit from enjoying an icecream. And that's the important point.

 

Admittedly, whole grains can be hard to digest for someone who already has impaired digestion. But consumption of more simple starches, white breads, etc can further impair digestion, contributing to Dampness and Candida overgrowth in the intestinal tract. In these cases, cooking / stewing vegetables and whole grains with spices is indicated. Spices will stimulate digestion, and the complex carbohydrates will deliver long lasting energy.

 

Also, chewing your food does wonders for digestion. The process begins in your mouth after all. When eating, don't drink. You want to keep those salivary enzymes in your mouth. If you absolutely need some liquid, try tea, and then only taking small sips once in a while. Definitely don't drink cold beverages with your meals. You need your stomach to cook the food for a second time, don't douse the fires. And avoid cold drink while digesting too, especially if you consumed fats or oils. Drink too much cold water and it will cause those fats to congeal in your intestines making digestion drastically more difficult. You wouldn't believe some of the ancient sh*t found in some people's intestines.

 

No agreement here.

All in line whith what I've said. Especially the part with the stomach having the "second cooker" role. Drinking cold beverages is generally not very good.

As to digestion in general, do digestion practice, and these problems will be solved, and often makes you able to distinguish what foods you actually need to what time as well.

 

That all said, eating should be a joy not a worry. I have taken to seeing foods as medicines, they're all good (the natural stuff anyways) if you know when to use them. Basically, eating a combination of the five flavors - sour, bitter, sweet, spicy, and salty - at every meal, and keeping things more bland than overly flavorful will give you more Qi than you'll know what to do with. An example meal: mixed veggies (bitter/sweet), garlic and onions (spicy), meat (salty/sweet) or beans/tofu (sweet), stir fried in Ghee or Olive Oil (sweet) and maybe a little soy sauce (salty), with a side of Sauerkraut (sour), Kimchi (spicy/sour) or something else fermented (sour).

 

Most people eat too much sweet and salty foods and not enough bitter and sour foods. Flavor should be your first guideline, not color. The five colors are used for medical diagnosis and internal seeing. There may however be some merit to eating food that looks like the organ you want to strengthen. IE broccoli for the lungs, walnuts for the brain, tomatoes for the heart (both have four chambers) etc. Amazingly enough, modern research backs up a lot of these folk claims.

 

Wholeheartedly agree.

Back to the color theory; in my experiece, I don't have to taste the food to feel the quality of it, and also what organ it affects to a lesser or greater degeree. In that sense, color is a better indicator than smell, taste, or even form. Yet I do agree that it should not be a basic component, as there are many green foods that are primarily affecting the liver, and many white foods that does not affect the lungs. Broccoli simultates the lungs indirectly, yet is primarily a liver toning food, as all dark green vegetables do. This is just my own experience, on my own body, and it may vary, yet i doubt it. Please explain your point further, as this is highlighting very different ways to go about this.

 

Great discussion. Thanks for feedback.

 

h

[松永道]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I still don't see eye to eye with you on white bread and ice-cream, but as my body tends towards dampness perhaps my 'laboratory' is partially at fault.

 

But here's a point we can wholeheartedly agree on, "Food is food. Local food is better to eat than "healthy" food transported from the other side of the world." This is the best advice from both an energetic and ecological perspective. And, "As above, so below." I believe the best advice MUST be the most beneficial to our individual microcosm and Earth's macrocosm simultaneously.

 

Eating locally and seasonally almost guarantees you'll get what you need, when you need it. Plus, if you have the means, sowing your own permaculture garden - basically a self-contained, self-renewing mini-ecosystem - will provide a bounty of fresh food with almost no maintenance once you get it up and going. Like resurrecting the Garden of Eden in your own backyard.

 

Anyways..

 

Hundun, any chance you could give us bums a lesson in Hua Gong?

[hagar]

hello hagar.

 

how do you do a lot of digestion.

 

( heh. what a mad sounding question.)

my digestion is pooor. I have family background awash with ulcers and hiatus hernia and spastic colon.

 

I need to do a lot of digestion.

 

Hi Cat

 

Apologies for not replying sooner.

 

I feel kind of restricted by not having any pics to show but here goes:

 

Digestion 101, Hua Gong style.

1. Stand, sit or lie down with your palms loosely infront of your upper stomach approx 10 - 15 cm away.

2. Tune in, let there be a connection between hand and stomach.

3. Start moving the fingers like they were massaging pasta, and at the same time feeling like your stomach and intestines are being internally massaged, straightened, heated.

After a while move down to the lower stomach.

4. There may be some or alot of burping and even gas, and that's normal.

My dog used to burp and fart when standing next to me while I did it.

 

 

yogabonheur:

I must say that I don't really know. Try any sparkling water, yet I guess the more pure the better, and not only distilled water. But focus on drinking warm, hot or post-boiled water like tea instead of alot of cold or worse, ice water even if it is zodium in it.

[Ian]

 

Digestion 101, Hua Gong style.

1. Stand, sit or lie down with your palms loosely infront of your upper stomach approx 10 - 15 cm away.

2. Tune in, let there be a connection between hand and stomach.

3. Start moving the fingers like they were massaging pasta, and at the same time feeling like your stomach and intestines are being internally massaged, straightened, heated.

After a while move down to the lower stomach.

4. There may be some or alot of burping and even gas, and that's normal.

My dog used to burp and fart when standing next to me while I did it.

 

Erm, sorry to be an idiot, but I've never massaged pasta. Are you just wiggling or is it smoother?

[hagar]

Erm, sorry to be an idiot, but I've never massaged pasta. Are you just wiggling or is it smoother?

 

Really? What probably I was trying to picture was the forks that you stir around in the pasta.

Think like you either are kind of massaging in a piano-playing style, or coaming the intestines from inside out.

 

Makes sense? probably not. I probably should advise you to take a class instead.

 

Erwann is coming to Oslo in October, if you're up to it...

 

h