Aetherous Posted February 24, 2009 Spectrum, Why do you seem so angry lately? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spectrum Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) Spectrum, Why do you seem so angry lately? It's not anger. It's passion. I have hurt feelings here. I'm trying to speak my heart and mind on these issues. I care about this stuff. It's a point of tangible dialog. These arts have changed my life. Irreversably. I love enough to compose a thoughtful reply to multiple responses, and then that one person that I actually care enough to give the benifit of doubt, to reach out to, I actually called you Cameron, you've heard my voice.... disrespects my entire communication by deleting all his posts? That is immature. If I was face to face w/ with you Cam would you treat me like that? You speak highly of sifu this or sifu that, but this is actually how you treat people. Actions speak louder than any of the words you've said here. These words remain. I think reviewing tape of yourself is a GREAT training tool. ...good form while remaining loose.... ...letting her rip without getting sloppy.... ...do both at full speed... ...a balance between spontaneous improv & "proper" form. You felt it! It's always a process of active participation in co-creation. Nice. A synchronistic balance between playing and being played. A two way conversation. Edited February 24, 2009 by Spectrum Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xenolith Posted February 24, 2009 This thread concerns a visually observable activity, movement of the human body. Therefore the visual medium for presenting variations of said is highly relevant. Thus Spectrum's request. To reveal something about one's self is to be truthful, helpful and genuine. To not reveal them is to not be those things. And to reveal things about one's self is the way of humility...and the hallmark of the Bodhisattva...the simultaneous expression of both wisdom and compassion. Those not restrained by teachers please be humble and reveal the variations in body movement that are meaningful to you. To teachers that restrain your students, release them so that they may exercise their humility. And grow. I know you know Spectrum, it's the trying that counts, not the outcome. Thanks for trying, may it be better met... xeno Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cameron Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) To who it may concern, I deleted my posts here because of my own doubts regarding representing my teachers feelings on this. If your making this into a personal thing that's your thing, not mine. I have respect for everyone on this thread. If you don't respect me and if you don't respect my decision to remove my posts here that is also your thing. I would still be open to meeting just about any of you in person. As it is my feeling that the medium..typing over the internet..is really the issue here more so than any real philosophical differences. And I beleive I still have your phone # Spectrum so if you would like to chat let me know and I can give you a call Edited February 24, 2009 by Cameron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted February 24, 2009 Xeno, This thread concerns a visually observable activity, movement of the human body. Therefore the visual medium for presenting variations of said is highly relevant. Thus Spectrum's request. I would love to be of service, but my practice isn't visual and isn't about the movement of the body. Seeing it would be totally irrelevant. It has nothing to do with wuji, sung, or anything anyone knows. Just a totally different thing. It's kind of the same as if you videotaped a zen monk attaining awakening...you would see someone sitting there, and it wouldn't mean anything. Their subjective experience is much more relevant...and that isn't visual. Saying this is sharing, and honest. It would be dishonest to post a video of my body moving around and say that's the practice. It's not. I don't see why anyone would want to watch that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spectrum Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) I would love to be of service, but my practice isn't visual and isn't about the movement of the body. The thread name is "spontaneous movement" Scotty. Your playing on the wrong court. We're playing two on two, and your shooting horse. We're playing texas hold em and your dealing solitare. <shrug> Its just not what the thread is about. Edited February 24, 2009 by Spectrum Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xenolith Posted February 24, 2009 It has nothing to do with...anything anyone knows. You're the only one!? Well c'mon, share a little sumthin' about it...please...a new thread would be best. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cameron Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) OK I am going to have to say something. Watching high level Kunlun practitioners(and I am so completely done listing anyones names. You know who they are) is pretty impressive to watch. Especially when they start really letting go it's quite incredible. But right from the beginning of doing the practice Chris said no filming at workshops people are opening up and they are in a sensitive place. Believe me, ask any of my friends who were sitting with me at the first Kunlun workshop I went to. Vortex, Smile, Trunk and other's who come here occasionally were all there. I was moving alot, I was basically bouncing up and down, I was covered with sweat and I was screaming That's just not what you guys are talking about. Kunlun practice is purification and it isn't for anyone but yourself. Scotty used a great comparison. Would be like filming someone breaking down sobbing or laughing while they were doing Zazen. Show me one enlightened Zen Master who has videos online of there students deepest emotional/spiritual breakthroughs. So, that's really it imo. There is a major distinction here some of you aren't being sensitive to. I am sorry, I am guessing your all really intelligent and caring people. I don't really know any of you on this thread except Lin and Scotty but I am willing to say you probably are that and not put you down. Edited February 24, 2009 by Cameron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spectrum Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) To who it may concern, I deleted my posts here because of my own doubts regarding representing my teachers feelings on this. If your making this into a personal thing that's your thing, not mine. I have respect for everyone on this thread. If you don't respect me and if you don't respect my decision to remove my posts here that is also your thing. I would still be open to meeting just about any of you in person. As it is my feeling that the medium..typing over the internet..is really the issue here more so than any real philosophical differences. And I beleive I still have your phone # Spectrum so if you would like to chat let me know and I can give you a call qouted first, answered later. OK I am going to have to say something. Watching high level Kunlun practioners(and I am so completely done listing anyones names. You know who they are) is pretty impressive to watch. Especially when they start really letting go it's quite incredible. But right from the beginning of doing the practice Chris said no filming at workshops people are opening up and they are in a sensitive place. Believe me, ask any of my friends who were sitting with me at the first Kunlun workshop I went to. Vortex, Smile, Trunk and other's who come here occasionally were all there. I was moving alot, I was basically bouncing up and down, I was covered with sweat and I was screaming That's just not what you guys are talking about. Kunlun practice is purification and it isn't for anyone but youself. Scotty used a great comparison. Would be like filming someone breaking down sobbing or laughing while they were doing Zazen. Show me one high level enlightened Zen Master who had videos online of there students deepest emotinal/spiritual breakthroughs. So, that's really it imo. There is a major distinction here some of you aren't being sensitive to. I am sorry, I am guessing your all really intellegent and caring people. I don't really know any of you on this thread except Lin and Scotty but I am willing to say you probably are that and not put you down. Edited February 24, 2009 by Spectrum Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cameron Posted February 24, 2009 I wrote another one after that! copy quick! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xenolith Posted February 24, 2009 I got it Cameron... Summary: makes no sense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cameron Posted February 24, 2009 I got it Cameron... Summary: makes no sense. Ohhhhhh your trying to make sense of all of this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spectrum Posted February 24, 2009 I think it's a breakthrough for Cam that he is aligning emotional movement w/ physical movement and spiritual breakthrough. That's usually finished in the first two years of Standing practice unless you stop practicing, but some people get addicted never break free from their own emo cycles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spectrum Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) I wrote another one after that! copy quick! Why does it seem like your trying to be antagonizing all the while saying that you mean no harm and you respect each and every person here? Why don't you just say your sorry? I guess you did. Do you remember reading this? I think I should point out I'm not posting my own "spiritual practice". You'd wouldn't see much. Just stillness. A twitch here or there, and more stillness, an adjustment, breathing, stillness, breathing stillness. We don't even do it in front of each other, it's personal. If you do, it's like you said, an ancient recognition of student teacher, master disciple, relationship, that has repeated itself for thousands of years. There have been various instances in which every single method of practice I have "learned" have melted into an improvisational processes that is a "working out" of blockages in my personal expression. After that things are more clear, feelings acute, motivation and it's working out more direct. Thought and action unified into closer relationship, perhaps even indistinguishable at times... Edited February 24, 2009 by Spectrum Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cameron Posted February 24, 2009 I am reminded of something Ken Cohen said "when you point a finger at someone look where the other fingers are pointing". I'll bow off this thread again. Hope it has a happy ending Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) The thread name is "spontaneous movement" Scotty. Your playing on the wrong court. We're playing two on two, and your shooting horse. We're playing texas hold em and your dealing solitare. <shrug> Its just not what the thread is about. Exactly my point. Kunlun is a totally different thing from moving around randomly and intuitively, like you do on your videos Spectrum. So is Shuichuan. And I suppose Stillness Movement as well. These are all inner and personal and have nothing to do with your idea of spontaneous movement. You were asking people to post their spontaneous experiences whether it be from Kunlun or another tradition, so I had to clear things up for you. Those things are not what this thread is about. This thread is about moving randomly and creatively...a good exercise for martial arts and stuff. But people should be clear about what the word 'spontaneous' is referring to. ... Also: I didn't mean to say that the zen master would be crying or something during the awakening. I actually pictured him just sitting there. I just meant to imply that the actual event is subjective, and whatever is happening externally is meaningless/just a distraction. ... I think I'll bow out too. Enough has been said, and apparently what I am talking about has nothing to do with this thread. Spectrum, there's a meanness coming from you for no good reason. I always thought you were a peaceful guy. I hope you find contentment again. Edited February 24, 2009 by Scotty Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spectrum Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) people should be clear about what the word 'spontaneous' is referring to. The creators of Kunlun define it as spontaneous chi gung. chi gung means breath work. spontaneous means random or uncooreographed. These are all inner and personal and have nothing to do with your idea of spontaneous movement. Seperation is an illusion you guys. It's sad your not stringing the pearls, but seperating us all into divisions and camps. Edited February 24, 2009 by Spectrum Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xenolith Posted February 24, 2009 seperation is an illusion you guys. it's sad your not stringing pearls, but seperating us all into divisions and camps. Word. And word. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spectrum Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) I hold my position steadily, for the preservation of aiming straight, having a steady hand, and releasing the shot. Maybe your not interested in traveling safely, but I am, so I've worked towards cultivate skills that work in a variety of situations, a variety of mediums, and above all else, internally and externally. If what you are learning is "the truth"... then it will translate through ALL mediums seemlessly. As it stands, you guys are drawing seperations where really there is none. You focusing on cleaning the hose out, while I'm saying you can play in the sprinkler, it's ok... really... and really, i'm not angry... or trying to be "mean"... just listen... I maintain that clearing cleaning practices have produced the same results outside the kunlun bubble for many many generations in a vareiety of different lineages. So show us the differences? Kunlun is no different in this regard, everyone has that shit go down if they practice seriously, and then it passes... it's not that its different, it's that it's the first course of a larger meal. Kunlun is a totally different thing from moving around randomly and intuitively, like you do on your videos Spectrum. I guess Kunlun is not spontaneous chi gung then. And theres plenty of video of me doing 1st section, very "form"... but now you guys are talking in circles. Kunlun is not about moving intuitively to release energetic blockages? Your arguing for the sake of it. Here... First is some pray play. Listen... spontaneous as kids. Free laughs, listen closely, you'll hear it, and there's no more arguing about it, you can hear the facts. Listen for the Roar. You can't deny that. LlROk7gPlLU I1OPghQnS9w 9ou291N8E9c Edited February 24, 2009 by Spectrum Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cameron Posted February 24, 2009 Hi Spectrum, I tried to call your cell and there is no answer. Let me know if your going to be available later tonight. Cam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spirit Ape Posted February 24, 2009 All movement is releasing emotions or gathering in that case just cause you scream does mean that is the only way to release emotions. Spectrum, Totally understand you after that Video with your Sigung, thanks!! Ape Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) Spectrum, Do you want me to keep posting in here? seperation is an illusion you guys. it's sad your not stringing pearls, but seperating us all into divisions and camps. Separation is not an illusion. For instance, a tree is different from a rock. If you think otherwise, then you're only fooling yourself with concepts of nondualism. If you truly believe you're right, try not eating food for the rest of your life, since it doesn't matter because to call something food is just an illusion of separation. So yeah, separation is real. Kunlun is totally different from moving around creatively. That's just the way it is. It's even written in the practice instructions: if you're consciously making movements such as raising your arms, this is wrong and is not the way to do the practice. If you disagree and think it can fit into your paradigm...then have you practiced it exclusively for months on end, to be able to know for sure? If you haven't, then you're only speculating. It took me about 6 months of daily practice of K1 and red phoenix (along with the other practices with standing 5 elements) for over an hour each day, to finally get a little insight into the practice. Just a little. If you haven't done that, then why are you assuming it's something you understand? I shouldn't even assume I understand it! In fact, I don't! But I do know that it's something totally different from what everyone thinks it is. I don't know how many different ways I can say the same thing. But I guess if the misunderstanding is still there, and the discussion is going okay, I'll continue trying to explain it. Edited February 24, 2009 by Scotty Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spectrum Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) Lets start here. You know. Way back, at the start. ML1OZCHixR0 And then ... people end up using sticks... it's crazy! ZV1fWtMAKRk You know what's more crazy? Not knowing what to do with a stick in your hand. SNlhICjmC-0 Then you learn how to work your schtick: JUhQieyg9v4 Then you learn your schtick is sharp: DXvx8HBMTYA&NR And finally, learning to fly, safely, with a sharp schtick: wUbRSD4KYkE Edited February 24, 2009 by Spectrum Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spirit Ape Posted February 24, 2009 LMAO @ the crying clip I guess that is why I cannot take Kunlun serious!!! Kind of like my job in mental health!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
