The Max Christensen Facts Not Fiction Thread.

[YMWong]

Is this disgareement fundamentally informed by certain authorities wanting to disassociate Taoism from anything to do with Shamanism, quite simply.. perhaps because it is considered 'superstitious' and 'unproductive'?

 

LOL

 

Daoism has been 'rejecting' shamanism since its inception 2,000 years ago.

Many sects has been 'corrected' during the last few hundred years and entered the orthodox path, many remained outside and continued their shamanic tradition which was NEVER part of Daoism.

 

YM

[三江源]

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Edited March 10, 2015 by 三江源

[宁]

I dunno, he kinda makes sense to me. I think it's true that it is the goal of the practice that makes the difference.

Between orthodox and unorthodox - although they sound so sectarian to us freelance daoists.

YMWong, please do make your points, at least you give us some things to ponder on.

 

L1

[Taomeow]

Is this disgareement fundamentally informed by certain authorities wanting to disassociate Taoism from anything to do with Shamanism, quite simply.. perhaps because it is considered 'superstitious' and 'unproductive'?

 

Definitely because of that, but not because it is considered "superstitious and unproductive" -- but because the destruction of shamanic traditions worldwide has long been, not marginal but central to a certain interesting agenda. To disassociate taoism from shamanism means to kill it, by severing it from its live nourishing source, cutting off its roots, drying up its spiritual essence, unplugging it from its divine current.

 

Original, genuine taoism is indistinguishable from shamanism, and its "new and improved" versions are indistinguishable from what the sages called degradation, what they referred to as "in the human world, tao has been destroyed." In fact, all "more recent," post-shamanic developments of taoism, the creation of multiple schools and sects, the absorption of Buddhist and Confucian ideation by many of them, etc., are in and of themselves the practical outcome of chronic dissatisfaction with this process of degradation -- ritual becoming empty, clergy becoming corrupt, scriptures becoming mindless drivel, lifestyles becoming "comfortably numb," conformist, etc.. Every new sect started out by formulating its dissatisfaction with this state of affairs and seeking to purify the way. Every next one did the same to the previous one. However, the ones that just stayed put, like the magical sects (with the exception of perhaps Kunlun which was heavily influenced by Tibetan Buddhism, in particular those of the Buddhist sects that practiced magic), didn't stay put because they were "unproductive" -- quite the opposite is true... They remained shamanic to the core precisely because they were productive to the max. They remained secretive precisely because they couldn't possibly survive any other way.

 

YM, please quit telling me that I don't have a clue. It simply isn't the case. I live my taoism. What do you do with yours? Poke people in the eye with your only mantra, "I know and you don't, I'm special and you aren't, I am the chosen one and you're the discarded one, I'm THE taoist and you're chopped liver," etc., this part I've seen... I'd be curious to find out if there's anything else it's good for, your kind of taoism as practiced by you. What else do you do with it?..

[YMWong]

YM, please quit telling me that I don't have a clue. It simply isn't the case. I live my taoism. What do you do with yours? Poke people in the eye with your only mantra, "I know and you don't, I'm special and you aren't, I am the chosen one and you're the discarded one, I'm THE taoist and you're chopped liver," etc., this part I've seen... I'd be curious to find out if there's anything else it's good for, your kind of taoism as practiced by you. What else do you do with it?..

 

TM,

 

I definitely know nothing but I humbly suggest you do more reading of chinese and Daoist history.

You'll see that what you think is my *plan to take over the world* is simply what Daoism has been doing, from its beginning, throughout chinese history.

 

What is not Daoist is certainly as good as what IS daoist but it is simply SOMETHING ELSE.

 

YM

[三江源]

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Edited March 10, 2015 by 三江源

[Taomeow]

Ken Cohen is ordained as a Taoist priest. When I talked to him about how taoist practises seem inevitably to lead one into shamanism, he immediately agreed and said the two were indistinguishable. We nodded and moved on to the next topic.

 

Thanks, Cat, that was priceless!

 

YM, why don't you tell Ken Cohen that because he thinks exactly the way I do and you don't, he's not real, not educated, not a taoist, and belongs in that dump of discarded wannabes with Eva Wong and the rest of us? Or better yet, why don't you answer my question instead of telling me what to do? I'll try again: what do you do with your taoism?

Edited September 18, 2008 by Taomeow

[Apech]

Ken Cohen is ordained as a Taoist priest. When I talked to him about how taoist practises seem inevitably to lead one into shamanism, he immediately agreed and said the two were indistinguishable. We nodded and moved on to the next topic.

 

anyway. I have some quite sharp pains in my right palm today after a week or so of getting icy cold hands during practise. I wonder what is going on.

 

Cat,

 

Could it be the approaching autumn equinox - energy changing phase etc. I sometimes get odd physical reactions and I think it is recorded that people get colds and things around this time because their bodies are adjusting.

[YMWong]

Thanks, Cat, that was priceless!

 

YM, why don't you tell Ken Cohen that because he thinks exactly the way I do and you don't, he's not real, not educated, not a taoist, and belongs in that dump of discarded wannabes with Eva Wong and the rest of us? Or better yet, why don't you answer my question instead of telling me what to do? I'll try again: what do you do with your taoism?

 

Dear TM,

 

I don't know Cohen and I am not used to comment on another comment reported by somebody else who told him that .... so unless a specific quotation from a written source is given there is not much to say.

Who ordained Cohen in what lineage, by the way ? I am not questioning what you say, don't worry, only asking as I don't know

 

With my practice I do what I like: I enjoy it

 

YM

[fiveelementtao]

Edited October 17, 2008 by fiveelementtao

[Spirit Ape]

LOL THE SECRET STUFF????

[Aetherous]

Why are you rolling your eyes, Ape?

 

If Max did train with Andrew Lum and was taught the real stuff, then he is probably a VERY powerful man.

 

Judging from my limited experience with the red phoenix practice, it seems Max was taught the real stuff!

[YMWong]

Shangching Pai founded by Wei Huacun is a different Maoshan! -- a mystical orthodox school Max has never made a peep about.

 

Taomeow,

 

just looking at the recent posts about 'Maoshan' master Lam I stumbled upon this message from Chris, who should know more about max then yourself I guess, which do not really agree with what you say above.

 

Any opinion ?

 

YM

 

Max spent 29 years with the Lum family to receive this.

 

Andrew Lum is well known in the Hawaiian and Chinese circles as a traditional Shang Ching (Mao Shan) Taoist.

Lum Dai Young is kneeling in center. Andrew Lum (Max's Sifu) is a young boy standing to the left of him.

Edited September 22, 2008 by YMWong

[fiveelementtao]

 

Hi Taomeow,

 

Taomeow,

 

just looking at the recent posts about 'Maoshan' master Lam I stumbled upon this message from Chris, who should know more about max then yourself I guess, which do not really agree with what you say above.

 

Any opinion ?

 

YM

Edited October 17, 2008 by fiveelementtao

[Cameron]

Yup, Chris is really the only person who can speak on this.

[Mantra68]

Lum is an amazing guy, I really like him and his teacher was incredibly gifted.

 

Max was the prodigy of theirs. He trained for 30 years with Lum. Make your own assumptions.

 

I have said all I care to say on this matter and I am quite finished with trying to "prove" anything more.

 

Listen to Fiveelementtao's advice on this one.

[gendao]

I watched him make a crowded auditorium of peoples body parts grow bigger or smaller in real time once.

 

It is all down to Gestalt and basic figure ground perception, but it's really cool and I used to do that on my university students all the time.

Like, literally and measurably? Or just perceptually?

I'll put a video up on youtube in a day or two to show how to do it.

 

I used to do it to my college students and it works on 99% of people, very well.

 

And I put it in the context of being a trick, which it is. But someone who is putting it in the context of super powers can make a big mess. Perception is reality.

Cool, please link it here when you do!

This is my worry also as not many understand the Lion as the 'good shepherd' and even less understand the sacrifice of the Snow Lion.

My friend had a dream about a lion, lately. Could you expound upon these spiritual stories and symbology here?

[wudangquan]

Like, literally and measurably? Or just perceptually?Cool, please link it here when you do!My friend had a dream about a lion, lately. Could you expound upon these spiritual stories and symbology here?

 

I'll go make the video right now.

 

And by the way - I mean perceptually, not literally.

 

Of course the argument can be made that perception is reality and all that.

[xenolith]

OK. We have the "head" group all assembled in one place. Good. For you guys, these arts will take a very looong time, because the head will only take you so far. It has a cap. However, if you drop your mind into the true brain, the heart, you will find all of the answers you seek. The heart is omniscient, but the head will just give you a headache.

 

I am sure you are earger to jump on that bandwagon at this point... anyway....

 

My "claims" are nothing more than stating the facts of the internal mechanics of Taoist practices. The micro-cosmic orbit for example when done properly and with the right understanding or feeling will produce certain results. What is the right understanding? Feeling your way through it. The same holds true for many other practices, but the scientific basis of those practices falls into the realm of quantum physics. If you MUST try to analyze these things from a scientific point of view then this is where you need to start looking.

 

Internally, these practices are ALL FEELING and INTENT. When you perform them correctly you will be doing it from a feeling state. When you "use" the energy it will be from your intent. When you connect to another person's nervous system it will be an agreement that takes place at a soul level. A merging beyond the physical.

 

What is at the center of the sun? What is responsible for all of that energy? A vacuum. You have the same inside of you.

 

We are not saying that you actually reach out to a black hole in outer space and suck it dry. But the concept is the same, it just takes place internally. You actually access the zero point of each dan tien.

 

If you don't understand that, then you are not qualified to refute the explanations given. If you can't do what someone like Max can do then you have no place to tell them they are wrong when they try to give you clues as to where to look for the correct understanding.

 

You guys are bright and curious but you miss the point more often than not because you seem so hellbent on trying to prove a thing is not a thing. It is what it is.

 

If you don't like what you hear from me, go find a good Maoshan teacher. After a few years of proving yourself, he can be the one to tell you to empty your cup, cut off your head and sit down and learn. You will also find out why students get whacked ON THE HEAD.

Parts of this post constitute the most credible information that you've ever posted...that I'm aware of anyway. The comment regarding limitations of the brain and necessity of use of the heart in spiritual advancement is particularly well made. This awareness comprises the most significant recommendation of that which you espouse as anything that I'm aware of you previously presenting. Emphasis on feeling and intent are similarly valuable comments. Suggest more of similar commentary to effect your and Max's stated objectives.

 

I'm not interested in discussing the mechanics of CCA attainment here but suffice it to say I've presented the details of said on this forum in a manner significantly more detailed than anything that you have regarding attainment of "bliss"...that is the objective of kunlun isn't it? I mention this because while I agree that CCA and bliss attainment are due to quantum mechanical processes at the atomic scale, they're facilitated by neuro-physical mechanics at the human scale...I've described these in detail on this forum...your refusal to do so continues to undermine your credibility to me. I'm probably relatively unique in this matter (and therefore probably inconsequential to your business plan...so you may not give a rats ass what I think...confirmation of inconsequentiality indeed!) in that I've mastered a mechanism for spiritual advancement that works for me and thus have no need, let alone interest in your mystery mechanism, but I do have an interest in truth and sincerity. And the manner of your presentation of your product significantly undermines association of these qualities to your product. IMO.

 

Parts of your post present the same condescending "you have no idea" and "if-then" ultimatum style rhetoric that your posts are typified by....theis sort of assertioning has become tiring and boring to me and has resulted in my disinclination to engage you. Perhaps you view this as a positive development...irrespective, understand that this sort of language is counter-productive for your and Max's stated objectives. Suggest that you present a more tolerant posture..."be well upon your path" is a kind response..."blessings" or even "live long and prosper" would be less dismissive and offensive than those presented in the latter portion of your post. I know you're good people Chris, and believe it or not, I'm trying to help you.

 

Be well upon your path, blessings and, yep, live long and prosper ,

 

Offered with Love.

 

xeno

[Spectrum]

What is at the center of the sun? What is responsible for all of that energy? A vacuum. You have the same inside of you.

 

...comprises the most significant recommendation of that which you espouse as anything that I'm aware of you previously presenting.

[xenolith]

May be. But not what I was referring to. Yin power baby.

[Spectrum]

33

32

32

 

Plucktherosewithoutgettingpricked

Without emptiness no thing forms

With nothing form less substance

 

fire & water

kettle & cup

tea & honey

Edited October 27, 2008 by Spectrum

[sifusufi]

Why are you rolling your eyes, Ape?

 

 

 

Judging from my limited experience with the red phoenix practice, it seems Max was taught the real stuff!

 

 

Add red phoenix with handstand Yoga asana, lmao!!! How about that scotty??? hehehe

 

Yeah, I like the Idea lets see what others think should be in there, I would like to add Sun Gazing as my choice this is a beautiful method found in all cultures and sometimes if not worshipped for a reason. Its power!

 

And connecting with the other 3 elements, air, water, earth as well ether!

 

Ape

 

I am super intrigued about Red Phoenix!

[joeblast]

I am super intrigued about Red Phoenix!

Its one of those that's gotta be taught in person

[zerostao]

Its one of those that's gotta be taught in person

is there a pre -requisite or co- requisite for red phoenix?

like, does one need K1 and/or K2 before seeking red phoenix?

is it compatable with taijiquan?