The Max Christensen Facts Not Fiction Thread.

[torus693]

When the night of the twelfth aeon fell,

And silence, the high tide of night, swallowed the hills,

The three earth-born gods, the Master Titans of life,

Appeared upon the mountains.

 

Rivers ran about their feet;

The mist floated across their breasts,

And their heads rose in majesty above the world.

Then they spoke, and like distant thunder

Their voices rolled over the plains.

Edited February 22, 2011 by torus693

[Sloppy Zhang]

What do you hope to be true about kunlun?

 

Nothing in particular. It's not about Kunlun. It's about the underlying mechanisms which take place regularly in spiritual communities, be they in real life or on the net. They occur time and time again. Some want proof, others don't care, others say it'll never happen, blah blah blah blah blah.

 

Meanwhile there are people out there making claims which could easily be provable if they were real.

 

Yesterday it was Max and Kunlun. Occasionally people dig up the old Kunlun horse to keep beating it to death. Tomorrow it will be something new.

 

And there probably won't be any shred of evidence to show for all the spiritual goings on, because, oh, that's right:

 

People who experience the higher scope of human potential feel no need to prove because it is already become real for them. Presentation in the form of story, or demonstration is a way to show possibility for those who wish to gain experience.

 

You do know that you could say the same thing about paranoid schizophrenics? They experience their own world with no need to prove it. They would rather convince people about it abstractly than actually proving it physically, because proving it physically might actually lead someone to a conclusion that doesn't support their own paranoia. So they might cherry pick some data, select a handful of experiences out of many, as evidence, but beyond that, you just won't get it, because you aren't in their heads, and they can't be bothered to take what's in their heads and spell it out for the rest of us....

 

So, yeah, I'm not really impressed by this post.

 

And Cat, well, Cat was the first one to drop the L-word ("logic"), but I'm not really impressed with the logic so far

[torus693]

the formless form has shape and dimension. it's form is flawless concentric involution. It's shape hidden in all things and described cryptically many time through out history.The path to the formless is outside the body. It is formed with the hands like the potters clay into a vessel. An empty vessel filled to over flowing.

Edited February 22, 2011 by torus693

[torus693]

Πάτερ ἡμῶν ὁ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς·

ἁγιασθήτω τὸ ὄνομά σου·

ἐλθέτω ἡ βασιλεία σου·

γενηθήτω τὸ θέλημά σου,·

ὡς ἐν οὐρανῷ καὶ ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς·

τὸν ἄρτον ἡμῶν τὸν ἐπιούσιον δὸς ἡμῖν σήμερον·

καὶ ἄφες ἡμῖν τὰ ὀφειλήματα ἡμῶν,

ὡς καὶ ἡμεῖς ἀφίεμεν τοῖς ὀφειλέταις ἡμῶν·

καὶ μὴ εἰσενέγκῃς ἡμᾶς εἰς πειρασμόν,

ἀλλὰ ῥῦσαι ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ τοῦ πονηροῦ.

[Ὅτι σοῦ ἐστιν ἡ βασιλεία καὶ ἡ δύναμις καὶ ἡ δόξα εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας. ἀμήν

Edited February 22, 2011 by torus693

[三江源]

.

Edited March 10, 2015 by 三江源

[Sloppy Zhang]

what community do you belong to?

 

Depends on what criteria you're using.

 

Ask a broad question, get a broad answer.

[Sloppy Zhang]

you don't appear to be comprehending obvious meaning?

 

I don't know who you're talking to.

 

It's it's to me, perhaps you should speak in more concrete language. Perhaps relate it to a pertinent example, like Max and Kunlun.

 

If you speak vaguely, people won't get your meaning, and they'll be stuck pondering why so many people follow those who do not act upon the words that they speak (like "hey, I can turn invisible, whoops, did you really think I'd do it in front of people? No, silly, I'll only do it in front of a bunch of students who already believe me and would support me even if I did NOTHING!")

[三江源]

.

Edited March 10, 2015 by 三江源

[torus693]

Edited February 22, 2011 by torus693

[Sloppy Zhang]

you commented on the above quote out of context and implied meaning

entirely different from obvious implied intent.

 

Actually I made it pretty clear that I was unsure as to what exactly it was you were trying to say.

 

I responded to one of your posts, then one of your later posts just had one line that said:

 

you don't appear to be comprehending obvious meaning?

 

There was no quote you were responding to, there was no direction, there was no lead in, there was no jumping off point, it was just that, hanging out there.

 

So, yeah, maybe you could be a little bit more obvious about what, exactly, you think is so obvious, and why you think it is so obvious.

 

You're making an awful lot of posts that are just one liners and philosophical point outs. I've quoted the sections of your posts that I'm referring to, it'd be nice if you did the same so we all know what we're responding to, and can trace back the conversation.

Edited February 14, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Sloppy Zhang]

I'm sure I read here once someone complaining that taoist texts shouldnt have been written using metaphor or imagery, why couldnt they be nice, literal, and explicit.... like an advertisement, presumably.

 

what kind of advertisements have you been watching? A lot of them are surprisingly NON literal, relying a lot on social conventions, construction, cues, shared meanings, and the like, to convey meaning to their target audience. Someone not a member of the target audience just isn't going to get it. Perhaps not unlike a taoist text, hmmm....

 

With what parts of yourself are you reading?

 

The parts that read.

[torus693]

v

Edited February 22, 2011 by torus693

[三江源]

.

Edited March 10, 2015 by 三江源

[Sloppy Zhang]

are you Taoist

 

I believe we've had a number of lengthy threads about what that actually means.

 

So what exactly is so clear? Why is it so clear? What were you referring to when you said the meaning was obvious? Do you have to be a taoist to understand? What is taoism? Are you a taoist?

 

I'm not really in the mood, nor do I have time for, mind games and word play. Like my mother always says, say what you mean, and mean what you say.

 

Out with it, or I'm gonna quit paying so much attention to this thread

Edited February 14, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Sloppy Zhang]

Yes, you're right, I expect. I dont know, I havent watched any TV adverts for many years, but I see them on the sides of buses and billboards and hear them in shops on radios, the subtlety of their attempts at non linearity are a veiled insult to ones intelligence. I'm sure you are able to take my point, even if it does not ring literally true for you.

 

Well it's pretty funny! I had a chat with some international students at my university over the super bowl ads.... right over their heads!

 

It's kinda funny how many cultural cues you rely on, but you don't realize it until you suddenly don't have them.

 

So imagine what a taoist text would be like (or anything, for that matter) if you were trying to make it veiled even to your target audience! Crazy! Especially if your thousands of years and significantly culturally removed!

[Lucky7Strikes]

You just don't get it! Belief is irrelevant!

Belief is everything. If you don't let your mind become flexible, you will not get anywhere with spiritual progress. You really won't progress in anything with rock head.

 

You offer nothing on this site except negative criticism and berating of other's spirituality. There's a difference between positive and passionate discussion and useless word tossing. It's not only in your words, but also between them. Your logical expositions are not constructive but backed by negative personal emotions .

 

Really, what are you doing here?

Edited February 14, 2011 by Lucky7Strikes

[Lucky7Strikes]

Nothing in particular. It's not about Kunlun. It's about the underlying mechanisms which take place regularly in spiritual communities...

Why don't you just go to a seminar or seek out a facilitator or just try the practice out?

Edited February 14, 2011 by Lucky7Strikes

[zerostao]

Anyone remember "Yellow Bamboo"? lol-

 

But in reality they failed and got choked-

 

and then there was this poor deluded man-

 

and of course this guy, who used to make tons of money on no-touch videos and seminars-

Dilman's big toe theory

[joeblast]

Its amusing that the only people all concerned are ones who have never done the practice for any substantial amount of time, never met Max and trained with him, ascribe Chris' marketing and moviemaking to him, think he came up with the DNA thing on his own, and most often dont even have the context for the stories they've heard re-re-re-re-retold.

 

picture of Kan...

 

and people wonder "why things are kept secret" - because if you open your mouth, you necessarily get exposed to a multitude of detractors that wont believe anything unless it can be measured by their multimeter.

 

 

To best question our understanding of reality, one does not ask "does it make sense" but rather "how would I know if I was wrong?"

 

 

My belief and reality doesnt require the skeptic's belief in order to be valid and real. That doesnt mean one tosses empirical reality, but you also have to take with some grace the fact that you will not ever have everything clearly and unambiguously explained and presented to you so that you may may a 110% completely informed decision with full clairvoyance.

 

It doesnt matter if one is taoist or not - the more pertinent question is, is your mind open or not? Do you already "know" the scope of "what you will believe in"?

[ralis]

Belief is everything. If you don't let your mind become flexible, you will not get anywhere with spiritual progress. You really won't progress in anything with rock head.

 

You offer nothing on this site except negative criticism and berating of other's spirituality. There's a difference between positive and passionate discussion and useless word tossing. It's not only in your words, but also between them. Your logical expositions are not constructive but backed by negative personal emotions .

 

Really, what are you doing here?

 

I guess some like you are unable to handle critiques of belief systems. You must be insecure or otherwise it would not bother you!

 

Belief in something fraudulent can be very powerful. I guess in your view one should believe and see if it is true? If it isn't true, then time and money are wasted. That is proceeding from an incorrect conclusion, a false assumption.

[ralis]

This thread is in regards to the facts that would support the claims Max has made. Why not just post real experiences as opposed to assumptions, empty beliefs, hearsay and what have you. What is wrong with asking for facts? Max is generally known as a coyote, a trickster. Indian is lore is full of stories around this archetype. I for one would rather be around someone who is straightforward and honest!

 

Has anyone here seen Max or Kan turn transparent, throw people around with empty force, had empty force applied to themselves or even manipulate someone with the famed red dragon technique?

 

Human primates have been led down dead end paths for thousands of years and the spiritual seekers of today are no less vulnerable. Why does that occur? A fascination of anything mysterious, parental projections onto the teacher or any number of psychological reasons? Fear perhaps? Wanting more control? Or, does the quest for power supersede all motives? I just wish spiritual seekers would be honest in their motives around what they are looking for.

 

I would like to believe in what I have seen in the photos of Kan and what Max has claimed. However, I will not be taken advantage of! I have seen way too many fraudulent expensive gurus and groups come through Santa Fe, which is one of the areas for spiritual ripoffs.

 

One example that I can think of is the cult that committed suicide in Rancho de Santa Fe outside San Diego a few years ago. They truly believed that the approaching comet was going to save them and they all drank the poison kool-aid while wrapped in their shrouds. That particular UFO cult started outside of Santa Fe. Where are they now? What did belief in the leaders propaganda serve them?

 

The need to belong to a social group of like minded people can be very powerful. The dynamics of such groups can be equally powerful in excluding the nonbelievers. That is what I see on this thread from several members. If I critique in order to find the facts around Max, I am seen as an outsider, a threat to cherished beliefs and one who brings negativity to the group. Those that have projected that on me are incorrect!

Edited February 14, 2011 by ralis

[Jetsun]

Hi ralis. It is apparent that you are expending much life force discussing this topic. If you don't want to be taken advantage of, why don't you simply stop, switch gears and find a practice and a teacher that resonates more gently with you? Something less powerful, for a slower awakening process? I recommend a heart-oriented practice with a very compassionate teacher. Maybe this will bring you some peace.

 

Best to you on your journey. _/\_

 

Hehe it's so hard to tell for me sometimes whether some posts are completely patronising and passive aggressive or whether they are just compassionate, the wonders of internet communication

[ralis]

Hi ralis. It is apparent that you are expending much life force discussing this topic. If you don't want to be taken advantage of, why don't you simply stop, switch gears and find a practice and a teacher that resonates more gently with you? Something less powerful, for a slower awakening process? I recommend a heart-oriented practice with a very compassionate teacher. Maybe this will bring you some peace.

 

Best to you on your journey. _/\_

 

You don"t know me or have any knowledge as to how much heart I have or even what I need! A less powerful practice? You proceed from an incorrect assumption! I have practiced and achieved many powerful practices including practicing Kunlun.

[thelerner]

I've read eye witness reports on Max's ability from reputable experienced people, from Sean, Sean Denty(which impressed me because he seemed to hate everyone), TaoMeow etc. I can't report any invisibility or DNA charts, but the man IMO has substantial juice. Beyond throwing Kan around (which I agree is dubious because he is a follower), Max's presence sent some into spasms , others trances. That's without really doing stuff to them. I've seen Dirk Oileibrandt (sp) have a similar effect on people in demos.

 

I'm not very energy sensitive, but even with eyes closed I could sense something from where he was. The seminar we did was in a martial art studio. During breaks he'd do a little bit of martial arts, nothing flashy just simple, minimal arm blocks. He had confidence, pose and seemed to have some real power even in small motion. I did a little a little cross handed defense with him and was impressed.

 

Is he a bull shitter? Don't know, its certainly possible, or he plays mind games or talks in metaphors.

 

The important thing to me is, did he have juice, was he a good teacher, did I leave with some solid techniques? Definitely.

[joeblast]

I wonder...where do you put your heart essence when you post on TaoBums?

apparently, its been taken advantage of one too many times...either that or TTBs is his second visit of the day after the puffington host!

 

"achieved," indeed