The Max Christensen Facts Not Fiction Thread.

[sifusufi]

The important thing to me is, did he have juice, was he a good teacher, did I leave with some solid techniques? Definitely.

 

Good God! In the phrasing of James Brown!

 

Finally... something I can wrap my head around and sing (sic) I mean sink my teeth into!

 

Thanks

 

ps. metaphor intended.. Heh!

[ralis]

I've read eye witness reports on Max's ability from people like reputable experienced people, from Sean, Sean Denty(which impressed me because he seemed to hate everyone), TaoMeow etc. I can't report any invisibility or DNA charts, but the man IMO has substantial juice. Beyond throwing Kan around (which I agree is dubious because he is a follower), Max's presence sent some into spasms , others trances. That's without really doing stuff to them. I've seen Dirk Oileibrandt (sp) have a similar effect on people in demos.

 

I'm not very energy sensitiyve, but even with eyes closed I could sense something from where he was. The seminar we did was in a martial art studio. During breaks he'd do a little bit of martial arts, nothing flashy just simple, minimal arm blocks. He had confidence, pose and seemed to have some real power even in small motion. I did a little a little cross handed defense with him and was impressed.

 

Is he a bull shitter? Don't know, its certainly possible, or he plays mind games or talks in metaphors.

 

The important thing to me is, did he have juice, was he a good teacher, did I leave with some solid techniques? Definitely.

 

Was this before the Kunlun days? He was teaching martial arts till about 6 years ago.

[Lucky7Strikes]

I guess some like you are unable to handle critiques of belief systems. You must be insecure or otherwise it would not bother you!

It's because I find your presence toxic.

 

I'm open to debate and discussion. You can see that in many previous threads.

 

This is about you, not about Max.

[Lucky7Strikes]

This thread is in regards to the facts that would support the claims Max has made. Why not just post real experiences as opposed to assumptions, empty beliefs, hearsay and what have you. What is wrong with asking for facts? Max is generally known as a coyote, a trickster. Indian is lore is full of stories around this archetype. I for one would rather be around someone who is straightforward and honest!

People have posted experiences here before. But I guess you missed that.

 

Human primates have been led down dead end paths for thousands of years and the spiritual seekers of today are no less vulnerable. Why does that occur? A fascination of anything mysterious, parental projections onto the teacher or any number of psychological reasons? Fear perhaps? Wanting more control? Or, does the quest for power supersede all motives? I just wish spiritual seekers would be honest in their motives around what they are looking for.

And they've also gone down wonderful paths of love and compassion. You just decided see only the darker aspect.

 

I would like to believe in what I have seen in the photos of Kan and what Max has claimed. However, I will not be taken advantage of! I have seen way too many fraudulent expensive gurus and groups come through Santa Fe, which is one of the areas for spiritual ripoffs.

 

One example that I can think of is the cult that committed suicide in Rancho de Santa Fe outside San Diego a few years ago. They truly believed that the approaching comet was going to save them and they all drank the poison kool-aid while wrapped in their shrouds. That particular UFO cult started outside of Santa Fe. Where are they now? What did belief in the leaders propaganda serve them?

Max doesn't ask people of anything, but offers techniques. 300 dollars for a 10 hour weekend is reasonable.

 

The need to belong to a social group of like minded people can be very powerful. The dynamics of such groups can be equally powerful in excluding the nonbelievers. That is what I see on this thread from several members. If I critique in order to find the facts around Max, I am seen as an outsider, a threat to cherished beliefs and one who brings negativity to the group. Those that have projected that on me are incorrect!

No you just do the practice and see that it is real, that it comes from within, that it has nothing to do with Max just as a tool sold by a merchant, if effective and useful, doesn't require the presence of the merchant anymore.

 

Stop spewing ignorant speculation and assumption.

[ralis]

People have posted experiences here before. But I guess you missed that.

 

 

And they've also gone down wonderful paths of love and compassion. You just decided see only the darker aspect.

 

 

Max doesn't ask people of anything, but offers techniques. 300 dollars for a 10 hour weekend is reasonable.

 

 

No you just do the practice and see that it is real, that it comes from within, that it has nothing to do with Max just as a tool sold by a merchant, if effective and useful, doesn't require the presence of the merchant anymore.

 

Stop spewing ignorant speculation and assumption.

 

Your last comment is really an insult!

[Astral_Anima]

and people wonder "why things are kept secret" - because if you open your mouth, you necessarily get exposed to a multitude of detractors that wont believe anything unless it can be measured by their multimeter.

 

Or because intelligent people will debunk it, lol. To my knowledge only Sifu Chang and Chunyi Lin have proven their abilities under "scientific scrutiny". The big "redlight" here is that Max doesn't seem to be able to affect people who aren't "tuned into his energy". This suggests that the "energy" is simply a subjective self-created illusion. People can be made to experience sum crazy things through some simple hypnosis. However when you can effect inanimate objects or objects without mind (ie lighting a lightbulb, eliminating a tumor) then there's a sound basis that the technique is an objective phenomena. If you had telekinesis and you were openly trying to teach others to do the same, trying to benefit society, wouldn't you first want to show them that it's possible? If people were doubting and you could easily show them under controlled conditions, wouldn't you show them, even have some fun doing it? Why be a stuck-up brat, if you have truth then why not explain it, share it and show it. Anyone can talk but it takes a true master to back up his/her words.

 

That being said I know Kunlun is a powerful system and I've had some very interesting experiences with it. It's very fun and for those looking to experience sum cool shyt I highly recommend it.

 

-Astral

[Sloppy Zhang]

Why don't you just go to a seminar or seek out a facilitator or just try the practice out?

 

it's not about any individual practice- we could just as easily be discussing John Chang or Wang Liping.

 

It's the mechanisms by which people conjure belief in someone, even if they have never seen them or done them, through an atmosphere of passive acceptance, that I am interested in observing, discussing, and ultimately hoping to break down.

 

Most people are unwilling to be cast in the role that, say, Ralis has been cast into. They don't want to ask questions because that means they have doubt, that they are controlled by the ego, and things like that.

 

Even if there is no actual basis beyond hunch and hearsay testimony (even from reliable people), people still really believe and take it seriously. Now believing in and of itself is not wrong. In fact, even something you have faith in can still be right, even though you can't prove it- but there is, and there should be, nothing wrong with asking why so many people believe in something/someone even though facts, which would be so easily provable and verifiable, are not being proven and verified.

 

And yet here we are, and here we have been for a while now!

 

People are going to have different criteria for belief/trust in something/someone. And for some people, that means that something not have glaring contradictions or loos ends. Is the person who they say they are? Did they do what they say they do? Are they teaching what they say they're teaching? Are they going back and rewriting history? Why are they doing it? Because they're a "coyote"? Everybody here does realize how to some people that DOESN'T speak "mystery" and "crazy wisdom", but instead screams, "con"?

 

For some, glaring contradictions an unproven statements do not scream "come closer", they scream "stay away".

 

People who think like this are not wrong. They are not controlled by the ego. They don't have a less chance of enlightenment. They just simply have to work through things a little bit different. Yet the degree of resistance to such a process is astounding, and to someone who thinks in such a process, it is only cause for more concern and apprehension!

 

Posts that seem to have "wise sayings" and generic spiritual advice don't do anything to help, they only muddy the waters and distort the message that someone going through a such a process is hoping to find. And yet, when a person raises their concerns over that, they are met with more posts about how they're never going to get it because of something or another

Edited February 14, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[joeblast]

Or because intelligent people will debunk it, lol. To my knowledge only Sifu Chang and Chunyi Lin have proven their abilities under "scientific scrutiny". The big "redlight" here is that Max doesn't seem to be able to affect people who aren't "tuned into his energy". This suggests that the "energy" is simply a subjective self-created illusion. People can be made to experience sum crazy things through some simple hypnosis. However when you can effect inanimate objects or objects without mind (ie lighting a lightbulb, eliminating a tumor) then there's a sound basis that the technique is an objective phenomena. If you had telekinesis and you were openly trying to teach others to do the same, trying to benefit society, wouldn't you first want to show them that it's possible? If people were doubting and you could easily show them under controlled conditions, wouldn't you show them, even have some fun doing it? Why be a stuck-up brat, if you have truth then why not explain it, share it and show it. Anyone can talk but it takes a true master to back up his/her words.

 

That being said I know Kunlun is a powerful system and I've had some very interesting experiences with it. It's very fun and for those looking to experience sum cool shyt I highly recommend it.

 

-Astral

To my knowledge

seem to be

This suggests

 

...

 

Sorry man, "this suggests" you have a misunderstanding over what you're taking issue with. You have a preconceived idea of a manifestation.

 

 

 

"open to his energy" - how about if you simply have a quasi-blocked chakra? what do you think happens in that case, say if someone's heart-center was rather blocked and he did his thing?

[thelerner]

Or because intelligent people will debunk it, lol. To my knowledge only Sifu Chang and Chunyi Lin have proven their abilities under "scientific scrutiny". The big "redlight" here is that Max doesn't seem to be able to affect people who aren't "tuned into his energy". This suggests that the "energy" is simply a subjective self-created illusion. People can be made to experience sum crazy things through some simple hypnosis. However when you can effect inanimate objects or objects without mind (ie lighting a lightbulb, eliminating a tumor) then there's a sound basis that the technique is an objective phenomena. If you had telekinesis and you were openly trying to teach others to do the same, trying to benefit society, wouldn't you first want to show them that it's possible? If people were doubting and you could easily show them under controlled conditions, wouldn't you show them, even have some fun doing it? Why be a stuck-up brat, if you have truth then why not explain it, share it and show it. Anyone can talk but it takes a true master to back up his/her words.

 

That being said I know Kunlun is a powerful system and I've had some very interesting experiences with it. It's very fun and for those looking to experience sum cool shyt I highly recommend it.

 

-Astral

 

I agree with this. Its nice to have a style that has research to back it up. Plus Max's site tended to light up most people's B.S detector with its extravagant claims, like 1 hour = years of other system (paraphrase). Based on his site I wouldn't have gone.

 

But 10 or 12 TB'ers had gone before me and reported (mostly) very positive results. They were people with experience who probably aren't easily cowed, had no particular incentive to plus it plus the relatively low cost $300 means you can be honest without feeling like a ripped off fool if you say it was poor.

 

If people I trust say a person is a teacher or healer of rare ability, it may make sense to roll the dice. Particularly if the roll doesn't cost too much.

 

Michael

[Astral_Anima]

To my knowledge

seem to be

This suggests

 

...

 

Sorry man, "this suggests" you have a misunderstanding over what you're taking issue with. You have a preconceived idea of a manifestation.

 

 

 

"open to his energy" - how about if you simply have a quasi-blocked chakra? what do you think happens in that case, say if someone's heart-center was rather blocked and he did his thing?

 

If my understanding is incorrect then please correct it. I don't claim to know things that I can't support with at least experience or observation, therefore I use such terms. Unless I am certain that what i'm saying is true I can't claim it to be (even though i'm sure I still do from time to time ) I have never met Max, although I didn't feel ANYTHING from the facilitator nor have I heard anything from that or any other facilitator I've communicated with.

 

What WOULD happen to someone with a "quasi" blocked chakra? I really don't know how it'd work, but i'd assume if he can control the percentage of his power (as shown in the "lama thunderbolt" film) that using less than 2 percent should only induce a small "shock" or repeatable sensation, whatever that may be. As much as I'd love to go visit him in person, the money just isn't on my side

 

-Astral

[Lucky7Strikes]

it's not about any individual practice...

If you want to take the intellectual road, there is nothing I see that's wrong with it. But you should go all the way and have confidence in your ability to reason in investigating reality.

 

I would check out contemplative traditions like vipassana, Nagarjuna, Shankara, jnana yoga, etc. well I know a lot of other esoteric traditions have them but I'm just listing ones I've delved into.

 

The yogic path like Kunlun requires the mind to let go into the process, because when one's awareness is entrapped in the mind shrouded by doubts and analysis, the energetics of the body simply cannot flow. It's like guru yoga, you trust your teacher, but in this case the technique, completely.

 

And yes, the downside to this is you may get conned, but it is also the quicker path than the scholarly one where you draw the entire map before setting foot. What we have today though is out ability to communicate so easily, so we can have faith in the testimonials of fellow practitioners who have approved of the practice. Like lerner said, I went to Kunlun seminar only because people like Taomeow, Trunk, Shawn, etc., genuine cultivators, went and gave positive feedback.

Edited February 14, 2011 by Lucky7Strikes

[Lucky7Strikes]

Your last comment is really an insult!

No, it's a fact!

[Sloppy Zhang]

What we have today though is out ability to communicate so easily, so we can have faith in the testimonials of fellow practitioners who have approved of the practice. Like lerner said, I went to Kunlun seminar only because people like Taomeow, Trunk, Shawn, etc., genuine cultivators, went and gave positive feedback.

 

Yes, it says quite a lot that so many respectable members have spoken highly of the practice.

 

But that doesn't really go very far in supporting any of the claims that have been made regarding the system or the person(s) involved in such a system.

 

And I prefer to acknowledge such a distinction.

Edited February 15, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[torus693]

v

Edited February 22, 2011 by torus693

[ralis]

what facts have you uncovered?

 

Please post them all so everyone may read them.

 

I would say the photos being scanned to show altering, or no would

make an excellent fact

 

I went through the whole thread last year on the photos and posted my thoughts. Why not read the entire thread.

Here is the thread.

 

My link

 

Here is the link to the Portland Kunlun school complete with a few photos. Scroll down the page.

 

 

My link

Edited February 15, 2011 by ralis

[ralis]

There are a few here who will do anything to slam or discredit me for asking astute questions. It is very possible that I am a very advanced practitioner, but you never know!

Edited February 15, 2011 by ralis

[Sloppy Zhang]

There are a few here who will do anything to slam or discredit me for asking astute questions. It is very possible that I am a very advanced practitioner, but you never know!

 

That does appear to be the case:

 

"When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him."

-- Jonathan Swift

 

Edited February 15, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[torus693]

v

Edited February 22, 2011 by torus693

[ralis]

I meant to have them scanned by a professional.

 

The quality of inquiry in this subject generates

a great amount of resistance. That resistance will

prevent open communication. Finding the proofs you

desire is not so hard to do. Being open and approachable

helps. Making demands does not.

 

In your view one should just lay prostate before Max and all is revealed? That will never happen!

[Sloppy Zhang]

I meant to have them scanned by a professional.

 

The quality of inquiry in this subject generates

a great amount of resistance. That resistance will

prevent open communication. Finding the proofs you

desire is not so hard to do. Being open and approachable

helps. Making demands does not.

 

It seems to me like people have taken broad, philosophical statements, things like "non action" to an extreme, and recoil against people who take action, and ask questions. As if anyone who isn't sitting silently is not going to learn anything.

 

And that's certainly one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it is with sayings such as, "God helps those who help themselves", and "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" (both of which were passed around my family).

 

The meaning? If you want something to happen, sometimes you have to DO something.

 

If nobody asked for authentication and the verifiability of various pieces of information, who would offer it? What incentive would anyone have to offer anything? NONE! Why? Because no one asks for it, because they'll believe you even WITHOUT any evidence.

 

Asking questions is not being immature, it is not demanding. There is nothing unreasonable about anything that Ralis has suggested with regards to verifying Max's authenticity. And, in my opinion, his actions should be mirrored by others in the interest of promoting an openness of knowledge, as well as an accountability for the masters. There is nothing wrong with this.

 

But this seems to make people uncomfortable, and they prefer to characterize such requests as "demands", often in a childish fashion, by characterizing them further as "gimme, gimme, i want it now!" requests, rather than what they really are- prompts for a disclosure of the truth.

Edited February 15, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[ralis]

I meant to have them scanned by a professional.

 

The quality of inquiry in this subject generates

a great amount of resistance. That resistance will

prevent open communication. Finding the proofs you

desire is not so hard to do. Being open and approachable

helps. Making demands does not.

 

Are you affiliated with Max in some way?

[Sloppy Zhang]

Why haven't I posted this before?

 

[ralis]

I would like to add that Max is claiming some type of Shamanistic knowledge that he received from Mongolian Shamans. Now he is giving trainings. I have seen this in Santa Fe over the years where someone is offering Shamanistic training for a hefty fee with no credentials. Now there are hundreds of women masquerading as Shamans. I guess the drum and rattle they carry proves it. If one carefully reads Eliade's work on Shamanism, the training is rigorous and it takes years to train for such a position. Further, most don't even begin to meet the specific requirements. NDE being one requirement. I just remembered that Max was struck by lightening and his third eye is fused, whatever that means. I have yet to see how a non physical chakra can be fused.

Edited February 15, 2011 by ralis

[Ulises]

I'll just say this: very excited,I went to a kunlun workshop, I bought the kunlun book....

I'd really want to say another thing, but I have to be honest, even if I'm ostracized from this forum (no more fear!). After careful consideration:fishy, fishy, fishy...or, being polite: extreme coyote style...

Edited February 15, 2011 by Ulises

[torus693]

v

Edited February 22, 2011 by torus693