The Max Christensen Facts Not Fiction Thread.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I had a thread a while back of certain bodily and energetic changes I went through. The bliss is nothing compared to your normal bodily capacity of feeling. You become aware to the point that you cannot sleep. You have enough energy to not eat for days without getting tired, just hydrating yourself is enough. You breathe differently, like at a rate of one-two breaths a minute. You see everything in a field of light, the non-dual awareness that arises extinguishes any feelings of self or other, sense of time and space dissolves. Everything is within the present, there is bliss in every movement. These experiences come and go, but what remains is a newer awareness of life, an effortless awareness.

 

That sounds wonderful. But not a lot that could be proven, and not a lot that you could claim is exclusive to Kunlun, or even of meditation/energy practices in general (athletes and divers breathe differently as well).

 

Not to take away anyone's accomplishments. I'm just trying to point out that if you're pitching a system that is supposed to be an earth shattering big deal.... well, earth shattering results would be neat.

 

Also Winpro has posted lengthy threads in the past about his experiences, some of which included heat from his hands dissolving his clothes.

 

So now we come full circle to the anecdotal evidence not being much good when trying to offer evidence. And a lot of people have gone back and deleted posts.

 

You have to be aware that practitioners DO NOT LIKE, at least for me, to write about experiences

 

Statements like this sadden me, because all too often (and I feel like now is one of those cases), it usually goes something like, "I don't like to talk about my experiences... okay, well if you push me, I'll say amazing things happen, you disappear, your clothes get removed, you don't have to eat, your breathing gets better, psychic vision opens up, and you are in a constant state of bliss... oh, prove it? Well you know, I don't like to talk about my practices."

 

People are, too often, all too willing to talk when you aren't asking for some evidence. As soon as you ask them to back up what they say, closed go the lips.

 

If you think this can be achieved with only a few years of practice you are expecting a bit too much.

 

I never specific any length of time. I am questioning whether these feats can be accomplished AT ALL. Is there any person AT ALL that can do those things and actually have them verified? Getting to the point where you can do that could take 90 seconds or 90 years. 90 lifetimes, even. It's not about how long you get there, it's where "there" even exists to get to!

 

Alchemical work takes years and lifetimes. 9 years of penetrating the void...Also everyone's progress is different because their energetic configurations and degree of attachments hinder them.

 

That's nice. So there is someone, at least one, who's done it? Did that someone have students? Did they have at least one student to do it?

 

It's like, if I ask if someone can run a marathon, and people just respond, "well it takes a lot of training." and I ask, "okay, but can someone run a marathon?" and people just say, "don't expect someone to be able to do it after one weekend of training." That doesn't answer the question. Again: it's not about the length of time, it's whether what we're considering is even possible, and of the people who can supposedly do it, what evidence do we have that they can actually do it?

 

So exactly what kind of "proof" do you demand? Do you want them to contact qualified scientists and ask them to examine them? Because Max does show MRI's of his brain and x rays of his body. According to him, he has gone through medical examination. Those pictures used to be up online until everyone started blabbering nonsense about them, calling the fakes, etc. No real constructive discussion there.

 

Apparently Max won't go to a hospital because his body is so super it'd be confiscated to be used for researched purposes.

 

The other sketchy thing is that if you take down an MRI, not only do you quell any random haters trash talking it, you also prevent legitimate third party sources from reviewing the MRI and actually seeing if it means what Max and company says it means.

 

That's the nasty thing about censorship.

 

I, for one, think it's odd that a bunch of people who are so at peace with themselves would take down valuable information just because people start "blabbering nonsense". Seems far more prudent to keep it open, and let the FACTS speak for themselves, as in, "this is legitimately saying what we say that it says, and it's been verified by so-and-so".

 

Yeah? And how the hell would you gather evidence that your body turned into light?

 

Well that depends if you can turn into it at will (as in, "you're ready any time" as I have heard described towards Max), or if it just randomly happens, and in either case, if you can keep coming back and sticking around (as I would imagine to be the case with the Golden Dragon Body, as I've heard it described on these forums). If it's the latter case, well, whoever sees it sees it. But again, if you could stick around, you could go around showing your shiny new body to people. You know, like, "hey, take a picture of me", "oh look, the photo is all white!" and go up to some scientists, and they're all like, "whoa, your body is all photons! High energy ones too! How are they maintaining their structure? Wow, how did you do that?"

 

And if you can do it at well, well, go down to your friendly neighborhood research laboratory, get yourself all set up with stuff to take your pulse, measure brain waves, monitor the types of waves that are around at the time, then -POOF- now you're light, and everyone's sitting there going "wtf??"

 

And then you pop back with your golden dragon body, and say, "lololololololol"

[Lucky7Strikes]

I responded to your remark in regards to guru yoga and your claim that I was clueless. You made an incorrect conclusion.

Guru yoga demands perfect surrender to the guru. Have you done that?

[Lucky7Strikes]

That sounds wonderful. But not a lot that could be proven, and not a lot that you could claim is exclusive to Kunlun, or even of meditation/energy practices in general (athletes and divers breathe differently as well).

 

Not to take away anyone's accomplishments. I'm just trying to point out that if you're pitching a system that is supposed to be an earth shattering big deal.... well, earth shattering results would be neat.

It's only been three, four years since the system has become public. Give it some time. The system is not earth shatteringly big deal, it just fits today's generation of practitioners. The rainbow body can be attained through non-dual insight meditation. There is a picture of Karmapa in such a state online.

 

Statements like this sadden me, because all too often (and I feel like now is one of those cases), it usually goes something like, "I don't like to talk about my experiences... okay, well if you push me, I'll say amazing things happen, you disappear, your clothes get removed, you don't have to eat, your breathing gets better, psychic vision opens up, and you are in a constant state of bliss... oh, prove it? Well you know, I don't like to talk about my practices."

 

People are, too often, all too willing to talk when you aren't asking for some evidence. As soon as you ask them to back up what they say, closed go the lips.

So I explained WHY people, at least for me, don't like to write about experiences. They are very difficult to formulate through words in the first place because they are very abstract. The entire phenomena of bliss awareness arises because of one's ungrasping mentality, of letting go, so asking someone in that state to describe it is actually detrimental to that experience itself. Hence people don't describe it or say it's indescribable.

 

I never specific any length of time. I am questioning whether these feats can be accomplished AT ALL. Is there any person AT ALL that can do those things and actually have them verified? Getting to the point where you can do that could take 90 seconds or 90 years. 90 lifetimes, even. It's not about how long you get there, it's where "there" even exists to get to!

I believe that Kan, Max, Diana are not liars or are out there to deceive people that they can turn into light. It simply isn't necessary because the practice already offers so much. I also believe in the Daoist anecdotes of immortals and the sufi mystics, and the Mahasiddha with their miracles. I believe in the non-inherence of reality and so my experience is open to limitless possibilities.

 

That's nice. So there is someone, at least one, who's done it? Did that someone have students? Did they have at least one student to do it?

 

It's like, if I ask if someone can run a marathon, and people just respond, "well it takes a lot of training." and I ask, "okay, but can someone run a marathon?" and people just say, "don't expect someone to be able to do it after one weekend of training." That doesn't answer the question. Again: it's not about the length of time, it's whether what we're considering is even possible, and of the people who can supposedly do it, what evidence do we have that they can actually do it?

Yes. Even on this very forum, Darin Hamel went through the alchemical process outlined in the secrets of the golden flower, a text written thousands of years ago. Read through Taomeow's personal experiences. Read through Winpro's, cats or any of the advanced practitioners on this site. Their experiences match what's been written in the ancient texts and those texts also speak about the supernatural, ascension, etc.

 

If your belief is materialist, as in you believe reality to be purely based on the reality of objects, then that will be the limits of your experience. Your mind must open to possibilities.

 

Apparently Max won't go to a hospital because his body is so super it'd be confiscated to be used for researched purposes.

 

The other sketchy thing is that if you take down an MRI, not only do you quell any random haters trash talking it, you also prevent legitimate third party sources from reviewing the MRI and actually seeing if it means what Max and company says it means.

 

That's the nasty thing about censorship.

You have to take those down when it becomes a topic of obsession. It's one thing to show them as sources of inspiration, but it can also conjure desires to become supernatural/superhuman from people attached to those states.

 

Well that depends if you can turn into it at will (as in, "you're ready any time" as I have heard described towards Max), or if it just randomly happens, and in either case, if you can keep coming back and sticking around (as I would imagine to be the case with the Golden Dragon Body, as I've heard it described on these forums). If it's the latter case, well, whoever sees it sees it. But again, if you could stick around, you could go around showing your shiny new body to people. You know, like, "hey, take a picture of me", "oh look, the photo is all white!" and go up to some scientists, and they're all like, "whoa, your body is all photons! High energy ones too! How are they maintaining their structure? Wow, how did you do that?"

 

And if you can do it at well, well, go down to your friendly neighborhood research laboratory, get yourself all set up with stuff to take your pulse, measure brain waves, monitor the types of waves that are around at the time, then -POOF- now you're light, and everyone's sitting there going "wtf??"

 

And then you pop back with your golden dragon body, and say, "lololololololol"

Right, and then you'll get media attention. People will become scared of you, some will worship you. Scientists will want to pick you apart and government will censor you.

 

Smart strategy. As I've said again and again, when your body begins to open, you are in direct contact with those around you. So if you are revealing yourself to the world, you better be ready to handle all the energetic attention bestowed on you. This is why yogins go into seclusion for practice.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Lucky7Strikes

[Astral_Anima]

In regards to time limit in which it's attained: Kan did it in about 7 years (though it seems he can't do it at will yet), and Max says it's achievable in this lifetime regardless of one's history or anything.

 

Hira Ratan Manek, a sungazer, had scientists analize his brain showing that his pineal gland was about 6xs(? maybe more) larger than the average man's. There were also scientific examinations of him taking no food, only some water, for somewhere around 400 days, another at i think 211 days done in PA.

 

Wang Liping was also reported to have walked though a wall by one of his students. fun fun.

 

I wouldn't understand why anyone wouldn't want to write about their experience. We even have online journals here for practitioners to do just that. There are books of accounts certain apprentices had with their masters.

 

The whole thing seems kinda silly. Chunyi Lin at least is willing to publically heal people and work with scientists to help them understand how it works. He's in cooperation with the Mayo Clinic from what I understand. AT least he can demonstrate the ability that his system was meant to develop...HEALING. And John Chang can demonstrate what level (3, 4 or 5 depending on which definition you use) Mo Pai says you achieve which is the ability to produce an electric "charge" from your body. Sifu Hata can apparently demonstrate a similar ability which his system is meant to develop. So why doesn't Max demonstrate some ability?

 

Then again I've never met the guy and I don't have to cash to go out and do so. If I did then I would have, but alas, the best I can do is to use logic, that forbidden tools we're all born with that hinders the spiritual path.

 

-Astral

[ralis]

I believe the MRI in question showed white spots in the brain. That phenomena is usually indicative of neurological damage or some type of neuro pathology. Not some type of advanced superman.

[Lucky7Strikes]

In regards to time limit in which it's attained: Kan did it in about 7 years (though it seems he can't do it at will yet), and Max says it's achievable in this lifetime regardless of one's history or anything.

 

Hira Ratan Manek, a sungazer, had scientists analize his brain showing that his pineal gland was about 6xs(? maybe more) larger than the average man's. There were also scientific examinations of him taking no food, only some water, for somewhere around 400 days, another at i think 211 days done in PA.

 

Wang Liping was also reported to have walked though a wall by one of his students. fun fun.

 

I wouldn't understand why anyone wouldn't want to write about their experience. We even have online journals here for practitioners to do just that. There are books of accounts certain apprentices had with their masters.

 

The whole thing seems kinda silly. Chunyi Lin at least is willing to publically heal people and work with scientists to help them understand how it works. He's in cooperation with the Mayo Clinic from what I understand. AT least he can demonstrate the ability that his system was meant to develop...HEALING. And John Chang can demonstrate what level (3, 4 or 5 depending on which definition you use) Mo Pai says you achieve which is the ability to produce an electric "charge" from your body. Sifu Hata can apparently demonstrate a similar ability which his system is meant to develop. So why doesn't Max demonstrate some ability?

 

Then again I've never met the guy and I don't have to cash to go out and do so. If I did then I would have, but alas, the best I can do is to use logic, that forbidden tools we're all born with that hinders the spiritual path.

 

-Astral

Healing, abilities, energetic manipulation is not the point of my practice nor do I think it is the point of Kunlun. I guess I need to clarify where I'm coming from. I use Kunlun to deepen non-dual emptiness insight, and objectifying experience during such cultivation is detrimental. There is a direct relation during practice between grasping/objectifying and letting go.

 

Kan was already an advanced practitioner before he met Max, and it still took him 7 years. The practice has been out for only a little over 3 years...people are not going to be walking through walls anytime soon .

Edited February 24, 2011 by Lucky7Strikes

[Sloppy Zhang]

They are very difficult to formulate through words in the first place because they are very abstract. The entire phenomena of bliss awareness arises because of one's ungrasping mentality, of letting go, so asking someone in that state to describe it is actually detrimental to that experience itself. Hence people don't describe it or say it's indescribable.

 

Bliss and feeling all great - subjective, hard to explain, hard to verify.

 

Turning invisible, dematerializing, having coffee cups fall through your hands - objective, easy to explain, easy to verify.

 

If your belief is materialist, as in you believe reality to be purely based on the reality of objects, then that will be the limits of your experience. Your mind must open to possibilities.

 

I don't need to initially believe in something for someone to provide me enough evidence for me to start believing.

 

And I think that goes for a lot of people (not all, mind you).

 

You have to take those down when it becomes a topic of obsession. It's one thing to show them as sources of inspiration, but it can also conjure desires to become supernatural/superhuman from people attached to those states.

 

All the more reason to keep them up, get them verified, and find out what they really mean.

 

People flip out over UFO photographs and sightings. But some photos can legitimately be connected to known flight patterns of aircraft, and dates and times can be matched. We can find out, through investigation, what photos contain unknown elements and which ones don't.

 

Though you say that the photos were taken down to prevent people from being attached to the desire for super abilities, those types of abilities are frequently described anyway in associated with the practice. So it's a bit... well, it's saying one thing, and doing another.

 

Again- removing photos like that, despite what the vocalized, intended meaning behind it was, also prevented knowledgeable third parties from accessing and examining those types of photos.

 

Right, and then you'll get media attention. People will become scared of you, some will worship you. Scientists will want to pick you apart and government will censor you.

 

How are any of these things problems for an immortal being of light???

 

Smart strategy. As I've said again and again, when your body begins to open, you are in direct contact with those around you. So if you are revealing yourself to the world, you better be ready to handle all the energetic attention bestowed on you. This is why yogins go into seclusion for practice.

 

And if you're an immortal being of light which is one with the infinite universal energy already, what are a few skeptics and hopefuls going to add?

 

 

Seriously, sometimes you gotta wonder about the rhetoric that's thrown about- one minute someone is an infinite being who has attained oneness with all that is, the next minute they are being concerned about pressure from the government and desperate fans. Are desperate fans and government spooks not included in universal energy?

Edited February 24, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Sloppy Zhang]

Healing, abilities, energetic manipulation is not the point of my practice nor do I think it is the point of Kunlun. I guess I need to clarify where I'm coming from. I use Kunlun to deepen non-dual emptiness insight, and objectifying experience during such cultivation is detrimental. There is a direct relation during practice between grasping/objectifying and letting go.

 

And the point of basketball isn't to get healthy- it's to put a ball in a ring. But you can examine those involved at a professional or college level and see they are great athletes, and that the sport can contribute to being healthy. It's something you can verify.

 

So, again, talk all you want about how the point of various practices isn't about abilities and blah blah blah, it doesn't change the fact that rumors/reports/stories/etc of those abilities ARE being passed around, do seem to be meant to be taken as fact, and, provided they were would, would be quite easy to verify. And yet they aren't... why? "Because that's not the point"?

 

That does not give claims which run counter to years of scientific research, observation, and testing, a pass to not be verified.

 

Kan was already an advanced practitioner before he met Max, and it still took him 7 years. The practice has been out for only a little over 3 years...people are not going to be walking through walls anytime soon .

 

It also takes a long time to train to run a marathon. But that doesn't stop people from doing it, from sharing the method, and from getting other people to do it.

 

And if Kan and Max and whoever can actually do it, then the length of time it took for them to be able to do it wouldn't matter, because here and how they CAN do it!

 

Professional athletes don't suddenly say they can't perform in front of people because it took them a long time to train to that level of physical fitness, that's just silly.

 

Seriously, try to apply the logic you apply to spiritual teachers to any other field, and honestly try to figure out if you can buy that story yourself.

[Astral_Anima]

I believe the MRI in question showed white spots in the brain. That phenomena is usually indicative of neurological damage or some type of neuro pathology. Not some type of advanced superman.

 

From a medical website:

I had an MRI of C-Spine and Brain and it showed one or two "white dots" above C-2, and 3 white dots on the left side of my brain. I have no idea what that means. The neurologist says, "probably MS"

 

 

ROFL

[torus693]

it takes no time and all time. It comes when all resource of mind has exhausted.

Many years of experience in heightened states/Temporary nirvanas in many cases is

a detriment if approach to that stage is time sensitive. The Mind attaches to all transient enlightened states adding a degree of polarized perspective to these. when the one energy that may enter the source relieving Tao is available a reordering of personal experiences into right perspective begins. How long this takes is a matter of perspective and choice (belief in advent). Tao as the father decreed this moment and as the mother very much desires this, which through out our lives is constantly seeking to arise. It's will, not our own determines the why and the where.. when is never conceived.

[-O-]

So why doesn't Max demonstrate some ability?

 

 

 

Many many moons ago (around '97) max, during a small lecture in his home ,"juggled" a few balls during a lecture... meaing he lifted and manipulated these balls in the air, with his mind. It caused such a stir and ruckus that he swore he would never do it again. Ruckus as in, students attaching too much, people seeking him out to see him do it, students and friends asking to see a demonstration. People calling him at all hours asking for interviews etc... The "demo" was not a show of power as much as demonstrating the point he was making during the lecture... apparently nobody got the point... the demonstration got in the way of the lesson. IMHO there is no doubt of his abilities.... and it is the one of the only system which can say they have a student which has or can attain what the teacher has... Kan... but can is not the first in this regard. During the Bonpo days there were one or two that had a "complete strike" re Thunderbreathing...

[torus693]

When the night of the twelfth aeon fell,

And silence, the high tide of night, swallowed the hills,

The three earth-born gods, the Master Titans of life,

Appeared upon the mountains.

 

Rivers ran about their feet;

The mist floated across their breasts,

And their heads rose in majesty above the world.

 

Then they spoke, and like distant thunder

Their voices rolled over the plains.

[Lucky7Strikes]

Bliss and feeling all great - subjective, hard to explain, hard to verify.

 

Turning invisible, vanishing, having coffee cups fall through your hands - objective, easy to explain, easy to verify.

Do you think that a person in that state feels the coffee cup as an objective reality?

 

I don't need to initially believe in something for someone to provide me enough evidence for me to start believing.

 

And I think that goes for a lot of people (not all, mind you).

Ok, then you can wait until a spiritual practitioner after having attained access to infinite realms and abilities comes to a local laboratory to prove that he is special and this somehow proves to humanity that people can turn into light. I don't doubt that this will happen in the future. So if you want to wait, I guess that's your choice.

 

All the more reason to keep them up, get them verified, and find out what they really mean.

 

People flip out over UFO photographs and sightings. But some photos can legitimately be connected to known flight patterns of aircraft, and dates and times can be matched. We can find out, through investigation, what photos contain unknown elements and which ones don't.

 

Though you say that the photos were taken down to prevent people from being attached to the desire for super abilities, those types of abilities are frequently described anyway in associated with the practice. So it's a bit... well, it's saying one thing, and doing another.

 

Again- removing photos like that, despite what the vocalized, intended meaning behind it was, also prevented knowledgeable third parties from accessing and examining those types of photos.

You know what, I guess you are right. I don't speak for the Kunlun people, I just through all that crap wasn't really constructive to my practice in anyway. The P.R. team that introduced Kunlun had their fair share of problems, so in a way their effort to draw attention had its pros and cons. But there's a difference between showing pictures and having in the book a list of possible side effects (which it also says you should never display or cling to).

 

BTW Max has more crazy photos of aliens and spirits he hasn't shown to the public. My sister jokes that he is a photoshop master .

 

How are any of these things problems for an immortal being of light???

 

And if you're an immortal being of light which is one with the infinite universal energy already, what are a few skeptics and hopefuls going to add?

So you think an immortal being of light can do anything he wishes and control everyone? :lol: In my perspective it's perfectly the opposite. You let go of all control, you let go your sense of self, you are in perfect union and harmony with the universe. According to Tibetan traditions, which the rainbow body is based on, the reason birth and creation takes place is ego clinging onto a self and self-entity. The release of that attachment brings one to a primordial creative form, which is the light body. That state is one of constant letting go, constant self-liberation, oneness with the naturalness of the Tao. The Mahasiddhas realize this perfection and the low level siddhis are a byproduct of such realization. When you are in such an open state, your being is open to all those around you, and I speak from experience that you can literally feel the pain of those who are emotionally drained as plainly as if someone touched you on the arm. So unless one has an incredible bodhisattva's dedication to connect to all beings, revealing yourself will take serious balls.

 

Seriously, sometimes you gotta wonder about the rhetoric that's thrown about- one minute someone is an infinite being who has attained oneness with all that is, the next minute they are being concerned about pressure from the government and desperate fans. Are desperate fans and government spooks not included in universal energy?

You are projecting assumptions of what it means to progress on the spiritual path.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Lucky7Strikes

[Lucky7Strikes]

And the point of basketball isn't to get healthy- it's to put a ball in a ring. But you can examine those involved at a professional or college level and see they are great athletes, and that the sport can contribute to being healthy. It's something you can verify.

 

So, again, talk all you want about how the point of various practices isn't about abilities and blah blah blah, it doesn't change the fact that rumors/reports/stories/etc of those abilities ARE being passed around, do seem to be meant to be taken as fact, and, provided they were would, would be quite easy to verify. And yet they aren't... why? "Because that's not the point"?

 

That does not give claims which run counter to years of scientific research, observation, and testing, a pass to not be verified.

Ok, now your just projecting your age old distress over people showcasing abilities...so -O- has posted an example below. Astral Anima's post actually had some nice examples of practitioners displaying abilities. The point that I made was that the purpose of Kunlun is not abilities means exactly that, demonstrations isn't the point. Do you think people after having attained these abilities will now just go around playing with them or display them as basketball players do their fit bodies?

 

You demand scientific verification, which requires one to subject one's life and body to an institution and possible media attention. That's asking for a lot of sacrifice.

 

It also takes a long time to train to run a marathon. But that doesn't stop people from doing it, from sharing the method, and from getting other people to do it.

 

And if Kan and Max and whoever can actually do it, then the length of time it took for them to be able to do it wouldn't matter, because here and how they CAN do it!

 

Professional athletes don't suddenly say they can't perform in front of people because it took them a long time to train to that level of physical fitness, that's just silly.

 

Seriously, try to apply the logic you apply to spiritual teachers to any other field, and honestly try to figure out if you can buy that story yourself.

It CAN be done. Ok? If you want to wait for humanity to catch up, go ahead.

 

Professional athlete and someone showing that he can suddenly make his body transparent are completely different type of exposure.

[Lucky7Strikes]

Many many moons ago (around '97) max, during a small lecture in his home ,"juggled" a few balls during a lecture... meaing he lifted and manipulated these balls in the air, with his mind. It caused such a stir and ruckus that he swore he would never do it again. Ruckus as in, students attaching too much, people seeking him out to see him do it, students and friends asking to see a demonstration. People calling him at all hours asking for interviews etc... The "demo" was not a show of power as much as demonstrating the point he was making during the lecture... apparently nobody got the point... the demonstration got in the way of the lesson. IMHO there is no doubt of his abilities.... and it is the one of the only system which can say they have a student which has or can attain what the teacher has... Kan... but can is not the first in this regard. During the Bonpo days there were one or two that had a "complete strike" re Thunderbreathing...

Cool!

[Immortal4life]

You become aware to the point that you cannot sleep.

 

 

Red Flag.

 

Personally....I would be attracted more to a system that helped you sleep better and deeper....as a opposed to one that makes you sleep less.

 

See it's a fine line. On the one hand, sure being healthy might mean you need a little bit less sleep. On the other hand sleep and rest is still very important and you need to be able to get to bed at a reasonable time.

 

I just like to sleep is all I'm really saying lol.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Immortal4life

[Sloppy Zhang]

Do you think that a person in that state feels the coffee cup as an objective reality?

 

Damn, let my guard down. This always happens. People playing with words rather than actually thinking about the point I'm trying to make.

 

Let's try this again- coffee cup falling through someone's dematerializing hand is something that most people do not experience in their most often experienced shared reality, which, while subjective, overlaps with so many other people's that it is reliable enough for them to make decisions based off of that.

 

Ok, then you can wait until a spiritual practitioner after having attained access to infinite realms and abilities comes to a local laboratory to prove that he is special and this somehow proves to humanity that people can turn into light. I don't doubt that this will happen in the future. So if you want to wait, I guess that's your choice.

 

I'm merely talking about how the process works. Someone has something to provide, they step forward, and meet the skeptics, if the evidence is good, skeptics learn something new. Haters keep hating, but those willing to look at the facts learn something new.

 

But there's a difference between showing pictures and having in the book a list of possible side effects (which it also says you should never display or cling to).

 

But see, it's like that old trick, when someone comes up to you and goes, "oh my gosh, guess what?" and you're like, "what?" and they're like, "oh, nevermind, don't worry about it." And you're like, "no, tell me."

 

They say they aren't going to tell you, but they drop a few lines to get you hooked. Sometimes they tell you something good, sometimes they're just digging the attention.

 

So you think an immortal being of light can do anything he wishes and control everyone?

 

And what part of that scenario made you think that I think an immortal being of light could, or would, control everybody?

 

I just find it odd that an immortal being of light would be afraid of some government spooks with scalpels.

[Sloppy Zhang]

you are in perfect union and harmony with the universe.

 

So mad scientists eager to dissect your corpse and haters wanting a target and desperate people looking for someone to attach to shouldn't bother you......

 

According to Tibetan traditions, which the rainbow body is based on, the reason birth and creation takes place is ego clinging onto a self and self-entity. The release of that attachment brings one to a primordial creative form, which is the light body. That state is one of constant letting go, constant self-liberation, oneness with the naturalness of the Tao. The Mahasiddhas realize this perfection and the low level siddhis are a byproduct of such realization. When you are in such an open state, your being is open to all those around you, and I speak from experience that you can literally feel the pain of those who are emotionally drained as plainly as if someone touched you on the arm. So unless one has an incredible bodhisattva's dedication to connect to all beings, revealing yourself will take serious balls.

 

Well Max apparently has that, which is such a wonder that we've gotten all the wonder anecdotal stories, and pictures of Kan disappearing.

 

You are projecting assumptions of what it means to progress on the spiritual path.

 

I think you're projecting on to me about what you think I'm projecting on to you....

 

The point that I made was that the purpose of Kunlun is not abilities means exactly that, demonstrations isn't the point.

 

And again, it's like the friend who comes up to you and says, "oh my gosh, guess what? I have a secret I'm going to tell you!!!!" and then when you express interesting they clam up.

 

That attitude + lack of actual action doesn't do much to bolster the case that anyone can do anything.

 

Do you think people after having attained these abilities will now just go around playing with them or display them as basketball players do their fit bodies?

 

You're right, in order to spread them to the world, it's much better to hole up somewhere.

 

You demand scientific verification, which requires one to subject one's life and body to an institution

 

No, it doesn't.

 

and possible media attention.

 

Someone claims to have the keys to enlightenment (and as an aside, not the main course, special abilities) and then shirks at some attention?

 

Again, the friend with the secret example.

 

It CAN be done.

 

And the basis for this?

 

Anecdotal testimony?

 

Pretty pictures?

 

An "open mind"?

 

Personal experience of bliss states that convince you there MUST be something more?

 

Professional athlete and someone showing that he can suddenly make his body transparent are completely different type of exposure.

 

You're right. One of them exists, and one doesn't.

 

Heheh, it works on all kinds of levels!

Edited February 24, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[Lucky7Strikes]

 

Red Flag.

 

Personally....I would be attracted more to a system that helped you sleep better and deeper....as a opposed to one that makes you sleep less.

 

See it's a fine line. On the one hand, sure being healthy might mean you need a little bit less sleep. On the other hand sleep and rest is still very important and you need to be able to get to bed at a reasonable time.

 

I just like to sleep is all I'm really saying lol.

If you are filled with Shen, you don't sleep. It's a natural alchemical progression from jing, chi, to shen...

[Sloppy Zhang]

If you are filled with Shen, you don't sleep. It's a natural alchemical progression from jing, chi, to shen...

 

There's a difference between "don't sleep and "can't sleep".

 

One difference, for instance, is like, "I am energized so don't sleep as much and I can function normally and happily", vs. "I cannot sleep due to my energy practices, and by the end of the next day, I feel kind of frazzled since I have not been able to sleep when I normally do."

 

I think that distinction is important.

[Lucky7Strikes]

So mad scientists eager to dissect your corpse and haters wanting a target and desperate people looking for someone to attach to shouldn't bother you......

Huh? Of course they should.

 

And again, it's like the friend who comes up to you and says, "oh my gosh, guess what? I have a secret I'm going to tell you!!!!" and then when you express interesting they clam up.

 

That attitude + lack of actual action doesn't do much to bolster the case that anyone can do anything.

Refer to -O-'s story. Some of your analogies aren't appropriate in this discussion.

 

You're right, in order to spread them to the world, it's much better to hole up somewhere.

 

No, it doesn't.

It does. People like you are waiting for some spiritual celebrity.

 

Someone claims to have the keys to enlightenment (and as an aside, not the main course, special abilities) and then shirks at some attention?

Your talking about national attention, not some attention. Let's say Max goes to a scientist and they see his golden dragon body, runs tests, publishes it. Proves to be true. Are you so naive to know what kind of public upheaveal this would cause?

 

And the basis for this?

 

Anecdotal testimony?

 

Pretty pictures?

 

An "open mind"?

 

Personal experience of bliss states that convince you there MUST be something more?

Yes, yes, and yes. As I said before, if you want perfect scientific evidence, go ahead. (By the way, the scientific world is not so definitive as you might believe, much of their findings rely on assumptions and indefinite conclusions.) Wait for them. As for me, I'm going to take the honest words of fellow practitioners, the alchemical texts, and teachings of past masters to be true before humanity finds a way to "measure" them.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Lucky7Strikes

[Lucky7Strikes]

There's a difference between "don't sleep and "can't sleep".

 

One difference, for instance, is like, "I am energized so don't sleep as much and I can function normally and happily", vs. "I cannot sleep due to my energy practices, and by the end of the next day, I feel kind of frazzled since I have not been able to sleep when I normally do."

 

I think that distinction is important.

I don't feel frazzled. I feel perfectly awake and blissful.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Huh? Of course they should.

 

Then perhaps one needs to work on becoming at peace with some more things.

 

Refer to -O-'s story. Some of your analogies aren't appropriate in this discussion.

 

-O-'s story is exactly the type of anecdotal evidence which I have talked about many times before- it doesn't really form any sort of solid evidence that one can use to form a case for or against.

 

And it still fits as an analogy. You hear a story about no-hands juggling, it piques your interest, but if you pursue it, they shut down on you. So you keep pursuing and pursuing. Sometimes this bears fruits, sometimes not. Not too unlike the friend with the "secret".

 

Once more, I encourage you to detach from the situation, and apply the same logic that you've put to Kunlun to other aspects of life, and see if, when presented with it in another context, you'd actually behave the same way.

 

People like you are waiting for some spiritual celebrity.

 

Assumptions and projections.

 

Your talking about national attention, not some attention. Let's say Max goes to a scientist and they see his golden dragon body, runs tests, publishes it. Proves to be true. Are you so naive to know what kind of public upheaveal this would cause?

 

Oh noes, people would actually find out about something that is FACTUAL? What? They might actually find a practice that WORKS and definitively gets people somewhere? That's obviously not what anyone wants at all!!!

 

(that was sarcasm, by the way)

 

Yes, yes, and yes. As I said before, if you want perfect scientific evidence, go ahead. (By the way, the scientific world is not so definitive as you might believe, much of their findings rely on assumptions and indefinite conclusions.)

 

Of course it's not. I never said it was. More assumptions and projections on your part.

 

Wait for them.

 

Assumptions and projections.

 

As for me, I'm going to take the honest words of fellow practitioners, the alchemical texts, and teachings of past masters to be true before humanity finds a way to "measure" them.

 

Seems like much of your findings rely on assumptions and indefinite conclusions.

 

I don't feel frazzled. I feel perfectly awake and blissful.

 

Wonderful. Good to know. I was worried after some of the wording in your previous post.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang

[gendao]

Many many moons ago (around '97) max, during a small lecture in his home ,"juggled" a few balls during a lecture... meaing he lifted and manipulated these balls in the air, with his mind. It caused such a stir and ruckus that he swore he would never do it again. Ruckus as in, students attaching too much, people seeking him out to see him do it, students and friends asking to see a demonstration. People calling him at all hours asking for interviews etc... The "demo" was not a show of power as much as demonstrating the point he was making during the lecture... apparently nobody got the point... the demonstration got in the way of the lesson. IMHO there is no doubt of his abilities.... and it is the one of the only system which can say they have a student which has or can attain what the teacher has... Kan... but can is not the first in this regard. During the Bonpo days there were one or two that had a "complete strike" re Thunderbreathing...

So, you personally witnessed this "juggling" act?

 

And what is a "complete strike" or "thunderbreathing?"

[Immortal4life]

A lot of people underestimate the importance of sleep. I remember a report I saw about researchers who had found that so many accidents were caused by lack of sleep. They found even a few hours under 8 could have major effects. The scariest thing, was that people couldn't notice the difference in themselves, and felt like they were just as aware with 5 or 6 hours as they were with 8. They weren't though.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Immortal4life