The Max Christensen Facts Not Fiction Thread.

[Lucky7Strikes]

Seems like much of your findings rely on assumptions and indefinite conclusions.

 

Wonderful. Good to know. I was worried after some of the wording in your previous post.

Yes, assumptions and indefinite conclusions are what shapes life.

 

This discussion isn't going anywhere, so I think we can stop. It's just getting annoying.

 

Keep on verifying I'm sure it will bring you wonders. .

 

I am experiencing life in an incredible way I didn't think was possible. I am much more free and joyful day today than I was since I've began practicing and it grows everyday. I see the road to ending suffering and Kunlun speeds up that process for me. It brings my inner conscious attachments out faster than mere contemplative meditations. My experiences, bodily and psychological, correlate with the mystical teachings I encounter in texts.

 

If you want to go through walls and interested in abilities and want verification in that stuff, whatever. If you want to sit in front of your laptop debating whether this claim is true or not before diving into it, ok. Think me deluded, because to you, yes, I am deluded by my own thoughts. To me, you are the one deluded. At the end of the day this is all it comes down to. But know that your path of life is basically a road to old age, suffering, and death: Life's a Bitch then you Die! :lol: Sorry, that last bit was a heavy assumption that you were an materialist, and you know, that's what science says and has "verified" so...

Edited February 24, 2011 by Lucky7Strikes

[Immortal4life]

So some of the things we have been hearing on this thread are....

 

Several people who felt they needed to stop the practice because the effects on their body were "too intense"

 

One person mentioned it brings out "maniacal laughing"

 

One person mentioned "cannot sleep"

 

Methods that cause involuntary movements and spasms

 

IS the picture I'm getting here how you see it?

[Lucky7Strikes]

So some of the things we have been hearing on this thread are....

 

Several people who felt they needed to stop the practice because the effects on their body were "too intense"

 

One person mentioned it brings out "maniacal laughing"

 

One person mentioned "cannot sleep"

 

Methods that cause involuntary movements and spasms

 

IS the picture I'm getting here how you see it?

Don't shape your opinions on a meditation practice through people's personal experiences. It's much more complicated than that. This is like saying people who practice shamata meditation are calm, so you think shamata meditation is just experiencing calmness, which isn't the correct way to put it.

[Astral_Anima]

So some of the things we have been hearing on this thread are....

 

Several people who felt they needed to stop the practice because the effects on their body were "too intense"

 

One person mentioned it brings out "maniacal laughing"

 

One person mentioned "cannot sleep"

 

Methods that cause involuntary movements and spasms

 

IS the picture I'm getting here how you see it?

 

I can vouche for the spasms and maniacal laughter. Add weird "dream"(were they just dreams?) experiences. I also had "spinal orgasms" fun fun. However stuff --especially the spasms-- stayed with me even after discontinuing the practice. It's not until recently switching to SFQ that my "symptoms" from Kunlun were relinquished. With Kunlun the effects I felt were the need to scream, squirm, cry, and generally thrash about. Unfortunately I didn't feel like scaring the shit out of people and don't know anywhere that I can go and do all that and not be bothered so...eh, just wasn't right. I may actually return to though, later. For now i'ma run the small universe for a bit

 

-Astral

Edited February 24, 2011 by Astral_Anima

[Lucky7Strikes]

I can go and do all that and not be bothered so...eh, just wasn't right. I may actually return to though, later. For now i'ma run the small universe for a bit

 

-Astral

Your practice becomes a dance after all that screaming, sweating and shaking. .

[Sloppy Zhang]

Keep on verifying I'm sure it will bring you wonders. .

 

...

 

to you, yes, I am deluded by my own thoughts. To me, you are the one deluded. At the end of the day this is all it comes down to. But know that your path of life is basically a road to old age, suffering, and death: Life's a Bitch then you Die! :lol: Sorry, that last bit was a heavy assumption that you were an materialist, and you know, that's what science says and has "verified" so...

 

Assumptions, projections, and an undying respect and understanding for other paths of life!

[Lucky7Strikes]

Assumptions, projections, and an undying respect and understanding for other paths of life!

[Astral_Anima]

Your practice becomes a dance after all that screaming, sweating and shaking. .

 

So I've heard. I look forward to experiencing it

[Astral_Anima]

Your practice becomes a dance after all that screaming, sweating and shaking. .

 

Although this poses the question...would that be "emotional release"? if so would that imply that emotions can be repressed and stored within the body?

 

What about the idea of happiness being a choice? What about the idea of emotions being passing? Don't we simply stop attaching to thoughts? Are emotions things that are stored up and released? Or are they something that we just end up attaching to and need to just stop attaching to? Could it be a combination of the two?

 

-Astral

Edited February 24, 2011 by Astral_Anima

[Lucky7Strikes]

Although this poses the question...would that be "emotional release"? if so would that imply that emotions can be repressed and stored within the body?

 

What about the idea of happiness being a choice? What about the idea of emotions being passing? Don't we simply stop attaching to thoughts? Are emotions things that are stored up and released? Or are they something that we just end up attaching to and need to just stop attaching to? Could it be a combination of the two?

 

-Astral

Emotional blockages are lodged in the body. The unconscious in the lower dantien, the mind's obsessiveness in the upper, something like that. You can literally feel them arising from certain parts of the body at times. If you want the details you can look through TCM on how each organ stores varying emotions, but having the mindset of letting go naturally achieves this.

 

Emotions released is pure free joy, you feel creative, you feel like anything is possible and that life is living through you. Happiness is to become choiceless and effortless in that state that's always available to you.

Edited February 24, 2011 by Lucky7Strikes

[Astral_Anima]

Emotional blockages are lodged in the body. The unconscious in the lower dantien, the mind's obsessiveness in the upper, something like that. You can literally feel them arising from certain parts of the body at times. If you want the details you can look through TCM on how each organ stores varying emotions, but having the mindset of letting go naturally achieves this.

 

Emotions released is pure free joy, you feel creative, you feel like anything is possible and that life is living through you. Happiness is to become choiceless and effortless in that state that's always available to you.

 

"Anything is possible" and "choiceless" don't exactly work together, lol. But interesting. I guess the next question is how are they "stored" and how does one prevent further storage?

Edited February 24, 2011 by Astral_Anima

[torus693]

they're marked by dampness/excess water -blocked fire -inflammations and generally occur

around nerve plexus which the body has millions of. They happen after injuries and are also a result of socialization where acceptable emotional responsiveness if filtered into social interaction and the rest 'held back' Some socialization form subconscious beliefs that may last for year and constantly repress emotional output. This is where fire blocked at nerve junction occurs.

[Astral_Anima]

they're marked by dampness/excess water -blocked fire -inflammations and generally occur

around nerve plexus which the body has millions of. They happen after injuries and are also a result of socialization where acceptable emotional responsiveness if filtered into social interaction and the rest 'held back' Some socialization form subconscious beliefs that may last for year and constantly repress emotional output. This is where fire blocked at nerve junction occurs.

 

But certainly expression isn't the only way to release these emotions... what other ways are there?

[torus693]

acts of compassion is an old stand by. Essentially a form of suffering that wears through social patterning by consistent intent that generally crosses the typified effect of those patterns when they show.

 

But, that is boring and so is standing in one spot for 2 hours. Some monks would bang their head on the floor till the linch pin of energy blockage broke free, but that is dangerous. Doing what we love and have the greatest feeling for works good and is not boring and maybe not too dangerous. Appreciation of everything or anything is a super quick path to a totally unencumbered emotional experience of life

But certainly expression isn't the only way to release these emotions... what other ways are there?

[torus693]

Great love works too, but who has time for that?

[torus693]

[sifusufi]

they're marked by dampness/excess water -blocked fire -inflammations and generally occur

around nerve plexus which the body has millions of. They happen after injuries and are also a result of socialization where acceptable emotional responsiveness if filtered into social interaction and the rest 'held back' Some socialization form subconscious beliefs that may last for year and constantly repress emotional output. This is where fire blocked at nerve junction occurs.

 

You are on fire tonite!

 

I better copy and paste before the the wisdom is erased by

 

v

 

[torus693]

there's more in v than in the whole world.

[-O-]

duplicate

 

 

Edited February 24, 2011 by -O-

[-O-]

duplicate

 

 

Edited February 24, 2011 by -O-

[-O-]

duplicate... not sure what happened???

 

 

Edited February 24, 2011 by -O-

[-O-]

-O-'s story is exactly the type of anecdotal evidence which I have talked about many times before- it doesn't really form any sort of solid evidence that one can use to form a case for or against.

 

And it still fits as an analogy. You hear a story about no-hands juggling, it piques your interest, but if you pursue it, they shut down on you. So you keep pursuing and pursuing. Sometimes this bears fruits, sometimes not. Not too unlike the friend with the "secret".

 

Once more, I encourage you to detach from the situation, and apply the same logic that you've put to Kunlun to other aspects of life, and see if, when presented with it in another context, you'd actually behave the same way.

 

 

 

Assumptions and projections.

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly right IMO. There are more to these stories and their ramifications then "just put up or shut up". I think most believe that if they were to witness or even experience these things first hand then any doubt of the possibility would dissolve.... it doesn't. Other questions emerge as one dives deeper into Mind's subtly and for that matter the Mind's complete disregard for "reality"... questions like - "did that really happen or am I just remembering it that way....?"

 

So this in mind - the anecdotal "evidence" and the goal of acquiring "direct experience" regarding powers serves no substantial purpose and is detrimental.

 

To talk about this stuff with someone who hasn't had experience with it teases their interest, it whets the appetite , sets expectation, encourages the abandonment of judgement skills which are already in place (like critical reasoning being surrendered for "belief is my only limitation" etc). It distracts the students focus from what the real goal should be.... which later has them focusing on events/experiences which are dead ends...

 

Anyone involved in Max's teachings know that at some point an instability will occur - the dark night - the facing your realities etc.... So...some students fly off into worlds of lizard kings and sorcerers and are labelled "instable" and having a hard time with their own projections.... however what has initially disarmed them and planted the contextual seed for their nonsense began and is propagated by Max in the first place - precisely with these stories.

 

When asked why he does it the response is to "help people be more accepting of their possibilities"... but I think what is under that is an assumption that if these stories are not alluded then people will not find as much significance to the teachings.... ity would be weighed with the same significance as the Tuesday night tai chi class at the local library... the lack of significance in their opinion could be seen as not "accepting" I guess.

 

Max and prol'ly allot of teachers are passionate about what they do... I mean in a childlike "look how f'n cool this is" sort of way. And this passion is quite relentless. IME you will not have many conversations with max which will not in some way come back to this.

 

This has a negative effect to the two extreme types of students - the ones that have issues and a propensity for fantasy and the one which share the depth of passion he does and are the most dedicated. For them these stories set the mind up for either escape into deeper fantasy or to latch onto him.... then when it goes south the student is blamed. The rest of the student body has a varying degree of either disbelief (a grain of salt) or a disinterest and are less affected... but at the end of the day the people that are hurt by or pissed off by max are there by his participation as well as their own. I have seen students take responsibility but I still have yet to see the teacher step up.

 

I believe the stories are told born of insecurity, born of a need for attention/affection. Insecurity in the context that people might not see just how wonderful and important this stuff really is.... maybe if they had a story or two about a rude awakening - or saw a photo of a cloud cloaked ship then their mind will open up... born of attention/affection well ask yourself as a friend of max (because you'r sfriends right? not teacher and student...) how many conversations have you had that didn't broach the subject... it's not many I bet and they are fun and interesting conversations. His enthusiasm is contagious.

 

I get the argument that if you make the claim then back it up.... but I also get the- sharing your own experience and the right to choose not to scramble up your life with groupies and detractors....

 

I don't get, not being able to see the impact that these claims have, and how irrelevant they are to goal of teaching. It serves no adequate purpose for a student until they are on the verge of or have begun to experience these things for themselves... prior to that there is no context in their experience to relate to the information in a constructive manner.

Edited February 24, 2011 by -O-

[-O-]

So, you personally witnessed this "juggling" act?

 

And what is a "complete strike" or "thunderbreathing?"

 

No but a stack of other things... the full strike is the same as the death experience he talks about, heart stops breathing stops... see the face of god and all that...

 

On that note.... shortly after completing TB myself I took some downtime from the practices and had just returned home from staying a week at Max's. I went through a series of strange experiences, nothing like going invisible (been there done that :-) re the colonel)... I kept reflecting on the TB and the few things that I thought could be done differently. Particularly regarding keeping awareness in the present moment rather than visualizing...

 

Anyway during this process there were moments where I felt I was in two moments of time and shifted between key moments. And at each shift specific information about mediation would become clear... even to this day, regardless of how my opinions regarding this may have changed - it is how I experienced it. At one point I remember standing at the fax machine sending a fax out to someone and at the same time being at the other end while the fax was being received six weeks prior.... and have the piece of paper in my hand when everything normalized.....

 

Anyway the end result was a different way of thunderbreathing, or that is how I thought of it. I sheepishly and apologetically sent it to Max (because who the hell am I to question 36,000 years of development)... anyway he responded saying "good homework" and forwarded a detailed instruction on a different, Buddhist method of which I had hammered down about 90% of it accurately... nothing was wrong per sa it was just a bit incomplete.... well hell what a great result right! I time shifted my way into the Awakening Vajra! Wrong!

There is still nothing usefully in any of the extraordinary experiences of that strange sequence of events.... what was useful was the information regarding the method - the rest was form given to incoming information.... the rest is, well, just story.

 

Coming to terms with that allowed me to really get grounded around the practices and to really get beyond the nonsense of all of these abilities. They are just that, nonsense, a distraction where the pursuit and interest in them causes more harm than good - where the information is lost in favour of the form.

 

I am nobody, but I can see how promoting these things to your students is not only pointless but is self defeating and harmful..... my question is why can't he?

Edited February 24, 2011 by -O-

[-O-]

acts of compassion is an old stand by. Essentially a form of suffering that wears through social patterning by consistent intent that generally crosses the typified effect of those patterns when they show.

 

But, that is boring and so is standing in one spot for 2 hours. Some monks would bang their head on the floor till the linch pin of energy blockage broke free, but that is dangerous. Doing what we love and have the greatest feeling for works good and is not boring and maybe not too dangerous. Appreciation of everything or anything is a super quick path to a totally unencumbered emotional experience of life

 

 

Nice to see you around again Win

[taotongue]

v

Edited March 11, 2011 by taotongue