Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

[sushil_yadav]

Edited September 15, 2008 by sushil_yadav

[sushil_yadav]

For several decades environmentalists have been warning modern society that ecosystems are getting destroyed - that consumerist lifestyle is not sustainable.

 

But modern society which was busy chasing progress, growth and development did not listen. It refused to believe there was any environmental crisis or problem. It said science and technology will always find a solution - if earth gets destroyed we will move on to another planet.

 

Impossible dreams were sold to people in the name of science and technology.

 

Moving to another planet would probably rank as the most impossible of all impossible things.

 

One space shuttle exploded during take off - another exploded on the return journey.

 

So far man has not been able to go beyond the moon. There is no other life sustaining ecosystem/ planet within the solar system. Outside the solar system planets and galaxies are millions of light years away - billions of light years away.

 

So when are we moving to a new home ?

 

Next year - or 5 years later ?

 

 

sushil_yadav

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StrategyTalk

Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

[thelerner]

A little too militant an argument for tastes, ie destroy shopping culture. Should we move to a peoples paradise like North Korea where we can live simply?

 

Its not that I disagree, its that the tone is raised too high. Moving in the direction of sustainability and lower foot prints is good. Once you shut off thinking lots of good things go out the window.

 

Using a computer and the internet, which are the height of consumer technology to rail against technology and consumerism is wonderfully ironic.

 

[sushil_yadav]

[Josh Young]

In general I agree with the first post, however perhaps if we adapted the argument for ants, and colonies for cities, specific aptitudes would rear their heads to show that we are acting according to nature itself and deserve no overt condemnation for doing so.

[sushil_yadav]

[johndoe2012]

Indeed, society holds activity as superior to non-activity. I would suggest slowing down, working max. 4 hours per day or similiar which would only provide means for buying food and shelter (and time for meditation! )

 

Essentially, nobody in mainstream societies are willing to stop and think for a while where the current trend is going. They want to increase consumerism to avoid having a meltdown in economy. Shortsightedness never works.

[metal dog]

I would say that making the change by moving from a large suburb plagued with urban sprawl to a rural farming area has done wonders for my mood.

 

The well-lit signs of shopping centers and "food" restaurants lining every inch of a major boulevard was beginning to hurt my eyes and blind my brain.

 

Now I have pitch black skies with stars that are not dimmed by artificial lighting on a grand scale.

 

The quite and solitude took some time getting used to and was a bit unsettling at first. Like pus oozing from a wound. But now things are quite healed.

[DalTheJigsaw123]

What an amazing thread/post/topic!

Thank you!

[TheWhiteRabbit]

edit:

 

Help others to be calm, spread peace not violence disruption and arguments.

Edited September 3, 2010 by TheWhiteRabbit

[Naturyl]

Sushil's a dedicated guy. I know him from another forum or two. I give him credit for working hard to undermine the idea that hard work is the answer to life's problems.

 

We definitely do need to rethink the whole concept and value system of "industrial society." Westerners today don't think it's possible to be "too industrious," but that's exactly what we are. We're working, producing, and consuming this world into an early grave. Lao-Tzu and Chuang-Tzu warned against it millenia ago but here we are anyway, with a world being exploited more and more aggressively and very few people willing to stop and think about it.

 

Sushil wants to throw some light on that and I support him.

[DrumR]

The first post has some elements of Buddhism, i.e. particularly that of pain/suffering, and the overall tone of the posting appears to be one of gloom and doom.

 

As a novice philosophical Taoist, however hap-hazard I may be upon that lonesome Way, I must state that upon this precept of pain/suffering, or what some may call "original sin," I am in philosophical dis-agreement.

 

Industry or Industry?

All to often concepts may be confused. Finding use in that which most may consider as useless, obtaining inner stillness through external activity(Chi Gong, Tai Chi), doing non doing(wei wu wei) and Feng Shui(manipulation of the person/environment) are concepts embraced to some greater or lesser degree by Taoist philosophy. Is being industrious in one's meditation then to be considered as the "evil" that is being painted of industry, in general, in the OP?

 

It is hoped that the reader does not mis understand that when I have spoken of Buddhism that I am of a position that is in dis-agreement of many of the Buddhist philosophies or precepts. I choose merely point out to others that Buddhism is not my primary Way.

Edited January 13, 2011 by DrumR

[sushil_yadav]

[thelerner]

Should we all try to live like Americans - 5% of world population consuming 40% of world resources?

 

 

The collapse has already happened for millions of other species. Most of them have been decimated.

 

Very soon it will be the turn of man to go.

 

Chill . Follow your own advice. Find a cave, live off the land. Don't even think of reproducing. Nothing wrong with that. But be aware its incredibly arrogant to tell other people how they should live (note I'm telling you to live by your creed, away from evil tech).

 

Ever since we jumped out of trees there have been doom sayers. Always will be. Change happens; people will always use the resources available to them, as resources come and go we will adapt.

 

There will always be people who absolutely Know the right way to live and Tell others how it should done and preach a doctrine of damnation to those who won't listen.

[Trunk]

The Fellowship for Intentional Communities, ic.org, has an international listing of intentional communities including organic farming communities and educational resources for same.

[sushil_yadav]

Chill . Follow your own advice. Find a cave, live off the land. Don't even think of reproducing. Nothing wrong with that. But be aware its incredibly arrogant to tell other people how they should live (note I'm telling you to live by your creed, away from evil tech).

 

Ever since we jumped out of trees there have been doom sayers. Always will be. Change happens; people will always use the resources available to them, as resources come and go we will adapt.

 

There will always be people who absolutely Know the right way to live and Tell others how it should done and preach a doctrine of damnation to those who won't listen.

 

 

I find it ironic that you have no concern/ compassion for Environment despite the fact that you owe your very existence to nature/ environment.

 

Why do you breathe the Air?

Why do you drink the Water?

Why do you eat the Food that comes from Soil? - Why don't you have Computers for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

 

Take all your technology to the Moon - and try producing a single grain of Food without using any natural ingredient from Earth.

 

 

In the absence of Nature your grandfather would'nt have lived.

In the absence of Nature your father would'nt have lived.

In the absence of Nature you would'nt have lived.

 

Show some respect to Nature.

 

sushil_yadav

Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

[Encephalon]

I find it ironic that you have no concern/ compassion for Environment despite the fact that you owe your very existence to nature/ environment.

 

Why do you breathe the Air?

Why do you drink the Water?

Why do you eat the Food that comes from Soil? - Why don't you have Computers for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

 

Take all your technology to the Moon - and try producing a single grain of Food without using any natural ingredient from Earth.

 

 

In the absence of Nature your grandfather would'nt have lived.

In the absence of Nature your father would'nt have lived.

In the absence of Nature you would'nt have lived.

 

Show some respect to Nature.

 

sushil_yadav

Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

 

 

Well, I have to agree with you on just about all counts and I commend you on your passion, but I invite you to consider a couple of points -

 

Try to ease up on the rhetoric. You're not the first person to realize the threat posed to this planet's ability to support life by human profligacy. There are millions of others who are ecologically literate and engaged in the process of trying to create an alternative to global consumerism. Sober mindedness is what is needed; alarmism has run its course.

 

The era of fossil fuel-based industrial consumerism has come with its own expiration clause; as soon as these fuels are depleted, consumer capitalism will wind down and the earth will begin to rebalance. That's the good news. The not so good news is that the rebalancing will not accomodate all 7 billion of us, so find a community, practice the cultivation regimens of your choice, learn some post-industrial skills that will make you a handy person to be around, and join us in the task of creating a viable alternative to the industrial mess you've aptly described. You're not alone!

[thelerner]

I find it ironic that you have no concern/ compassion for Environment despite the fact that you owe your very existence to nature/ environment.

 

Why do you breathe the Air?

Why do you drink the Water?

Why do you eat the Food that comes from Soil? - Why don't you have Computers for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

 

Take all your technology to the Moon - and try producing a single grain of Food without using any natural ingredient from Earth.

 

 

In the absence of Nature your grandfather would'nt have lived.

In the absence of Nature your father would'nt have lived.

In the absence of Nature you would'nt have lived.

 

Show some respect to Nature.

 

sushil_yadav

Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

I show respect for nature every time I take a shit. Nature is the great recycler. I breath air for the plants, they use the air I exhale, My piss ultimately feeds the plants that feed the animals, that creates the whole water cycle. I'm part of nature, my shit, spit, and piss are part of it, inseparable. I can't eat my computer and you can't eat rocks, but the tech in my slow cooker and oven help me cook dozens of times more efficiently then I could with a wood fire, which we all know is inefficient and highly polluting.

 

It could also be said in the absence of Technology odds are my grandfather and likely yours wouldn't be born.

 

Do you respect the computer you're using right now?? If not shut it off, don't be hypocrite.

 

Do you respect the light & heat source you're using right now?? Don't want to feed the system, don't use electricity. Personally I think its best to use it, conservatively, its all about efficiency.

 

You mentioned food. Unless you're growing it yourself, your using 1,000 pieces of technology to create and deliver it to your plate.

 

I'm thankful for nature, I love and exploit the bitch. She's a powerful idea, the ultimate recycler and life giver. She has my respect. I respect Tech too. Cause its an idea and a tool. Proper use lets me expand every sense and improve my life vastly.

 

Life is good. Part of it attitude. I have kudos for those who try to make the world better, but less for would be doomsday prophets. History, the world was worse in the 60's with acid rain, threat of nuclear annihilation. Much worse in the 40's with a world war and millions dying, horrors of war, mass starvation & cities going up in flames.

 

Talk about poison- in the 1800s and half the 1900's the water people drank was often dirty, possibly poisonous. No modern filtration, Epidemics, even plagues were a norm. Typhoid, polio, tuberculosis, malaria, small pox, these were common and every decade or so saw waves where the population was 'culled' by 10%. I'm talking relatively modern times, don't get me started on the Middle ages.

 

 

You think its bad because you don't know what the world was like. You overly idealize it and conceive of the past as Eden. What time period would you go back too? Cavemen? Good news. You can do it, grab your stuff go, live off the land. Have a toothache, cut yourself, no soup or antibiotics for you. You die, no medicine tech.

 

Sweet Mother Earth has scoured almost all life from Earth many times. She's Momma, but she can be a deadly bitch. Tech can as easily be mankinds savior as its destructor, but we don't need much tech to kill each other.

 

Its the same old story, tools give us potential. The wise use them well. The foolish fear them. Don't blame the tools. I think my kids will have more possibilities then most other generations. They'll do best if they respect and use tools available and take lessons from Nature. But then, Nature uses technology, indeed Nature and Technology are two very powerful ideas.

 

ya da yada

Edited February 20, 2012 by thelerner

[sushil_yadav]

Did I ever say I am not a part of society that is destroying ecosystems?????.........The title of my article says "Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment"......and I automatically get included in Industrial Society.

 

Your understanding of the issue of Environmental Destruction is very poor.

 

Environment does'nt get saved if a few people live a simple life.....It does'nt get saved if a few thousand people live a simple life......It does'nt get saved if a few million people live a simple life.....It does'nt get saved even if a few billion people live a simple life [which is happening right now.....Out of 7 billion people roughly half, about 3.5 billion are already living a simple life in Asia, Africa and South America .......but this does'nt save the environment......because the rest 3.5 billion people all over the world are living a highly consumerist life which is enough to destroy all ecosystems.

 

The entire world has to live a simple life. In animal kingdom all animals lived a simple life.....In Hunter_Gatherer Society all people lived a simple life......In Agrarian Society almost all people lived a simple life.

 

In a non-industrial society simple living happens automatically....one does not have to make efforts to live a simple life. In a non-industrial society environment gets saved automatically....one does not have to make efforts to save environment.

 

An Industrial Society produces thousands of consumer goods in addition to food, clothing and shelter.....therefore simple living by entire society is impossible.

 

There is no industrial society which limits its activity to just food, clothing, shelter and does not produce consumer goods.

 

If we compare the scale and magnitude of environmental destruction of the three human societies we have had on earth will find :

 

Hunter_Gatherer society was least destructive/ hardly caused any destruction......Agrarian Society was thousands of times more destructive.......Industrial Society is millions of times more destructive.

 

Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods and Services must stop immediately.......It should not continue for even one more day......Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter.

 

sushil_yadav

Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

[thelerner]

 

Environment does'nt get saved if a few people live a simple life.....It does'nt get saved if a few thousand people live a simple life......It does'nt get saved if a few million people live a simple life.....It does'nt get saved even if a few billion people live a simple life ..because the rest 3.5 billion people all over the world are living a highly consumerist life which is enough to destroy all ecosystems.

 

The entire world has to live a simple life.

 

Industrial Activity for production of Consumer Goods and Services must stop immediately.......It should not continue for even one more day......Human work must be limited to Food, Clothing and Shelter.

sushil_yadav

 

Good luck with that. So you'll be unhappy til all 7 billion people turn Hunter-Gatherers.

 

You can only do, what you can do and thats alot. When will you take action? When will you live out your beliefs? Are you standing in the back of 7 billion person line and until they do what you say should, then you're not doing it either.

 

If you think life should be simple, God bless you, many others do; and to their credit they live out there beliefs. Planned eco communities are out there. The Amish do, but beware, its damn hard work. You'll never be at peace if you preach one thing and live another.

 

You're on the computer preaching about the evil of computers. You live by the fruits of technology and complain bitterly about it. Walk the walk, become a hunter gatherer. Do your research and start walking. Start with Walden and move on to modern migrant living.

 

 

Be true to yourself and you'll be happier.

 

Me I like Tech. I see Taoism as being in harmony with your environment. Using modern tools, but seeing value in the old ones. I have a veggie garden kept infront of the house. I'm proud to say its inspired others on the block. (Mother Earth simple square foot gardening). Have a car, its a hybrid. Made money using the Taoist principle of finding value in other people's garbage. The world will take care of itself, be mindful of yourself and your own life.

 

According to you the world and its people are in deep doo doo. You're not alone, its been a bad recession and hard times globally. But its getting better. Globally, pollution wise, in my neck of the woods, the U.S. Midwest, its gotten amazingly better since the 60's when the great lakes were in danger of becoming 'dead' and one actually caught fire. Acid rain was devastating forests, cites lay under increasingly dense fogs of pollutants. We're not great, we may not even be good, but we've gotten better.

 

Do what you can, live your truth, keep an open heart, don't make excuses, be true to yourself. If you preach the world should be Hunter Gatherers then become one. Its doable.

[humbleone]

[thelerner]

There is a interesting new book out

 

http://mojoe.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/21/10465380-an-excerpt-from-peter-diamandis-new-book-abundance

 

So what is possible?

 

Imagine a world of nine billion people with clean water, nutritious food, affordable housing, personalized education, top-tier medical care, and non-polluting, ubiquitous energy. Building this better world is humanity's grandest challenge. What follows is the story of how we can rise to meet it.”

Looks like a good book. In a similar but more personal theme I like the book Pronoia. Here is a bit of an excerpt:

 

"DEFINITION: Pronoia is the antidote for paranoia. It's the understanding that the universe is fundamentally friendly. It's a mode of training your senses and intellect so you're able to perceive the fact that life always gives you exactly what you need, exactly when you need it.

 

OBJECTIVE OF PRONOIA: To explore the secrets of becoming a wildly disciplined, fiercely tender, ironically sincere, scrupulously curious, aggressively sensitive, blasphemously reverent, lyrically logical, lustfully compassionate Master of Rowdy Bliss.

 

HYPOTHESES: Evil is boring. Cynicism is idiotic. Fear is a bad habit. Despair is lazy. Joy is fascinating. Love is an act of heroic genius. Pleasure is your birthright. Receptivity is a superpower.

 

PROCEDURE: Act as if the universe is a prodigious miracle created for your amusement and illumination. Assume that secret helpers are working behind the scenes to assist you in turning into the gorgeous masterpiece you were born to be. Join the conspiracy to shower all of creation with blessings.

 

GUIDING QUESTION: "The secret of life," said sculptor Henry Moore to poet Donald Hall, "is to have a task, something you devote your entire life to, something you bring everything to, every minute of the day for your whole life. And the most important thing is -- it must be something you cannot possibly do." What is that task for you?"

 

 

That is to a large extent Pollyanna'ish stuff. Yet I think we need doses of it to keep centered. We are bombarded with a concentration of bad things happening all over the world. In the news media, what bleeds is what leads. Its an environment of psychic poisons and without something to clear our view, it bogs us down and we miss the millions of good things happening in the world and to us.

 

In Mantak Chia, Michael Winns, KAP systems its considered very important to do 'smile' work. Energy flows better through a relaxed happy system. Doing esoteric meditations without a positive attitude increases the danger. People fall into paranoia. Ultimately its a middle road we strive for, but we often have to fuel optimism just to stay in the middle.

Edited February 22, 2012 by thelerner

[humbleone]

In Mantak Chia, Michael Winns, KAP work its considered very important to do 'smile' work. Energy flows better through a relaxed happy system. Doing esoteric meditations without a positive attitude increases the danger. People fall into paranoia.

 

Ultimately its a middle road we strive for, but we often have to fuel optimism just to stay in the middle.

 

amen about the smile and the middle road.

 

during the dark days of my practice, having a smile made a lot of difference. the day would go better if I had a smile during the practice.

[Encephalon]

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Did somebody say birthright? Er i mean pleasure?