Keep it clean please

[三江源]

.

Edited March 29, 2015 by 三江源

[Patrick Brown]

YEs, many people think Tibetan Buddhism and Taoism were once one, and then diverged.

 

What I mean is that you can reach the 8th body before dying.

 

Said that I can assure you that you can be conscious of multiple bodies at the same time.

I can quite easily be present in my emotional body and my physical one, for example.

Just like you can be present to your left hand or your right hand, or you can balance your attention, and be present to both of them at the same time.

OK lets run with this as it could be interesting.

 

I think it might be more correct to say that conciousness can only be centred in one of the bodies at any point in time. The reason I say this is that schizophrenics are seemingly experiencing the dream realms on top of the physical hence them seeing and hearing things. I remember reading something way back about clairvoyants that said they could see the astral body (dream body) several inches out of alignment in mental patients. Now I'm not saying I believe the astral body ever leaves the physical, as some teach, but the idea that one of our bodies could be un-centred or out of alignment is interesting.

 

If we stick with your system and say that body one is the physical and body eight is the celestial, or whatever you might term it, then we should consider how we move from body to body. I've been taught that you can move up and down but that you can't jump i.e. You can't move from body one straight to body eight as you have to move through each body in sequence. Now hears the interesting bit, if you think of conciousness as a field that is centred in one body but impinges on the others with lessening awareness the further it gets away from the centre point. Now in our schizophrenic the conciousness seems to have become elongated, think sausage shape, so that it can function while seemingly being centred in two bodies which of course is not supposed to happen.

 

This illustration might help:

 

No it isnt motherly Pietro. It could be fatherly. It could said by anyone who isnt adolescent. Neither is it disrespectful of a discussion by adults, unless you are stuck in a reactive adolescent mind set.

Hmm I think growing up and becoming conditioned by society might be more damaging to the individual. There's a lot to be said for innocents and naivety but hey we all grow up eventually don't we?

[Pietro]

OK lets run with this as it could be interesting.

 

I think it might be more correct to say that conciousness can only be centred in one of the bodies at any point in time. The reason I say this is that schizophrenics are seemingly experiencing the dream realms on top of the physical hence them seeing and hearing things. I remember reading something way back about clairvoyants that said they could see the astral body (dream body) several inches out of alignment in mental patients. Now I'm not saying I believe the astral body ever leaves the physical, as some teach, but the idea that one of our bodies could be un-centred or out of alignment is interesting.

 

I am very surprised by this. I know many people who are able to feel and see their dreams while awake, and they are not schizophrenic. They just meditated enough to be aware of them.

 

If we stick with your system and say that body one is the physical and body eight is the celestial, or whatever you might term it, then we should consider how we move from body to body. I've been taught that you can move up and down but that you can't jump i.e. You can't move from body one straight to body eight as you have to move through each body in sequence.

 

 

I think sometimes limit expressed by philosophies and traditions, are more a tell tale of what you can do with that particular system that of what is possible, in some others.

 

In the taoist tradition, as it was taught to me, you always keep your concentration in the phisical body.

You might expand it to reach other bodies, but you do not stop feeling the body.

 

This was not only presented to me as something inside our tradition (the water tradition), but as something inside all of taoist meditation. In other words, if a meditation did not do that, it was not really taoist, or not traditionally taoist. I know this might sound offensive to some of you. Take it as it is, a description given to us by a taoist lineage master in traditional taoism. Not the last word, but quite an authoritative word.

 

Now hears the interesting bit, if you think of conciousness as a field that is centred in one body but impinges on the others with lessening awareness the further it gets away from the centre point. Now in our schizophrenic the conciousness seems to have become elongated, think sausage shape, so that it can function while seemingly being centred in two bodies which of course is not supposed to happen.

 

I am sorry, I think you lost me here. I have a hard time thinking of the consciousness as an object with a radius, and a continuum, that can be localized, and maybe measured. I think you are using a metaphore that is strongly limitating.

 

This illustration might help:

 

It didn't, but thank you.

 

..., unless you are stuck in a reactive adolescent mind set.

hehe

Edited November 8, 2008 by Pietro

[Patrick Brown]

I am very surprised by this. I know many people who are able to feel and see their dreams while awake, and they are not schizophrenic. They just meditated enough to be aware of them.

The only time I ever experienced anything like that was when I saw my double. I've also had a few hallucinations (without drugs) which I didn't enjoy. As I understand it the dreams planes are connected with emotion and strong emotion causes people to awaken from them.

 

Hmm I'm actually concerned that people can see their dreams while awake. So do theses people talk to entities that nobody else can see? I personally think that dreams are in our head but as we rise to the mental plane we get closer to connecting to the planetary conciousness. The Buddhic plane in the diagram above is the point at which our collective conciousness is realised. The Buddhic plane is where the illusion of separateness is shattered and is an aspect of the first enlightenment. The second enlightenment has more to do with skilful means (Upaya: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upaya ) this is the process of experiencing nirvanic bliss it's also related to teaching / awakening others.

 

I think sometimes limit expressed by philosophies and traditions, are more a tell tale of what you can do with that particular system that of what is possible, in some others.

This is very true which is why I don't adhere to any one system in fact you could say I have my own system which is no system!

 

In the taoist tradition, as it was taught to me, you always keep your concentration in the phisical body.

You might expand it to reach other bodies, but you do not stop feeling the body.

Hmm not too sure about this but I agree in part. Most schools seem to agree that it's pretty rare for enlightened beings to manifest on the physical plane. My take is that because of the diversity of our current gene pool many enlightened beings are being born. Of course they're probably not enjoying the experience and I figure that this is why the way of the Bodhisattva's has become more popular than full Buddhahood. Remember esoterically Buddha's do reincarnate eventually (some say every 2500 years although others have said it's 25'000 years). As far as I'm aware Bodhisattva's reincarnate pretty quick say every 100 years although this may have dropped to 50 years in our current time because of the increased number of possible gateways for rebirth. Another important point is the increased longevity of Boddhisattva's and there are stories of there being people hidden away in the Himalayas that are over 300 years old.

 

To return to the physical body in meditation I posted this the other day:

Like many people here I can have spontaneous orgasms sometimes even at will. I can get aroused and just by flicking a mental switch my body begins to spasm! Now I don't see this as any big deal as many women can have spontaneous orgasms but it's the intensity that interests me. I figure that there is a connection between pleasure and pain and that allowing energies to rise up the body can cause an intense knife like sensation through the prostate. I actually got to the point where each beat of my heart, when my breathing is in harmony, causes thousands of tiny mini prostate orgasms which seem to build.

 

For those that are interested the sensation is a split second after my heart beat. My breath draws in oxygen and electrons are stripped causing my heart to beat. The rest of the oxygen is carried around the body in the bloodstream. As my heart beats I can feel my lower abdomen beat in sympathy. I then can feel my prostate pulse a split second after each heart beat. The pulse of my prostate becomes a fizzing sensation like a thousand little orgasms riding the pulse wave. I then begin to feel waves within waves as the sensation begins to feel like a constant electric current flowing through my prostate growing in intensity. This is a far as I've gone and I've only done it a few times for short periods because I'm a bit nervous. I suspect that there is an ecstatic state that can be achieved and maintained and is probably what's called samadhi and nirvanic-bliss. Hey no rush just gentle steps.

 

Source: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...amp;#entry86308

[ZenStatic]

[Patrick Brown]

I just realised that the title of this thread sounds like something to do with personal hygiene!!

 

[Guest sykkelpump]

Hello all,breaking my promise to stop posting here.This topic is one of the reason I left ttb.The most visited posts is posts like this.should be ignored.What I loved with the idea of ttb was that people could help each other getting results for free.That is not the case here,for me It seems like the only people with a high leve cultivation here is Darin Hamel,but people here seems to forget or not understand this.And Why do people answer so many questions they know nothing about?

[Pero]

The most visited posts is posts like this.should be ignored.

 

Human nature.

 

It seems like the only people with a high leve cultivation here is Darin Hamel,but people here seems to forget or not understand this.

 

Maybe this will seem really rude, but anyway... Why? Because he meditated for 10+ years and got nothing from it?

 

And Why do people answer so many questions they know nothing about?

 

Human nature, and nature of discussion forums I guess.

[Patrick Brown]

Human nature, and nature of discussion forums I guess.

[mat black]

We've got Stig, cat and Matt on this thread and we have Darin on another thread, all being somewhat oppressive so it's beginning to look like a witch hunt.

 

All rather sad really.

You might have miscontrued what i said, so for the puropose of clarification, i'll just repeat the crux of it.

If someone swears and uses harsh speech, i personally have no beef with that, but just be aware that when we do act in such a way we are effectively spitting in our own face as well as other peoples' face - and some people don't like that and so they reflect it back to us......and on and on it goes

That is far from being oppressive, it's just a heads up that it helps to watch what comes out of our mouth. I said that from the experience i have from using harsh speech myself and also freom being on the recieving end. It is generally dis-harmonious.

Clean words, clean heart, clean mind, clean world it's all inter-related

Edited November 9, 2008 by mat black