The Ming Men Thread

[Trunk]

Hey. How's about a thread about "ming men"? Ming men is mentioned all over the place as being important; we've never really talked about it. Any quotes you have about ming men? Any practices you do to get the ming men mojo happenin'?, or none at all? What's you're experience of ming men?: nothin'?, just wooshin' through that train station?, or something particular happenin there? Wtf!, How do you locate it? What's ming men?

 

~ edit ~

If I might add, to those who are contributing, what specifically does it feel like for you?

(... there are methods, and there are results.)

Edited September 22, 2008 by Trunk

[Ian]

The only worthwhile fact I think I know is that contrary to the initial impression I had for ages, the ming men is apparently forward of the spine. Still quite a way back, but not at the back.

 

And that's all. Seem to remember Hagar having good stuff on this...

[Spectrum]

If u r open and u let it close ur gonna feel it. if it's closed since after infancy and it opens ur gonna feel it.

 

lifting thru the crwn and sinking thru the perenium wuji expands the lower mid upper back curves interelationshp

t

o

 

e

 

l

o

n

g

 

g

a

t

e

 

.

 

center of gravity shifts from above ground to under ground

 

feel weight distribution shifts as the body geometry changes from linear to circular; every athlete experiences this as a 'ready position', wuji ready yet uncommitted. The possibilities for horizontal movement as it spirals off the spine here is definable in so far as what body geometry allows, but without a core that is distributing weight evenly into the ground the upperbody will remain flimsy and unsupported (peng). I think this has to do with the rest of the connective tissue being ultimately connected to the spine, as the spine elongates, the rest of the structure sinks into it's most effective foundation for weight distrubution and redistrubution.

 

without the expansion contraction dynamics of wuji (and the activation of diaphramic breathing in a suspendead state) the ming men stays "closed" and the distribution of what we experience as resistance never evolves past the muscular. As soon as the whole body brain is activated the ming men opens and the dynamic inter-relationship between movement and stillness is supported by the breath as if suspended by billows or sails upon a vessel of footwork and spinning banners.

Edited September 22, 2008 by Spectrum

[xenolith]

Trunk, you really know how to suck me in.......contribute more will I, but some for now:

 

Spectrum, based on my experience, backwards have it you...ming-men opening precedes body-brain activation.

 

Perhaps it's a mechanistic difference...know I how to achieve ming-men opening and results, much here have I shared about said...encourage you to do same.

 

Lovin' you.

 

xeno

Edited September 22, 2008 by xenolith

[Spirit Ape]

Opening the Ming Men is easy and is part of most internal arts or kung fu systems. Slightly tuck up the pevil to open the ming men, concave the chest and shoulders round as well sunken.

[froggie]

Opening the Ming Men is easy and is part of most internal arts or kung fu systems. Slightly tuck up the pevil to open the ming men, concave the chest and shoulders round as well sunken.

 

pevil? what's that?

Edited September 22, 2008 by froggie

[Aetherous]

It's the evil pelvis.

[froggie]

It's the evil pelvis.

 

ahhhhh *lightbulb* .... the evil pelvis of elvis

Edited September 22, 2008 by froggie

[Spirit Ape]

Yes Pelvis lol!

[Trunk]

If I might add, to those who are contributing, what specifically does it feel like for you?

[xenolith]

Opening the Ming Men is easy...

Easy you say? Maybe so. But of what use is the opening if nothing passes through it?

 

Do you also find juggling jing easy? And drawing the chi out of it easy? And sipping it into the Governor Channel? If so, based on my experience, many years of training have you passed. And much obligation have you to share what you've learned.

 

Pray delay not.

 

And may you fare better in that sharing than have I.

 

Frankly, and as respectfully as it can be stated, I think you speak out of ignorance. Nothing would please me more than to be shown that I'm mistaken.

 

There's your second solicitation.

 

Don't take it personally, I think nearly all who think that they've experienced their MCO are mistaken. It takes a whole lot more than the contortions that you've described. Indeed with familiarity with it those aren't necessary. And the real point is that while "good" feelings can be experienced through MCO training, they're of little spiritual significance. The significant stuff with the MCO happens when facility with the mind-body skill of seminal kung fu is achieved...the bellwether signpost of which is the warming of the small of the back when passing of chi through the ming-men is first achieved. Suggest ten years of training to find said signpost. Hard it is to contra-train the mind-body against a biological imperative. Once done though, easy it is to do again...

 

What's been your experience?

 

That makes three.

 

xeno

[Spirit Ape]

Xeno,

 

Thanks for your comments although this is my understanding and my experiences with 2 both fantastic teachers i learnt with that said the same thing and i just know that its right cause i can feel the difference when i tuck the pelvis in! Im not talking micro or macro cosmic orbits just understanding your basics correct posture this will start the process even with intent or no intent the chi will move.

 

Ape

[qijack]

The first 2 years or so of my meditation/qi gong practice i went through many openings in the ming men area which felt like (pain, throbing, magnetic pulsing, a knot moving up,down, sideways.But now since my energy is alot more refined and body alot more open i dont feel anything there anymore except for the occasional sensations of heat that passes through my entire lower back when i do my shaolin qi gong

Edited September 22, 2008 by qijack

[hagar]

Hey. How's about a thread about "ming men"? Ming men is mentioned all over the place as being important; we've never really talked about it. Any quotes you have about ming men? Any practices you do to get the ming men mojo happenin'?, or none at all? What's you're experience of ming men?: nothin'?, just wooshin' through that train station?, or something particular happenin there? Wtf!, How do you locate it? What's ming men?

 

~ edit ~

If I might add, to those who are contributing, what specifically does it feel like for you?

(... there are methods, and there are results.)

 

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=3289&hl=

[yatzhong]

I have two different practices which have specific uses of the ming men point.

 

One is yiquan and the other is a qigong system that uses the mingmen point to spread the qi throughout the body.

 

A sign that one has learned yiquan properly would be his ability to issue power from the mingmen point. Yiquan's founder Wang Xiang Zhai can be quoted as saying it takes about ten years to accomplish. From day one of my yiquan training I was taught to push out the ming men when standing and moving.

 

Cai Song Fang, from "Warriors of Stillness" Vol I also stresses using the ming men when issuing force.

 

 

Other than that I haven't heard much about using the ming men.

[seadog]

Situated between the kidneys,ming men provides the mechinanism for the infusion of all physiological dualities in a way that creates life and fuels evolution.

All such dualities such as, Heaven and Earth, water and fire, jing and shen, yin and yang, reflect the loss of the dao's primal unity.

With regards to Humans these dualities may be reunited into one in the fires of ming men.

Humans being postioned between Heaven and Earth are an organics means by which the alchemy of fire and water can intermingle. The name of acupucture point governor vessel-4 known as mingmen,or the "gate of destiny"or "gate of life" refers to this alchemical process, located between the Kidneys.

 

Mingmen contains our inheritance of primordial yin and yang,which to our core joins us to primordial Dao.

Its important to note that GV-4,UB-23(kidney shu) and UB-52(Zhishi,"room of will) are all at the same anatomical level in a straight line at the space between the second and third lumbar vertabrae. This supports the idea of the functional relationship between the jing,will,kidney and the function of mingmen.

 

Daoist scholar Liu Yiming believes the very foundation of inner alchemy is the stability of the human will. He affirms that the stability of human will sets up the foundation of our ability to seek authentic self and fulfill destiny.

Perhaps the nature of our will determines whether we fully express our authentic self or whether habitual behaviour extinguishes the flames of mingmen.

[Spectrum]

mind body

body mind

nothing is

in between

 

it's only one of the three gate houses on the map. they open and close with internal external alignment principles. what i mean is the thought dialog mind turns off when the body brain is on, rather the body brain is always on and the dialog runs over and through it, that is what we experience as "stress" in the various layers, the gutters get full and you gotta clean and comb them out. what else is diverting a punch from a high to low point? all the different aspects from organ to fascial health gung are the layers of the onion. when mind accepts it's connective nature u gotta let it all go else experience living hell nightmare. continue to practice letting things go, in a physical environment, and mental success is almost mimicing what is being modeled externally. it defies physics. slows down inertias effect on the body. the spin. off to practice.

Edited September 22, 2008 by Spectrum

[Taomeow]

Situated between the kidneys,ming men provides the mechinanism for the infusion of all physiological dualities in a way that creates life and fuels evolution.

All such dualities such as, Heaven and Earth, water and fire, jing and shen, yin and yang, reflect the loss of the dao's primal unity.

With regards to Humans these dualities may be reunited into one in the fires of ming men.

Humans being postioned between Heaven and Earth are an organics means by which the alchemy of fire and water can intermingle. The name of acupucture point governor vessel-4 known as mingmen,or the "gate of destiny"or "gate of life" refers to this alchemical process, located between the Kidneys.

 

Mingmen contains our inheritance of primordial yin and yang,which to our core joins us to primordial Dao.

Its important to note that GV-4,UB-23(kidney shu) and UB-52(Zhishi,"room of will) are all at the same anatomical level in a straight line at the space between the second and third lumbar vertabrae. This supports the idea of the functional relationship between the jing,will,kidney and the function of mingmen.

 

Daoist scholar Liu Yiming believes the very foundation of inner alchemy is the stability of the human will. He affirms that the stability of human will sets up the foundation of our ability to seek authentic self and fulfill destiny.

Perhaps the nature of our will determines whether we fully express our authentic self or whether habitual behaviour extinguishes the flames of mingmen.

 

Have you read the Zhuangzi story of Sudden and Abrupt who bore holes in Primal Unity because they figured he/she/it needed eyes, ears, nose, etc.?

 

Loss of Primal Unity is like loss of outbreath when you're about to breathe in. Tao pulsates.

 

At least that's what I've been observing so far, but of course I haven't seen it all.

 

In the Dragon Gate book about Wang Liping, they mention another point, the Gate of Death, somewhere in that same vicinity you so eloquently outlined. Do you know where that is?

[seadog]

Indeed I agree that the movement of dao could be consider pulsation.Recently I read the gospel of Thomas whose name means(Twin).In one particular verse Thomas inquires of Jesus "How shall I explain our God to others.Jesus replied our God is repose and movement.

Which I believe you were pointing to in your comparison to the breath.Indeed the the statement of breath of life is common amongst many spritual traditions as it is a clear sign post to the working of all phenomenom.

Although I'Am not familiar with the Gate of Death,to hazzard a guess perhaps the flip side to the gate of life.

Fire can both warm and infuse, scorch and destroy.

 

The tale of The sudden and the abrupt,seems to be a common theme amongst many cultures particularly when transitioning from a hunter gatherer to argarian lifestlye.Its as though on some level the human pysche instinctively knew that that particular course went against the will of heaven.

 

I would be intrested to read your museings on this.

[Fire Dragon]

Have you read the Zhuangzi story of Sudden and Abrupt who bore holes in Primal Unity because they figured he/she/it needed eyes, ears, nose, etc.?

 

Loss of Primal Unity is like loss of outbreath when you're about to breathe in. Tao pulsates.

 

At least that's what I've been observing so far, but of course I haven't seen it all.

 

In the Dragon Gate book about Wang Liping, they mention another point, the Gate of Death, somewhere in that same vicinity you so eloquently outlined. Do you know where that is?

 

 

Hello

 

I think Mantak Chia calls it the gate of life and death! Perhaps it is the same point. I have alot atetntion to it myself doing alot standing now when I have started with my yoga group to do exercises from the taoist yoga and sexual energy by Yudelove. I have some difficulties with standing. I think it is somehow connected with my illness the coldness and the tiredness. When I do standing against the wall it is nearly impossible to got the ming men against the wall at the same time to have alignment in the shoulders and the neck. If I got the aligment close to right I start trembling and energy comes up, but I have greate diffucultties in continuing with the standing. Learning right now to try to continue but stop before it is to demanding. After a few minutes standing I sweating a along my body and have to change clothes. I am also quite tired sometimes nearly feel like I want to faint.

 

For the time beeing I have been qutie exhausted by owerwork and have stiffness in the muscles, this have increased my difficulties with standing the psoas are more stiff and then it is even harder to get the ming men into the wall.

 

During my whole practise with the universal tao system I always have had this difficulties with Iron Shirt exercises. I think they somehow connects to my illness and I think they could be part of a solution to it. But perhaps I have to owercome my resistance against it and just keep it on. This book will be the first time I continously will exercise it. I have no way out beacase I want to follow the exercises toghether with the rest of the group. I also want to be able to do the meditations when standing and not while sitting. For the moment I only manage the short meditation not the long one which is the beginning of fusion.

 

I had also in the first book by Yudelove done some breathing to the ming men and other points along the back. It feels warm and good.

 

I heard again today while listening to the eight brocades DVD in my white tigress course that standing is the fastest way to develop heat, which have been my biggest gole in life since i got my coldness illness and burned out condition. This stagement in the DVD gave me much more inspiration to practise this and I look forward with excitment to my new achivements with iron shirt, even though I sometimes have a hard time with my resitance against it.

 

F D

[joeblast]

Have you read the Zhuangzi story of Sudden and Abrupt who bore holes in Primal Unity because they figured he/she/it needed eyes, ears, nose, etc.?

 

Loss of Primal Unity is like loss of outbreath when you're about to breathe in. Tao pulsates.

 

At least that's what I've been observing so far, but of course I haven't seen it all.

 

In the Dragon Gate book about Wang Liping, they mention another point, the Gate of Death, somewhere in that same vicinity you so eloquently outlined. Do you know where that is?

gate of life & death is the huiyin, but just gate of death?

[Spiritual_Aspirant]

gate of life & death is the huiyin, but just gate of death?

 

I've only read about the gate of life and death, and that's the perinium point..

[Trunk]

Thanks, Hagar, for the link to the previous thread entitled "The Gate of Life" - I read it and bookmarked it. Also there's a link to an article "Nurturing the Gate of Life" from that thread, will read soon.

 

center of gravity shifts from above ground to under ground ...

feel weight distribution shifts as the body geometry changes from linear to circular; every athlete experiences this as a 'ready position', wuji ready yet uncommitted. ...

Sweet!

 

..know I how to achieve ming-men opening and results, much here have I shared about said...

Xeno, I'm interested to read your prior written stuff but couldn't find on a search. You post a link?

 

 

My contribution is twiddling ming men, at a lazy pace.

(Adjust your hands to any comfortable position behind your back.)

 

 

(I don't have time to reply to everyone in detail, but I read each post in detail and appreciate. )

[Trunk]

p.s.

 

Re: acupoints, I've found that any variation of "pulsing" to be especially effective. Hitting, twiddling, vibrating massage tool, a bit of gentle rhythm added to deep massage with the thumbs or tools.

 

Energy, blood, etc., does not only pass through an acupoint (though that's a lot better than "jammed"), things happen at an acupoint. Often it's a connecting point to an organ or layer of the body, or a place where two or more channels intersect, things mix and change quality, etc. ... particulars that facilitate integration.

[rain]

p.s.

 

Re: acupoints, I've found that any variation of "pulsing" to be especially effective. Hitting, twiddling, vibrating massage tool, a bit of gentle rhythm added to deep massage with the thumbs or tools.

 

Energy, blood, etc., does not only pass through an acupoint (though that's a lot better than "jammed"), things happen at an acupoint. Often it's a connecting point to an organ or layer of the body, or a place where two or more channels intersect, things mix and change quality, etc. ... particulars that facilitate integration.

 

I dont know much about acupuncture, but this is why I wanted to point to the "8-Hui" Converging Acupoints.