If our individuality is an illusion, so is our ultimate oneness.

[Son Goku]

The oneness isn't more real then our material world.

 

In the same token, we are working with words- just silly language to describe something that functions independently from somantics. That being said; it could also be explained this way----->

 

The oneness and the material world are both real.

[Unconditioned]

The oneness isn't more real then our material world.

 

In the same token, we are working with words- just silly language to describe something that functions independently from somantics. That being said; it could also be explained this way----->

 

The oneness and the material world are both real.

 

I agree that you could say that they are both real however that isn't the whole story! The IDEA of oneness or multiplicity or any +/- comparison are all ideas - like you've stated about silly words.

 

But, that both ideas are in-fact real is just another idea, ad infinitum. How do you get out of this loop? Go behind ideas themselves, shift from objects of the mind to subjectivity (activity) of the mind. What is our thought process? Where do these ideas come from?

[Son Goku]

I agree that you could say that they are both real however that isn't the whole story! The IDEA of oneness or multiplicity or any +/- comparison are all ideas - like you've stated about silly words.

 

But, that both ideas are in-fact real is just another idea, ad infinitum. How do you get out of this loop? Go behind ideas themselves, shift from objects of the mind to subjectivity (activity) of the mind. What is our thought process? Where do these ideas come from?

 

I meant saying these ideas (Oneness and the material world) are real, is no more or less accurate then saying

that they are illusion.

 

The best way to get an "insiders peek" at the nature of conciousness/existance, is to see it for yourself; to view 'Emptiness/Oneness/TheVOID/BuddhaNature/whatEverYouWannaCallit' directly.

 

Whether its possible to see the material world in its entirety all at once, I can't say- because I haven't done.

But from my very limited experiance I can surely say that seeing 'the void' all at once is. And if you look at ancient Chinese thinking, it explains how this is possible- because the microcosm of a human being contains all the information of the universe.

 

Until you have (least a little taste of) the experience for yourself, its all just imagination.

Edited September 22, 2008 by Son Goku

[Unconditioned]

Until you have (least a little taste of) the experience for yourself, its all just imagination.

 

Exactly

 

Once the focus is on Being/doing rather than objects we can experience the pure void. The void is not the opposite of the material. It is the source of the material.

 

You can't separate the light from the flame. Nor can you separate the material from the non-material. The void is the source of both. Every time we try to describe it we cannot do it justice since it can't be an object. Tough little bugger that one can be! I prefer to say that neither Oneness nor Illusion are real. This points to a purely void source.... a stripping away of everything until it is completely pure, unconditioned, Tao/God/Spirit/etc.

 

To say that everything is real is no different than to say everything is unreal except that one points to a removing of illusion while the other is saying adding reality - aka, the same thing

 

Phew, I hope that wasn't too confusing... I may have broken a fuse on this post...

[Son Goku]

Exactly

 

Once the focus is on Being/doing rather than objects we can experience the pure void. The void is not the opposite of the material. It is the source of the material.

 

You can't separate the light from the flame. Nor can you separate the material from the non-material. The void is the source of both. Every time we try to describe it we cannot do it justice since it can't be an object. Tough little bugger that one can be! I prefer to say that neither Oneness nor Illusion are real. This points to a purely void source.... a stripping away of everything until it is completely pure, unconditioned, Tao/God/Spirit/etc.

 

To say that everything is real is no different than to say everything is unreal except that one points to a removing of illusion while the other is saying adding reality - aka, the same thing

 

Phew, I hope that wasn't too confusing... I may have broken a fuse on this post...

 

Nice. To quote Master Sheng Yen- 'The final ultimate reality is that there is no final ultimate reality'

 

There are as many different skys as there are eyes to view them.