Compare Dan Tien to Chakra?

[Shagrath]

I learned Thai Massasge a few months ago, where we use nadis instead of meridians. Now the thing is that in Thai Massage you press really hard. I never understood why they did that. But after working a little bit with it, and doing it pretty lightly so I didnt hurt the patients, I met a muscle that needed some more pressure. So I pushed down really hard and at that moment I realized that this pressure was needed to activate the nadi. I could see how the whole body adjusted and I felt the flow of energy activate.

 

So you see Thai Massage and Meridian massage work with two different energysystem. One with the nadis, another with the meridians. But still, most textbooks and even proffesional Thai Massagists say meridians and nadis are the same. There is truckloads of confusion out there...

 

 

Traditional Thai Massage uses Sen Lines/Channels not Nadis nor classical channel from chinese philosophy.

[JohnC]

Dantian (丹田)

Dan (丹) means elixir, Tian (田) means field. The elixir resides at the field's center.

 

Chakra means spinning wheel.

 

Draw three circles on top of one another, connecting at their boarders. These are the three fields.

 

O - upper

O - middle

O - lower

 

Place a dot in the center of each circle. These are the three elixiers.

 

Draw a line down the center through the circles and the dots. There are seven areas the line intersects a circle or dot. These are the seven chakras. Chakras 7 and 1, face up and down to interact with Cosmic Qi and Earth Qi respectively. The other chakras face forwards and backwards.

 

Everyone has the three fields and the seven chakras. Cultivation creates the elixirs and makes the chakras and fields bigger and healthier (bigger here means mostly how far they extend from the body).

Brilliant. I don't have enough knowledge of the like to know if true or not, but makes sense to me.

 

John

Edited February 19, 2013 by JohnC

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

i've seen many channel, point, chakra, gate, and etc. descriptions.


I will mush them up together and see what we get:







( * ) ¯Sky/celestial/shared chakra





(&)-Spirit torus chakra



(%)_Soul/person right above crown.

vv__________________
U (#) Crown-Top of head.
P ( o ) Third Eye - center of forehead
P ($) Jade Pillow - Base of skull
E (@) Thyroid - Neck
R
Dan Tien^ (not sure where???)
<3 Heart (for some it's lust, the root, for others, their stomach, and those who think they are above others in their crown or voice, but there are yet still those who dwell in the heart of hearts)
(Middle Dan Tien)
(!) Solar Plexus - center of chest, below heart?

(_) Spleen - spleenish area?

(.) its a belly button! (Navel)
(Lower Dan Tein)
Sacrum (??????)
(m)Root (sexy chakra) - base of spine??


(X)???



(x) ??? Earth Shared





( ) ?

[Owledge]

Regarding more than 7 chakras, I found this website interesting:

http://www.wisdomsdoor.com/hb/hhb-20.shtml

 

There's another link which describes chakras as having certain numbers of color bands, but I can't find it right now.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Owledge

[Sloppy Zhang]

Ahahaha, I saw this thread title and was going to post a one word post:

 

"Don't"

 

And then I saw the OP!

 

made my day

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

ITS A TRAP!!

[Spotless]

I have only been doing Qi Gong for about 6 months. I have been practicing various forms of meditation for some 40+ years.

I can tell you unequivocally that the 2nd Chakra located below the navel is not the same as the dan tien.

(there are some here who have mentioned a "navel chakra" - I have never heard of this and do not feel it but the Dan Tien is also not the "navel chakra". Perhaps the "naval chakra" is one of the hundreds of minor vortex's such as can be found between each bone, at the tips of fingers, palms, sole of the feet, tips of toes)

 

When you become familiar with the chakras they have a very definite feeling that is hard to describe most of the time - because it is not very pronounced in most cases. I feel the 6th chakra, Crown Chakra, hand Chakras, foot chakras and some others whenever I put my attention on them - - even for a moment and much more powerfully if I am doing Qi Gong or meditation.

 

However, there have been times when I they have felt very clearly like vortex's - very very strong magnetic vortex's and so precise that I could have drawn a magic marker pen around the edges and told you where they went, what they connected to and - well - there was no doubt as to exactly what they were - where they were and what they did.

 

We have many minor chakras - between each joint - within the eyes - at the tips of our toes and fingers.

 

Regarding the idea of them having specific colors - don't believe it - the colors change, a slight variation in what is almost the same color can mean something completely different - and each color is always taken in context not on face value.

 

The Dan Tien that I have experience off an on since my first experience with it as a fire/heater when I was around 16 or 17 - (a very clear activation of it) is slightly lower and deeper set. It is not a vortex as i have experienced it - it is much more like a golf ball in feel and size. Its emenations are not yet too specific to me but they definitely extend out at least a foot while I am at rest here typing in bed.

I have not yet spent any real time reading about the Dan Tien and my Qi Gong teacher is an older Shaolin Monk that does not speak any English. He is a great teacher none the less and i follow him closely in the exercises and I can see most of what I need to know. Since I already feel and see the energy, translators are able to help with the few questions I need answered.

 

Regarding the abilities contained in the main chakras - the generalizations are basically true - but they are really somewhat childish in the conveyance of what is actually associated with the different 7 main chakras.The old books by Leadbetter are still the best around and the literature of the Theosophical Society is excellent - and all free thanks to The Project Gutenberg.

Tantric Yoga books also have some fairly specific info as well.

 

There is a reason some teachings are "secret" - none of them are secret - none of them.

Some teaching cannot take place until the student has attained the level necessary to understand what cannot be said to those unable to hear it.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Spotless

[Owledge]

I have only been doing Qi Gong for about 6 months. I have been practicing various forms of meditation for some 40+ years.

I can tell you unequivocally that the 2nd Chakra located just below the navel is not the same as the dan tien.

I guess a common clue that they are not the same is that the lower dan tien is said to be 4 finger wide below the navel, while the sacral chakra is said to be right above the pubic bone, which is well below that.

 

I still haven't figured out though why certain breathing/meditation techniques say to focus on the navel. It's opposite of the ming men, but that's all I know.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Owledge

[Spotless]

Regarding the Upper Dan Tien:

 

I associate it with the center of the head below and inline with the Crown chakra - I associate the 3rd Eye with the center of the head in association with both the 6th (brow) chakra and the 7th (crown) chakra.

 

Their is a very strong magnetic field that arises as this opens. It is different from the 6th chakra which is more forward. It incorporates the Knowing aspect of the Crown chakra and the Clairvoyance of the 6th chakra. I always felt something was missing from my information given the spatial diferences I was aware of and the literature on the 6th chakra and the 3rd eye.

Now I see the upper Dan Tien as the center of the head and I believe this is the 3rd eye or the more powerful of the two pieces : center of head and forward of center 6th chakra. It is not important to know, but the differences are very clear - whatever they have been labeled,

 

Many years ago it was incredible to be able to see or feel anything of the 6th chakra. But this center of head area is far more expansive and combines with the massive column of energy mounting up the spine and out the head and arms and all into the surrounding aura - with Qi Gong the first few layers of my aura feel almost hard.

 

i am learning about Qi Gong bass akwards - and it is powerful - a great way to re-align - un-habituate.

 

I have not yet started to clarify whats what in the solar region regarding chakra vs Middle Dan Tien.

For many years my work has been intense in the head area - now I am concentrating on the Lower Dan Tien area.

I have also worked on all of the chakras and the 3, 4 and 5th are no strangers.

[Owledge]

I wonder how glands are relevant regarding those energetic points. As far as I understand, the pineal gland could be where the upper dan tien (or 6th chakra) is and the thymus gland where the middle one (or 4th chakra) is. Any glands on other chakra locations?

 

@Spotless

How do you perceive animals energetically?

[Spotless]

I wonder how glands are relevant regarding those energetic points. As far as I understand, the pineal gland could be where the upper dan tien (or 6th chakra) is and the thymus gland where the middle one (or 4th chakra) is. Any glands on other chakra locations?

 

@Spotless

How do you perceive animals energetically?

 

Regarding animals:

 

They have chakras - many can communicate telepathically. I have had real communication with one cat and one puppy in particular.

I have not sought out communication with them but horses and cats are among the easiest to speak with.

Telepathically it can be identical to normal speech - it was that way with the cat. We spoke twice - each time during the day - each time he had a question or a request and only wanted the simple answer that I gave him - but he spoke loudly and clearly in the center of my head in English while he looked at me waiting for my response and he responded to my response immediately and appropriately.

The dog was a different story - he was soundly asleep and I decided to follow him up to where he was sleeping. From his play space up there I spoke to him and he listened intently and came down into his body as I requested him to do though I had to be quite adamant - he was playing and I was asking him to leave. But - he did come down and jump into his body and immediately he stood up, came over to me and looked at me anxiously in the eyes and wanted to know what i wanted - at which point i just smiled and said "nothing" and he immediately curled back up into a ball and left his body to go back and play.

 

I once had a Raven come to my table at an outside resturant and sit with me through my sandwich. Given that the place was busy it was pretty remarkable - it was a small two seat table.

Later that week I was in a Safeway parking lot and he landed on my truck - I put out my arm and he got on it. I sat him in the passenger seat and he stayed at my house for an extended stay. I always left the window open in case he wanted to leave - at least until the weather became colder. He would leave for days and stay for days. The presence of this striking bird was very intense - it was a wonderful experience. By the way - in all the time he stayed with me i never once had to clean up after him - he would take off and come back - I don't recall even one incident - not that it would have mattered. i bring this up because this Raven was so wholly independent and reponsible for himself. His energy extended well into 3 feet all around him. (i was in my early 20s)

Edited February 23, 2013 by Spotless

[Owledge]

Awesome experiences.

According to my shamanic journeys, I have a good disposition for telepathy myself, but that might be something for the distant future to explore. Still trying to figure out much more basic stuff.

 

I have a book about animal messengers: If the bird was a real raven, then it says the message is to finally speak out a truth that you hid in yourself for a while. If it was a crow, it carries a message from another soul to you, very likely dead or from a past life, but not necessarily.

 

I am not surprised that your communication with animals is clearly understood. Apparently telepathy works on a basic universal information language, so if you perceive words in your head that form logical sentences, that's just your brain's interpretation of that universal language.

This raises the interesting question of whether animals can understand everything you can tell them, regardless of the complexity. How complex was the content of the question from the cat?

Maybe just like with humans, only certain individuals among animals can communicate telepathically, and they then would have a higher understanding of things.

 

What are your thoughts about this?

[gendao]

Regarding more than 7 chakras, I found this website interesting:

http://www.wisdomsdoor.com/hb/hhb-20.shtml

 

There's another link which describes chakras as having certain numbers of color bands, but I can't find it right now.

According to this article, the 3 chakras that essentially correspond to the 3 Chinese dantian's are the only really "universally-recognized" ones.  The others vary even within different Indian traditions...

How many chakras are there really?' And that brings us to our first major misunderstanding. The chakras aren't like organs in the physical body; they aren't fixed facts that we can study like doctors study neural ganglia. The energy body is an extraordinarily fluid reality, as we should expect of anything nonphysical and supersensuous. The energy body can present, experientially speaking, with any number of energy centers, depending on the person and the yogic practice they're performing.

 

Having said that, there are a few centers which are found in all systems—specifically, chakras in the lower belly, the heart, and the crown of the head, since these are three places in the body where humans all over the world experience both emotional and spiritual phenomena. But apart from those three, there's huge variety in the chakra systems we find in the original literature. One is not more 'right' than another, except relative to a specific practice. For example, if you're doing a five-element practice, you use a five-chakra system (see point #6 below). If you're internalizing the energy of six different deities, you use a six-chakra system. Duh, right? But this crucial bit of information has not yet reached Western yoga.

 

[shazlor]

According to Gurdjieff for each octave there are seven tones and three intervals (semitones) that had to be passed in order to evolve from a lower vibration to a higher vibration.

 

In my understanding the chackras are the energy vibration tones of the body while the three dantiens are the intervals that have to be filled up with something in order to be passed over.

 

do from previous octave

1. re

2. mi

3. first interval

4. fa

5. so

6. second interval

7. la

8. si

9. third interval to higher do

 

The intervals cannot be passed by default, only by intentional conscious work. By default the evolution blocks itself in the intervals which are also called blockages, and the natural evolution seeks another way around. This is why nature evolves in circles and cycles. The first interval is easier to pass, second is harder and the third is the hardest one. Each interval is by itself a mini octave. This is what Gurdjieff called the Law of Seven.

*

 

Wyrd I have been working on transmuting gunk energy and extracting feeder cords from my solar plexus the past several days and today whilst walking I spontaneously started to intently whisssper da runes FA and SOL for an hour. Cool. "Indovert, Chinovert; vvhatever."

 

P.S that story of the raven is something special! Their timely mocking cries have long convinced me they read my thoughts and help jog my memory.

[Spotless]

Awesome experiences.

According to my shamanic journeys, I have a good disposition for telepathy myself, but that might be something for the distant future to explore. Still trying to figure out much more basic stuff.

 

I have a book about animal messengers: If the bird was a real raven, then it says the message is to finally speak out a truth that you hid in yourself for a while. If it was a crow, it carries a message from another soul to you, very likely dead or from a past life, but not necessarily.

 

I am not surprised that your communication with animals is clearly understood. Apparently telepathy works on a basic universal information language, so if you perceive words in your head that form logical sentences, that's just your brain's interpretation of that universal language.

This raises the interesting question of whether animals can understand everything you can tell them, regardless of the complexity. How complex was the content of the question from the cat?

Maybe just like with humans, only certain individuals among animals can communicate telepathically, and they then would have a higher understanding of things.

 

What are your thoughts about this?

All Beings whether purely energetic, animal, plant or mineral have a "language" base - some will consist of a knowing, some of a mathematical or crystalline level and then many that resemble our language and that of music.