Secrets of Universe

[.broken.]

In the world of cultivation, none of these methods of "Buddhism and Daoism" have a label. They do not fight with each other to see who is better. They are all simply just cultivation methods, one family all interrelated.

 

Only at the levels of ignorance and relativity, are there distinctions of the mind.

Couldn't let the above go without a second glance, or perhaps even a little fanfare Your presence on this board is appreciated, and I am glad my own thoughts are yours too One mind.

 

Yours most humbly,

James

[Li Jiong]

Li Jiong,

 

Lao Zi, though very wise indeed, was not higher than the state of a Buddha. Either he was an transformation of a Buddha, which would make him a Buddha, or a reincarnation of a Bodhisattva, which has been investigated deeply. He is recognized as the Bodhisattva Mahakasyapa, who undegone similar birth in previous lifetimes.

 

Here is the record statements of the SIxth Patriarch's Diamond Platform Sutra, with Commentary by Xuan Hua Shang Ren:

In the world of cultivation, none of these methods of "Buddhism and Daoism" have a label. They do not fight with each other to see who is better. They are all simply just cultivation methods, one family all interrelated. No one is taking credit for the accomplishments of Lao Zi, but what is truth is truth; Daoism and Buddhism is really aspects of the same teaching of cultivation.

 

Even Patriarch Lu Dong Bin cultivates Chan and is a Dharma Protector, yet he appears int he world as a Daoist for the Daoists. At those levels, there are no distinctions. Only at the levels of ignorance and relativity, are there distinctions of the mind.

 

Where we are is a kindergarten class. All these great cultivators are wondering what's taking us so long...but they sit by and push us to continue along the way.

 

So please, say what you will, but making statements like that really help people create more false thoughts about Daoism proper. Lao Zi can be a Transformation body of a Buddha, that would be great, and or a Bodhisattva. But I have not once met a being higher than a Buddha. Just doesn't happen.

 

Be well brother. Keep up the good work.

 

好好修行吧.

 

林爱伟

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin

What you said are politically right, no one will be offended. Unfortunately, I don't think it is the truth. Perhaps you still do not achieve a certain level to distinguish them, but I can. So I cannot say they are all equal against my will. I do not want to provoke an argument of different religions or cultivators, but at the same time, I cannot ignore the fact. Sorry for my frankness.

[林愛偉]

What you said are politically right, no one will be offended. Unfortunately, I don't think it is the truth. Perhaps you still do not achieve a certain level to distinguish them, but I can. So I cannot say they are all equal against my will. I do not want to provoke an argument of different religions or cultivators, but at the same time, I cannot ignore the fact. Sorry for my frankness.

 

 

Li Jiong,

 

I am not looking to argue. Also, to even have to attain a level to distinguish them is ridiculous in and of itself. Why do so? Why do humans have to always label, and put certain things on a hierarchical status? That , in and of itself, is no high attainment, and I don't want it.

 

Sorry brother, but having to attain a level where I can distinguish the highs and lows is not an attainment worth going for. I am reaching for neither high nor low. A state where the words of the Dao De jing and the Buddha Dharma all do not exist, do not need to not exist.

 

That is a place you haven't reached for sure, and I myself am going for. To tell you straight up, the Dao De Jing is very direct indeed, but with all the commentaries on it, no one is going to reach the level of actual sagehood through Laozi's teachings. The same goes for Buddhism as well...too many egocentric people claiming to know the pure doctrine lead millions off the path. Its unfortunate, but it is here in our world. Two great teachings mixed into the dust and grime... some get it and some don't. When you get it, it is thus Heavenly Blessings, and when you don't it is simply your own misfortunes.

 

Next thing we will hear about is people claiming they understand the Dao De Jing, and that they are sages. What a joke.

 

I wrote the below to a brother of the cultivation of the Way, and thus, I will post it here as well:

 

Buddhism is about cultivation, attaining wisdom and becoming a Buddha, which only those who cultivate the teachings of the Buddha Dharma will attain. Those who talk about Buddhism as though they are an authority on the teachings, but do not cultivate Buddhism, are deviant, and will cause millions of living beings to remain confused and enter the hell realms of their mind.

 

One cannot attain Buddha hood unless they are cultivating the Proper Buddha Dharma. Plain and Simple. All this talk from people about how Buddhism is this and that is just clouds in the sky. They will never know the real and proper Dharma if it hit them right in the face..and unfortunately, it has hit them in the face, and no one has recognized it.

 

When one truly understands Buddha Dharma, the world and all those things said to be of the world come into view, and are seen for what they are...

 

----

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin

Edited September 28, 2008 by 林愛偉

[Li Jiong]

Li Jiong,

 

I am not looking to argue. Also, to even have to attain a level to distinguish them is ridiculous in and of itself. Why do so? Why do humans have to always label, and put certain things on a hierarchical status? That , in and of itself, is no high attainment, and I don't want it.

 

Sorry brother, but having to attain a level where I can distinguish the highs and lows is not an attainment worth going for. I am reaching for neither high nor low. A state where the words of the Dao De jing and the Buddha Dharma all do not exist, do not need to not exist.

 

That is a place you haven't reached for sure, and I myself am going for. To tell you straight up, the Dao De Jing is very direct indeed, but with all the commentaries on it, no one is going to reach the level of actual sagehood through Laozi's teachings. The same goes for Buddhism as well...too many egocentric people claiming to know the pure doctrine lead millions off the path. Its unfortunate, but it is here in our world. Two great teachings mixed into the dust and grime... some get it and some don't. When you get it, it is thus Heavenly Blessings, and when you don't it is simply your own misfortunes.

 

Next thing we will hear about is people claiming they understand the Dao De Jing, and that they are sages. What a joke.

 

I wrote the below to a brother of the cultivation of the Way, and thus, I will post it here as well:

 

Buddhism is about cultivation, attaining wisdom and becoming a Buddha, which only those who cultivate the teachings of the Buddha Dharma will attain. Those who talk about Buddhism as though they are an authority on the teachings, but do not cultivate Buddhism, are deviant, and will cause millions of living beings to remain confused and enter the hell realms of their mind.

 

One cannot attain Buddha hood unless they are cultivating the Proper Buddha Dharma. Plain and Simple. All this talk from people about how Buddhism is this and that is just clouds in the sky. They will never know the real and proper Dharma if it hit them right in the face..and unfortunately, it has hit them in the face, and no one has recognized it.

 

When one truly understands Buddha Dharma, the world and all those things said to be of the world come into view, and are seen for what they are...

 

----

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin

Actually, it is you label them, not me. I just state a simple fact, then you come out so many words, so many labels.

[林愛偉]

Actually, it is you label them, not me. I just state a simple fact, then you come out so many words, so many labels.

 

 

Nice. Very nice. Yes, it is a me that wrote many words..really? How much more word play is

going to be used.

 

Directly expounding the teachings, living beings remain confused. In the confusion they claim others to be confused.

 

Looking through dust, one sees dust.

When will living beings just stop looking through?

 

Peace,

Lin

[mYTHmAKER]

We know Lao Tzu was actually a real person, he has achieved a very high level of spiritual cultivation, much higher than Sakyamuni, Jesu or Mohammed.

But if you think it is an illusion created by a certain group of people, that's your freedom, I don't mind, I think Lao Tzu won't mind as well

 

I find it interesting that most everyone claims the founder - for lack of a better word- of the philosophy or religion they ascribe has reached a higher state than all the others or their way is the only way or the best.

These are no more than judgments and speculations. What if the path we've invested our hopes in is not the correct one - oh oh!

There are many paths - many great beings - many we have never even heard of. Higher? Lower?

this is nonsense and driven by ego.

If you are more evolved than I am I have no way of knowing how evolved you are but you are able to see how far I've come. You can see your teacher is more evolved than you are but you have no idea of what he has achieved compared to how much one is capable of achieving. So none of us are in a position to know which great being is top dog.

But what do I know

Edited September 28, 2008 by mYTHmAKER

[Li Jiong]

Nice. Very nice. Yes, it is a me that wrote many words..really? How much more word play is

going to be used.

 

Directly expounding the teachings, living beings remain confused. In the confusion they claim others to be confused.

 

Looking through dust, one sees dust.

When will living beings just stop looking through?

 

Peace,

Lin

I just want to talk about the truth, and I do not like someone so untruthful, nothing more.

I can help people on their cultivation, it is a fact; I need money, it is a fact too. As for others, who is high, and who is low, actually I don't mind, but sometime if we talk these topics, I also do not want to tell a lie, it is not worthy to make lie on these inessential things.

[Li Jiong]

If you are more evolved than I am I have no way of knowing how evolved you are but you are able to see how far I've come. You can see your teacher is more evolved than you are but you have no idea of what he has achieved compared to how much one is capable of achieving. So none of us are in a position to know which great being is top dog.

But what do I know

You are right, I don't know what Laozi has achieved yet, I just know he goes much farther than me now, but I clearly know how far Buddha has come, so I know Laozi goes farther than Buddha.

[mYTHmAKER]

You are right, I don't know what Laozi has achieved yet, I just know he goes much farther than me now, but I clearly know how far Buddha has come, so I know Laozi goes farther than Buddha.

 

Congratulations you have traveled further than the Buddah. I bow wow to you

[Zhan Zhuang]

I need money .

 

Enough said

[Vajrasattva]

We know Lao Tzu was actually a real person, he has achieved a very high level of spiritual cultivation, much higher than Sakyamuni, Jesu or Mohammed.

But if you think it is an illusion created by a certain group of people, that's your freedom, I don't mind, I think Lao Tzu won't mind as well

 

Li Jiong,

 

Excuse me but how do you rationalize this?? By what standard?

 

Do you train in Jesus's exact esoteric methods? Or Sakyamuni's methods, or Muhammad P.B.U.H?

 

 

Can you tell me the methods? Can you tell me even one method of Muhammad P.B.U.H?

 

Peace,

 

Santiago

Edited September 29, 2008 by Vajrasattva

[Vajrasattva]

here is another one for you to think about cultivation......what about...Methuselah ?

 

{According to the Bible, he reached the age of 969 years. Genesis 5:27 states, "And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died" (American Standard Version). Genesis 5:5 states, "So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years, and he died." (American Standard Version). Assuming Adam's life began at the time of creation, Adam was alive when Methuselah was born. This makes Methuselah the human link between Adam and Noah (assuming Methuselah died at the time of the flood, or at least after Noah's birth).}

[wudangquan]

I'm largely ignorant about matters of Buddhist religion, but isn't there a clear hierarchy of enlightenment?

 

Like human in the 3 realms, Arhat, Tathagata, etc.?

 

If a Tathagata Buddha is higher than an Arhat can't there be something higher than a Tathagata?

 

(I'm asking, not suggesting).

[Spirit Ape]

Lin,

 

I feel you are against Daoism for some reason?

 

Li Jong,

 

What proof do you have of Lao Tzu, do you know if he was a Daoist Wizard or magician and what was his Cultivation methods for eg: seated meditation or moving meditation?

 

Spirit ape

[林愛偉]

You are right, I don't know what Laozi has achieved yet, I just know he goes much farther than me now, but I clearly know how far Buddha has come, so I know Laozi goes farther than Buddha.

 

 

Li jiong,

 

Are you saying you are a Buddha? I doubt it HIGHLY!

 

You don't know how far Buddha has come. You read an idea about how far Buddha has come,

but in actuality, if you read a Buddhist Sutra, and cultivated the teachings therein, you would possibly

realize that to know the Buddha's state is to become a Buddha. You my friend, have not realized that state.

 

Stage one Bodhisattvas do not know the conscious state of Stage two Bodhisattvas, but Stage two Bodhisattvas clearly understand Stage one, and sit by to watch the mistakes, and help in here and there.

 

Please do not tell people this deviant nonsense about distinguishing Buddha and Lao Zi. It only creates more false thinking. And so far, you are harboring a lot.

 

You actually think "Buddha" is a person, a human, that still exists. He could, but Buddha is not a race of Beings! Neither is "Immortal", and neither Lao Zi or the COUNTLESS Buddhas consider themselves to be higher than each other.

 

Its not about religion and who's best, its about cultivation.

 

Still a distinguishing mind you have. Here's a few questions for you:

 

Have you seen Lao Zi lately?

Have you talked to him?

Can you travel the heavens?

 

If not, you have not seen Lao Zi, nor the Jade Emperor and have not traveled the Heavens.

 

Have you yourself ended birth and death?

Are you still moved by desire, greed, anger, ignorance,

money, fame, etc...?

 

If you are still moved by desire, greed, anger, ignorance,money, fame, you are not a Buddha,

nor an Immortal and would not have the merit and virtue to even see Lao Zi, let alone recognize a Buddha when you see one.

 

Why do I even bother with this post in general? One word, Deviant. What you are saying will harm people.

 

You need money: You are not a Buddha. Making money by selling cultivation is not the proper way. Make money doing something else and sustain yourself that way. Do not sell to foreigners because they will believe anything that comes from a man playing Taiji Quan, talking words from Dao De Jing, and wearing a robe.

 

The way of Heaven of the Jade Emperor is simple:

 

As a human do good deeds, care for each other, and cultivate. If the family is not at ease, you will never succeed in cultivation, nor in the world. If you have a family, support the family and do not wish to be any where else; do not take away from the family. Work, but do wholesome work. Do not convince others, but help them in their own endeavors. The merit and virtue accrued will allow you to enter the heavens, but one thought of selfishness will land you right back into the hellsof your own mind.

 

Peace.

 

Lin,

 

I feel you are against Daoism for some reason?

 

 

 

No.

If my Quan Zhen Dao; Hua Shan Pai Shifu were to hear this man's words,

she would tell him to leave the temple instantly and request I never speak with him again.

 

A genuine cultivator finds no difference in the beings who bring wisdom and compassion to living beings.

They look at the teachings expounded to understand the causes for how the living beings attained such teachings.

 

Do you or any one else understand? There is no separating here. Lao Zi, Meng Zi, Kong Zi, Shakyamuni Buddha, Amitabha Buddha, Earth Store Bodhisattva... who's putting each other on a pedestal?

 

It seems people just can't read between the lines.

 

Peace,

Lin

 

I'm largely ignorant about matters of Buddhist religion, but isn't there a clear hierarchy of enlightenment?

 

Like human in the 3 realms, Arhat, Tathagata, etc.?

 

If a Tathagata Buddha is higher than an Arhat can't there be something higher than a Tathagata?

 

(I'm asking, not suggesting).

 

 

The Buddha was an Arhat. 4th Level Arhat. The Buddha was a Human, ordinary in all dealings. The Buddha was a mother, a father, a child, a dog, bird, insect. Which one is higher than the other? All held the Buddha Nature, and all still do...

 

What distinguishes a Realized Buddha from the rest, is that he is Realized, not intellectualized. Complete in Wisdom, there is nothing defiled in his mind.

 

"Karma ended, emotions empty,

defines a true Buddha.

Karma heavy and emotions turbid,

defines a living being."

Edited September 29, 2008 by 林愛偉

[Li Jiong]

Li Jiong,

 

Excuse me but how do you rationalize this?? By what standard?

 

We have our standard of course, I have described the detail in my course 9 (Chinese version available), but I won't tell you here.

 

 

 

Do you train in Jesus's exact esoteric methods? Or Sakyamuni's methods, or Muhammad P.B.U.H?

Can you tell me the methods? Can you tell me even one method of Muhammad P.B.U.H?

 

Peace,

 

Santiago

Perhaps you don't know, before I devote myself to Tao cultivation, I had engaged in Zen cultivation for more than ten years, and I also had studied Bible and Alcoran seriously. Unfortunately, somehow I would not like to tell you anything about them.

[Li Jiong]

Li jiong,

 

Are you saying you are a Buddha? I doubt it HIGHLY!

 

You don't know how far Buddha has come. You read an idea about how far Buddha has come,

but in actuality, if you read a Buddhist Sutra, and cultivated the teachings therein, you would possibly

realize that to know the Buddha's state is to become a Buddha. You my friend, have not realized that state.

 

Stage one Bodhisattvas do not know the conscious state of Stage two Bodhisattvas, but Stage two Bodhisattvas clearly understand Stage one, and sit by to watch the mistakes, and help in here and there.

 

Please do not tell people this deviant nonsense about distinguishing Buddha and Lao Zi. It only creates more false thinking. And so far, you are harboring a lot.

 

You actually think "Buddha" is a person, a human, that still exists. He could, but Buddha is not a race of Beings! Neither is "Immortal", and neither Lao Zi or the COUNTLESS Buddhas consider themselves to be higher than each other.

 

Its not about religion and who's best, its about cultivation.

 

Still a distinguishing mind you have. Here's a few questions for you:

 

Have you seen Lao Zi lately?

Have you talked to him?

Can you travel the heavens?

 

If not, you have not seen Lao Zi, nor the Jade Emperor and have not traveled the Heavens.

 

Have you yourself ended birth and death?

Are you still moved by desire, greed, anger, ignorance,

money, fame, etc...?

 

If you are still moved by desire, greed, anger, ignorance,money, fame, you are not a Buddha,

nor an Immortal and would not have the merit and virtue to even see Lao Zi, let alone recognize a Buddha when you see one.

 

Why do I even bother with this post in general? One word, Deviant. What you are saying will harm people.

 

You need money: You are not a Buddha. Making money by selling cultivation is not the proper way. Make money doing something else and sustain yourself that way. Do not sell to foreigners because they will believe anything that comes from a man playing Taiji Quan, talking words from Dao De Jing, and wearing a robe.

 

The way of Heaven of the Jade Emperor is simple:

 

As a human do good deeds, care for each other, and cultivate. If the family is not at ease, you will never succeed in cultivation, nor in the world. If you have a family, support the family and do not wish to be any where else; do not take away from the family. Work, but do wholesome work. Do not convince others, but help them in their own endeavors. The merit and virtue accrued will allow you to enter the heavens, but one thought of selfishness will land you right back into the hellsof your own mind.

 

Peace.

No.

If my Quan Zhen Dao; Hua Shan Pai Shifu were to hear this man's words,

she would tell him to leave the temple instantly and request I never speak with him again.

 

A genuine cultivator finds no difference in the beings who bring wisdom and compassion to living beings.

They look at the teachings expounded to understand the causes for how the living beings attained such teachings.

 

Do you or any one else understand? There is no separating here. Lao Zi, Meng Zi, Kong Zi, Shakyamuni Buddha, Amitabha Buddha, Earth Store Bodhisattva... who's putting each other on a pedestal?

 

It seems people just can't read between the lines.

 

Peace,

Lin

The Buddha was an Arhat. 4th Level Arhat. The Buddha was a Human, ordinary in all dealings. The Buddha was a mother, a father, a child, a dog, bird, insect. Which one is higher than the other? All held the Buddha Nature, and all still do...

 

What distinguishes a Realized Buddha from the rest, is that he is Realized, not intellectualized. Complete in Wisdom, there is nothing defiled in his mind.

 

"Karma ended, emotions empty,

defines a true Buddha.

Karma heavy and emotions turbid,

defines a living being."

Let me tell you something practical, illusion guy!

After Yang Shen stage, there is just Buddha stage. If my Yang Shen is not false, my Buddha state is also authentic.

Don't be so theoretic and fantastic, you are far from truth already.

[林愛偉]

 

Perhaps you don't know, before I devote myself to Tao cultivation, I had engaged in Zen cultivation for more than ten years, and I also had studied Bible and Alcoran seriously. Unfortunately, somehow I would not like to tell you anything about them.

 

Zen= Chan, Chan=Zen: Same thing, one is Japanese (Zen) spelling, and one is Chinese (Chan).

 

People can cultivate Chan for a whole lifetime and get nowhere. Chan(Zen) cultivation is no easy task. 10yrs of its practice doesn't certify you to anything, nor does it leave you an authority to is contents. To succeed in Chan, is to not seek fame, fortune...to not be moved; To be content with all things, and to not distinguish all things by means of duality, but of wisdom.

 

So telling others you have "Chan experience" for 10 years means nothing. The outcomes of actions are quite obvious

.

---

Seeds planted, the myriad flowers appear.

Ground undefiled, where do the flowers reside?

---

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let me tell you something practical, illusion guy!

After Yang Shen stage, there is just Buddha stage. If my Yang Shen is not false, my Buddha state is also authentic.

Don't be so theoretic and fantastic, you are far from truth already.

 

 

 

Is your Yang Shen stage true?

[Stigweard]

Li jiong,

 

Are you saying you are a Buddha? I doubt it HIGHLY!

 

 

Peace Lin, you dishonour youself by becoming mentally flustered with Li Jiong. He has placed himself beyond our words and our advice and thinks of himself as somehow better then all of us. Perhaps just best to let him be and work it out himself.

 

Regards.

[Vajrasattva]

We have our standard of course, I have described the detail in my course 9 (Chinese version available), but I won't tell you here.

Perhaps you don't know, before I devote myself to Tao cultivation, I had engaged in Zen cultivation for more than ten years, and I also had studied Bible and Alcoran seriously. Unfortunately, somehow I would not like to tell you anything about them.

 

 

Well yes but your lack of any real evidence and lack of actual facts is enough to say you are full of Nutella in the shorts.

 

I mean I could tell you as a person who studied real esoteric buddhism that we have a standard aswell and in that standard Lao Tzu would be just someone who managed a great physical feat. Key word here Physical.

Technically Speaking in esoteric buddhism there is rainbow body and he did not achieve this.

 

Also being someone who studies actual methods of from Muhammad P.B.U.H and true sufi cultivation, your statement does not add up my friend. If you understand from what Muhammad P.B.U.H comes from you would not say the statement that you made.

 

Reading Quran is one thing living it is another.....The holistic aspects of Esoteric Islam are very advanced. I have been through most systems and knowledge and to a certain degree have a certain level of attainment. But this child's play in the grand scheme of things. So is living to be 160 years old. Can you Create a planet? Can you create a real tangible Universe? Can you bring people back from the dead? Cure Masses? Can you transmute instantly the Karma of many? Etc?

 

 

What I see here is you trying to your best at selling a system and that is okay but please for your sake do not degrade other masters nor systems that you clearly DO NOT have any actual training in. If you knew the abilities of the Wali Songo Saints you would not dare to say anything degrading towards the cultivation level of Muhammad P.B.U.H. Since them selves will say the best example of direct path to Allah is Muhammad P.B.U.H.

 

Same thing if you really experienced what the Tathagata is you would not dare degrade the Buddha.

 

So push comes to shove the day your system doesn't bring you to the ripeage of 160 and you have to face your creator then what? Please tell me what technique will get you across that vastness? What will bring you face to face with that which is beyond even the creation itself?

 

If you do have ANY immortality in yourpath its because the creator grants it to you. Not the other way around.

Even your techniques that will toy with spiritual bodies etc all of this is "Spiritual Materialism". What will you do when even that fade?

What will you abide in?

Peace

 

Santiago Dobles

Edited September 29, 2008 by Vajrasattva

[mjjbecker]

 

If you do have ANY immortality in yourpath its because the creator grants it to you. Not the other way around.

Even your techniques that will toy with spiritual bodies etc all of this is "Spiritual Materialism". What will you do when even that fade?

What will you abide in?

Peace

 

Santiago Dobles

 

Words of wisdom as always my brother.

 

Best,

 

Mike

[metzu]

Zen= Chan, Chan=Zen: Same thing, one is Japanese (Zen) spelling, and one is Chinese (Chan).

 

People can cultivate Chan for a whole lifetime and get nowhere. Chan(Zen) cultivation is no easy task. 10yrs of its practice doesn't certify you to anything, nor does it leave you an authority to is contents. To succeed in Chan, is to not seek fame, fortune...to not be moved; To be content with all things, and to not distinguish all things by means of duality, but of wisdom.

 

So telling others you have "Chan experience" for 10 years means nothing. The outcomes of actions are quite obvious

.

---

Seeds planted, the myriad flowers appear.

Ground undefiled, where do the flowers reside?

---

 

 

 

Is your Yang Shen stage true?

 

Lin,

There is a saying I saw or heard somewhere a long time ago, when I thought of getting involved with Buddha,when I had finally untangled myself from the fear of the bible sending me to hell for all eternity.

If you come upon Buddha on the road ,kill him. I would broaden that to say, if you happen upon jesus, mohemed,lao,chuang or any of the pretended masters propelled by their respective governments to god figures, kill them all.The deeper I go into this madness of relegions the more I realize the control and manipulation created by these concepts, all created to seperate us from the here and now and our true nature.

Daoist are taught to not act but perform a certain way rather then respond from the gut honesty of our being.

Christians are taught to turn the other cheek, someone hurts you don't respond, while the government that proclaims this christianity, just kills as it pleases, calling it retribution in the name of their god. Buddha on the other hand says drop out, be a panhandler, the world is a terrible place. Mohamed says when jesus returns he will bring peace, while the christians say when he returns, he will take some of us with him that have been good little boys and girls, the others he will kick their butts for ever.Talk about maddness.

I still contend that all relegions and governments work hand and hand in order to control and manipulate the people. The people on the other hand either submit to the governments and relegions or rebel, those who rebel, seekers of truth find an escape clause through a relegious concept that ultimately is played by the government in two ways, one way," says no way do we want you people to follow these teachings ,(which immediately becomes attractive to the dissidents and they have to followthat particular relegion , because our rebellious nature can't stand anyone telling us "DON'T" the other way says " allow them to do what they want, just keep a close watch on them."This Tao forum is probably monitored by all of the governments for the relegions because it invites all relegions to get involved...................................,opps did I say that.

Am I just a madman ranting, have I been hurt so many times from following these relegions, that my anger is finally found a place to let it go.Today while walking, because of Hagars post about trees, I stopped to look at the trees along "MY WAY", I am fortunate enough my circumstances allows me to live in a neighborhod that has many trees, some very old, their beauty and magnifcence astounded me. The natural world is so so beautiful, full of life and beauty,the human portion is just as beautiful as the rest of NATURE .Even though we hem and haw about what we believe the true way is, look at us we can stand up and walk, we can think, we can talk, we create beautiful music,to dance to,we can embrace loved ones, we can laugh, we cry,breath deeply this awesome aroma we have been gifted to, that our parents before us brought us to and their parents before them, and their parents before them(and the ancients never discussed, and just lived fully and abundantly no matter their circumstance), through the remarkable reproductive process . We are all just children in the playground no matter whether we are 5 or 25 or 65 and we are playing soldier,or cowboy,movie actor,or gardener or..or..or...or..The illusion created outside by medias, is no different then the propaganda of relegious concepts. They take words and they say one thing in one place and in another place say something completely different, they call it a paradox. Know this my friend, a paradox is nothing more than a lie created to confuse the distance between the mind and the heart, and creates dogma and dialogue for more chaos and confusion.I am 68 years old, I look back at my years and the adventure has been fantastic, I played every game, danced every dance,I shot drugs that put me in a stupor, did other drugs that carried me away on the clouds,I loved many and many had their feelings hurt by me as i struggled to find this freedom and truth. Freedom and truth is no more then realizing we all are perfect selves, refuse that you are, and you follow any path that someone says is the way to live your life, and in so doing, we stop feeling and thinking for our selves and become puppets of someone elses path. All are dead ends. My body is crippled up with many diseases caused by the life, I have lived, I wouldn't want it to be any other way. I earned it I am going to live it and enjoy it, even the pain, motivates me ",get up ,get out," it tells me, do something productive ,prune the trees ,clean the shed, take Brandy and Ralph for a walk, Go to the inner harbor with Jeanne, sit at a table, particapate in a sing a long, eat crab cakes and mushrooms(I haven't tried the srooms yet,May be)drink lots of coffe, go out and sit by the water smoke a cigarrete hold hands and walk, in other words , moan and groan because of what we have created for ourselves ,only brings us more chaos, confusion and pain, this dissatisfaction carries us from relegion to relegion to some assholes front door we think is enlightened who will be better at telling how to live then I could ever learn to do myself get up and live life embrace its beauty and ignore the entertainment that just creates the chaos and confusion world wide,relegion.

So what are we here for in this world?

We are all entertainers, we can write our own script or we can act out someone elses the ,choices are always our own.

[Unconditioned]

Lin,

There is a saying I saw or heard somewhere a long time ago, when I thought of getting involved with Buddha,when I had finally untangled myself from the fear of the bible sending me to hell for all eternity.

If you come upon Buddha on the road ,kill him. I would broaden that to say, if you happen upon jesus, mohemed,lao,chuang or any of the pretended masters propelled by their respective governments to god figures, kill them all.The deeper I go into this madness of relegions the more I realize the control and manipulation created by these concepts, all created to seperate us from the here and now and our true nature.

Daoist are taught to not act but perform a certain way rather then respond from the gut honesty of our being.

Christians are taught to turn the other cheek, someone hurts you don't respond, while the government that proclaims this christianity, just kills as it pleases, calling it retribution in the name of their god. Buddha on the other hand says drop out, be a panhandler, the world is a terrible place. Mohamed says when jesus returns he will bring peace, while the christians say when he returns, he will take some of us with him that have been good little boys and girls, the others he will kick their butts for ever.Talk about maddness.

I still contend that all relegions and governments work hand and hand in order to control and manipulate the people. The people on the other hand either submit to the governments and relegions or rebel, those who rebel, seekers of truth find an escape clause through a relegious concept that ultimately is played by the government in two ways, one way," says no way do we want you people to follow these teachings ,(which immediately becomes attractive to the dissidents and they have to followthat particular relegion , because our rebellious nature can't stand anyone telling us "DON'T" the other way says " allow them to do what they want, just keep a close watch on them."This Tao forum is probably monitored by all of the governments for the relegions because it invites all relegions to get involved...................................,opps did I say that.

Am I just a madman ranting, have I been hurt so many times from following these relegions, that my anger is finally found a place to let it go.Today while walking, because of Hagars post about trees, I stopped to look at the trees along "MY WAY", I am fortunate enough my circumstances allows me to live in a neighborhod that has many trees, some very old, their beauty and magnifcence astounded me. The natural world is so so beautiful, full of life and beauty,the human portion is just as beautiful as the rest of NATURE .Even though we hem and haw about what we believe the true way is, look at us we can stand up and walk, we can think, we can talk, we create beautiful music,to dance to,we can embrace loved ones, we can laugh, we cry,breath deeply this awesome aroma we have been gifted to, that our parents before us brought us to and their parents before them, and their parents before them(and the ancients never discussed, and just lived fully and abundantly no matter their circumstance), through the remarkable reproductive process . We are all just children in the playground no matter whether we are 5 or 25 or 65 and we are playing soldier,or cowboy,movie actor,or gardener or..or..or...or..The illusion created outside by medias, is no different then the propaganda of relegious concepts. They take words and they say one thing in one place and in another place say something completely different, they call it a paradox. Know this my friend, a paradox is nothing more than a lie created to confuse the distance between the mind and the heart, and creates dogma and dialogue for more chaos and confusion.I am 68 years old, I look back at my years and the adventure has been fantastic, I played every game, danced every dance,I shot drugs that put me in a stupor, did other drugs that carried me away on the clouds,I loved many and many had their feelings hurt by me as i struggled to find this freedom and truth. Freedom and truth is no more then realizing we all are perfect selves, refuse that you are, and you follow any path that someone says is the way to live your life, and in so doing, we stop feeling and thinking for our selves and become puppets of someone elses path. All are dead ends. My body is crippled up with many diseases caused by the life, I have lived, I wouldn't want it to be any other way. I earned it I am going to live it and enjoy it, even the pain, motivates me ",get up ,get out," it tells me, do something productive ,prune the trees ,clean the shed, take Brandy and Ralph for a walk, Go to the inner harbor with Jeanne, sit at a table, particapate in a sing a long, eat crab cakes and mushrooms(I haven't tried the srooms yet,May be)drink lots of coffe, go out and sit by the water smoke a cigarrete hold hands and walk, in other words , moan and groan because of what we have created for ourselves ,only brings us more chaos, confusion and pain, this dissatisfaction carries us from relegion to relegion to some assholes front door we think is enlightened who will be better at telling how to live then I could ever learn to do myself get up and live life embrace its beauty and ignore the entertainment that just creates the chaos and confusion world wide,relegion.

So what are we here for in this world?

We are all entertainers, we can write our own script or we can act out someone elses the ,choices are always our own.

 

Metzu,

 

First I respect your sincerity. Far too often we surpress things which only lead to more knots that will need to be unraveled.

 

I can absolutely relate to your points. I was in a Christian 'church' where the main goal was to 'save others' (aka recruit them so the church could bring in more $$$). I spent my entire teenage years there being controlled and missing out on some of the greatest times of my youth.

 

So that said, I feel where you're coming from and I understand the frustration. People are being sold a pretty packaged with the label "Salvation!" but it's just an empty box. I would call this 'religion' or 'dogma' as it relates to my experiences.

 

BUT these are religious traditions. Traditions are like the telephone game - they start out one way and end up completely different. The leaders of the major religious traditions may have known Truth in it's pure form and wanted to help others find the same. But, to describe Truth using words is not possible. We can try, but it is only an idea about Truth, not Truth itself.

 

So after thousands of years, changes in language, incorrect interpretations (usually symbolism taken literally), greed, lust for power, etc. these teachings have been used to serve many purposes - most not their intended purpose.

 

At the end of the day, religion CAN provide a path to wisdom/Truth but there are much more direct methods - such as the Guru within each of us, the nature of our nature, that if we pay attention to will liberate us, enlighten us, and guide us to Truth.

 

With much respect,

-Nate

[mYTHmAKER]

Lin,

There is a saying I saw or heard somewhere a long time ago, when I thought of getting involved with Buddha,when I had finally untangled myself from the fear of the bible sending me to hell for all eternity.

If you come upon Buddha on the road ,kill him. I would broaden that to say, if you happen upon jesus, mohemed,lao,chuang or any of the pretended masters propelled by their respective governments to god figures, kill them all.The deeper I go into this madness of relegions the more I realize the control and manipulation created by these concepts, all created to seperate us from the here and now and our true nature.

Daoist are taught to not act but perform a certain way rather then respond from the gut honesty of our being.

Christians are taught to turn the other cheek, someone hurts you don't respond, while the government that proclaims this christianity, just kills as it pleases, calling it retribution in the name of their god. Buddha on the other hand says drop out, be a panhandler, the world is a terrible place. Mohamed says when jesus returns he will bring peace, while the christians say when he returns, he will take some of us with him that have been good little boys and girls, the others he will kick their butts for ever.Talk about maddness.

I still contend that all relegions and governments work hand and hand in order to control and manipulate the people. The people on the other hand either submit to the governments and relegions or rebel, those who rebel, seekers of truth find an escape clause through a relegious concept that ultimately is played by the government in two ways, one way," says no way do we want you people to follow these teachings ,(which immediately becomes attractive to the dissidents and they have to followthat particular relegion , because our rebellious nature can't stand anyone telling us "DON'T" the other way says " allow them to do what they want, just keep a close watch on them."This Tao forum is probably monitored by all of the governments for the relegions because it invites all relegions to get involved...................................,opps did I say that.

Am I just a madman ranting, have I been hurt so many times from following these relegions, that my anger is finally found a place to let it go.Today while walking, because of Hagars post about trees, I stopped to look at the trees along "MY WAY", I am fortunate enough my circumstances allows me to live in a neighborhod that has many trees, some very old, their beauty and magnifcence astounded me. The natural world is so so beautiful, full of life and beauty,the human portion is just as beautiful as the rest of NATURE .Even though we hem and haw about what we believe the true way is, look at us we can stand up and walk, we can think, we can talk, we create beautiful music,to dance to,we can embrace loved ones, we can laugh, we cry,breath deeply this awesome aroma we have been gifted to, that our parents before us brought us to and their parents before them, and their parents before them(and the ancients never discussed, and just lived fully and abundantly no matter their circumstance), through the remarkable reproductive process . We are all just children in the playground no matter whether we are 5 or 25 or 65 and we are playing soldier,or cowboy,movie actor,or gardener or..or..or...or..The illusion created outside by medias, is no different then the propaganda of relegious concepts. They take words and they say one thing in one place and in another place say something completely different, they call it a paradox. Know this my friend, a paradox is nothing more than a lie created to confuse the distance between the mind and the heart, and creates dogma and dialogue for more chaos and confusion.I am 68 years old, I look back at my years and the adventure has been fantastic, I played every game, danced every dance,I shot drugs that put me in a stupor, did other drugs that carried me away on the clouds,I loved many and many had their feelings hurt by me as i struggled to find this freedom and truth. Freedom and truth is no more then realizing we all are perfect selves, refuse that you are, and you follow any path that someone says is the way to live your life, and in so doing, we stop feeling and thinking for our selves and become puppets of someone elses path. All are dead ends. My body is crippled up with many diseases caused by the life, I have lived, I wouldn't want it to be any other way. I earned it I am going to live it and enjoy it, even the pain, motivates me ",get up ,get out," it tells me, do something productive ,prune the trees ,clean the shed, take Brandy and Ralph for a walk, Go to the inner harbor with Jeanne, sit at a table, particapate in a sing a long, eat crab cakes and mushrooms(I haven't tried the srooms yet,May be)drink lots of coffe, go out and sit by the water smoke a cigarrete hold hands and walk, in other words , moan and groan because of what we have created for ourselves ,only brings us more chaos, confusion and pain, this dissatisfaction carries us from relegion to relegion to some assholes front door we think is enlightened who will be better at telling how to live then I could ever learn to do myself get up and live life embrace its beauty and ignore the entertainment that just creates the chaos and confusion world wide,relegion.

So what are we here for in this world?

We are all entertainers, we can write our own script or we can act out someone elses the ,choices are always our own.

 

Amen

Edited September 29, 2008 by mYTHmAKER

[Vajrasattva]

Lin,

There is a saying I saw or heard somewhere a long time ago, when I thought of getting involved with Buddha,when I had finally untangled myself from the fear of the bible sending me to hell for all eternity.

If you come upon Buddha on the road ,kill him. I would broaden that to say, if you happen upon jesus, mohemed,lao,chuang or any of the pretended masters propelled by their respective governments to god figures, kill them all.The deeper I go into this madness of relegions the more I realize the control and manipulation created by these concepts, all created to seperate us from the here and now and our true nature.

Daoist are taught to not act but perform a certain way rather then respond from the gut honesty of our being.

Christians are taught to turn the other cheek, someone hurts you don't respond, while the government that proclaims this christianity, just kills as it pleases, calling it retribution in the name of their god. Buddha on the other hand says drop out, be a panhandler, the world is a terrible place. Mohamed says when jesus returns he will bring peace, while the christians say when he returns, he will take some of us with him that have been good little boys and girls, the others he will kick their butts for ever.Talk about maddness.

I still contend that all relegions and governments work hand and hand in order to control and manipulate the people. The people on the other hand either submit to the governments and relegions or rebel, those who rebel, seekers of truth find an escape clause through a relegious concept that ultimately is played by the government in two ways, one way," says no way do we want you people to follow these teachings ,(which immediately becomes attractive to the dissidents and they have to followthat particular relegion , because our rebellious nature can't stand anyone telling us "DON'T" the other way says " allow them to do what they want, just keep a close watch on them."This Tao forum is probably monitored by all of the governments for the relegions because it invites all relegions to get involved...................................,opps did I say that.

Am I just a madman ranting, have I been hurt so many times from following these relegions, that my anger is finally found a place to let it go.Today while walking, because of Hagars post about trees, I stopped to look at the trees along "MY WAY", I am fortunate enough my circumstances allows me to live in a neighborhod that has many trees, some very old, their beauty and magnifcence astounded me. The natural world is so so beautiful, full of life and beauty,the human portion is just as beautiful as the rest of NATURE .Even though we hem and haw about what we believe the true way is, look at us we can stand up and walk, we can think, we can talk, we create beautiful music,to dance to,we can embrace loved ones, we can laugh, we cry,breath deeply this awesome aroma we have been gifted to, that our parents before us brought us to and their parents before them, and their parents before them(and the ancients never discussed, and just lived fully and abundantly no matter their circumstance), through the remarkable reproductive process . We are all just children in the playground no matter whether we are 5 or 25 or 65 and we are playing soldier,or cowboy,movie actor,or gardener or..or..or...or..The illusion created outside by medias, is no different then the propaganda of relegious concepts. They take words and they say one thing in one place and in another place say something completely different, they call it a paradox. Know this my friend, a paradox is nothing more than a lie created to confuse the distance between the mind and the heart, and creates dogma and dialogue for more chaos and confusion.I am 68 years old, I look back at my years and the adventure has been fantastic, I played every game, danced every dance,I shot drugs that put me in a stupor, did other drugs that carried me away on the clouds,I loved many and many had their feelings hurt by me as i struggled to find this freedom and truth. Freedom and truth is no more then realizing we all are perfect selves, refuse that you are, and you follow any path that someone says is the way to live your life, and in so doing, we stop feeling and thinking for our selves and become puppets of someone elses path. All are dead ends. My body is crippled up with many diseases caused by the life, I have lived, I wouldn't want it to be any other way. I earned it I am going to live it and enjoy it, even the pain, motivates me ",get up ,get out," it tells me, do something productive ,prune the trees ,clean the shed, take Brandy and Ralph for a walk, Go to the inner harbor with Jeanne, sit at a table, particapate in a sing a long, eat crab cakes and mushrooms(I haven't tried the srooms yet,May be)drink lots of coffe, go out and sit by the water smoke a cigarrete hold hands and walk, in other words , moan and groan because of what we have created for ourselves ,only brings us more chaos, confusion and pain, this dissatisfaction carries us from relegion to relegion to some assholes front door we think is enlightened who will be better at telling how to live then I could ever learn to do myself get up and live life embrace its beauty and ignore the entertainment that just creates the chaos and confusion world wide,relegion.

So what are we here for in this world?

We are all entertainers, we can write our own script or we can act out someone elses the ,choices are always our own.

 

 

Religion & Esoteric Practices within religions are 2 separate things...all religions come from esoteric principles.