Secrets of Universe

[松永道]

I think this 'dream' is a very nice one but one that can hardly materialize.

...

I think this depends on the fact that Daoism is very much a "personal" endevour, a solitary and personal path.

The pratictioner is very much concerned in walking up his path of development and sees 'external' knowledge as a disturbance - very much like a student of medicine would not want to loose time talking scholastic/learning issues with a student of engineering.

 

Historically speaking, in Daoism, the relationship is always very much a student/teacher and not a peer-peer one***. Cross pollination is fundamental to growth and this is very common in Daoism of course but that is done again by student/teacher relationship. A student of a certain line, going up his path, often seek assistance, guidance and new material from teachers of other lines - but always as a solitary and personal endevour.

 

Maybe this is something 'western Daoism' can do better than Chinese Daoism ?

 

YM

 

*** peer-peer relationship is common with Shamanism in China

 

I may still be very naive to the Dao in this regard, but I don't see external knowledge as a disturbance.

 

...The nameless is the beginning of heaven and Earth.

The named is the mother of the ten thousand things.

Ever desireless, one can see the mystery.

Ever desiring, one sees the manifestations.

These two spring from the same source but differ in name...

 

Admittedly, external knowledge isn't where the real wonder resides, mystery hides away from names and forms. Nonetheless, the internal and external spring from the same source. The Chinese saying is Tian Ren He Yi (天人合一), "Heaven and Man are One," in the west we said, "As Above, So Below."

 

Should a medical student take no interest in other subjects, I'd say they're too narrow minded. The Huangdi Nei Jing, Yellow Emperor's Internal Classic is the foundational text of classical Chinese medicine. However, the text itself reads more like a Hitchhikers' Guide to the Galaxy. Movements and disharmonies in the heavens on earth and in man are all discussed for they. They share the same patterns, after all, they all stem from the same origin. And the real beauty is, every one of the ten thousand things expresses the same patterns uniquely. They're but different faces and facets of the same mystery. And therein a doctor can learn about engineering and just maybe gain new insight into medicine.

 

So as you say, cross pollination is fundamental to growth and I'll add, evolution.

 

When Daoism first started becoming organized in the Han Dynasty period all people were accepted for but an offering of five bushels of rice. The result was an intense cultivation and healing community and the beginning of Daoist cultivation science. I call it cultivation science because, in this setting, personal cultivation was communal, systematic, and reproducible. Essentially, it was one of the enlightenment periods of Daoist science. But as it ended, as all enlightenment periods do, the community atmosphere dispersed to little pockets here and there and under different cultural climates secrecy came to be prioritized over science. Nothing wrong with that, Yang sleeps underground through the winter to rise again and blossom another year. So I ask, is it summer yet? No maybe not, but is it spring?

 

My sister likes to say, "Sangha (community) is the Dharma of the West." And it seems a fitting complement. For China's collective nature, the practice of Dao must first be a study of individuality. But in the West, especially America, our Dharma, our challenge is community. Yang seeds flourish in the most Yin of soils.

 

Maybe 'western Daoism' can learn this lesson better.

 

Peace,

Xiao Song

[Spirit Ape]

Li Jong,

 

With your practices is it a combination of Yi Quan, Bagua, hsing yi and ??? that make the xianji matrix?

 

Also can you do what Max does with his students?

 

Ape

[thelerner]

I haven't learned any secrets of the universe from this topic, but its reinforced my admiration for Lin's breadth of knowledge and state of cultivation.

 

 

Michael

[Taiji Bum]

I haven't learned any secrets of the universe from this topic, but its reinforced my admiration for Lin's breadth of knowledge and state of cultivation.

Michael

Ditto

[林愛偉]

[Li Jiong]

Li Jong,

 

With your practices is it a combination of Yi Quan, Bagua, hsing yi and ??? that make the xianji matrix?

 

Also can you do what Max does with his students?

 

Ape

No.

And I don't know who Max is.

[Li Jiong]

I haven't learned any secrets of the universe from this topic, but its reinforced my admiration for Lin's breadth of knowledge and state of cultivation.

Michael

So glad to hear that you haven't learned any secrets of the universe from this topic, I just want to help saveable ones, I am not interested in enlightening someone beyond redemption.

[Zhan Zhuang]

I am not interested in enlightening someone beyond redemption.

 

You sound like a Jehovas Witness and not a compassionate being at all. Who are you to judge who can and cannot 'be saved'? To be saved from what exactly ? And by who/what ?

You really need to do some of your own self questioning. You seem very bitter to those who do not buy your 'courses' or who criticize your methods.

This is not The Way, not at all.

Try selling your 'secret methods' elsewhere.

[Gerard]

I haven't learned any secrets of the universe from this topic, but its reinforced my admiration for Lin's breadth of knowledge and state of cultivation.

Michael

 

 

What other secrets are you after?

 

Have you read anything written by Nagarjuna?

 

 

Cheers.

[.broken.]

You sound like a Jehovas Witness and not a compassionate being at all. Who are you to judge who can and cannot 'be saved'? To be saved from what exactly ? And by who/what ?

You really need to do some of your own self questioning. You seem very bitter to those who do not buy your 'courses' or who criticize your methods.

This is not The Way, not at all.

Try selling your 'secret methods' elsewhere.

 

Not compassionate? Wow, here he is trying to save the ones he can and you call that a lack of compassion. He isn't the one who judges who can and cannot be saved, it is those who read his writings that judge for themselves. If one doesn't see anything redeeming in Li Jiong's posts then they have decided for themselves that they are not worth saving for Li Jiong. He simply doesn't want to waste time and energy attempting to convert non-believers, so to speak (unlike Jehovah's Witnesses).

 

Compassion requires understanding of another's situation. Situation in this sense includes cultural background, karmic conditioning and emotional state. I ask that you understand Li Jiong's situation, and investigate why you are responding with to something you perceive as intolerable.

 

Yours humbly,

James

[Tao99]

Edited October 11, 2008 by Tao99

[林愛偉]

Taoism existed long before the Buddha was born. Taoism has its own vast literature describing its beliefs and practices. There is no need to read Buddhist Sutras to be a Taoist or study Taoism. In fact it will get in the way as some of the core beliefs are completely different. If one wants to understand Buddhism, read the Sutras. If one wants to understand Taoism, read the Taoist Canon.

 

 

There was another Buddha of our world before Shakyamuni. Not 2,000yrs before, not 3000yrs either.

Before the name Daoism, it was just a style of living, but not everyone was immortal. The Buddha Dharma has been in this world for a very very very long time. Whose to say that Daoism didn't come from Buddhism, Buddhism didn't come from Daoism, and whose to say that maybe the cultivation methods of this world all were from the same source, only that people in their ignorance gave it a title, and became attached?

 

This is one of the key differences for us Taoists. In Taoism the body, mind and spirit are studied with equal emphasis, and energy work is employed as a central tenet. This is not found in the Buddhist Sutras. And of course the Buddhist doctrine is that there is no spirit, no central self-entity at the ground of mind. There are only the selfless, empty 5 skandhas. This is completely opposite of our Taoist doctrine, and can never be reconciled with it. Thus, because of this core difference the two ways can never pretend they are the same.

 

It is in Buddhist sutras, but people are looking for every spelled out without doing the hard work. There ultimately is nothing. Why? Because originally there was nothing, therefore no thought of there being anything immortal exists. This is why Buddhist teachings reach a point where all things are the same, without distinctions. No immortality, because there is no death and no life. No spirit because there is no human, animal, ghost,demon or God, let alone immortal. Wanting to cling to these ideas is what causes differences.

 

"The true nature of the human being is the original spirit." The Cultivation of Realization (1739)

 

In Taoism we have the core beliefs of the immortal foetus, spirit, the indestructible diamond body, and Buddhists can never agree to this. They are two different ways, and that is fine.

 

Buddhist, for the sake of cultivation, do have the Diamond Body. Wha tis it but the Vajra Body, what is that but the indestructible and unmoving original nature of all things. Just sitting in the lotus position is taking on the seat of the Diamond body.

 

Lin Wrote:

A Sutra is to be read, and re-read, cultivated and investigated till your 6 senses have been purified.

 

You wrote

For a Buddhist yes, but in no way necessary for a Taoist. We have our own Taoist Canon.

 

The Daoist cannon utilized much of Buddhist educational cultivation...hence Quan Zhen Dao; Buddhism, Confucianism and Daoism. What was utilized was the cultivation of purity of heart and mind, because Daoist developed high egos, and arrogance unmatched due to their attainments of spiritual abilities.

 

 

Maybe its knowing all the Buddhist Dharma doors but it is in no way knowing the unique Taoist way.

 

The Daoist way is yet another Dharma Door.

 

Taoists have no interest in being "Buddhas". That is what Buddhists strive for. We Taoists strive for becoming Immortals of the indestructible diamond body, and don't need any knowledge of this "Buddha" you speak of, which in fact is a completely different type of phenomenon (selfless emptiness)

 

Phenomenon, Neumenon... On the contrary, Daoist will eventually become Buddhas, realized Buddhas that is. Not all Daoists see through your views. The many I met held high regard for Buddhist cultivation, studied Buddhist sutras and cultivated Buddhist mantras because the mantras of Buddhism do not bring harm to the cultivator as do a lot of Daoist cultivation methods known and sold today as genuine.

 

 

 

 

One may achieve their goal, but the view of achieving plants the causes of insatiability. Buddhists don't achieve anything, in general, no one achieves anything. Words are used to say there is attainment, but those words are the expedients to tame the mind.

 

This is a good idea maybe for Buddhists to do and practice, but not compatible or necessary for Taoists. We have our own beliefs and practices that existed before the Buddha was even born. Leave the Buddhist Doctrine for the Buddhists, and allow us Taoists to practice our own unique Canon.

 

If you want to discuss Buddhist ideas you should try a Buddhist website like e-sangha.com. They would be very receptive to your comments on your Buddhist Sutras and ideas. But don't try to tell them there that Buddhism and Taoism are the same, as they will quickly and vehemently tell you what I said above.

 

Do you even know what Daoism is?

You speak quickly and vehemently... if that way is true Daoist, then I am glad I don't know that Daoism.

 

I am no one here. But I have seen people with your views for a long time, and even live with people who hold some of those views. Their lives are angry, frustrated, sick, confused, and or any one of them, as well as too full.

Hard to let go of their views, they scratch and scream on the walls to maintain their state of mind.

As said earlier, Shakyamuni Buddha was only the second Buddha in our world. There was one before him. And in our world, many Buddhas have come to teach, and have gone to their own place to teach. They are here in this world now, come and go as they please, and in many different incarnations. Some show as Daoist Immomrtals, and some show as a lowly beggar... who has the eyes to recognize them?

 

Recorded, I have heard Daoism has 8,000yrs history, but it definetly has changed over its time. Buddhism goes back way before 8,000yrs ago. Not even all the teachings are utilized in this world due to the state of living beings. There is so much, just the capacity of understanding it hasn't been "achieved".

 

Truthfully speaking, I have not met one Daoist cultivator, left home Daoist that is, ever bad mouth Buddhism. Be them from Zheng Yi Sect or Quan Zhen. Those of true and clear wisdom know that the difference between Buddhism and Daoism lies in the views that there is indeed a Black and a White people, American and an Asian people, etc.

They know that people are people; they all need to breathe, eat, sleep and go to the bathroom. Cultivation is cultivation; all methods can raise or lower one's mind.

 

Putting anyone person or method higher than another only causes more and more problems.

 

Be well.

Peace and Blessings,

Lin

Edited October 11, 2008 by 林愛偉

[Vajrasattva]

Secret of Universe....is

 

 

[林愛偉]

Secret of Universe....is

 

 

smile.gif

 

 

Indeed!

[mat black]

maybe the cultivation methods of this world all were from the same source, only that people in their ignorance gave it a title, and became attached?

It's like someone saying "i'll drink the rain that falls here, but not over there."

Edited October 12, 2008 by mat black

[Tao99]

 

Whose to say that Daoism didn't come from Buddhism, Buddhism didn't come from Daoism ... Recorded, I have heard Daoism has 8,000yrs history, but it definetly has changed over its time. Buddhism goes back way before 8,000yrs ago.

 

Its you who is here "bad mouthing" as you accuse me. All I said is that "they are two ways, and that's fine." And I said that every Buddhist and Taoist knows that one is a way of no self (anatta), and one is a way of the spirit - a self-entity. These are just facts everyone knows, and knows they can't be reconciled. I didn't bad mouth Buddhism, nor speak with any anger as you accused me. I simply stated the well-known facts. Everything else is in your imagination. But since you have just bad-mouthed Taoism as a valuable way in its own right, I will say now that Taoism, being the universal way beyond (before) words, one could make the case that it has always existed and so is the source of all truth. But of course, normally I don't get into these fruitless, insulting academic debates that only bad mouth other people's way. As you yourself said:

 

"Putting anyone person or method higher than another only causes more and more problems."

 

In my post I never did this. You should follow your own advice about what you accused me unfairly of.

 

It is in Buddhist sutras, but people are looking for every spelled out without doing the hard work.

 

The "rainbow body" is not found in the Sutras. The Sutras are texts composed of teachings that came directly from the historical Buddha. It was a later addition developed in Southern India and China and is a secret part of the Dzochen school. It does not mean a spirit or self-entity, but the Five Pure Lights (skandhas). If it meant spirit, they would not be a Buddhist school. But you said the Sutras of the historical Buddha should be read by Taoists, and what I said is that is not necessary and they are not compatible. Taoism existed before they were spoken/written and has its own Canon that differs. This is a simple fact.

 

Before the name Daoism, it was just a style of living, but not everyone was immortal.

 

This is more bad-mouthing of the Tao and putting your way higher again. The Tao, even in the time of the Yellow Emperor, was a comprehensive, profound philosophy of life. Also, since you brought it up, the vast majority of Buddhists never attain enlightenment. Actually classical Buddhism of the Sutras says its all but impossible.

 

No immortality, because there is no death and no life. No spirit because there is no human, animal, ghost,demon or God, let alone immortal. Wanting to cling to these ideas is what causes differences.

 

This is more bad-mouthing of the Tao and putting your way higher again. What I said is that they are two different ways, and that's fine. We believe in spirit and immortality. And its simply an insult to come on a Taoist website and tell us we are wrong and should convert to Buddhism. Our way is to say live and let live, to each their own, and not go onto Buddhist website and tell them they are wrong and should convert to Taoism.

 

Buddhist, for the sake of cultivation, do have the Diamond Body. Wha tis it but the Vajra Body, what is that but the indestructible and unmoving original nature of all things. Just sitting in the lotus position is taking on the seat of the Diamond body.

 

Again, the "rainbow body" is not found in the Sutras. The Sutras are texts composed of teachings that came directly from the historical Buddha. It was a later addition developed in Southern India and China (ironic?) and is a secret part of the Dzochen school. It does not mean a spirit or self-entity, but the Five Pure Lights (skandhas). If it meant spirit, they would not be a Buddhist school. But you said the Sutras of the historical Buddha should be read by Taoists, and what I said is that is not necessary and they are not compatible. Taoism existed before they were spoken/written and has its own Canon that differs. This is a simple fact.

 

On the contrary, Daoist will eventually become Buddhas, realized Buddhas that is.

 

This is more bad-mouthing of the Tao and putting your way higher again. Taoists attain their own vision of enlightenment without any need of becoming a Buddha, as they have prescribed for 5000 years. That is just another slighting insult, trying to convert the heathens to Buddhism.

 

Not all Daoists see through your views. The many I met held high regard for Buddhist cultivation, studied Buddhist sutras and cultivated Buddhist mantras because the mantras of Buddhism do not bring harm to the cultivator as do a lot of Daoist cultivation methods known and sold today as genuine.

 

Ungenuine methods are by definition not Taoist methods. Taoists have warned about these for hundreds of years. That is no reason to curse Taoism. There are Buddhists cults doing the same thing today, and you can read about them on e-sangha.com, from where they are banned. But I wouldn't use this to curse Buddhism as you just did to me. In fact I said nothing bad about Buddhism. I said "they are two different ways and that is fine." I would like to hear you say the same thing. I simply said that doctrines spirit and anatta (no self) can't be reconciled, and that is fine, to each their own, find what moves you. This is just a simple well-known fact. I would like to hear you acknowledge this and say the same.

 

Do you even know what Daoism is? You speak quickly and vehemently... if that way is true Daoist, then I am glad I don't know that Daoism.

 

Yes I am a 25 year practitioner. "Vehemently" simply means strongly, and the moderators at e-sangha will react quickly and vehemently if you tell them Buddhism and Taoism are the same. Just try it. I also studied Zen with Zen Master Ming Qi of Bailin Temple China, and received transmission and permission to teach. But I stayed with Taoism as my own personal choice because I believe in spirit, and the energy work of Taoism. I don't bad mouth Buddhism or put my way higher and didn't, as you did consistently. There are some interesting meditation techniques in Chinese Zen (Chan). But I do acknowledge the differences, and once again, they are two different ways and that's fine.

 

I am no one here. But I have seen people with your views for a long time, and even live with people who hold some of those views. Their lives are angry, frustrated, sick, confused, and or any one of them, as well as too full. Hard to let go of their views, they scratch and scream on the walls to maintain their state of mind.

 

This is the logical fallacy of attacking the person instead of the point. This isn't even good form in non-compassionate debates. I'm a martial artist who regularly gets beat up and screamed at, where the whole point is to maintain the calm, concentrated mind. So a silly forum debate doesn't begin to move me after all that. You have jumped to a grotesque unfair conclusion based on the above factual, un bad mouthing post, and owe me an apology.

 

Truthfully speaking, I have not met one Daoist cultivator, left home Daoist that is, ever bad mouth Buddhism.

Putting anyone person or method higher than another only causes more and more problems.

Please follow your own advice in regards to Taoism, and re-read my factual, non-critical, un-angry post.

 

Be well.

Peace and Happiness,

Tao99

Edited October 12, 2008 by Tao99

[林愛偉]

Tao99, I didn't even read your latest post, truthfully.

 

In truth, putting down Daoism, would be putting down my father, and all my "Daoist" teachers, as well as putting down Buddhism, and my Buddhist teachers. You are too much in your head. You should get out of that place.

 

Om Namo Shurangama!

 

I've said enough in the last discourse. I will not expend any more energy on this matter.

All further talk will just be like running around the burning bush forgetting to put out the fire.

The end result... eons of confusion.

 

Enjoy!

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin

 

P.S.- Try reading other posts about this matter that I have written in: you seem to have good affinities with these teachings, or you wouldn't have such afflictions when reading them. Better yet try conversing with some good and wise advisers at some point in the future on the same situation. You may find something frightening to be true.

Edited October 12, 2008 by 林愛偉

[Tao99]

Tao99, I didn't even read your latest post, truthfully.

 

In truth, putting down Daoism, would be putting down my father, and all my "Daoist" teachers, as well as putting down Buddhism, and my Buddhist teachers. You are too much in your head. You should get out of that place.

 

Once again you resort to bad mouthing and lessening others, instead of debating the facts. Your post was full of putting down Taoism, as I showed clearly. You don't even know me but for two posts you clearly misread, yet you insist on negatively psycho-analyzing me. As if that's the point of a debate on facts. So here I guess I must say to you that your angry ego is showing.

 

I've said enough in the last discourse. I will not expend any more energy on this matter.

All further talk will just be like running around the burning bush forgetting to put out the fire.

The end result... eons of confusion.

 

Its just simple facts. I guess here I should say that it is you running around the bush.

 

you wouldn't have such afflictions when reading them. Better yet try conversing with some good and wise advisers at some point in the future on the same situation. You may find something frightening to be true.

 

Once again, you ignorantly psycho-analyze me, instead of compassionate debate of the factual points. So I guess I must here tell you that this is the behavior of an angry ego. You need to look within and wonder why you are so upset by these simple facts you choose to ignore, going on personal attacks instead. You may find something frightening to be true. Please stick to the facts of a debate, and cease with the uninformed personal attacks. So be it, and let it be done. Tao99

Edited October 12, 2008 by Tao99

[Gerard]

Lin,

 

Who was the Buddha in this astral plane before Gautama that you mentioned? I never heard of this before.

 

 

 

Btw, the secret of the universe cannot be expressed with words. Have you heard of the expression: the silence of the Buddha.

 

 

Read Nagarjuna's work please.

 

 

 

Here:

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagarjuna

http://sped2work.tripod.com/nagarjuna_2.html

http://www.stephenbatchelor.org/verses2.htm

 

 

This is the most important philosopher/mystic after the Buddha himself. His Mulamadhyamakakarika (Fundamental Verses on the Middle Way) is a must read by anyone who wants to have a deeper understanding of Buddhism.

 

 

 

Btw, they just banned me from another forum because the moderator is a PhD student of Astrophysics and he couldn't stand that a Buddhist like myself was putting forth the Buddhist view of the Big Bang. Unbelievable. Just banned for no reason. I am tired of arguing with the so-called "materialists" who believe that the scientific method is the only one capable of explaining the origins of the Universe (gee, as if the one we know is the only one).

 

 

 

 

Edited:

 

Tao99 said:

 

Taoists have no interest in being "Buddhas". That is what Buddhists strive for. We Taoists strive for becoming Immortals of the indestructible diamond body, and don't need any knowledge of this "Buddha" you speak of, which in fact is a completely different type of phenomenon (selfless emptiness)

 

Sorry but you are already an immortal. And sorry you can't maintain your conscious-self after physical death because there is no self. Period. Your consciousness is subjected to anicca (impermanence) and therefore it changes every moment even though you don't realise about it. However you may recall memories from previous lives. But answer to this:

 

Where were you or who were you 2 eons ago?

 

Following Taoism is good stuff but its practices won't lead you out of Samsara. They are the best to develop your chi health and nourish the conscious energy.

Edited October 12, 2008 by durkhrod chogori

[Andrei]

Sorry but you are already an immortal

 

Where were you or who were you 2 eons ago?

 

However you may recall memories from previous lives

 

you confused me with these

 

in my understanding to be immortal is to have the memory of your life intact. there must be something that records the memory like the spirit. if you succeed to recall all your past life memory then you became an immortal. at this point I have no memory of any of my past lives. so if I began to cultivate my spirit which allegedly records the memory I will pass through death and I will retain the memory of this life and the next life and the next and so on. there will be no more memory erasure. It is said that we are spiritual beings living a human experience. where is the memory of my life as a spirit?

 

I just read a theory that higher beings from other dimensions (gods) cultivate us like we grow cattle. they send us (the spirits) to experience the human life, we record the memories, we die, they collect our souls, save the memory and erase ours and send us back to collect others memories and so on. this is what we experience as Samsara or the Matrix in what we live.

 

either Buddhist or Taoist we are all in the Matrix

[Gerard]

you confused me with these

 

in my understanding to be immortal is to have the memory of your life intact. there must be something that records the memory like the spirit. if you succeed to recall all your past life memory then you became an immortal. at this point I have no memory of any of my past lives. so if I began to cultivate my spirit which allegedly records the memory I will pass through death and I will retain the memory of this life and the next life and the next and so on. there will be no more memory erasure. It is said that we are spiritual beings living a human experience. where is the memory of my life as a spirit?

 

I just read a theory that higher beings from other dimensions (gods) cultivate us like we grow cattle. they send us (the spirits) to experience the human life, we record the memories, we die, they collect our souls, save the memory and erase ours and send us back to collect others memories and so on. this is what we experience as Samsara or the Matrix in what we live.

 

either Buddhist or Taoist we are all in the Matrix

 

 

I know it is frightening but there is no you and you are already immortal as your karmic energy will continue its course after your physical death. So what are those memories I mentioned before? Nothing but significant karmic imprints that pass on with each of your lives in the continuum process that you are embedded in. However, there are no really many lives but one single life that is stretched out according to karma, and which will only cease once Nirvana is attained.

 

Let me show you how the mind and the karmic continuum work hand-in-hand:

 

Mind is nothing but a complex compound of fleeting mental states. One unit of consciousness consists of three phases:

 

1. Arising or genesis (uppada)

 

2. Static or development (thiti)

 

3. Cessation or dissolution (bhanga).

 

So immediately after the cessation stage of a thought-moment there occurs the genesis stage of the subsequent thought-moment. Each momentary consciousness of this ever-changing life-process, on passing away, transmits its whole energy, all the unremovable recorded impressions to its successor. Every fresh consciousness consists of the potentialities of its predecessors together with something more. There is therefore, a continuous flow of consciousness like a stream without any interruption. The subsequent thought moment is neither absolutely the same as its predecessor -- since that which goes to make it up is not identical -- nor entirely another -- being the same continuity of kamma energy. Here there is no identical being but there is an identity in process.

 

And why does this happen? Answer: because all phenomena in samsara is subjected to the law of impermanence (anicca).

 

So if there is no soul, what is it that is reborn, one might ask.

 

Well, there is nothing to be reborn.

 

When life ceases the karmic energy re-materialises itself in another form. It could be either a worm, an animal, a deva, an angel or a ghost. It all depends on the karmic. When one karmic existence ceases it merely passes on, and where suitable circumstances offer, reveals itself afresh in another name or form. All of course depending of karmic merits accumulated during that particular point of the continuum. Let me recall here the four stages of enlightenment which show how sentient beings evolve according to their karma:

 

"1. An ordinary person (puthujjana) is trapped in the endless changes of saṃsara. Doing good or evil as influenced by his desires and aversions, an ordinary person is born in higher or lower states of being (heavens or hells) according to their actions. As these persons have little control over their minds and behaviors, their destinies are haphazard and subject to great suffering. The ordinary person has never seen and experienced the ultimate truth of Dhamma, and therefore has no way of finding an end to his predicament.

 

2. The Noble persons (sekhas). One who begins sincere training on the Buddhist path and experiences the truth to the extent of cutting of a number of the ten mental fetters (saṃyojana), becomes an ariya puggala; that is, a "noble person" who will surely become an Arahant in the near future (within seven lives). Their specific path is governed by the degree of attainment reached.

 

Within the noble persons there are four paths:

 

1. Stream-enterer (Sotappana).

 

One who enters the stream with the stream being the Noble Eightfold Path regarded as the highest Dharma. The stream-enterer is also said to have "opened the eye of the Dharma" (dharmacakṣus). A stream-enterer is guaranteed enlightenment after no more than 7 successive rebirths, and possibly in fewer. The stream-enterer can also be sure that he won't be reborn in any of the unhappy states or rebirths (animal, a preta, ghost, hell). He can only be reborn as a human being, or in a heaven.

 

The stream-enterer has attained an intuitive grasp of Buddhist doctrine (right view), has complete confidence (saddha) in the Three Jewels of Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha, and has good moral behaviour (sila).

 

 

2. Once-returner (Sakadagami).

 

One who once comes. The once-returner will return to the human world only one more time, and will attain Nirvana in that life.

 

 

3. Non-returner (Anagami).

 

One who does not come. The non-returner does not come back into human existence, or any lower world, after death. Instead, he is reborn in one of the worlds of "Pure Abodes", where they will attain Nirvaṇa. Some of them are reborn a second time in a higher world of the Pure Abodes, but in no case are born into a lower state.

 

A non-returner has abandoned the five lower fetters that bind the mind to the cycle of rebirth. This sentient being is thus partially enlightened, and on the way to perfect and complete Enlightenment.

 

 

4. Holy one (Arahant).

 

 

The fourth stage is that of Arahant, a fully enlightened human being who has abandoned all fetters, and who upon decease (Parinirvana) will not be reborn in any world, having wholly abandoned Samsara.

 

 

 

This description is taken from the Theravada tradition but I wholeheartedly believe it is core Buddhist teaching regardless of tradition.

 

 

Getting back to our original question,

 

Birth is the arising of the psycho-physical phenomena. Death is merely the temporary end of a temporary phenomenon. Just as the arising of a physical state is conditioned by a preceding state as its cause, so the appearance of psycho-physical phenomena is conditioned by cause anterior to its birth (your parents experiencing lust and having sexual intercourse). As the process of one life-span is possible without a permanent entity passing from one thought-moment to another, so a series of life-processes is possible without an immortal soul to transmigrate from one existence to another.

 

As you can see, Buddhism doesn't totally deny the existence of a personality. It only tries to show that it does not exist in an ultimate sense. The Buddhist term for an individual is santana, a flux or a continuity. It includes the mental and physical elements as well. The karmic force of each individual binds the elements together. This uninterrupted flux or continuity of psycho-physical phenomenon -which is conditioned by karma, and not limited only to the present life, but having its source in the beginningless past and its continuation in the future- is the Buddhist substitute for the permanent ego or the immortal soul of other religions.

 

......................................................................................

 

The more one meditates following the Vipassana system of meditation the clearer the mind becomes, you will progress through Jhana as a result, and then you'll realise that what the teachings of the Buddha are so profound and so true.

 

 

Regarding the jhana stages:

 

1. Rupa jhanas (fine material jhana)

 

 

There are 4 stages of deep concentration in this first stage:

 

1.1 First jhana. To attain this jhana, the meditator must fix his mind on the meditation object to reduce and eliminate the lower mental qualities which is called the Five Hindrances (sensual desire, ill will, sloth and torpor, restlessness and worry and doubt) and promote the growth of five jhana factors (applied/directed thought, sustained thought, rapture, bliss and one-pointedness). In this stage, only the subtlest mental movement remains. The ability to form unwholesome intentions ceases.

 

1.2 Second jhana. To attain this jhāna, the meditator must reduce and eliminate the two initial factors of the first jhana itself (applied/directed thought and sustained thought), the three remaining jhana factors still possessed by the meditator are the rapture, bliss and one-pointedness. In this stage, all mental movement utterly ceases. The ability to form wholesome intentions ceases as well. Acquires complete confidence.

 

1.3 Third jhana. To attain this jhana, the meditator must reduce and eliminate the third initial factor of the first jhana itself (rapture), the two remaining jhana factors still possessed by the meditator are the bliss and one-pointedness. Three additional components are possessed by the meditator (equanimity, mindfulness and discernment).

 

1.4 Fourth jhana. To attain this jhana, the meditator must reduce and eliminate the fourth initial factor of the first jhana itself (bliss) and replace it with another jhana factor (equanimity/neutral feeling), the two remaining jhana factors still possessed by the meditator are the neutral feeling and one-pointedness. In this stage, the meditator enters a state of supreme purity, equanimity, and pure consciousness.

 

 

2. Arupa jhanas (formless jhana):

 

2.1 Dimension of the infinitude of space.

2.2 Dimension of the infinitude of consciousness.

2.3 Dimension of nothingness.

2.4 Dimension of neither perception nor non-perception.

 

(http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/gunaratana/wheel351.html)

 

 

 

Please ask if you are still confused. I will try to help as much as I can.

 

 

[Zhan Zhuang]

Not compassionate? Wow, here he is trying to save the ones he can and you call that a lack of compassion. He isn't the one who judges who can and cannot be saved, it is those who read his writings that judge for themselves. If one doesn't see anything redeeming in Li Jiong's posts then they have decided for themselves that they are not worth saving for Li Jiong. He simply doesn't want to waste time and energy attempting to convert non-believers, so to speak (unlike Jehovah's Witnesses).

 

Compassion requires understanding of another's situation. Situation in this sense includes cultural background, karmic conditioning and emotional state. I ask that you understand Li Jiong's situation, and investigate why you are responding with to something you perceive as intolerable.

 

Yours humbly,

James

 

Sorry James, but if you read through all of Li Jiong's posts, they all form a familiar pattern.

His 'secret system' , asking for money, and then those who question his methods are told that they are unable to be saved etc etc.

There are many fraudsters making ridiculous claims, and there are a few who use these forums.

It's about time that they are exposed for what they are.

I'm sorry if this offends anyone but we need to know that if we are spending time and money, we need to know what we are getting for it.

[.broken.]

Sorry James, but if you read through all of Li Jiong's posts, they all form a familiar pattern.

His 'secret system' , asking for money, and then those who question his methods are told that they are unable to be saved etc etc.

There are many fraudsters making ridiculous claims, and there are a few who use these forums.

It's about time that they are exposed for what they are.

I'm sorry if this offends anyone but we need to know that if we are spending time and money, we need to know what we are getting for it.

 

No need to apologise mate. Your reaction was entirely understandable.

 

To use your words, exposing someone "for what they are" merely adds fuel to a perceived fire - for we cannot know for sure if this man, or any others, are indeed what one thinks they are. Assumptions get us nowhere. That aside, most people on this forum have their wits about them and are capable of making decisions for themselves, so what purpose would telling others have? They'll simply nod, if they agree, or shake their head if otherwise.

 

I have spent enough time on this matter, and I am not one for repetition. I believe I summarised it best in the following post: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?act=ST...ost&p=81934

 

Yours humbly,

James

[林愛偉]

name='durkhrod chogori' date='Oct 11 2008, 07:44 PM' post='82981']

 

Lin,

 

Who was the Buddha in this astral plane before Gautama that you mentioned? I never heard of this before.

Btw, the secret of the universe cannot be expressed with words.

 

Kassyapa Buddha.

 

 

Have you heard of the expression: the silence of the Buddha.

 

Edited October 12, 2008 by 林愛偉

[Walker]

Following Taoism is good stuff but its practices won't lead you out of Samsara. They are the best to develop your chi health and nourish the conscious energy.

 

Can you please explain why Daoism ultimately fails to lead one out of samsara?

 

And may I ask, is that statement rooted in your own realization or in theory?