Accupuncture question for you experts...

[Oolong Rabbit]

Is it common to re-experience an old trauma after an accupuncture treatment? Bassically I fell on my left shoulder while doing construction 10 years ago. Last year while practicing taichi, my instructor noted that one shoulder was higher than the other and that my movements on the left side were very limited. Anyhow, to make a long story short I have been very slowly working this out with taichi. Tonight I had accupuncture with electrodes and cupping. It actually felt good at the time, but an hour later while reading to my son, I began to experience excrutiating pain where the injury initially occured. I had to stand up and take a few deep breaths.

Is this normal? Could it be a blockage clearing up?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Gerard]

Yes it is, chi brings up everything, in a deep cleansing fashion. Mental, physical (as a expression of mind, yin yang and karma), and at the karma-samsara level.

 

Eventually, that blockage will clear up. Others resemble rocks in the river, which flows around them adapting to their shape. They generally belong to the mental realm.

 

 

Good luck!

 

 

Namo Amitabha.

Edited September 25, 2008 by durkhrod chogori

[Oolong Rabbit]

Yes it is, chi brings up everything, in a deep cleansing fashion. Mental, physical (as a expression of mind, yin yang and karma), and at the karma-samsara level.

 

Eventually, that blockage will clear up. Others resemble rocks in the river, which flows around them adapting to their shape. They generally belong to the mental realm.

Good luck!

Namo Amitabha.

 

Thank you for the explanation brother!

 

Namo Amitabha

[sunshine]

Hi Oolong R,

 

in some cases it is like with homeopathy. there is a special term for it. In German "Erstverschlimmerung", meaning: initial worsening

before it clears.

 

Some do experience a kind of peeling effect like with an onion over a longer course of treatment.

Troubles tend to reappear the timeline they appeared, starting with the least first, then the one before...

probably the backwards movement of the original symptom-relocation over time...

 

nevertheless: there is always the possibility of retraumatization with these kinds of treatments as well.

 

So if it does not clear up quickly time to see a doc...

 

sincerely

 

Harry

[三江源]

Oolong, once I had an acu session with a huge long cupping treatment, moxa and needles.

 

Mama mia.

 

Not only did I have the worst flu of my life after it, but I also got swamped with panicky separation anxiety from a partner I had broken up with a couple of years previously. I was wandering the streets in an attempt to escape the overwhelming black darkness of my feelings. I thought I would die of the separation.

 

I hadnt realised at all that I had that level of feeling locked into my body. the treatment released it. Thankfully! because if I hadnt had that treatment, it would still be inside me.

 

 

Good luck with the shoulder.

xx

[Gerard]

Thank you for the explanation brother!

 

Namo Amitabha

 

 

Hi Oolong Rabbit,

 

I forgot one thing. You should do fasting to accelerate the healing process. That will release heaps of Yang toxins stuck deep in your system.

 

Do you practice any of the Neijia arts?

 

 

Namo Amitabha.

 

[joeblast]

Gerry, its like cleaning your room when you were a kid...most often you had to make a bigger mess in order to get the original one cleaned up!

[Oolong Rabbit]

Hi Oolong R,

 

in some cases it is like with homeopathy. there is a special term for it. In German "Erstverschlimmerung", meaning: initial worsening

before it clears.

 

Some do experience a kind of peeling effect like with an onion over a longer course of treatment.

Troubles tend to reappear the timeline they appeared, starting with the least first, then the one before...

probably the backwards movement of the original symptom-relocation over time...

 

nevertheless: there is always the possibility of retraumatization with these kinds of treatments as well.

 

So if it does not clear up quickly time to see a doc...

 

sincerely

 

Harry

 

Hi Harry,

 

Ahhh Erstverschlimmerung, just as I suspected! . It happened again last night when I laid down on my back. The odd thing is that I fell on my back, but the pain seem to be coming in the front near my left pectoral. Like a stabbing sensation. There was only one needle in that area and no electric stimulation. I slept on my side and seemed to be okay. I had accupuncture once before, but wasn't overly impressed. This guy was much better. He inserted one of the needles pretty deep and I could tell he hit the problem spot. Anyhow, I am scheduled to go back on Saturday for another treatment. He said I should get 2 treatments a week as it is not good to go too long between treatments at the start. I will let you know how I make out, and I appreciate the advice!

 

 

 

 

Oolong, once I had an acu session with a huge long cupping treatment, moxa and needles.

 

Mama mia.

 

Not only did I have the worst flu of my life after it, but I also got swamped with panicky separation anxiety from a partner I had broken up with a couple of years previously. I was wandering the streets in an attempt to escape the overwhelming black darkness of my feelings. I thought I would die of the separation.

 

I hadnt realised at all that I had that level of feeling locked into my body. the treatment released it. Thankfully! because if I hadnt had that treatment, it would still be inside me.

Good luck with the shoulder.

xx

 

Thanks cat :-). In one of Erle Montague's video on standing meditation, he says people can break down into tears etc... Basically we carry around these physical and emotional traumas in our body. Do you think the Moxa was effective? I have never experienced it.

 

Hi Oolong Rabbit,

 

I forgot one thing. You should do fasting to accelerate the healing process. That will release heaps of Yang toxins stuck deep in your system.

 

Do you practice any of the Neijia arts?

Namo Amitabha.

 

 

Check your inbox brother!

 

Namo Amitabha.

[mat black]

Hi Gerry. Your question reminded me of one of my experinces.

From skateboarding all through my teens, i fell and wacked my cocyx too many times than i can remember.

After a few qigong treatments from Master Xinaglintao, one day i felt this hot, burning sensation in my perenium & my nuts were also on fire. I couldn't sit without pain & it went on for about a week.

So the following week after the treatment when i went back to his place for a class/lesson, i told him about the pain.

He said (i'm paraphrasing now) that he had previously dredged out some bad qi from that lower lumbar & cocyx, geting more out with each treament. The intenses burning that i felt was some of the 'bad' or 'hot' qi which had been inside the cocyx for a long time. So the pain was from the bad qi dumping & released and the nerves re-activating in that area.

 

Then he just gave a qi massage to the area, brushed the bad qi away and said "sit down now and see how it feels". It was instantly better - no pain at all. Then he showed me some daoyin to do specifically for that area to maintain qi flow etc.

 

So im guessing that (based on my experience) if there is stored trauma in your shoulder area, that a treatment may have awakened it and caused the re-experiencing of the pain. If that's the case, follow up treatments might be needed to complete the clearing process.

 

Master Tao said that it is common for some sicknesses or injuries to feel worse as the treament process commences as (if it is effective), it can release the 'bad qi' from the site.

[rain]

nevertheless: there is always the possibility of retraumatization with these kinds of treatments as well.

 

So if it does not clear up quickly time to see a doc...

 

sincerely

 

Harry

 

This is very interesting and important, why is it so? I have been wanting to understand those mechanisms better, do you know how/where one could possibly learn more? it is perhaps a question of experience? or do you know of any written source?

Edited September 26, 2008 by rain

[Aetherous]

So im guessing that (based on my experience) if there is stored trauma in your shoulder area, that a treatment may have awakened it and caused the re-experiencing of the pain. If that's the case, follow up treatments might be needed to complete the clearing process.

 

Agreed.

[Eric23]

This is very interesting and important, why is it so? I have been wanting to understand those mechanisms better, do you know how/where one could possibly learn more? it is perhaps a question of experience? or do you know of any written source?

 

Giles Marin's Chi Nei Tsang book has several excellent chapters on the processes of healing.

[sunshine]

I will let you know how I make out,[/b] and I appreciate the advice!

 

Please do so... and read more below of what I think of deep puncturing in certain areas, if you like...

 

This is very interesting and important, why is it so? I have been wanting to understand those mechanisms better, do you know how/where one could possibly learn more? it is perhaps a question of experience? or do you know of any written source?

 

Hi "rain",

 

there sure are materials out there that have several kind of explanations. I personally would speak of experience and might be able to use an analogy:

first of. Anything the body/mind can't handle for whatever reasons can lead to trauma, if the body/mind does not instantly the modus of disassociation, which might turn to be a problem in its own right.

 

Now. Lets say there is a tumor of any kind in the body (like with a friend of mine in her abdominal wall after an operation). The doctor recently had to look inside the abdominal cavity because of the possibility of endometriosis. Looking inside he found the "tumor" to be encapsulated by a lot of scar tissue.

Now: what might happen if one were to open the scar tissue?

 

It could be part of a healing process to hep the body get rid of the tumor, but it might as well lead to inflammation, in a worst case scenario maybe even spreadening of cancerous-cells if the tumor turns out to be maligne.

 

In Japanese Acupuncture there is a needle technique of finely placing a thin needle close to the surface of a nodule and then moving the needle in a rotation movement to dissolve it. But this is not done forceful. A thick needle rammed right in there might to the contrary damage the tissue itself, thereby maybe worsening what has been not quite that okay before.

 

By the way: Dr. Tan, a famous acupuncturist from San Diego never inserts the needle into the problem area, but always balancingwise away from it.

 

with smiles

 

Harry

[Spiritual_Aspirant]

In Pranic Healing, we have a term "radical reaction". It happens when you energize the affected part without cleaning it first. So before you get better, you get worse temporarily. Usually it does pass, but it would've been much less painful if your healer removed the unhealthy energy before energizing the affected part.

[Oolong Rabbit]

Thanks again everyone for their input. I just received my second treatment today. There has been no pain reverberating out of my chest from this session. But after about 25 minutes or so on the electrical apparatus, I began to feel pain and heat rising up in the problem area directly surrounding the needle. Basically it felt like the current or perhaps muscle contractions had loosened something up and brought it closer to the surface (similar to Matt's experience). It's probably too early to say, but it feels pretty good. I am going to stick with the accupuncture, but I still think it's going to take some focused taichi work to get the muscles and tendons loosened up on that side of my body.

 

Matt,

 

Did master Tao use accupuncture or energetics alone?

 

Sunshine,

 

He said he is using a longer needle and inserting it under my shouldblade (scapula). He said this a fairly common problem spot in his patients.

 

Brgds!

[rain]

Please do so... and read more below of what I think of deep puncturing in certain areas, if you like...

Hi "rain",

 

there sure are materials out there that have several kind of explanations. I personally would speak of experience and might be able to use an analogy:

first of. Anything the body/mind can't handle for whatever reasons can lead to trauma, if the body/mind does not instantly the modus of disassociation, which might turn to be a problem in its own right.

 

Now. Lets say there is a tumor of any kind in the body (like with a friend of mine in her abdominal wall after an operation). The doctor recently had to look inside the abdominal cavity because of the possibility of endometriosis. Looking inside he found the "tumor" to be encapsulated by a lot of scar tissue.

Now: what might happen if one were to open the scar tissue?

 

It could be part of a healing process to hep the body get rid of the tumor, but it might as well lead to inflammation, in a worst case scenario maybe even spreadening of cancerous-cells if the tumor turns out to be maligne.

 

In Japanese Acupuncture there is a needle technique of finely placing a thin needle close to the surface of a nodule and then moving the needle in a rotation movement to dissolve it. But this is not done forceful. A thick needle rammed right in there might to the contrary damage the tissue itself, thereby maybe worsening what has been not quite that okay before.

 

By the way: Dr. Tan, a famous acupuncturist from San Diego never inserts the needle into the problem area, but always balancingwise away from it.

 

with smiles

 

Harry

 

Thanks for taking the time to respond. Your answer somehow matched the one below. Still, what exactly is it to insert a needle balancingaway from the insert point? There was an article in todays newspaper about stem cells. They seemed to be very optimistic about cultivating and then inserting healthy cells into damaged tissue and tumours. They've already good results with treating blindness caused by damages tissue in not in retina but....ohh some other part of the eye. ok. shut down. it's getting late.

[sunshine]

Hi Oolong R

 

it is good when he know what he does

 

 

Rain:

 

T Still, what exactly is it to insert a needle balancingaway from the insert point?

 

Well. Say you have a knee pain. Needling into the area of that knee (as often done):

can you tell immediately if the pain subsides?

can you be sure you do not put extra strain or damage to the already damaged kneed?

 

Now: a balancing strategy that works could be needling the contralateral elbow. The body

seems to hold certain ways that it has its parts in balance to each other.

 

Now: the basic idea is that when there is too much on one side there is too little at the other...

and vice versa.

 

So by balancing the ways according to the principles of the body one would establish euqilibrium again.

Fine, isn't it?

 

Further: when needling the elbow for contralteral knee pain I immediately can know if there is a change

to the pain in the knee.

 

Beautiful, isn't it?

 

It sure is not the only valid strategy but one that I feel safe to use... and it is effective indeed.

 

 

Harry

 

 

Hi Oolong R

 

it is good when he know what he does

 

 

Rain:

 

T Still, what exactly is it to insert a needle balancingaway from the insert point?

 

Well. Say you have a knee pain. Needling into the area of that knee (as often done):

can you tell immediately if the pain subsides?

can you be sure you do not put extra strain or damage to the already damaged kneed?

 

Now: a balancing strategy that works could be needling the contralateral elbow. The body

seems to hold certain ways that it has its parts in balance to each other.

 

Now: the basic idea is that when there is too much on one side there is too little at the other...

and vice versa.

 

So by balancing the ways according to the principles of the body one would establish euqilibrium again.

Fine, isn't it?

 

Further: when needling the elbow for contralteral knee pain I immediately can know if there is a change

to the pain in the knee.

 

Beautiful, isn't it?

 

It sure is not the only valid strategy but one that I feel safe to use... and it is effective indeed.

 

 

Harry