Questions about Egyptian Mysticism

[Yoda]

Apepch7,

 

I second Scotty's sentiments!! Thoth has smiled upon us bums by sending you here as far as I'm concerned. I promise to study your OCD tome carefully!!

 

What books would you recommend for learning about the spiritual side of the equation?

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[Apech]

I have posted an article in the articles section on my understanding of the ka.

 

Yoda,

 

I don't know of any book which do justice to the spiritual interpretation of Egyptian Mysticism - but I haven't read everything

[Yoda]

Apepch7,

 

Well get writing then!!

 

I read Egyptian Yoga which wasn't impressive. The Shamanic Pyramid Texts was decent. Search for Omm Sety was good. Anna, Grandmother of Jesus was a blast but only indirectly on Egypt. I've got another on order, Initiation. Supposed to be like Omm Sety, based on past life memory. I enjoyed that Thoth emerald tablet book floating around the net, too. I liked the Egyptian/Greek magical papyrii.

 

So, essentially channeled stuff for the most part. Haven't seen anything that really includes a scholastic angle like you have or approaches the subject in a linear, rigorous fashion.

 

I think there's a real market for your knowledge. You should consider it.

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[Yoda]

Apepch7,

 

So I read about the Discourse of a Man with his Ba or the man who was tired of life:

 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/5997476/Ancient-...Wisdom-Readings

 

Interesting stuff. The vibe I had in mind for a guardian angle was from the Greco/Egyptian magical papyrii about summoning a spirit, feeding it, creating a partnership and he/she will do your bidding as long as you don't use him to score you some pork.

 

This Ba thing was very interesting... there seemed to be a fair amount of antagonism between the two but in the end some sort of union.

 

If you could comment on the role of these two types of "angels," that'd be awesome!

 

There seemed to be an allusion to the disbelief in reincarnation where the wife wouldn't be allowed to be reborn.

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[Apech]

Apepch7,

 

So I read about the Discourse of a Man with his Ba or the man who was tired of life:

 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/5997476/Ancient-...Wisdom-Readings

 

Interesting stuff. The vibe I had in mind for a guardian angle was from the Greco/Egyptian magical papyrii about summoning a spirit, feeding it, creating a partnership and he/she will do your bidding as long as you don't use him to score you some pork.

 

This Ba thing was very interesting... there seemed to be a fair amount of antagonism between the two but in the end some sort of union.

 

If you could comment on the role of these two types of "angels," that'd be awesome!

 

There seemed to be an allusion to the disbelief in reincarnation where the wife wouldn't be allowed to be reborn.

 

Your pal,

Yoda

 

 

Hi Yoda,

 

I will try to find time to write up the ba. But quickly, it is symbolised by a bird with a human head. This is because, unlike the ka which stays in the tomb/underworld the ba is free to move. It leaves the tomb to see the rising sun, one of the key events in the after-life. The word ba is also used of gods, the sun is the 'great eastern ba', and ba also means Ram, so it is linked to sexual potency. The ba as well as being able to move can undergo transformation into different forms.

 

So the ba is about spontaneous, creative power and is in short the divine part of a person. It is your god-like aspect. The 'danger' with the ba is that it goes off and doesn't return. For this reason the ba is summoned back to unite with the mummy in the tomb. The text you linked to makes an analogy between the ba and the eye of Ra which goes to the scorching desert and has to be fetched back. This is because your creative imagination, as a divine power is subject to flights of fancy, prefers the open sky to the daily grind.

 

The man in the text is fed up with the misery of life and wants to die because the 'West' - i.e. the land of death, is appealingly peaceful and 'cool'. But when the ba speaks it tells him to put aside all this worry, have a good time and then when it is time for him to die they will be united.

 

When I say the ba is your creative power or imagination, I don't mean this in just psychological terms, but that this is an actual entity to which, like the man in the story you can make an appeal. You can through mediation and other techniques access the ba and travel with it.

 

There is a lot more and I will try to write it up.

 

Cheers.

 

Apepch7

[Yoda]

Apepch7,

 

I wonder if finding one's Ba might be sort of the same lines as the soul retrieval type of practice? Is it possible to find your ba a little at a time or does it always stay in one piece?

 

 

I've never had a particular connection to the Egyptian tradition other than a possible past life memory that I was a member of a priesthood on the receiving end of an "Egyptian inquisition." Then I started sungazing and my dreams were swarming with pleasant and unpleasant but always exciting experiences of Egyptian gods and priests and so forth. It got too intense, so I quit the practice more or less. I'll watch a sunset only every so often now.

 

It's only recently that I've learned that the Egyptian tradition is hugely foundational for many esoteric traditions, hence my current effort to get at least a modest degree of understanding.

 

But why did the sun inspire Egyptian experiences??? I can believe that the sun carries Ba energy.

 

Yoda

[Apech]

But why did the sun inspire Egyptian experiences???

 

There was no difference to the Egyptians between their spiritual view and their natural view. So the visible sun was the ba of Ra, or sometimes the sun disk is the body/form of Ra.

 

In nature, in the Egyptian agricultural system their were two essential things for life. The Nile inundation waters (which carried rich alluvial mud from the African mountains) and the sun. In the same way in their mystical system their are two key experiences, the West where the sun sinks back into the waters revealing the void nature of things and the sun rise in the East which is a vision of unity in the appearance of the creative power.

 

The Book of the Dead devotes a number of chapters to explaining this experience, especially Chapter 17 which has a 'glossary' text where the statements are interpreted and explained. However the explanations on first read are as obscure as the original statements. One of the things I am working on is a modern glossary to this text.

[Aetherous]

What is the point of the sphinx?

Do you have anything to say about the SAH breath in the pyramid texts?

Are there any existing mystery schools, which are actually legit (not something formulated or channeled, but handed down)?

[Yoda]

Scotty,

 

Dude, we need to count to 5 before asking new questions!!

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[Aetherous]

But my ka is excited! And my ka doesn't know how to count to 2 much less 5.

[Yoda]

reading Apepch7's writing is likely good for the Ka. Ka food??

 

 

Scotty, did you hear that there's like a spaceship below the Sphinx? Way!!

[Andrei]

Apepch7,

 

excellent stuff, thank you for the articles. I just asked some questions in the Articles section

[Apech]

What is the point of the sphinx?

Do you have anything to say about the SAH breath in the pyramid texts?

Are there any existing mystery schools, which are actually legit (not something formulated or channeled, but handed down)?

 

 

The sphinx is a symbol of completeness and the god Atum. Specifically the lion body and human head are to do with the body-oriented power centres and the perception based head centres linked into a unified being.

 

SAH breath - could you be more specific?

 

Existing mystery schools - not that I know of - but definite links to western alchemy and hermeticism.

[Stigweard]

The sphinx is a symbol of completeness and the god Atum. Specifically the lion body and human head are to do with the body-oriented power centres and the perception based head centres linked into a unified being.

 

SAH breath - could you be more specific?

 

Existing mystery schools - not that I know of - but definite links to western alchemy and hermeticism.

 

 

Hiya apepch7 our beloved forum Egyptologist

 

Can you comment on this statement please?

 

"The ancient Mesopotamians called the powder 'shem-an-na' (highward fire-stone) and the Egyptians described it as 'mfkzt', while the Alexandrians venerated it as the Paradise Stone.

 

Made into conical cakes, or suspended in water, the enigmatic fire-stone powder was a ritually ingested supplement of the ancient kings and pharaohs. It was revered as the food of the 'light body' (the ka) and was reckoned to heighten general aptitudes of leadership, such as awareness, perception and intuition. It was further considered to be a key to active longevity."

 

Conical presentation at the Sinai temple of Hathor

[Apech]

Hiya apepch7 our beloved forum Egyptologist

 

Can you comment on this statement please?

 

"The ancient Mesopotamians called the powder 'shem-an-na' (highward fire-stone) and the Egyptians described it as 'mfkzt', while the Alexandrians venerated it as the Paradise Stone.

 

Made into conical cakes, or suspended in water, the enigmatic fire-stone powder was a ritually ingested supplement of the ancient kings and pharaohs. It was revered as the food of the 'light body' (the ka) and was reckoned to heighten general aptitudes of leadership, such as awareness, perception and intuition. It was further considered to be a key to active longevity."

 

 

 

Hmmm perhaps you could give me your source for this. I don't know of 'mfkzt' but 'mfk3t' is turquoise. The pointy thing in the picture is a stylised bread mould (I know it does look like bread). It shows the king presenting it to Amen Ra , behind whom is a goddess probably Hathor given the context. What this is is really a typical picture writing - the Egyptians would use glyphs in pictures to reinforce the writing - so an outstretched arm with the pointy loaf thing can be read as "to give" or "gives". The text (the bit I can see properly) just says something like the king gives life and good things to Amen.

 

What is this 'heightened fire-stone' supposed to be?

[Stigweard]

Hmmm perhaps you could give me your source for this. I don't know of 'mfkzt' but 'mfk3t' is turquoise. The pointy thing in the picture is a stylised bread mould (I know it does look like bread). It shows the king presenting it to Amen Ra , behind whom is a goddess probably Hathor given the context. What this is is really a typical picture writing - the Egyptians would use glyphs in pictures to reinforce the writing - so an outstretched arm with the pointy loaf thing can be read as "to give" or "gives". The text (the bit I can see properly) just says something like the king gives life and good things to Amen.

 

What is this 'heightened fire-stone' supposed to be?

 

Here is a snippet of what it is about: whitepowdergold. I first heard about it through Lawrence Gardner's works.

[Aetherous]

About the "sah" breath: http://www.pyramidtexts.com/

[Apech]

About the "sah" breath: http://www.pyramidtexts.com/

 

 

Thanks for the link Scotty:

 

 

 

IMPLOSION UTTERANCE 1

1a. djed medu in nut akhet uret za pu semesu teti up chet

Breathed is the Word sah bound-for the Blue-Void (mother), Nirvanic and Gigantic, so that such a son will be an elder, Teti, who opens the body,

1b. merii pu hetep en her ef

so that such a beloved one will be one in-charge-of whom, (the Blue-Void mother) has been pleased.

 

This is the translation on the website you linked to. I am not here to dictate to people what they take from Egypt or not but beware heavily interpretative translations.

 

The website gives 'djed medu' as 'Breathed is the Word sah' - while actually djed means 'spoken' and medu means 'word'. So all this is saying is that the following text is meant to be spoken out loud.

 

The website gives 'in nut akhet uret' as 'bound-for the Blue-Void (mother).' What I would give is 'by Nut the great effective one'. I don't have too much problem with Blue-Void (mother) - as the Goddess Nut represents the expanse of voidity - but as the Egyptians just wrote 'Nut' why not leave the name as it is?

 

You will notice that there is no mention of 'sah' at all in the original so I have no idea why the website translator has introduced this - but I assume that they have a theory about the meaning of 'sah' which they think should go in here. BUT I would argue that if the Egyptians didn't find this appropriate why should we?

 

Translation of any language, let alone an ancient one is fraught with difficulty but I favour the dry academic versions which at least leave the reader with more scope about making up their own mind as to what it means.

 

These are two more standard translations of the same text:

 

 

Recitation by Nut; the greatly beneficent: The King (Teti) is my eldest son who split open my womb; he is my beloved, with whom I am well pleased.

 

(Faulkner)

 

Recitation by Nut, the elder effective one. Teti is my son, whom I caused to be born and who parted my belly; he is the one I have desired and with whom I have become content.

 

(Allen)

 

 

The text comes from the sarcophagus of king Teti (6th Dynasty). The sarcophagus was a model of a cosmos and its lid represented the sky. Nut is the sky goddess and the king is 'reborn' within her womb.

 

Obviously there's a lot more to be said about this!

[Aetherous]

Sweet, thanks. That's pretty crazy that "sah" isn't even mentioned!

 

There is a a "sah breath" practice in kunlun. I tried it the other night and it seemed to work with some of the text. For instance, the tunnel and light 6" in front of the brow, was clearly perceptible.

 

It's good to get another viewpoint on it, since I know nothing of Egyptian language or hieroglyphs.

[Apech]

Sweet, thanks. That's pretty crazy that "sah" isn't even mentioned!

 

There is a a "sah breath" practice in kunlun. I tried it the other night and it seemed to work with some of the text. For instance, the tunnel and light 6" in front of the brow, was clearly perceptible.

 

It's good to get another viewpoint on it, since I know nothing of Egyptian language or hieroglyphs.

 

 

One of our fellow TBs has sent me the Sah breath Kunlun practice and I will try it.

 

All that I write is just what I have got from either Egyptology, the texts or my own understanding - I don't disregard anything as I know that lots of people are inspired by Egypt as its part of our heritage and basically I am 100% in favour of people finding out for them selves and finding their own way which has validity for them.

[Yoda]

Apepch7,

 

No sah??

 

I'm a big fan of spiritually inspired and/or highly poeticized translations, but I think it's a good thing to let the reader know how far off track from the normal interpretation it is as a courtesy.

 

Per the book, it seemed that Omm Sety had a pretty scaled down ritual: beer and incense for handmade statues of Isis and Osiris... almost like doing a beer run for the gods. And whenever anyone would invade her space as a single, female, foreigner in the middle of nowhere might sometimes expect, she'd pray to Osiris to make the needed adjustments which would often happen. She seemed to say that there was a certain pecking order and that nobody messed with or complained about it. There were some things she didn't like, but she accepted it as the way things are with the system.

 

The Egyptian texts, from what I glean, seem to have that sort of simple, straightforward functionality to them... sort of like an instruction manual.

 

Does that sound about right?

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[rain]

excuse me for interrupting, is this an accurate site?

 

http://www.touregypt.net/NUT.HTM

 

btw have you read Velikovsky's Oedipus and Ankhnaton?

Edited October 1, 2008 by rain

[Apech]

excuse me for interrupting, is this an accurate site?

 

http://www.touregypt.net/NUT.HTM

 

btw have you read Velikovsky's Oedipus and Ankhnaton?

 

 

Hi Rain,

 

I don't think you were interrupting ! yes touregypt is a fairly straight down the middle Egyptology site.

 

I read Velikovsky years ago.

 

 

Apepch7

 

 

 

 

 

The Egyptian texts, from what I glean, seem to have that sort of simple, straightforward functionality to them... sort of like an instruction manual.

 

Does that sound about right?

 

Your pal,

Yoda

 

Yep - straightforward and functional to them - but inscrutable to us (at first)!

[Yoda]

So what's up with those pyramids?

[Cameron]

What about Anubis?

 

While we are at it what's up with Ra? What's you interpretation of the eye of Ra?