Question About Taoism Vs. Buddhism

[Vigilant3]

Years ago I discovered a book on Tao called "365 Tao" written by Deng-Ming Dao. I began to read many of his other works (I think i've covered them all by now), and "365 Tao" became a sort of "Bible" to me in a strictly comparative sense.

 

What I really liked and appreciated about Taoism was that it sought the truth. It didn't simply accept some sort of answer or belief as the only possible one. It didn't preach about how one should commune with God(s) and pray or worship an unseen being. It didn't really "preach" anything at all to be honest. It merely spoke truth about life and volumes about the realities of the hardships of life and how one could go about dealing with them. I was very impressed.

 

I began reading about Buddhism and noticed it was more religiously oriented. It spoke of reincarnation and how a Buddhist believes beyond a shadow of a doubt that they existed in a past life and that they'll be brought back into yet another once they pass from this one. That's all very "religious" to me, and riddled with blind faith, which doesn't appeal to me at all. I really admired the open-mindedness of the Tao.

 

My knowledge of both is limited, and I am posting this thread essentially in the hopes that someone will be able to comment on whether i'm completely confused about both practices or actually have said something here that makes any kind of sense

 

Please enlighten me

Edited September 25, 2008 by Vigilant3

[Unconditioned]

Wow, that was the FIRST introduction to Taoism myself (the exact 365 Tao book you have)!

 

There is a method that works for some that is tied to devotion which I tend to associate with dogmatic practices like Buddhism. For some, it can be easy to get caught in the semantics with those paths. I studied Buddhism for a couple of years and there is some great wisdom to be found there but I had a hard time with the dogma as well. Taoism can be said to have dogma as well depending on where you look. Symbols are used to convey abstract ideas unfortunately they can be misinterpreted.

 

That said, when one realizes the Truth and tries to express it, they use their language and culture to try to communicate such that another may find the same Truth. Over time, the interpretation of Truth gets taken for Truth itself which is in error.

 

So where does that leave us? Find the path that resonates with you and stick with it. At the essence of spiritual practice lies the same Truth. Whether you use Buddhism, Christianity, Taoism, or whatever the important thing is to find one that feels right, that you can understand the essence of.

[adam mizner]

hi

 

Buddhism does not ask you to believe anything. best to read the true teachings of the Buddha and not someones take on it. also, what does religion mean to you?

metta

Adam

 

I began reading about Buddhism and noticed it was more religiously oriented. It spoke of reincarnation and how a Buddhist believes beyond a shadow of a doubt that they existed in a past life and that they'll be brought back into yet another once they pass from this one. That's all very "religious" to me, and riddled with blind faith, which doesn't appeal to me at all. I really admired the open-mindedness of the Tao.

 

My knowledge of both is limited, and I am posting this thread essentially in the hopes that someone will be able to comment on whether i'm completely confused about both practices or actually have said something here that makes any kind of sense

 

 

 

It spoke of reincarnation and how a Buddhist believes beyond a shadow of a doubt that they existed in a past life and that they'll be brought back into yet another once they pass from this one.

 

hi

reincarnation is a hindu concept and not Buddhist. even existence is not preached.

 

metta

Adam

[exorcist_1699]

In fact , there are 2 preachings in Buddhism:

 

1) To the mass : more religious, talking more about reincarnation , tortures in hell , worship of different Buddha...

 

2) To small group of good , "intelligent " guys: talking about mindlessness, the way of getting rid of

our concepts , how to exploit endless layers of emptiness..etc. It sounds not so religious : How can you claim

a thought which admires emptiness, gains intelligence and power from nothingness , as a religion ?

Edited September 26, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[Vigilant3]

I didn't really quite understand what was being said about Buddhism... could someone clarify those last two posts?

 

 

 

So where does that leave us? Find the path that resonates with you and stick with it. At the essence of spiritual practice lies the same Truth. Whether you use Buddhism, Christianity, Taoism, or whatever the important thing is to find one that feels right, that you can understand the essence of.

 

 

I see what you are saying, but where can the dogma be found in Taoism? And glad you found that book, it's great isn't it?

[Unconditioned]

I didn't really quite understand what was being said about Buddhism... could someone clarify those last two posts?

I see what you are saying, but where can the dogma be found in Taoism? And glad you found that book, it's great isn't it?

 

I have to be careful with this one - I don't mean to offend anyone (Taoist or otherwise)! But I believe that some of the Taoist physical practices can be a form of dogma. That doesn't mean dogma is bad, it's a tool/method like any other. But if you explore the boards you'll find a lot of discussion on esoteric abilities and the like which, like anything, we can easily become enveloped in and miss out on where they're trying to lead us.

 

Adam, there are some denominations of Buddhism which are very religious and use worship / devotion as the method to enlightenment (ultimately surrender is the key to those paths and can/do lead to the goal). I did not mean to offend but get the impression that I may have.

 

That said, the first Buddha did say to not take anyone's word for anything. Investigate. This is what drew me into Buddhism and ultimately into Taoism. What pushed me away from Buddhism was I felt constrained by the specific 'steps' (8 fold path). Everyone has their preferences towards their path. Which one we choose is much less important than pursuing the truth. If I use a wooden mallet or metal hammer to drive a nail they both accomplish the same goal.

[Gerard]

Buddhism = polish the mind until you manage to overcome Samsara's gravitational pull.

 

Taoism = follow nature and its energetic system.

 

 

Both complement each other perfectly.

 

 

No religion, just a philosophy of life.

 

 

Practice sitting/lying meditation (or whatever other method you like, even walking is good as long as you are able to detach from the external surroundings and bring about peace to the mind) with direct neigong work (Bagua, Xingyi) and you are set.

 

 

 

Good luck!

[adam mizner]

no offence here. as you say, the first Buddha. when i say Buddhism i am refering to the Pali tradition. as for feeling constrained by the path well yes. that is the idea, to constrain and uproot the defilements of the mind. following ones preference is the true problem on the path. for us who are not free, greed anger and delusion are our preferences. so we need to go against the grain.

metta

Adam

 

Adam, there are some denominations of Buddhism which are very religious and use worship / devotion as the method to enlightenment (ultimately surrender is the key to those paths and can/do lead to the goal). I did not mean to offend but get the impression that I may have.

 

That said, the first Buddha did say to not take anyone's word for anything. Investigate. This is what drew me into Buddhism and ultimately into Taoism. What pushed me away from Buddhism was I felt constrained by the specific 'steps' (8 fold path). Everyone has their preferences towards their path. Which one we choose is much less important than pursuing the truth. If I use a wooden mallet or metal hammer to drive a nail they both accomplish the same goal.

[mat black]

.............. In fact , there are 2 preachings in Buddhism:

 

1) To the mass : more religious, talking more about reincarnation , tortures in hell , worship of different Buddha...

 

2) To small group of good , "intelligent " guys: talking about mindlessness, the way of getting rid of

our concepts , how to exploit endless layers of emptiness..etc. It sounds not so religious : How can you claim

a thought which admires emptiness, gains intelligence and power from nothingness , as a religion ?

 

 

Buddahood is attatched to nothing, so with real understanding, there's no exploitation, no thoughts that admire this or that whether it be form or emptiness.

Just remember that some the teachings of Buddhism arise because of people and their unconciousness. The teachings are made for us - just like medicine is made for a sick person.

People sometimes confuse expedient means (techniques, practices,methods) and become fixated and attatched to them. Expedient means are used to strip away the habitual layers of conditioning that we have become identified with. With the dropping of the conditioning, the expedient is appreciated and understood for the purpose it served.

Everyone is at a differnt stage in terms of there depth of unconcious conditioning compared to their:

actual wisdom or understanding, greed or compassion, anger or patience........so for some peole, expedients of different sorts are needed and to different degrees.

 

These types of things were also disscussed some time ago on this forum in the thread 'non-dualism and the need for practice'.

Edited September 28, 2008 by mat black

[doc benway]

Daoism here in the West is quite a bit different than Daoism in the East. Here we are primarily focused on philosophical aspects of Daoism as seen through the eyes of Western translations of Daoist texts (really only 3 texts for the most part, Laozi, Zhuanzi, and Liezi). More and more there are people practicing Daoist cultivation methods but the majority of these are also modified through Western teachers' eyes. Daoism as a religious practice does not translate well to the Western sensibilities so it is pretty much non-existent outside of China (or the Chinese home and place of business in the West). Way too many gods and goddesses and fortune telling, and all kinds of stuff that is very alien to the sensibilities of those raised in the Abrahamic cultures.

 

Buddhism, on the other hand, travels much better. In fact, many well-informed scholars consider Buddhism to be more or less Hinduism stripped down to the bare essentials and packaged for exportation. So the whole package of the Buddhist religious traditions are easily portable and relatively easily accepted by the West (much more so than religious Daoism at least). If you saw some of the traditional Daoist ceremonies and practices carried out by those who truly practice the religion, it would seem even more foreign, uncomfortable, and "religious" to you than Buddhism, I suspect.

 

The personal cultivation and bare-bones philosophical and metaphysical aspects of any religion can be isolated from the rituals and will appear less "religious". In fact, if you boil down any of the religions to the core spiritual essence and personal admonitions, they are nearly identical. That, at least, is my experience.

[Vajrasattva]

Both Come from Bonpo BON PO comes from ancient Persia.....

Edited September 28, 2008 by Vajrasattva

[daoseeker]

Practice sitting/lying meditation (or whatever other method you like, even walking is good as long as you are able to detach from the external surroundings and bring about peace to the mind) with direct neigong work (Bagua, Xingyi) and you are set.

Good luck!

 

excellent advice!

E.g. Zen-Training combined with Internal Martial Arts Neigong or basic routines (jibengong) - and you are right on the way of most orthodox and traditionally trained Daoist monks. That's exactly what they do in fact!

Maybe we should just take what's available and not looking for ever more romantic and complicated places or practices....

like a western christian hermit once said:

look for God - don't look for a place where you believe God lives...