After Dao what?

[metzu]

This is a question that has been popping up in my mnd lately. I have come to this point with every relegion or philosophy I have jumped into with both feet, all of my adult life since I had my first spiritual awakening 40 years ago, in jail awaiting trial, with 60 charges hanging over my head, in one jurisdiction and 20 charges in another. In forty years I have been reborn so many times to so many different concepts and ideas that I have taken to the end of the line, always leaving me with the same result...........I was always returned to the answers are within my own being. The Dao has opened me up and freed me of all those old boogie men/women,be it jesus,buddha,mary magdalen, narcotics anonymous,drugs,sex,bullshit, and planted me on a direct path with nature itself. Now I have arrived at this moment in my existence, where the Dao is becoming another contrivance and all discussion about it seems, just entertainment............don't get me wrong the adventure internally has been the most exciting of them all, because it has led me back to nature which has led me back to me and the realization that all nature including me and you are the same even though appearences may differ. It has relieved me of the fear of death as well as the fear of life. I feel and think freer and unhibitedly happier , I rejoice in the simple and walk by the complicated without a visible noticing............I no longer need to look for or make trouble to stir up the cauldron of my existence, to dig for new answers to questions outside of my being, they're just none of my business so I don't give them any more attention..... I know nature takes care of all that is and everything happens exactly as it is supposed to without me putting myself in to repair or tear something up or down. I ignore the government, yet keep an eye on them, I ignore the religions, but I keep an eye on them, I know the dangers of having too much or too little, so I let come to me what comes and don't seek more then I need. All in all with Jeanne and our two 11 and 12 year old puppies, family and a few friends I am comfortable but not complacent. My gratitude lists are as long as my 68 years, I have no regrets, nor sorrows, no shame ,don't believe forgiveness has anything to do with anything other than ,judgements...........after what I have survived to get to here who or what could I possibly judge without judging myself.............and since I have judged myself innocent..........then all that encompasses this magnificent universe I judge innocent as well.

So I ask

After Dao what?

 

 

What I neglected to say in that magnanimous account of where i was yesterday morning, is, I suffer with great pain from many physical ailments, diabetes, arthritis , scoliosis, and now a tear of a muscle on my hip , the scoliosis has me shrinking rapidly as I become more and more bent over(3 years ago I stood 5' ll" and 3/4's today I stand 5'8")and at the time of writing the above I was not suffering with great pain.

So I have arrived at this wonderful remarkable place in my life, mentally, emotionally and spiritually, have suffered as all suffer who strive for freedom, truth and the pursuit of happiness ,only to arrive in great pain.

As I have stated at different times since being here on this forum, I have a history of drug addiction. As a matter of fact I have only three months ago been detoxed from a methadone program, that I was on because of my physical pain. I wanted to come off because on drugs, the thoughts and emotions are crippled, by the drug, in other words apathy becomes a way of life, and I didn't want my life to continue without the experiences of knowing and being aware of all the beauty that surrounds me in nature, nor the communication of precious thoughts and feelings with Jeanne, our two puppies, my two brothers that are still alive ( while on the drug, I moved back with my older brother who had been given 2 months to live, to be there and watch him wither away to nothing was devastating more so because I had no emotions, and could only go thru the motions of giving support) and those who have similar interests, to express.

After I didn't make a move for a couple weeks to come back home to Jeanne, I was numb, after Lou passed . Jeanne had to come and get me to bring me home.

That was when I decided to have them detox me from the drug. Naturally at the time while taking the drug I had no pain at all, nor emotional distress, because the drug is that powerful.

I share this now because after that remarkable post I shared yesterday of my experience, and the great pain I have been suffering ,sometimes greater then others, I needed to see and hear the totality of my own situation.

This not a cry for sympathy , let's say it is just me getting honest,with me and you all after all I said since being here. I know my bullshit is as great as many and better than some others.

Joe

Edited September 27, 2008 by metzu

[Gerard]

Cessation of suffering, Nirvana.

 

What else do you want?

 

I would be very happy if I reach that state in this lifetime. More than happy, pure ecstasy.

 

 

Namo Amitabha.

[Stigweard]

After Dao what?

 

Do you practice Taijiquan at all?

 

Earth follows Heaven, Heaven follows Tao, Tao follows its own nature.

 

After Tao ... Tao.

 

Before enlightenment: chop wood carry water ... after enlightenment chop wood carry water.

 

Perhaps you are not asking the right question.

 

To ask "After Tao what?" creates the duality that there is 'before Tao'.

 

TTC ch14

 

Confront it, and you do not see its face.

Follow it, and you do not see its back.

...

If you hope to meet it,

it has no part you can call front.

If you hope to follow it,

it has no place you can call behind.

 

Once you have become Tao the distinctions of 'before and after' are no longer.

Edited September 26, 2008 by Stigweard

[metzu]

Do you practice Taijiquan at all?

 

Earth follows Heaven, Heaven follows Tao, Tao follows its own nature.

 

After Tao ... Tao.

 

Before enlightenment: chop wood carry water ... after enlightenment chop wood carry water.

 

Perhaps you are not asking the right question.

 

To ask "After Tao what?" creates the duality that there is 'before Tao'.

 

TTC ch14

 

Confront it, and you do not see its face.

Follow it, and you do not see its back.

...

If you hope to meet it,

it has no part you can call front.

If you hope to follow it,

it has no place you can call behind.

 

Once you have become Tao the distinctions of 'before and after' are no longer.

[metzu]

Do you practice Taijiquan at all?

 

Earth follows Heaven, Heaven follows Tao, Tao follows its own nature.

 

After Tao ... Tao.

 

Before enlightenment: chop wood carry water ... after enlightenment chop wood carry water.

 

Perhaps you are not asking the right question.

 

To ask "After Tao what?" creates the duality that there is 'before Tao'.

 

TTC ch14

 

Confront it, and you do not see its face.

Follow it, and you do not see its back.

...

If you hope to meet it,

it has no part you can call front.

If you hope to follow it,

it has no place you can call behind.

 

Once you have become Tao the distinctions of 'before and after' are no longer.

and the king follows earth..............yes....i like the before and after chopping wood and carrying water

There has to be a before Tao...........no matter what it is a concept and an idea and a word.

Maybe that is why the ancients never told others about it in the first place,they didn't have a word for it so they didn't have to talk about it...they just enjoyed it.

They didn't need a word for it. They were happy to just chop wood and carry water, to see the wonder of nature ,to lay down with their old lady ,smoke a cigarette, pee on a tree,watch their children grow, and play, playing along with them, they grew a few veggies alongside they grew enough rice to get them thru whatever was necessary ,

laid out in the sun and played with their animal friends , had the neighbors over for a cup of tea, rising with the sun ,because it was such an amazing time of day,speaking to the birds, bees...talking to flowers and bugs alike....... watching the squirrels race around looking for chestnuts, soaking in a pond, and just breathing deep the beauty that surrounded them, not a care in the world and a big smile upon their face.

Thank you Stig, you were most helpful.

[松永道]

There has to be a before Tao...........no matter what it is a concept and an idea and a word.

 

 

Tao Te Ching Chapter One

The Tao that can be spoken of is not the eternal Tao.

The name that can be named is not the eternal name.

The nameless is the beginning of heaven and Earth.

The named is the mother of the ten thousand things.

Ever desireless, one can see the mystery.

Ever desiring, one sees the manifestations.

These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness.

Darkness within darkness.

The gate to all mystery.

 

 

Maybe that is why the ancients never told others about it in the first place,they didn't have a word for it so they didn't have to talk about it...they just enjoyed it.

 

Edited September 26, 2008 by 松永道

[Unconditioned]

Now I have arrived at this moment in my existence, where the Dao is becoming another contrivance and all discussion about it seems, just entertainment............don't get me wrong the adventure internally has been the most exciting of them all, because it has led me back to nature which has led me back to me and the realization that all nature including me and you are the same even though appearences may differ.

 

It is as it is, which you already know, you're already there. Drop the label and just be what you are. That's all we can do, that's all we ever do. The only difference is some are aware of it some are not.

 

Feet on the ground, head in the clouds.

 

Enjoy your being, your existence, your opportunity to experience the life from this manifestation.

[metzu]

Tao Te Ching Chapter One

The Tao that can be spoken of is not the eternal Tao.

The name that can be named is not the eternal name.

The nameless is the beginning of heaven and Earth.

The named is the mother of the ten thousand things.

Ever desireless, one can see the mystery.

Ever desiring, one sees the manifestations.

These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness.

Darkness within darkness.

The gate to all mystery.

Thank you

 

It is as it is, which you already know, you're already there. Drop the label and just be what you are. That's all we can do, that's all we ever do. The only difference is some are aware of it some are not.

 

Feet on the ground, head in the clouds.

 

Enjoy your being, your existence, your opportunity to experience the life from this manifestation.

Thank you

[rodgerj]

Edited August 30, 2009 by rodgerj

[White Lily]

Gorgeous words, dear Joe. For me the experience of just being here deepens and deepens further into mystery, even if the experience includes pain. I am reading Against the Pollution of the I, by the late Jacques Lusseyran, who describes beautifully the mystical sensory experience of being blind. What he says to me is that we have barely tapped into the state of being present and alive. For him, paying attention is critical and we scarcely know how to do this. I, myself, am trying to leave wordiness and concepts behind in order to truly touch the world.

[thelerner]

Its hard to argue against the philosophy of 'Before Enlightenment carry wood and water, After enlightenment Carry wood and water. To quiet the mind and go deeper into the moment is indeed one of the greatest challenges.

 

But there are others. There are esoterisms to be considered and explored. I've got to credit Ron Jeremy for this saying that struck me, 'How will your practice help you once you're dead?'

 

One one hand who knows what happens when you die. On the other, there are practices, dream control, phowa, astral travel etc. that give tantalizing clues and skills.

 

To chase after those 'powers' early is probably a waste. Without a long strong developed practice you're climbing the limb of an undeveloped tree. But I think after the Dao of the tic toc world there are others to explore.

 

Maybe after this Dao, That Dao. maybe.

 

 

Michael

[metzu]

Its hard to argue against the philosophy of 'Before Enlightenment carry wood and water, After enlightenment Carry wood and water. To quiet the mind and go deeper into the moment is indeed one of the greatest challenges.

 

But there are others. There are esoterisms to be considered and explored. I've got to credit Ron Jeremy for this saying that struck me, 'How will your practice help you once you're dead?'

 

One one hand who knows what happens when you die. On the other, there are practices, dream control, phowa, astral travel etc. that give tantalizing clues and skills.

 

To chase after those 'powers' early is probably a waste. Without a long strong developed practice you're climbing the limb of an undeveloped tree. But I think after the Dao of the tic toc world there are others to explore.

 

Maybe after this Dao, That Dao. maybe.

Michael

 

Your maybe's remind me of a Taoist story, I am not sure if it is pertinent to this discussion, but it is interesting about one who was a simple man working and living in this world.

A farmer's horse ran away. That evening the neighbors gathered to commiserate with him since this was bad luck. He said "May be." The next day the horse returned and brought 6 wild horses, and the neighbors came exclaiming at his good fortune. He said "May be." And then the following day , his son tried to saddle one of the wild horses and was thrown, breaking his leg. Again the neighbors came to offer their sympathy for the misfortune. He said, "May be." The day after that ,conscription officers came to the village to seize young men for the army, but because of the broken leg the farmers son was rejected. When the neighbors came in to say how fortunatly everything had turned out, he said,"May be."

 

Another illustration of this story from my own experience:

My stepson who was twenty years old,and still living with my wife and I was constantly goofing off with college, had been to 3 colleges got asked to leave the first one, the others he just played with. Very expensive .

I had opened a restuarant and he came to work with me.

One day my chef called to say he had a flat tire and he wouldn't be in till noon. He showed up at eight o'clock that night..

When he came in I was upset and yelled at him," go home I don't need you." My stepson said you can't talk to him that way. I grabbed my stepson and said pack your things you have to move out of my home. His mother and everyone was very upset with me.

He moved in with his grand mother and in quick order graduated from college with a degree in philosophy.

Almost immediately he moved 1900 miles away to Florida, to become a scuba diving instructor.

He got a job with an outfit that took people out on their boat to scuba dive, one of Michael's (my step sons name) responsibilities was to take their clients on a dive were he would feed the sharks.

He got careless and got bitten in the leg by one of the sharks, needing 400 stitches ,they saved his leg, but he was laid up for a year and decided to go back to schoo He got his masters degree from U. of Miami, then went on to get his Doctorate at St. Andrews in Scotland. Meanwhile he got his Captains License, crossed the atlantic with two friends.

Had I not told him to move out he probably never would have graduated from Towson University.

Had he not been bitten by the shark he probably would have never gone back to to school.

Today he has His own business doing what he left home to do, he has his own home. And appears to be doing very well "May Be"

We never know what life has in store for us around the next corner.