Chan or Zen wich is closer to Taoism, or am i just spiliting hairs?

[mewtwo]

So witch one is closer Chan or Zen to Taoism?

[林愛偉]

So witch one is closer Chan or Zen to Taoism?

 

Neither.

[Spiritual_Aspirant]

I think the two are different. I might be wrong but in my opinion, Taoist practices are mentally active while Zen practices are similar to some Indian Yogic meditations where the goal is to lull the activity of the mind. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[林愛偉]

I think the two are different. I might be wrong but in my opinion, Taoist practices are mentally active while Zen practices are similar to some Indian Yogic meditations where the goal is to lull the activity of the mind. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

 

The Chan School is a system of cultivation passed down from Shakyamuni Buddha to many great sages.

The Chan school is about non-dual teachings, sudden and gradual are the same...look to abide with conditions, be content. Not moved the mind is undefiled, internal and externa, there is no holder of its distinctions.

 

This state, though explained, is not realized unless under proper guidance.

 

Daoism is a school of cultivation focusing on the cultivation of the Dantian, attainment of immortality, and then, one must further their cultivation. It encompasses virtue and moral cultivation, which is important in both "spiritual" and "worldly" realms.

 

Both schools teach similar techniques, and may use different methods to expound those techniques.

 

Immortality is only immortality once the causes of rebirth are cut off. This is in both Daoism and Buddhism. Thus is the same in Chan.

 

Different to a degree..but that is peripheral...not total..it is illusory, not real.

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin

[Aetherous]

The practice of shikantaza in the Soto school of Zen could be considered parallel to Taoism, in my opinion.

[Spiritual_Aspirant]

The Chan School is a system of cultivation passed down from Shakyamuni Buddha to many great sages.

The Chan school is about non-dual teachings, sudden and gradual are the same...look to abide with conditions, be content. Not moved the mind is undefiled, internal and externa, there is no holder of its distinctions.

 

This state, though explained, is not realized unless under proper guidance.

 

Daoism is a school of cultivation focusing on the cultivation of the Dantian, attainment of immortality, and then, one must further their cultivation. It encompasses virtue and moral cultivation, which is important in both "spiritual" and "worldly" realms.

 

Both schools teach similar techniques, and may use different methods to expound those techniques.

 

Immortality is only immortality once the causes of rebirth are cut off. This is in both Daoism and Buddhism. Thus is the same in Chan.

 

Different to a degree..but that is peripheral...not total..it is illusory, not real.

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin

 

Thanks, that was very informative

[qirin]

I think the two are different. I might be wrong but in my opinion, Taoist practices are mentally active while Zen practices are similar to some Indian Yogic meditations where the goal is to lull the activity of the mind. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

I've been struck by this a number of times, that zen is basically a japanese version of indian raja yoga. I am not sure that I agree with the use of the word "lull," though, as both zen and raja yoga involve pretty intense concentration.

[doc benway]

Since Chan is Chinese and Zen is Japanese, I'd say Chan is "closer"...

Beyond this, I think that Chan and Zen are two slightly different cultural expressions of the same underlying doctrine.

[Unconditioned]

I've been struck by this a number of times, that zen is basically a japanese version of indian raja yoga. I am not sure that I agree with the use of the word "lull," though, as both zen and raja yoga involve pretty intense concentration.

 

Agreed!

 

The goal of this type of meditation is not to dull or lull the mind. That is being idle. The goal is to observe the thoughts that pass. In doing so, over time the thoughts may become less frequent and the grip of the mind on one's awareness lessens until one can realize/experience the state of 'no-mind' or 'inner silence'. In that state, it is easy to see what one is and what one is not.

 

Ultimately, it leads to insights, sharpening of awareness, rather than a dull mind.

 

Ok, now that I've derailed the conversation... I agree that China is geographically closer to Taoism

 

Edit: replaced geologically with geographically.. yikes!

Edited September 29, 2008 by Unconditioned

[guangping]

Cha'an Buddhism was brought to China by the Indian warrior monk Da Mo, who also is credited for starting Shaolin martial arts. It's a cultural interpretation of an Indian yoga practice.

 

Zen is the same thing with a slight name change when it was exported to Japan, and filtered through their cultural lense.

[The Apprentice]

Hui Neng, the 6th Chan patriarch, neither had a teacher before his awakening nor did he do are advicate doing sitting meditation. His Platform Sutra is considered by many to be the most important historical Chan writting.

 

Taoism and a butchered Buddhism existed in China before Bodhidharma's arrival. Taoism as an ancient system is very much alive in Chan. All these words are just paint for the blank canvas of mind.

[林愛偉]

Hui Neng, the 6th Chan patriarch, neither had a teacher before his awakening nor did he do are advicate doing sitting meditation. His Platform Sutra is considered by many to be the most important historical Chan writting.

 

Taoism and a butchered Buddhism existed in China before Bodhidharma's arrival. Taoism as an ancient system is very much alive in Chan. All these words are just paint for the blank canvas of mind.

 

 

Yes! The 6th Patriarch heard a verse of the Diamond sutra being recited one day.

That verse was/is: "Produce that thought which is no where supported."

 

Before Bodhidharma's arrival, Buddhism was not well "put-together" in China. It arrived in 67 AD

and the Sutra that first arrived was the Sutra in 42 Sections. It was brought by extremely high level cultivators.

 

I wrote the story in some thread on the forum a time ago... its a mouth full indeedy.

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin

Edited September 29, 2008 by 林愛偉