A Gathering of Immortals

[Stigweard]

amazing.

and a wonderul idea to say the least.

by the way, it is my opinion that it is a good thing if people in general start 'thinking big' instead of thinking negatively that for example they can not do it. i don't think anybody ever got better by thinking negatively, but people -have- gotten better by thinking just like they really wanted to.

 

I appreciate exactly what you are saying. We have indeed thought 'big' as you will see through this thread What the process now is about is to start identifying an action plan to head us down the path, and, as you will witness by participating in this process, pin-pointing the hurdles first does actually get things going. The next step after this is to creatively solve those hurdles/obstacles and these solutions become the action steps or goals needed to be fulfilled.

 

Now there are two ways to identify these hurdles. The first way is to stand where we are now and project our minds down the road toward this goal and see what are the very first obstacles we will encounter. Then what is the next one after that, and then after that as far as our forethought can take us.

 

The second step is to imagine that we have just achieved the goal in hand and then 'look back' down the path we have traversed and identify what hurdles were the last ones we encountered, and then the ones before that and so on back along our imaginary path.

 

Returning to the list then:

 

- Lack of money

- No idea where to establish it

- Don't have a committee - a group of people that are going to do it for sure and make the decisions

- Don't have clear objectives in place

- Don't have a architectual plan for the facilities

- How do we be self-supportive within the community in terms of food, resources, and money

- What teachings will be available

- Is it a Taoist complex or a Buddhist or eccletic

- Which teachers will be on residence

- How do we motivate people to get involved

- Where do we start

- How do we let the greater community know what we are about

- How do we be 'in the world but not of the world'

- How do we make sure the intent stays pure and this intent is passed down from generation to generation

 

??

[froggie]

what i can tell you is to at least not worry about politics much, because if enough people want it it's just so much easyer to make it happen anyway.

people, even 'officials' tend to go along with good sentiments of a lot of (plenty) people.

(i guess it's the nature of things?

 

the same goes for the internal structure, don't worry about it too much, unspoken conducts will develope naturally and keep an open but still very virtuous 'pragmatism'. imo that's the best, least rigid and actual natural progression

Edited December 2, 2008 by froggie

[松永道]

- Lack of money

This is a problem.

 

 

- No idea where to establish it

Unless someone already has a plot of land somewhere, the exact place isn't too important. Water, mountains, forest, arable land are important.

 

- Don't have a committee - a group of people that are going to do it for sure and make the decisions

I think it will come down to one person getting something going. I'll be working with my teacher and other Chinese on putting together a Chinese Medicine, Taijiquan, and Neigong education center in China. If we have success there, I'll be able to bring the structure anywhere. Though if someone else gets something solid going sooner, I could help there too.

 

- Don't have clear objectives in place

My vision is simple: teach and demonstrate the Way. To me that means understanding, following and cultivating the laws of nature. 天人合一。 Heaven and Man are One.

 

Living in harmony with our environment. Permaculture farming. Sustainable living. Solar, wind, geothermal, methane; using 'full-circle' or 'cradle-to-cradle' technologies. Study technical skills of green living.

 

Living in harmony with our community. Emphasis on interpersonal understanding. Study of human commonality. Traditional and modern medicine, anatomy, physiology, exercise, history, and psychology.

 

Living in harmony with oneself. Personal cultivation. Study of human uniqueness. Discovering and pursuing your individual destiny. Arts and spirituality.

 

In ancient China there was a phrase, "to go to the mountain". It meant to leave society for a time, intensively cultivate, and later return a Zhen Ren, sage or real human. This is what I envision for such a place. Certainly not a monastery to live out your lifetime, though some in house teachers, doctors, farmers, etc who may stay for quite a long time. Though I'm not sure a strict curriculum is a good idea, I imagine the school could have three types of visitors. Patients, short-term live-in retreat students, and long-term live-in students. I want students to come here to "go to the mountain," and afterwards return to society well equipped to make to world a better place

 

- Don't have a architectual plan for the facilities

I have an idea for this but I don't know how to upload pictures.

 

 

- How do we be self-supportive within the community in terms of food, resources, and money

Grow food and herbs, receive donations, for-charge teachings and medical treatments. (ideally to be able to offer free teachings and treatments) Potentially look into affiliation with the Unitarian Church and offer some free teachings by way of Sunday sermons.

 

 

- What teachings will be available

There will have to be some sort of process to review teachers, a board of enlightened sages perhaps? A good faculty should be able to work together and interview and select new teachers. As any particular tradition - I'm open to all of them: Taoist, Buddhist, Hindu, Shamanic, Christian, Islamic, etc but to be sure, emphasis must be on the essence of these teachings, not the ritual. Ritual belongs in history class. We are interested in the meaning not the words.

 

 

- Is it a Taoist complex or a Buddhist or eccletic

Eclectic. A good teacher is a good teacher.

 

 

- Which teachers will be on residence

The ones who would like to be.

 

 

- How do we motivate people to get involved

Not sweating this one. If you build it, they will come.

 

- Where do we start

By achieving as much of our individual potential as possible. We need giants to build this thing not a bunch of broken people. Succeed at what you're good at. Any and all skill sets will come in handy once this thing starts coming together.

 

 

- How do we let the greater community know what we are about

Not a concern. If you build it, they will come.

 

 

- How do we be 'in the world but not of the world'

I'm of the world. I'm also not of the world.

 

 

- How do we make sure the intent stays pure and this intent is passed down from generation to generation

Cross our fingers. Nothing lasts forever.

[Ya Mu]

Are you guys familiar with the National Qigong Association in the USA (NQA.org)? Has conventions every year. In the past it has been encouraged different traditions of teaching to be presented. I would suggest someone that has seen the ebbs and flows of that organization to review it's beginnings to where it is now so as to avoid it's pitfalls (ebb) and embrace its flow. I am a member of the organization and do recognize that it is very difficult to get everyone to agree to things. We spent years coming up with clinical/medical qigong standards.

[thelerner]

Trunk had some interesting websites on small self sustaining commune style villages and super productive micro farms. He may be a source for some good links.

 

There are tiny monasteries, mostly Roman Catholic that dot the American landscape. There are few here in Chicagoland. With few monks, they're used as especially peacerful bed and breakfasts. They offer little more then peace, quiet and contemplation, but thats a welcome change for many. Part of a future plan might include that type of B&B.

 

Contacting Silent Grounds it may be both instructional and a cautionary tale. They had a retreat on a Canadian Island, it was a great program run by very dedicated people, but I think it ultimately folded. Minke De Vos was instrumental in it, you can contact her through silentgrounds.com, I think there is a link in Links section here.

 

 

Yours

 

Michael

[Stigweard]

Thank you SYD, excellent suggestions.

 

- Lack of money

This is a problem.

 

Indeed it is a challenge on a number of levels. Firstly because if the venture is too commercial then the integrity is compromised. So the core business, i.e. as spiritual learning centre, must in my mind be freely available to all (unconditional donations of course would be accepted).

 

So the spiritual/educational side must be financially supplemented with the commercial/industrial components of the community. I personally envision land zoned for commercial, light industrial, and agriculture. A strict adherence to right livelihood and environmental sustainability is a must.

 

The other options include donations from non-controlling benefactors and grants, though I would personally prefer a status of internal sufficiency.

 

- Don't have a committee - a group of people that are going to do it for sure and make the decisions

I think it will come down to one person getting something going. I'll be working with my teacher and other Chinese on putting together a Chinese Medicine, Taijiquan, and Neigong education center in China. If we have success there, I'll be able to bring the structure anywhere. Though if someone else gets something solid going sooner, I could help there too.

 

I would be most interested in learning of all your progress and innovations.

 

- Don't have clear objectives in place

My vision is simple: teach and demonstrate the Way. To me that means understanding, following and cultivating the laws of nature. 天人合一。 Heaven and Man are One.

 

Living in harmony with our environment. Permaculture farming. Sustainable living. Solar, wind, geothermal, methane; using 'full-circle' or 'cradle-to-cradle' technologies. Study technical skills of green living.

 

Living in harmony with our community. Emphasis on interpersonal understanding. Study of human commonality. Traditional and modern medicine, anatomy, physiology, exercise, history, and psychology.

 

Living in harmony with oneself. Personal cultivation. Study of human uniqueness. Discovering and pursuing your individual destiny. Arts and spirituality.

 

In ancient China there was a phrase, "to go to the mountain". It meant to leave society for a time, intensively cultivate, and later return a Zhen Ren, sage or real human. This is what I envision for such a place. Certainly not a monastery to live out your lifetime, though some in house teachers, doctors, farmers, etc who may stay for quite a long time. Though I'm not sure a strict curriculum is a good idea, I imagine the school could have three types of visitors. Patients, short-term live-in retreat students, and long-term live-in students. I want students to come here to "go to the mountain," and afterwards return to society well equipped to make to world a better place

 

Excellent suggestions.

 

"to go to the mountain" ... I like it.

 

- What teachings will be available

There will have to be some sort of process to review teachers, a board of enlightened sages perhaps? A good faculty should be able to work together and interview and select new teachers. As any particular tradition - I'm open to all of them: Taoist, Buddhist, Hindu, Shamanic, Christian, Islamic, etc but to be sure, emphasis must be on the essence of these teachings, not the ritual. Ritual belongs in history class. We are interested in the meaning not the words.

 

You have my vote ... I agree.

 

- Where do we start

By achieving as much of our individual potential as possible. We need giants to build this thing not a bunch of broken people. Succeed at what you're good at. Any and all skill sets will come in handy once this thing starts coming together.

 

Precisely correct ... I envision vocational opportunities for many people.

 

Thank you SYD ... exactly the imput to keep the cogs turning

 

Are you guys familiar with the National Qigong Association in the USA (NQA.org)? Has conventions every year. In the past it has been encouraged different traditions of teaching to be presented. I would suggest someone that has seen the ebbs and flows of that organization to review it's beginnings to where it is now so as to avoid it's pitfalls (ebb) and embrace its flow. I am a member of the organization and do recognize that it is very difficult to get everyone to agree to things. We spent years coming up with clinical/medical qigong standards.

 

Cheers Ya Mu ... what lessons have you learned from your involvement with this organization?

 

Trunk had some interesting websites on small self sustaining commune style villages and super productive micro farms. He may be a source for some good links.

 

Thanks for the heads up on this Michael ... Trunk?????

 

There are tiny monasteries, mostly Roman Catholic that dot the American landscape. There are few here in Chicagoland. With few monks, they're used as especially peacerful bed and breakfasts. They offer little more then peace, quiet and contemplation, but thats a welcome change for many. Part of a future plan might include that type of B&B.

 

A great idea Micheal! I my mind was heading in that direction as well. Perhaps it would transpire that there is a central community with outlying cottages etc. for your idea. Good one!

 

Contacting Silent Grounds it may be both instructional and a cautionary tale. They had a retreat on a Canadian Island, it was a great program run by very dedicated people, but I think it ultimately folded. Minke De Vos was instrumental in it, you can contact her through silentgrounds.com, I think there is a link in Links section here.

 

Learning from others experiences would be valuable indeed. I have had personal experience of communities that thrive and ones that are disfunctional at best. I have contaced Minke and am waiting a response.

 

Cheers,

[Stigweard]

 

 

City Model by Jacque Fresco

 

 

Edit: Given credit to designer.

Edited December 14, 2008 by Stigweard

[fiveelementtao]

Hey Stig!

What a really COOL idea

I have found that some energy systems do not blend well with others and in fact some energies can be harmful if blended together. I have also come to believe that different energy systems have different purposes in the grand scheme of the Universe. How would you suggest that these differences be dealt with?

 

Would this be like a University where people come to learn different things?

[thelerner]

Nice picture, the buldings are an inspiration on how form follows fuction follows nature. Can't help but think of Atlantis meets the I Ching.

 

 

Yours

 

Michael

[Aetherous]

Wow Stig you're thinking big, huh?

[Stigweard]

[ZenStatic]

Speaking on the picture, why not have the 3 rings actually contain the trigrams and create a giant bagua?

[Stigweard]

Speaking on the picture, why not have the 3 rings actually contain the trigrams and create a giant bagua?

 

Why not indeed ...

[fiveelementtao]

What do you mean exactly when you say 'energy systems'? Do you mean metaphysical systems like the taoist five elements and the kabbalistic four elements?

 

Could you please tell me more about what you have found?

 

Well, in terms of energy cultivation, I learned some exercises, meditations, etc.. in my tradition that I have found are not energetically compatible with some other traditions' energetic disciplines. Basically- mixing traditions gave me chi sickness. Also what about theoretical differences? for example, some taoists disagree about yin and yang. I met with a master who believed that Yin was the right side and Yang was the left. I was taught the opposite. I can see how this kind of mixing of cultivation techniques and differing theories could create snags when we share techniques. How would we deal with "my Kung Fu better" type of disagreements? How would we handle these kinds of differing views?

[松永道]

Well, in terms of energy cultivation, I learned some exercises, meditations, etc.. in my tradition that I have found are not energetically compatible with some other traditions' energetic disciplines. Basically- mixing traditions gave me chi sickness. Also what about theoretical differences? for example, some taoists disagree about yin and yang. I met with a master who believed that Yin was the right side and Yang was the left. I was taught the opposite. I can see how this kind of mixing of cultivation techniques and differing theories could create snags when we share techniques. How would we deal with "my Kung Fu better" type of disagreements? How would we handle these kinds of differing views?

 

This is why Masters should be able to communicate directly with one another. Seeming confusions like your Yin/Yang example can be surprisingly easily settled between adepts with skill beyond language. It's only confusing for students who haven't yet practiced the meaning out of their forms and words.

 

Of course, I'm not saying all practices do the same thing. Some really shouldn't be practiced at the same time. But this too should be immediately obvious.

 

The techniques must be mixed by people who already understand them, not by students taking a little from here and a little from there, haphazardly. Not that some people can't find value doing so, but if we are going to systematically explore and compare these techniques, we need to work with masters of these traditions. Masters unwilling transcend the "my Kung Fu is better" mentality won't be able to participate. This is about research, not hubris, we're looking for cultivators with a genuine interest in research, exploration, and the improvement of humanity and our relation with the universe. If a "master" can't even check his ego, he disqualifies himself.

[thelerner]

Here is a Trunk link of such places:

 

Tons of info about this sort of thing at the Intentional Communities Website (ic.org).

http://www.ic.org/

 

Great link connecting caring communities. He also had some links on super abundant minimalist farming. Cool stuff.

 

 

 

Michael

[Stigweard]

I agree here completely. In this I suggest adopting the scientific method in examining the facts.

 

When engineers meet they don't discuss opinions, they discuss proven facts. If one says, "This armature I have created can withstand 4000 pounds of pressure" then another engineer can take that armature, test it and say, "You are right."

 

If I say the Taiji I have developed helps people relax in the best way then that can be tested one way or the other. In this way I see a research institute evolving.

 

This is why Masters should be able to communicate directly with one another. Seeming confusions like your Yin/Yang example can be surprisingly easily settled between adepts with skill beyond language. It's only confusing for students who haven't yet practiced the meaning out of their forms and words.

 

Of course, I'm not saying all practices do the same thing. Some really shouldn't be practiced at the same time. But this too should be immediately obvious.

 

The techniques must be mixed by people who already understand them, not by students taking a little from here and a little from there, haphazardly. Not that some people can't find value doing so, but if we are going to systematically explore and compare these techniques, we need to work with masters of these traditions. Masters unwilling transcend the "my Kung Fu is better" mentality won't be able to participate. This is about research, not hubris, we're looking for cultivators with a genuine interest in research, exploration, and the improvement of humanity and our relation with the universe. If a "master" can't even check his ego, he disqualifies himself.

[Wayfarer64]

Its unfortunate that we have this discussion in two threads, partially. This is where egos get upset about who is wiser than another. This is not about the "I am am wiser" pedestal. It is about the teachings that are expounded being in accord with teachings of wholesome education. Maybe there are people out there that have the eyes to tell what is and isn't wholesome... Does it have to be someone from the Taobums...? I use the Buddha Dharma to see the truth of something. Other people use other methods... but in truth, wholesomeness is wholesomeness regardless of its package.

What's premature?

No. Its not a mystery school, and no one is deciding what's worthy and not. What is being established is a platform for wholesome cultivation. It is a shame that some people can't recognize wholesome cultivation, and those that do are looked down upon as being egotistical and conclusive.

This is why it was stated that because we are going to lay down this platform, our virtue and conduct must be pure. We must cultivate even more diligently. What I am saying is for people to realize Buddhahood! Act like the Buddhas, think like them, sit like them, eat like them, talk like them, meditate like them.. these seeds eventually result in its respective outcome...just don't say "I am a Buddha"....

 

Realization of one's Original Nature is amazingly a slap in the head! One should be able to tell what they have awakened to. It becomes quite apparent, the defiled state, and the state of Non-Production.

 

Peace,

Lin

 

 

 

the way I hear it the Buddha ate too much and died of gastric problems- he too seems to have been swept up in hero-worship in the end...and The Christ had such a bad end as to be avoided as well-

 

lets just be ourselves and leave the value judgements behind-

 

this seems very self engrandizeing -why not just have a meeting of seekers without claims of any sort-?

 

 

I have designed a few buildings meant to be panthiist centers that are based on Bagua (8 sided central atrium surrounded by a park, not archatectural but on graph paper with feng shui being the most enclusive basis for design...It is a long held dream of mine.

 

let us buy a lottery ticket together- using our collective energy to win the funds?!

 

it may just work!

Edited December 15, 2008 by Wayfarer64

[fiveelementtao]

lets just be ourselves and leave the value judgements behind-

 

I second that!

[Wayfarer64]

I have a very good friend who is a 'green" architect in California...materials used is very important isn't it?

 

and I'm serious about using our massed intent to win a lottery to pay for the construction of this viable and doable(with $$$) idea-

[Lucky7Strikes]

Money...

 

Money is always the wall you run into when dreaming big like this...

 

A school, research center, a clinic, a commune, a farm filled with virtuous cultivators? Wow...I wish there was a school like that and not necessarily a monastery.

 

But money...land...connections...

 

Whew!

 

And one still needs to continue exploring the various methods out there...

 

Got a lot to do .

Edited July 19, 2009 by Lucky7Strikes

[林愛偉]

Money...

 

Money is always the wall you run into when dreaming big like this...

 

A school, research center, a clinic, a commune, a farm filled with virtuous cultivators? Wow...I wish there was a school like that and not necessarily a monastery.

 

But money...land...connections...

 

Whew!

 

And one still needs to continue exploring the various methods out there...

 

Got a lot to do .

 

 

I started one on a small level, but reaching the community through grassroots projects.

I have a clinic, cultivation school, martial arts training, and ability to do research on line. Not a monastery, but early morning practice and daily Sutra studies.

 

Peace,

Lin

[Lucky7Strikes]

I started one on a small level, but reaching the community through grassroots projects.

I have a clinic, cultivation school, martial arts training, and ability to do research on line. Not a monastery, but early morning practice and daily Sutra studies.

 

Peace,

Lin

 

Great!

 

Baby steps first I guess.. .

 

If the intentions are good, hopefully someone will drop by with a sack of gold!

Edited July 19, 2009 by Lucky7Strikes

[林愛偉]

Great!

 

Baby steps first I guess.. .

 

If the intentions are good, hopefully someone will drop by with a sack of gold!

 

hahaha

 

its a small humble little place. No gold please! I like it poor and rugged.

 

besides, everything here is donated, except tuition...haha . I have no need for cash except for rent...

 

Peace,

Lin

Edited July 19, 2009 by 林愛偉

[Stigweard]

Interesting that this thread should resurface now