Why is payment necessary for learning the Tao?

[Li Jiong]

Ordinary person is a self-closed system, generally they could not accept the things spiritual. To open to the spiritual world, you must open a door on your closed circle first. Payment is just the open sesame, it also suggests that you give your heart to the Tao. If one says I love the Tao, but actually he would not like to pay a dollar, we know he is not sincere obviously.

On the other hand, as we know, to achieve a high level of internal cultivation, one must have a very good virtue, otherwise, he/she will not be able to bear the great energy from the Tao. It is a great virtue to support the genuine cultivators, so payment or donation is also necessary for your virtue.

During the past 20 years, I have paid more than100,000CNY for learning the Tao. Of course, till now, what I gained are already much more than what I paid.

[松永道]

Edited October 1, 2008 by 松永道

[Franklin]

not related to any style or system

 

 

i think there is payment required for learning

but not all the time it is money....

 

 

 

Franklin

[dragonfire]

I have someone I learn from time to time. I actually found him online. He says he has opened up his 3rd eye, crown, and achieved union with god. He has seen the white light and golden lights. I don't pay him any money and I've been learning from him for over a year now. Thats just me, but he may charge other people.

 

I think the reason he doesn't charge me is because he doesn't see me as his student. I was simply inquiring about something and the subject turned to tao and since then I've been learning from him.

 

I honestly believe if a person is the real deal and has achieved immortality or close to it, he should not charge people to learn from him. He of course will understand human suffering and Karma. If people choose to give him money or donate, then I think that is better, but I do not believe he should request payment.

 

It is those that have not achieved success in the practice that will charge people. It is those people that have only obtained a certain level, say level 4 and want to charge people.

 

John Chang never charged his students, yet his students go out and charge other people who want to learn now, because they think they deserve it after the costs for flying to indonesia to train.

 

In my mind, there is desire to have power and wealth! This is only for those that do not have it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

not related to any style or system

i think there is payment required for learning

but not all the time it is money....

Franklin

[Spirit Ape]

Well i think Li Jong and David Verdasi could be related!

 

When people become monks and Taoist ordained in there temples is there a fee, or when you become a monk in the temple all the information is free. The Buddhist libraries and temples give away free books on spirituality!

 

Ape

[Li Jiong]

[Spirit Ape]

anthropomorphous Heshouwu, what is that?

[dragonfire]

I think Verdasi might have some level of knowledge, but its no secret, in my mind. The secret is already out there. Go find it. We have more resources today at our feet than even some monks in cambodia who have no internet access or libraries. He charges ridiculous fees... $7000 USD per course. Thats not even including airfare and hotel. Together its more like 10K per course. Thats a lot of money. I think he should lower the costs so more people can afford to learn if he really knows something. Plus, I don't even think the money should go to him, at least the majority. Most of it should go to charity or non-profit organization for the Tao.

 

I'm pretty sure most of the time its all free. When you become a monk, you do work to help the

temple though, not for any particular person. If a monk writes a book, most likely the money will

be to help the temple expand.

 

 

 

Well i think Li Jong and David Verdasi could be related!

 

When people become monks and Taoist ordained in there temples is there a fee, or when you become a monk in the temple all the information is free. The Buddhist libraries and temples give away free books on spirituality!

 

Ape

[YMWong]

anthropomorphous Heshouwu, what is that?

 

A kind of chinese medicinal root (Radix Polygoni Multiflori) that may, like any other root, at times grow in the shape of a human body.

That's one of the many common "fake" products sold nowadays in China and even the 'real' ones are simply standard roots with another shape, nothing medicinally special apart from its shape.

 

http://images.google.com.hk/images?um=1&am...G=Search+Images

 

 

YM

[Li Jiong]

He says he has opened up his 3rd eye, crown, and achieved union with god. He has seen the white light and golden lights.

These are the signs that he has achieved the third step, still very far away from Yang Shen state.

[松永道]

Do you know you are talking about something you don't know?

I never feel shame that I chagre money for my teaching, and I did mention this fact more than once.

I know your level exactly now, this is my last reply to you, now I know you are not the one i am waiting for.

 

 

Surely? So if I wanted to buy your course you'd turn me away?

 

Li Jiong, the problem is, your answers as to why you charge (and to many other things) have been completely inconsistent. First you said it was out of fairness to your students who have already paid. Then you said you needed money. Now you say money is the spiritual "open sesame". So what's the real reason?

 

And what's this "I know your level exactly now...now I know you are not the one i am waiting for"? I guess that's supposed to hurt my feelings but I rather wonder what took you so long, enlightened as you are? Funny thing, for as unenlightened as I am, I knew you weren't for me from your very first post here.

 

Nevertheless, even a pianzi deserves compassion. Honestly, good luck seeking the Da Dao.

[Li Jiong]

A kind of chinese medicinal root (Radix Polygoni Multiflori) that may, like any other root, at times grow in the shape of a human body.

That's one of the many common "fake" products sold nowadays in China and even the 'real' ones are simply standard roots with another shape, nothing medicinally special apart from its shape.

 

http://images.google.com.hk/images?um=1&am...G=Search+Images

 

 

YM

Thanks for the information.

The one I got was not such fake things. About two years ago, we walked on a mountain, my teaher found that, and pulled it out to me, and said I would need it soon. It looked through the ages, not like the puffiness ones showed in the picture.

Edited October 1, 2008 by Li Jiong

[Spirit Ape]

Interesting looking herb, what do they do for you Li Jong?

[Li Jiong]

Interesting looking herb, what do they do for you Li Jong?

I soaked it into liqueur, about a year later, I achieved the sixth step, formed my own small Xuanji Matrix. My teacher said it was the time to drink it. I drank all the liqueur within 3 days, and praticed all the time in these days. I saw gallant scene of Xiantian Qi (we can call it negative mass matter too) first, everytime when I closed my eyes, I saw these light points flow nicely around by body, they strengthened my Xuanji Matrix rapidly. To the third day, suddenly, I saw there was a baby in my Dantian, and later, it rised up slowly, and went out from my crown. And then, I feel my body disappeared, there is just a colours baby on the sky. Didn't know how many time passed, the nice baby alighted from the sky slowly, and then I could feel my body again. When I opened my eyes, it was very dark outside, it was late at night already, I remembered that I started practice at dusk.

[Spirit Ape]

Incrediable sounded like a hallucination without drugs or the herb created this?

[Gerard]

Fake. That legend has been going around for many centuries:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandrake_(plant)

 

 

That Chinese woman has let the root grow into a container with that shape, lol! Old trick.

 

 

Real mandrake root:

 

 

[YMWong]

Incrediable sounded like a hallucination without drugs or the herb created this?

 

not the herb:

 

[...] I drank all the liqueur [...]

 

 

YM

[Li Jiong]

Incrediable sounded like a hallucination without drugs or the herb created this?

I know it is my spiritual baby, from that day on, I can feel the baby anytime, and everyday, I let my spiritual baby go out my body once.

Of course, you can take it as a hallucination, it doesn't matter.

[Unconditioned]

If one says I love the Tao, but actually he would not like to pay a dollar, we know he is not sincere obviously.

On the other hand, as we know, to achieve a high level of internal cultivation, one must have a very good virtue, otherwise, he/she will not be able to bear the great energy from the Tao. It is a great virtue to support the genuine cultivators, so payment or donation is also necessary for your virtue.

During the past 20 years, I have paid more than100,000CNY for learning the Tao. Of course, till now, what I gained are already much more than what I paid.

 

Knowledge is free. Spirituality is free. The Tao does not judge one as virtuous or non-virtuous. How did Buddha become enlightened? By paying people? No!

 

I realize that organizations and people need funding to survive but it should be out of respect - not with the expectation that if I pay someone I will receive enlightenment or some 'secret' method. I find it very condescending to suggest that one is not sincere in their practice if they do not pay large sums of money. The Tao is available to all - regardless of monetary wealth.

 

There is a guru within each of us that doesn't charge a dime. There are hundreds of free resources online that don't charge either but have the sincere goal of helping others towards Truth.

 

At a minimum, this post creates discord and pulls people away from the path. I will be using the 'block/ignore' feature on this forum more often when I see pan handlers trying to swindle people. This is the very reason I left the Christian church when I was younger. Please stop or you may drive others away as well.

[minkus]

I would be carefull with mandrake (and other plants of the same family).

Edited October 1, 2008 by minkus

[Taoist81]

Well then, maybe L Ron had it right, if payment is needed to "open the spirit world":

http://www.xenu.net/archive/prices.html

 

Of course, one must wonder, if payment is "required" how did the first human pay, and who?

Edited October 1, 2008 by Taoist81

[mYTHmAKER]

now I know you are not the one i am waiting for.

 

[Li Jiong]

Knowledge is free. Spirituality is free. The Tao does not judge one as virtuous or non-virtuous. How did Buddha become enlightened? By paying people? No!

 

I realize that organizations and people need funding to survive but it should be out of respect - not with the expectation that if I pay someone I will receive enlightenment or some 'secret' method. I find it very condescending to suggest that one is not sincere in their practice if they do not pay large sums of money. The Tao is available to all - regardless of monetary wealth.

 

There is a guru within each of us that doesn't charge a dime. There are hundreds of free resources online that don't charge either but have the sincere goal of helping others towards Truth.

 

At a minimum, this post creates discord and pulls people away from the path. I will be using the 'block/ignore' feature on this forum more often when I see pan handlers trying to swindle people. This is the very reason I left the Christian church when I was younger. Please stop or you may drive others away as well.

Nothing is realy free!

To seek for the Tao, Sakyamuni gave up hissuperior living, this is also a payment.

Yes, there are many free resources online, but do you know any of them have achieved a high level? None! they all failed or will fail.

You feel unhappy to read this thread that is because the truth I said offended your greed. Perhaps you are still not grown enough to understand "Nothing is realy free!"

At last, if you want to leave, go away please, who cares?

[dragonfire]

Giving up his standard of living is not payment. It is giving up attachment.

You can not be a good student and have time to seek wealth. They

are opposites. Its either one or the other.

 

It is only the realized person who understands that wealth is an illusion. Seek only

as much as you need to live happily poor.

 

I disagree. If your teacher believes you are meant to learn the path, he will teach you

without asking for money. My teacher believes I found him because I was meant to

find him.

 

Even Buddha gave up his palace to find the TAO... He could end up being king, but he

would not be the buddha would he.

 

 

Nothing is realy free!

To seek for the Tao, Sakyamuni gave up hissuperior living, this is also a payment.

Yes, there are many free resources online, but do you know any of them have achieved a high level? None! they all failed or will fail.

You feel unhappy to read this thread that is because the truth I said offended your greed. Perhaps you are still not grown enough to understand "Nothing is realy free!"

At last, if you want to leave, go away please, who cares?

 

 

Wow... This scientology institutions is making some serious bucks off stupid people. Most

of these people choose not to find the path on themselves, yet let others choose for them.

I guess maybe they will learn in the next re-incarnation.

 

Well then, maybe L Ron had it right, if payment is needed to "open the spirit world":

http://www.xenu.net/archive/prices.html

 

Of course, one must wonder, if payment is "required" how did the first human pay, and who?

[Zhan Zhuang]

You feel unhappy to read this thread that is because the truth I said offended your greed.

 

WE are not the greedy one's. You keep asking for payments.

All of my knowledge and experience I pass on freely to sincere seekers because I know of the benefits it will have. I ask for NOTHING in return.

Hopefully you may see the error of your ways and find the right path.