Why is payment necessary for learning the Tao?

[mYTHmAKER]

Yes, I know.

I am charging money, actually, it is nothing to do with my personal financial status, even if I am very rich, I will still charge for my teaching.

As I mentioned somewhere before, I am just playing a game, I do not care how many can be really saved, that's their business, not mine. I just offer an opportunity to everyone fairly, as for who take it, who reject it, who are hurted by it, I don't care.

 

Yes the compassion of the Buddha is a lower level of realization.

 

In fairness, the "other" Li gives all of his stuff away.

 

I think he probably lives from the (likely massive) sales of his books, but they're available for free in word/pdf/or html on their websites, as well.

 

I'm sure he's not hurting for money, but to be fair he doesn't charge for any information, practices, etc.

 

Unless you count utter devotion.

 

He's someone else I also have not met, but I've met many many of his followers and they all devote their time and energy to doing stuff free and will teach you anything they have for free.

 

It's something that's not for me, personally for various reasons but I wouldn't think to slander it in the way that many other people do.

 

 

Do you know if Li's followers make donations to him or his organization

[baloneyx]

hmm.. well my opinion on this is that Yes a good $$$ offering is a small price to pay for potential benefits. The problem in my opinion though is not how much or what you pay, but how people cannot fully trust one another in todays world. People just don't like to risk being scammed out of their hard worked money.

 

 

Its like if I were to tell you offer me $10,000 and I'll give you a motor vehicle. This vehicle could be a Ferrari which means that's $$$ well spent, or it could be a motorised scooter which means you've been ripped off.

 

So it's not paying that's the problem, it's the lack of guarantee about what you're getting that inhibits some people.

 

Of course the teacher can't always be to blame if you don't get your moneys worth, but that's another discussion anyway.

 

Thats how I see it anyway, it's not offering something that's the problem, but how you have little idea of what you're really going to get in return from your teacher. It would be great if we could fully trust everyone, but that's just not how the world is at this moment in time.

[wudangspirit]

I was wondering what your thoughts were on Ego?

 

You are right, that's also a reason for why payment is necessary.

[SiliconValley]

In fairness, the "other" Li gives all of his stuff away.

 

I think he probably lives from the (likely massive) sales of his books, but they're available for free in word/pdf/or html on their websites, as well.

 

I'm sure he's not hurting for money, but to be fair he doesn't charge for any information, practices, etc.

 

Unless you count utter devotion.

 

He's someone else I also have not met, but I've met many many of his followers and they all devote their time and energy to doing stuff free and will teach you anything they have for free.

 

It's something that's not for me, personally for various reasons but I wouldn't think to slander it in the way that many other people do.

 

 

The money part, yeah agree. But cultish thing, warnings of doom blah blah...similar to this character ...thats what I feel from reading his books

[wudangquan]

I personally don't find his teachings (and I have all of the non-public lectures and publically retracted stuff as well because I know alot of practitioners) to be particularly bad.

 

What it probably comes down to is a matter of choice, because outside of very mainstream Buddhism and Taoism, there are lots of people who require much more than LH in the area of devotional surrender.

 

Most of those dizi have never met him personally, and won't.

 

Donating money is not allowed, to answer the previous question.

 

Most of the criticism that's levelled at him by mainstream people is about:

 

1. He said bad stuff about homosexuality. Ooooh. The homophobic boogie man. How many traditional religions say much worse than "It creates a large amount of karma"?

 

2. He says aliens are trying to take over human bodies. I guess it's down to whether you believe that's a possibility or not, and having not read this part in Chinese, I can't guess as to what he's talking about specificallly, so it's open to interpretation.

 

3. He's a racist. There are plenty of Non-Chinese Dizi in that system, and what I got from reading the material on the specific issue wasn't racist at all.

 

4. He allows his followers to get persecuted, tortured, and killed. This . . . Again it's down to personal things but I think to make a value judgement on this you have to understand what THEY think they are doing. They assume themselves to be high level Taos, Buddhas and Gods who have come to earth to fix up the deviant cosmos, and by ALLOWING this stuff to happen, they are letting the deviant forces create so much huge karma that they will extinguish themselves.

 

5. It's the only way. This is probably my single biggest sticking point. He says that we're in the "dharma ending period" and that the cultivation systems we've inherited were only a prelude to allow people of this time period to know what cultivation was about. I'm neither God, nor a Buddha, nor a Tao so I don't have a great argument for it. Just . . . Not a huge fan of single-entry theme parks.

 

I don't think the classical label of "cult" is really applicable to them, though.

 

I also think that the people I know who are FD dizi are some of the greatest individuals I've ever met.

 

I kind of break things down to this:

 

Efficient: Doing things right

Effective: Doing the right things

 

I don't know how effective they are, but they are mostly efficient and I consider them to be genuine cultivators of a much higher order than alot of others.

 

The problem is you can't get a frameable wall mounted certificate and then charge people money to teach it. You have to do it for free.

 

That's the only thing akin to donations. They have to use their own time, their own money to reproduce materials, etc. but they believe in, you know. Virtue and Karma as very literal substances, so are happy to do it.

 

Anyway . . . This isn't meant as a commercial for them because I'm not one of their dizi.

 

I just feel like I should say something sometimes when it comes up, because I know alot of them, and I know enough in China, and - They are cultivating at least more efficiently than me and 99% of others in the community.

 

And in the final analysis, whether they are effective or not, or whether LH is a bogus master or whatever - I would trust most individual FD dizi with my life before I would trust anyone on this forum, anyone selling dvd's, or anyone publically teaching under the banner of "Taoism".

 

I am not interested in promoting what they do, but the individuals are . . . mostly great people. Each time I run into some I always offer them any help I can because I know what they face and if they ARE being efficient and effective, it would be a great mistake not to feed them when they're hungry, let them take a shower if they're hiding on the streets, and if I have some spare money (usually I don't) I am always happy to let them use it to print some vcd's or something because at the end of the day, whether a great human is effective in cultivating or not doesn't change the fact that they are great humans.

[seadog]

Great post Wudang.Really enjoyed what you wrote.A fine example of what means to be truly human

[Li Jiong]

Yes the compassion of the Buddha is a lower level of realization.

I offer my teahing, that is the greatest compassion I think. Otherwise, I will simply keep Xuanji Cultivation system secret, and the Westen people will not have the chance to know the genuine cultivation methods forever.

[h.uriahr]

I offer my teahing, that is the greatest compassion I think. Otherwise, I will simply keep Xuanji Cultivation system secret, and the Westen people will not have the chance to know the genuine cultivation methods forever.

I call bullshit. The greatest teachers that have ever been only needed payment in the form of dedication. Get rich schemes fade fast