Myth Busting

[Stigweard]

Here we go with the philosophical sayings Easily done with the right mindset desire to do so, however, on average, that wont happen. Good thoughts

 

LOL ... I think there is a common trait to interchange ego with 'self-importance', whereas technically, well at least in my perception, self-importance is merely an acquired feature of the ego, or sense of 'I'.

 

I personally don't believe the ego should be 'dropped' as such, merely given a good dose of feng shui

[h.uriahr]

LOL ... I think there is a common trait to interchange ego with 'self-importance', whereas technically, well at least in my perception, self-importance is merely an acquired feature of the ego, or sense of 'I'.

 

I personally don't believe the ego should be 'dropped' as such, merely given a good dose of feng shui

A good example of what I'm talking about when I say dropping or putting ego in it's place. Do you desire abilities beyond the norm? Abilities like throwing chi, creating fire, reading karma and mind, etc? Of course you do, nothing wrong with that either, however, do you want those abilities just to show off? I will agree with you when you say there is a difference between self-importance and ego although self-importance is still ego lol. If you want those abilities just so you know that you yourself are 'cool' then that's ego/self importance, which is on a different but same level as wanting to show off to your friends, etc. Showing off is a form of ego that isnt exactly healthy for you. It's fine to want and develop abilities, flaunting them for the sake of flaunting isnt exactly nice.

[林愛偉]

There was enough babble about ego, and abilities, now that the mind is all over the place, here is the path at hand.

 

 

As for setting up a 3 day lecture and cultivation series, the next step is to gather

a set of guidelines for those involved to work by.

 

Organization...

 

Then Find a place to host.

 

Then choose the teachers..now this one is big...

 

Because asking a teacher to come down, is basically offering his airfare, hotel and transportation and food.... offering, meaning giving. Next part of this is getting people interested in going.. haha

 

The idea is great, but these steps are important. When would the first meet take place...how much money is needed to spend on bringing teachers over to share their work...not to mention if they don't want to.

 

OR

 

Advertise!

 

Advertise a cultivation center which is an open house for highly respected, and well sought after teachers of cultivation. Then when they apply to come and teach, those involved research the teacher's history, and service to society in terms of lectures/teaching. People will not like it, but high standards is important in today's age.

 

Regardless of who thinks who is judging...

 

I will not personally allow a past rapist to come to my temple and teach about cultivation. Nor would I allow a child molester come to teach in a kindergarten.

 

Simply enough, if the teacher is indeed as they present themselves, then its a good deal. If they aren't, they don't come.

 

Peace,

Lin

 

P.S.- Song Yong Dao has not posted on this idea for a few days? I haven't seen him here. Has anyone bothered to contact him on how he would like his, this, idea to develop?

Edited October 6, 2008 by 林愛偉

[Stigweard]

Hiya Lin ... to keep the integrity of this project whole perhaps this post would be better in "A Gathering of Immortals" thread.

 

I really don't think we should cross the wires and miscommunicate that such a gathering is about testing abilities which this thread is about.

 

With respect I have reposted your comments below over into that thread. I hope that meets your approval.

 

Regards

 

Stig.

 

There was enough babble about ego, and abilities, now that the mind is all over the place, here is the path at hand.

As for setting up a 3 day lecture and cultivation series, the next step is to gather

a set of guidelines for those involved to work by.

 

Organization...

 

Then Find a place to host.

 

Then choose the teachers..now this one is big...

 

Because asking a teacher to come down, is basically offering his airfare, hotel and transportation and food.... offering, meaning giving. Next part of this is getting people interested in going.. haha

 

The idea is great, but these steps are important. When would the first meet take place...how much money is needed to spend on bringing teachers over to share their work...not to mention if they don't want to.

 

OR

 

Advertise!

 

Advertise a cultivation center which is an open house for highly respected, and well sought after teachers of cultivation. Then when they apply to come and teach, those involved research the teacher's history, and service to society in terms of lectures/teaching. People will not like it, but high standards is important in today's age.

 

Regardless of who thinks who is judging...

 

I will not personally allow a past rapist to come to my temple and teach about cultivation. Nor would I allow a child molester come to teach in a kindergarten.

 

Simply enough, if the teacher is indeed as they present themselves, then its a good deal. If they aren't, they don't come.

 

Peace,

Lin

 

P.S.- Song Yong Dao has not posted on this idea for a few days? I haven't seen him here. Has anyone bothered to contact him on how he would like his, this, idea to develop?

[Unconditioned]

A good example of what I'm talking about when I say dropping or putting ego in it's place. Do you desire abilities beyond the norm? Abilities like throwing chi, creating fire, reading karma and mind, etc? Of course you do, nothing wrong with that either, however, do you want those abilities just to show off? I will agree with you when you say there is a difference between self-importance and ego although self-importance is still ego lol. If you want those abilities just so you know that you yourself are 'cool' then that's ego/self importance, which is on a different but same level as wanting to show off to your friends, etc. Showing off is a form of ego that isnt exactly healthy for you. It's fine to want and develop abilities, flaunting them for the sake of flaunting isnt exactly nice.

 

What's the point of having these abilities? What is the real benefit? There are loftier goals in my opinion and better things to do with the short time we are manifest here as one of the most unique creatures in creation.

 

The philosophy is deeper than it appears and even more simple than it appears. It's just a matter of practice. It really is as simple as dropping the ego. To be practical, the easiest technique I've found to work (personally anyway) is non-judging.

 

Just stop judging. When you see a person try to stop yourself from thinking "good/bad, fat/skinny, beautiful/ugly" etc. Just see them as they are, as a person. Or see the garbage as just garbage - not good or bad, if it smells foul let it be foul but don't add the judgement.

 

Try it for a week, you'll notice some interesting changes. Abilities are a potential side-effect of cultivating wisdom, but there is a bigger goal.

 

With love and respect,

-Nate

[h.uriahr]

What's the point of having these abilities? What is the real benefit? There are loftier goals in my opinion and better things to do with the short time we are manifest here as one of the most unique creatures in creation.

 

The philosophy is deeper than it appears and even more simple than it appears. It's just a matter of practice. It really is as simple as dropping the ego. To be practical, the easiest technique I've found to work (personally anyway) is non-judging.

 

Just stop judging. When you see a person try to stop yourself from thinking "good/bad, fat/skinny, beautiful/ugly" etc. Just see them as they are, as a person. Or see the garbage as just garbage - not good or bad, if it smells foul let it be foul but don't add the judgement.

 

Try it for a week, you'll notice some interesting changes. Abilities are a potential side-effect of cultivating wisdom, but there is a bigger goal.

 

With love and respect,

-Nate

Well for starters how about this, you hunt down a master with such incredible abilities and then ask "Master, what's the point of having these abilities"? All opinions so far are from people without any ability except maybe healing.

[Unconditioned]

Well for starters how about this, you hunt down a master with such incredible abilities and then ask "Master, what's the point of having these abilities"? All opinions so far are from people without any ability except maybe healing.

 

Why ask someone else when you can ask the question to yourself?

 

The point isn't about the ability or not. I believe there are many people who have mastered arts and have great abilities. It's about the real question: why? what is the purpose? You don't need to be a master of something to understand what the potential purpose is for it.

 

I don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand the reason for having a space program. Please don't add context to my words - I'm not saying abilities are wrong or bad or anything like that. I am really trying to understand the reason for chasing them as I haven't found and ultimate reason for going after them.

 

Our bodies will die, and so will it's abilities. Our source is permanent, which is why I choose to pursue the nature of the Tao rather than it's manifestations.

[h.uriahr]

Why ask someone else when you can ask the question to yourself?

 

The point isn't about the ability or not. I believe there are many people who have mastered arts and have great abilities. It's about the real question: why? what is the purpose? You don't need to be a master of something to understand what the potential purpose is for it.

 

I don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand the reason for having a space program. Please don't add context to my words - I'm not saying abilities are wrong or bad or anything like that. I am really trying to understand the reason for chasing them as I haven't found and ultimate reason for going after them.

 

Our bodies will die, and so will it's abilities. Our source is permanent, which is why I choose to pursue the nature of the Tao rather than it's manifestations.

Do you really understand the reason for having a space program or do you understand the reason that people give you for having a space program? What is the point of being able to meditate for hours, days on end? What's the point of being able to project chi? What's the point of starting a fire without use of traditional things? Do you really understand what the purpose of starting a fire with just chi is? Control of chi maybe? I'm only asking because people arent giving any credit to any abilities and write them off as parlor tricks when in reality, these abilities come with mastery, obtaining and elevating to new levels. Someone who can project chi has obviously advance further than someone who cant. A good point however is that studying a science, so to speak, is different than religion or philosophy. You can study and develop understanding and what not by following the Tao but you may never develop any ability but understanding. If however you study a science then you can develop abilities. It's one thing to understand but another thing to know. I can understand where you are coming from but may never know.

[Unconditioned]

You can study and develop understanding and what not by following the Tao but you may never develop any ability but understanding. If however you study a science then you can develop abilities. It's one thing to understand but another thing to know. I can understand where you are coming from but may never know.

 

This will be my last post on abilities as I've given my personal view and I'll leave it alone.

 

Having the ability to do something is not the same as knowing something. Doing, knowing, and understanding are all very different things (as you pointed out). I would never recommend anyone sitting in isolation meditating. One may cultivate understanding but they'd also be missing out on the gift that has been given to us - a human existence.

 

So to me, it is most important to develop wisdom that will then drive your actions. To have the power to do something as your ultimate goal (I'm assuming that may be your view?) is limiting yourself to some degree.

 

To KNOW the source of Chi, the source of your Will, the source of Life, Love, Success, Nature, etc. and to seat your consciousness/awareness in that place with complete confidence of what it is and what you are, in my opinion, is the purpose of our existence as humans. We are in the unique situation to be aware of what the Tao really is.

 

I respect your effort towards abilities but disagree out of compassion, please try not to take this the wrong way. I think searching for abilities is truly a wasted effort unless it can lead to the ultimate understanding.

 

Understanding is not a thought, it is not knowledge, it is not an object at all. It is beyond the ability to think. It is completely inexpressible. Knowledge is the map, understanding is the territory itself.

 

Again, I do not wish to argue opinions. I like red you like blue so be it I just hope that I can help show that there is something more than abilities, far greater, and it's expression is more powerful than any ability because it is the source of all abilities, of all things.

 

Ok I've said my piece.

 

With love and respect,

-Nate

[h.uriahr]

This will be my last post on abilities as I've given my personal view and I'll leave it alone.

 

Having the ability to do something is not the same as knowing something. Doing, knowing, and understanding are all very different things (as you pointed out). I would never recommend anyone sitting in isolation meditating. One may cultivate understanding but they'd also be missing out on the gift that has been given to us - a human existence.

 

So to me, it is most important to develop wisdom that will then drive your actions. To have the power to do something as your ultimate goal (I'm assuming that may be your view?) is limiting yourself to some degree.

 

To KNOW the source of Chi, the source of your Will, the source of Life, Love, Success, Nature, etc. and to seat your consciousness/awareness in that place with complete confidence of what it is and what you are, in my opinion, is the purpose of our existence as humans. We are in the unique situation to be aware of what the Tao really is.

 

I respect your effort towards abilities but disagree out of compassion, please try not to take this the wrong way. I think searching for abilities is truly a wasted effort unless it can lead to the ultimate understanding.

 

Understanding is not a thought, it is not knowledge, it is not an object at all. It is beyond the ability to think. It is completely inexpressible. Knowledge is the map, understanding is the territory itself.

 

Again, I do not wish to argue opinions. I like red you like blue so be it I just hope that I can help show that there is something more than abilities, far greater, and it's expression is more powerful than any ability because it is the source of all abilities, of all things.

 

Ok I've said my piece.

 

With love and respect,

-Nate

You can look at something behind a glass case all day long but isnt it better to hold it and study it without the glass? The same thing applies to Tao and chi. You can read books and understand the way it works but isnt it better to feel it? Experience it first hand? I remember the very first time I experienced a transmission from a master and that completely changed what I thought I had known. When you can experience and feel the force behind the Tao then that is a profound experience. These abilities are just a magnification of that experience. I'm all for personal enlightenment, never said I was against it, however I am pro abilities aswell. You can study one without the other and while that's ok I will say that both should go hand in hand.

[Stigweard]

 

Developing 'abilities' is perhaps one of the most contentious topics surrounding Taoist cultivation and is always gauranteed to generate lively conversation Truth be told there are a significant percentage of people who inquire about Tao because of the allure of such abilities.

 

Just as you have said Nate, abilities may not be a true indication of spiritual attainmnent. There are plenty of examples of people demonstrating such abilities who are still at the starting line of virtuous fulfillment.

 

But, as you have indicated MPWay, many traditional teachings tell us that certain abilities will naturally manifest at certain levels of attainment. In fact I have read that some Taoists actually use the abilities of Sun Wukong (aka Monkey Magic) from the text, 西遊記, "Journey to the West", as benchmarks for spiritual attainment.

 

So the jury continues it's debate. On one hand we have those that say that all abilities are fantasy and simply do not exist. We have the crew who say that they are a distraction from true spiritual attainment, and we have the folks who say that abilities are guideposts on the climb up the spiritual mountain. And of course we have those that are only in it so they can shoot Qi balls like Goku.

 

This is why, in my opinion, it deserves its due practical, scientific inquiry. Not to try and prove or disprove or get obsessed over but to simply be fully aware.