Ginseng. American or Asian?

[Bum Grasshopper]

I always thought Chinese red was the best, followed by Korean, then American. Siberian is not really ginseng at all. Now I find that American is prized in the orient for it's yin nature.

 

Chinese red has the best flavor in my opinion.

 

Any thoughts?

[Taoist81]

It depends on what you are using it for. Ren Shen (chinese) is a powerful Qi tonifying herb. Xi Yang Shen (american) is a stronger Yin tonifier. Both tonify Qi, both benefit fluids but each has it's strength.

[Franklin]

like Taoist81 said

 

each type of ginseng / renshen

has a different property

 

the american ginseng- xi yan shen

is cooler then its asian counterparts

there is a theory that it might be more appropriate for most modern people

as modern people tend to have excess yang and slightly deficient yin

as a product of living in our modern society and eating modern diet

 

if i remember the siberian or the korean red ginseng is the most hot

 

 

another thing to bring up is that tonification may not be appropriate for most people

yet many people seem preoccupied with the concept that they need to tonify

 

 

franklin

[Bum Grasshopper]

like Taoist81 said

 

each type of ginseng / renshen

has a different property

 

the american ginseng- xi yan shen

is cooler then its asian counterparts

there is a theory that it might be more appropriate for most modern people

as modern people tend to have excess yang and slightly deficient yin

as a product of living in our modern society and eating modern diet

 

if i remember the siberian or the korean red ginseng is the most hot

another thing to bring up is that tonification may not be appropriate for most people

yet many people seem preoccupied with the concept that they need to tonify

franklin

 

I would like to take it for general health and longevity.Since I am a male and practicing Kunlun, I am thinking American ginseng to balance more yin.

 

What do you mean by tonify, and what reasons would you not want to do it?

 

Thanks in advance

[Franklin]

this is all just my opinion- so take it as that and nothing more

 

in a nut shell

 

most modern people could be classified as excess not deficient

 

so most people would not need to tonify

 

here is an article explaining tonification according to TCM

http://www.shen-nong.com/eng/lifestyles/tcmrole_bufa.html

 

and here is some info on xi yan shen from the web:

http://tcm.health-info.org/Herbology.Mater...-properties.htm

 

 

 

-------------------------------

 

in TCM theory there are different classifications of herbs

two general categories are food grade herbs and medicinal herbs

 

we can effect the health and well being through the food that we eat rather than resorting to medicinal grade substances (which should be used as such- to rectify existing conditions then discontinued)

 

the digestion (earth element) is the root of the post heaven qi in the body

which means we get the vital stuff we need to stay alive after we are born from the air we breathe and the food we eat.

 

simple tips for eating include:

not eating till completely full

eating at regular times each day

eating things that are in season and local

eating things that have not been processed

 

above these simple tips you can choose foods according to seasons and current health issues

based on the 5 flavors and the 4 temperatures of the food

this gets more complex as it ties in with the 5 elements

 

for further information about food and health i would recommend

http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Whole-Foods-...3344&sr=8-2

 

and for more information about TCM- i would recommend this book for the person just starting to look into it:

http://www.amazon.com/Web-That-Has-Weaver-...3344&sr=8-4

 

 

 

 

franklin

[Bum Grasshopper]

Thank you Franklin.

 

I have hereditary anemia, so I suspect I may be deficient in some area. Would it be O.K. to take both types as needed throughout the day/week/ seasons?

[Franklin]

if you do have a condition and want to treat it with herbs

you should seek a qualified herbalist in your area

if they practice TCM- they will give you a consultation

and determine the pattern- as things in TCM are rarely as simple

as A or B- but instead the body is a whole series of relationships

and they should give an appropriate herbal formula based on the pattern differentiation

 

and then go back for followups to monitor your status

because as you get better or things change the formula will have to be adjusted or changed accordingly

 

a fairly good low cost option if you have a TCM school in your area

is to visit the school clinic

you will be treated by interns but it will be supervised by experienced practitioners

 

 

also TCM very rarely gives single herb formulas (medicinal grade herbs)

 

for food grade herbs- they of course can be eaten singly as they are considered food

examples-

a hand full of walnuts to help tonify the kidneys

or a hand full of goji berries to tonify the blood

etc...

 

 

franklin

Edited October 3, 2008 by Franklin

[Bum Grasshopper]

Any good suppliers on line?

[Franklin]

you should be able to get herbs from your local china town if one is nearby

 

or you could try:

http://www.ancientway.com/catalog/

 

or just search online for a herb supplier

 

 

 

good companies are plum flower brand and mayway

(but i don't think they sell to individuals)

 

you can go to mayway's website and see if anyone in your area is carrying herbs from them

http://www.mayway.com/store/general-index.jsp

 

 

 

or you could search for a TCM practitioner in your area

http://www.acufinder.com/

 

 

hope that helps

 

franklin

[Taoist81]

You really shouldn't start an herbal regimen without consulting a TCM practictioner. We have had to tell patients many times to stop whatever herbs they thought they needed so the herbs they actually needed could be put to use.

[Franklin]

if you do have a condition and want to treat it with herbs

you should seek a qualified herbalist in your area

if they practice TCM- they will give you a consultation

and determine the pattern- as things in TCM are rarely as simple

as A or B- but instead the body is a whole series of relationships

and they should give an appropriate herbal formula based on the pattern differentiation

 

and then go back for followups to monitor your status

because as you get better or things change the formula will have to be adjusted or changed accordingly

 

 

 

just to re-emphasize

 

as I agree with Taoist81

 

 

Franklin

[froggie]

Unless you are going to study it yourself also

I have started studying herbal medicines (mostly western so far, but i am adding eastern and egyptian and middle eastern and many other things now also) since 15 years ago and still like to learn today.

A very very good book can help a lot, but it can probably still take, if only a little, bit of time before you can start to see the bigger and deeper, but also broader and smaller picture(s)

 

If you do go to see a specialist, it never hurts to look into it yourself anyway too.

 

I feel i have not said enough on the subject, but maybe it can help a little bit.

 

Ginseng is a pretty good overall tonic anyway though ...... but yes, try. (and do what the other people say too probably. ...hmmm, yes, something like that.)

[Taoist81]

Unless you are going to study it yourself also

I have started studying herbal medicines (mostly western so far, but i am adding eastern and egyptian and middle eastern and many other things now also) since 15 years ago and still like to learn today.

A very very good book can help a lot, but it can probably still take, if only a little, bit of time before you can start to see the bigger and deeper, but also broader and smaller picture(s)

 

If you do go to see a specialist, it never hurts to look into it yourself anyway too.

 

I feel i have not said enough on the subject, but maybe it can help a little bit.

 

Ginseng is a pretty good overall tonic anyway though ...... but yes, try. (and do what the other people say too probably. ...hmmm, yes, something like that.)

 

Two things. First, it should be "unless you have been studying", you may not know how annoying it is to have "observation students" try to correct your point location or diagnosis because they have taken the "intro" courses more recently and the "actual" diagnosis doesn't match since there are much deeper layers.

 

Second, many people who seek treatment would need to avoid Gensing (Ren Shen) because it is too hot. Western herbs are "applied" in a very different way than eastern.

[VCraigP]

like Taoist81 said

 

each type of ginseng / renshen

has a different property

 

the american ginseng- xi yan shen

is cooler then its asian counterparts

there is a theory that it might be more appropriate for most modern people

 

 

if i remember the siberian or the korean red ginseng is the most hot

 

franklin

 

I won't go into the whole subject about whether to follow east or west or whether to self medicate or only seek professional advice.

What I do want to comment on is Siberian "Ginseng". This is one my favorite supplements.

 

It is NOT a true Ginseng. It IS a true ADAPTOGEN. Properly called by it's botanical name Eleutherococcus senticosus, or Eleuthero for short. Old name in Chinese is Ciewujia (sorry, that's my closest approximation).

 

This is a Tonic herb - not to be confused with the more specific term Tonifying from Chinese medicine.

 

Bum Grasshopper said "I would like to take it for general health and longevity"

 

IN my opinion Siberian Ginseng would be the most appropriate for regular use for general health.

 

Adaptogen is a term first used in Russian research on Eleuthero. An Adaptogen helps the body deal with a variety of conditions. For example siberian ginseng has been shown to help reduce high blood pressure as well as to raise low blood pressure. It helps to deal with heat as well as cold, meaning in the environment, not internal conditions. In the past Eleuthero has been a major component of the training regimen for Olympic athletes as well as cosmonauts. there is a lot of information out there on it's benefits if you do a little research.

 

One caveat.

I recommend buying ONLY pure eleuthero powder in capsule or tablet form or simple liquid tincture extract. The effort to standardize the active constituents of herbs has been an utter failure with Eleuthero. The so called "standardized" extracts available in the market place are 99% garbage in my experience. Only the Germans and the Russians had successfully made a standardized extract which retained the quality and performance enhancing characteristics of the pure herb but those products aren't really available to the general public. 99.9% of what is available is of Chinese manufacture and it is hardly effective at all. I have eaten large quantities of the straight extract powder and felt almost nothing compared to taking just straight herb powder. I know about this herb because I have dealt with the manufacturers and had personal contact with someone connected to the original russian research on the herb. I have seen and tasted/tried the crap from many chinese manufacturers and have seen and tried the good stuff from Russia.

 

IN summary, if you wanted to add an herb to your diet for general health I don't think you can go wrong with this one. In most cases I think even your TCM doctor would find no negative or unbalancing effect from the use of this one. Real Ginseng is great too, but used regularly it will definitely not be balancing.

 

Craig

[Bum Grasshopper]

Thank you Craig.

 

Siberian is defiantly A LOT cheaper!

 

How about the whole dried root? Can they be chewed, or steeped in tea like other ginsengs?

Edited October 4, 2008 by Bum Grasshopper

[VCraigP]

Thank you Craig.

 

How about the whole dried root? Can they be chewed, or steeped in tea like other ginsengs?

 

 

Do you have access to the whole dried root? I have never acquired it in this way. Take the root powder in it's simplest form if possible. My attitude is why complicate matters. The powder works well.

 

Craig

[Bum Grasshopper]

Do you have access to the whole dried root? I have never acquired it in this way. Take the root powder in it's simplest form if possible. My attitude is why complicate matters. The powder works well.

 

Craig

 

Ginseng root

 

Stuff looks way different than the other ginsengs. I will try it out and let you know.

[VCraigP]

Ginseng root

 

Stuff looks way different than the other ginsengs. I will try it out and let you know.

 

good luck.

 

Hopefully they turn over stock quickly. The main problem with cut bulk herbs is one of freshness.

If it has a nice herby/earthy smell then chances are good it will be good quality. I would still recommend getting some nice organic vodka and making your own tincture from the bulk. I don't thnk a hot water decoction will be nearly as effective. Just chewing on the roots might work, but seems a bit tedious. But hey, for this price you can afford to experiment.

 

Craig

 

Here is the brand I first used around 20 years ago. I always thought this was the most simple and effective form:

 

http://www.sunchlorellausa.com/products/sg-1.htm

Edited October 6, 2008 by VCraigP

[Bum Grasshopper]

Well, a whole pound arrived yesterday. It looks and smells a lot like catnip. Tried to chew some, but it was like chewing sawdust.

 

Picked up a bottle of 151 rum to make a tincture. I guess just steep it for about a week?

 

BTW, the rum cost more than the ginseng

[joeblast]

Any of you guys ever tried Devils Club or have any medicinal info on it? That stuff is alllll over the place up in Juneau AK area, heard the indians use it....its a cousin of ginseng...

[White Wolf]

Hi,

 

I'm thinking of trying out Ginseng Complex Capsules which contains American, Korean, Red Chinese and Siberian Ginseng.

 

I'm new to Ginseng and I was wondering if anyone can point me to the right type for me and how much to take? I've attached the label.

 

Thanks

007640HB.pdf

[zerostao]

idk, i have had asians tell me that the white is better than the red.

i wont enter into that debate. however i do know that wild is exponentially better

than farm raised. and i happen to be sitting on quite a good bit of wild at the moment

 

life is good in da' woods.

i had another file to share but it said "error file was too big to load"

Edited August 21, 2011 by zerostao

[Harmonious Emptiness]

does anyone have suggestions for which other herbs are good to take with ginseng since "ginseng should not be taken by itself"?

[zerostao]

i am also a fan of the eluthero. and also a big fan of notoginseng.

i have to import those and gladly do so.

 

last night i was messaged by a well known public TCM personality that i have long respected.

anyways he was saying that a good level korean ginseng is superior to what i have

and offered a trade of some of his korean for some of my kentucky.

its all cool and sure i love trade/trade. but i know and i reckon he does too ,

that when dealing with the wild all roots are not equal. some have strong magic.

 

cherokee medicine men(priests) have a long history of gathering and use of ginseng.

for them the gathering and the use is sacred. depending on the root and its quality

it can be called either yunwi usdi(litle man) or yunwi usdiga adawehiyu

(little man , most powerful magician) it is spoken of as a person and it is in much cherokee folklore.

it is said it can be invisible to those who should not gather it.

 

"it shouldnt be taken by itself" ?? i dont know about that.

i reckon one could always soak some primo root in the bottom of a maker's mark bottle.

[dawei]

Well, a whole pound arrived yesterday. It looks and smells a lot like catnip. Tried to chew some, but it was like chewing sawdust.

 

Picked up a bottle of 151 rum to make a tincture. I guess just steep it for about a week?

 

BTW, the rum cost more than the ginseng

Sorry... I can't quite follow what it is you want. You talked of Ginseng and then followed someone who talked of a Siberian , which is NOT ginseng; even they advised how to get it, you did not get it as their recommendation... first you want to chew it and now you want to seep it in 151 Rum.

 

Would it not be easier to just buy some various forms and try them and see what your body wants? In the end, you bought the very thing you did not ask about. Maybe your destiny will find this is what you needed.

 

A few notes:

1. IMO... Korean (and I mean good stuff) is better and stronger than chinese ginseng. I have pure chinese gingseng grown from a country side but the korean stuff (ie: good stuff) is verified by others I sent it to as more powerful...

 

2. American gingseng is a YIN effect but you need to know if you truly need it. You can feel truly energized but can get shakes from it if it is not really what you need.

 

3. Seeping ginseng in alcohol is a long continued history of practice. I am not sure how western Jiu measures up against that used in china. I have never tested the western stuff against chinese strong stuff; the latter I know very well. Mix Gou Qi Zi with it as a common balance to the seeping brew.