Living, Teaching, Learning in Asia

[GrandTrinity]

I am now a registered 500 hour yoga teacher through the Agama Yoga School in Thailand. I am also certified to teach Tai Chi and Qi Gong. I am considering teaching somewhere in Asia, like Taiwan or Japan (nice money there...nice culture too). However, I am also interested in teaching english and of course evolving my own studies... any tips on any of this? Much appreciated.

 

Good to see Taobums is still thriving, its been a while for me.

 

Cheers from Thailand,

Jake

[joeblast]

Glad you're doing well Jake! Lin might have some input for ya on that one, he taught english over in china.

Let me know when you're back in the states, tea is on me!

[Cameron]

I am planning on moving to South Korea to teach in about a month. I contacted Lin about his teaching position. You can make alot more teaching in South Korea. I also looked into Japan but the cost of living is higher there. South Korea is pretty centrally located so catching a flight to China or Japan on holidays might be an option.

 

Cam

[Walker]

Dave's ESL Cafe seems to be the general go-to point for English teaching positions worldwide. My cousin used it for Japan and Korea and I met some teachers in China who got their jobs through it. Angelina's ESL Cafe is another option. There're a lot of people writing about teaching in various countries online, and it seems like each country has a forum full of newbies and wisened old ex-pat school marms alike, all happy to answer your questions. Google will be your ally here.

 

A consideration is becoming certified as a Teacher of English as a Foreign Language/Teacher of English to Speakers of Other Languages. I don't know about Lin or other people here who have taught overseas, but I was not certified... Got my job through a bit of personal connections. Even so, I considered teaching again this semester and I ended up with some reasonable job offers in Beijing, uncertified. One I came very close to taking--I'll get to that later. If you choose to go the route of certification (which I have seen advised for those who are considering teaching English for a long time), that can cost around $2500 US in the States and around $1500 in intensives offered in Thailand, China, and presumably elsewhere. Personally, I can't say how much this would help your search or your actual work. In my teaching situation earlier this year, seemingly not much, as the two Peace Corps volunteers teaching the same classes as me were substantially trained for teaching and did little differently than I did. It was, often, as they loved to say, "a complete shitshow." Some schools have a super rigid curriculum, some throw you in the deep and and tell you to create history classes from scratch with no resources (my experience), and presumably others have a framework where your efforts in TESOL/TEFL classes will bear many fruit.

 

Most schools for TEFL/TESOL certification advertise that they will help you find jobs. I don't know how good their contacts are but many have a money-back guarantee, stating that they will refund your tuition if you don't get a job offer within six months. But failing to get an offer will NEVER happen, as you can get job offers after a couple of hours of sending out CVs on the internet, no joke, if you apply at the right time and place. That's even if you're uncertified like me. Whether that means your offer comes from a reputable school in a good location is another story. There are a lot of factory-esque schools in China that will work you to the bone, pull the rug out from under you if they're not happy with your performance, and apparently change the contract at whim if they like. Even so, I would guess that's a small minority of schools. Not something to be paranoid about, but something to be aware of. Overall, my experience was pretty good ('cept they wanted to boot me from my aparment to make way for a Party boss of some sort, had me move my things, and then told me to move back... you just gotta learn to laugh at that stuff if you choose to go to China) but I have seen some horror stories written about in internet forums. Protect yourself, no matter where you go, by asking to speak to former English teachers of the school, going through the contract with a fine-toothed comb so they know you mean business, making sure all of your benefits/vacation pay/etc are on paper, Googling the school and looking for word of it on forums at Dave's ESL Cafe and wherever else is relevant, and so on. You will really have to do your own due dilligence and remember that you'll likely be somewhat poor, very foreign, and living in a non-litigious society. Thus, if you get exploited you may have no recourse... You'll need to do this background work, probably for whatever country you choose, not because there are thaaaat many people trying to exploit you, but because there are a few bad apples.

 

Another consideration is hours. If you want to learn and try to establish yourself as a yoga teacher then make sure you aren't signing up for a school that might want you in the classroom for 25 hours/week. That, if you're like me, will sap you dry. Add prep time and whatever else to that and you could be looking at more than 40 hours. I taught 16 a week and had plenty of time to study Chinese, learning to write 800-odd characters and becoming able to travel alone in regions with essentially no English speakers within five months. I would say my studying was usually at least two hours a day, and up to five now and then, seven days a week... And I still had plenty of time left over to socialize, eat at a relaxed pace, and cultivate daily when I had the discipline. I partly went to that part of China to fulfill an old promise to travel with an old friend who came from a time in my life when my habits were very different... Had that not been the case I'd probably have been able to cultivate two hours or more a day and study just as much as I did. We shall see if that comes true if I my future allows me to return. Anyway, there's something to be said for working part-time! The time freedom is a big part of the reason I plan to go back to China. If you go to a country that holds traditions you're eager to learn from then the benefits of having time left over to integrate and learn the language will be innumberable. The downside... The money won't be great, but you should be able to find a 12-16 hour/week job that will put the food on the table and leave you a good wad of savings--by your host country's standards, for sure--at the end of your term. The other downside, depending where you are, expect to possibly have crowds gather if you ever do yoga in a park!

 

Some other China notes, even though you didn't list it as a possible destination... Make sure your company arranges your visa for you. Word is that's more expensive than ever now due to the Olympics (maybe no longer, though?) and I can't imagine what a hassle it'd be to arrange on your own. Also, try to find a place that arranges your living quarters, or if they don't, do research online and make sure they're giving you enough loot to cover rent. In China, from what I hear, you should usually be able to find employers who'll pay your medical insurance, and again, if not, they should include the requisite amount in your paycheck. Finally, even if you're uncertified, it is pretty par for the course to find round trip airfare for one year+ contracts and one-way airfair for one semester contracts. Final China note, which may apply elsewhere: English teachers are in DEMAND. There are shortages in that country numbering in the thousands. Never feel like you're the one who's looking for a rare and valuable commodity--it is the other way around and you should feel quite fine bargaining for what you feel you deserve. For the job I almost took in Beijing last month they practically rewrote the contract based on my objections to it, added money to the offer (not enough, though, for Beijing living for a guy with a bit of New Zealand debt to worry about), added to the housing stipend, and added health insurance. If you get a rude recruiter (one in Beijing, a Kiwi-Brit, actually, was quite demeaning in his response to my questions) who isn't upfront and won't make changes, RUN! You WILL find another job offer very quickly and you should be very nervous if that's how things are from the jump-off with a potential employer.

 

Anyway, as is my habit I've written an essay where some sentences might have sufficed, but I really hope this helps. I'm always enthusiastic when I hear of people getting overseas to live and work because it is not only a much better way to learn from places and cultures than just passing through, but because getting outside of my little Chicago bubble probably saved my life in a nearly-literal sense. Maybe your experience in Thailand has made you feel similarly.

 

Peace, good luck, feel free to get at me if you have questions, I'll try my best to help.

[wudangquan]

The primary qualifications for getting a teaching job in China are:

 

1. Being white (because only white people are Americans. There are no Chinese Americans, African Americans, etc.)

2. Having a pulse

 

Both qualifications are only the "ideal" situation, and the schools will work around them, accordingly.

 

Teaching at private institutes usually pays more money, but they are more demanding, more sneaky and diabolical (and when you say more sneaky in China - it carries some weight!), and will expect you to do the whitey the clown thing to a much greater extent.

 

I would reccommend working at a college. It's easy to get those jobs, and they're available everywhere you would want to live.

 

Check out anesl.com for some good opportunities, and as head hunters go - they're not the worst.

 

Payment for college teaching in most provinces not on the east coast is usually about 4k rmb a month.

 

Payment at most training centers is between 4k-8k, easily.

 

With the colleges you get at least a month of consecutive vacation at least twice a year which is very nice. At the training centers you don't, and work nights and weekends to facillitate your students schedules.

 

Colleges generally have much better guanxi with the PSB and can make things happen much easier.

 

Don't worry so much about your contract, because it's like a polite joke, at best. You'll sign 3 of them. A contract in Chinese, a contract in English, and the official contract used with the government for the purposes of tax evasion.

 

I've worked in China, South Korea, Thailand (and not teaching) in India for the past 10 years. If you have specific questions about this there's a good chance I've run into it before.

 

China is a cool place.

 

It's very cowboy still, and - I said something about this to Cameron the other day I think. . .

 

Chinese people generally are exceptionally friendly and giving if they know you. If you're a stranger on the street they are rude and selfish in ways that will shock you. Just learn to let go. Of everything. . . .

 

The thing is that Chinese people aren't intentionally trying to treat you badly and if you get to know them, even in a very informal way they are very very nice.

 

South Koreans on the other had are a different matter, and I refuse to even buy products like Samsung or LG that are branded out of that country.

 

It's not bad, I think.

 

Just be aware that the business culture is WAY different than in the West. Keep in mind that Mao Zedong, even now was still "70%" right in stealing everybody's land, killing them, having their sons beaten and re-educated until the renounced their families, etc. and understand that you will never win in any, any, any kind of disagreement with Chinese people in China, short of brute force.

 

Forget about your ideas of personal intergrity, learn to smile, say "maybe" and "I'll try" when you really mean "no", completely let go of your attachment to your personal space, etc. and you'll be fine.

 

Understand that more so than at home, people won't listen and will hear only what they want to hear - even if they completely understand the words you're saying.

 

Like:

 

"Allowing these children to refer to me in the first person as "laowai" rather than Teacher, Mr., Bill, Bob, Joe, or Lao Shi is completely disrespectful"

 

"Oh, you mean that you would like more chalk in the classroom?"

 

haha

 

Everything will be pretty cool for 6 months. After 6 years you understand the difference between the adventurist expat and the permanent expat, and that cross-cultural understanding and tolerance is basically a one way street of complicity to nonsense on your part.

 

That all being said - I plan to be here indefinitely and don't want to leave.

[de_paradise]

Yoga is popular in Taiwan, and wouldnt be hard for you to set up something on the fly. ESL Teaching pays more than in China, less than in Korea, but Taiwanese are so much nicer to live with. The visa situation in Taiwan is still stupid and inconvenient though (6o days) Look at tealit.com for job stuff. I lived there for too many years. If I went back to Asia, I would probably teach in China or Thailand, because in the old days, these countries didnt pay zip, but now its at least something. For China the visa is unofficially easy: go to Hong Kong and get a 6 month or 1 year multi and then just show up at some school, as WDQ says, doing border runs every 2 months.

[wudangquan]

Right.

 

Don't even sweat the visa stuff.

 

Even if you have to break a contract, don't worry about it. They'll tell you all this crazy stuff like you won't ever be allowed into China again, etc.

 

Just remember that laws aren't laws like you're used to. They're guidelines that are open for interpretation by the lowest level bureaucrats.

 

If you find a school you like, and that treats you well they can make anything they want happen in your favor, basically. Especially the private colleges and government universities.

 

Also as far as the current visa stuff goes - I believe it's relaxed now after the olympics.

 

I went out at the end of the school in the summer and ended up in Bangkok for almost 3 months because I couldn't get back in, and didn't want to teach again for another year or two so it was very difficult to get the business visa. Forced me to blow almost 4k of my pitiful life's savings, too when everything was said and done.

 

Create a new mantra. Mine is "what else could it mean?" . . . Trying to apply this in every single moment of my life has saved me from jail and deportation in countless places. haha

 

As far as yoga - there are places. I knew a yoga studio in Kunming when I lived there, and generally I think especially in mid to larger cities there will be a market for it. Especially amongst expats who want to stay healthy but find the chinese stuff inaccessible because of language barriers, et al.

 

Personally - If I had something I wanted to teach publically and was confident of my ability to teach and retain students . . . Japan wins, hands down. Probably a city like Osaka. Clean, everybody on bicycles instead of cars, great public transportation, good food, and I am about as sure as I could be that there's a much bigger market for Yoga there than in China or . . . The other part of China.

 

If I weren't interested in some specifically Chinese things I would love to live in Osaka or some place like that and I go for a breather whenever I can afford it.

 

 

Oh - and just out of curiosity . . .

 

How many teachers in Asia do we have here? Assuming people get time off, we probably all get time off at about the same points in the year.

 

Could be cool to pool resources and host a good teacher sometimes.

[GrandTrinity]

Thanks for your insights everyone. I will look into Osaka, that sounds great! Taiwan could work also.

 

It sounds like I might want to avoid China at this moment, perhaps earning enough cash elsewhere to enjoy China later.

 

WDQ, what is this about boycotting Korea products, explain?

 

De_paradise, wow you have a lot of experience in Asia. I would love to talk with you about that. How does the 60 Visa thing work in Taiwan? I would think that if one gets a part or full time job, this would enable one to get a special visa to not deal with that stuff? Its a freakin island, what do you do? sail or fly out ever sixty days if you must? hahaha

[wudangquan]

eh . . . It's just my own hangup. My experience in Korea and with Koreans has been typified by unpleasantness, driven by an intent to be unpleasant.

 

China is way different. It's unpleasantness without a second thought about it. I like China a ton more than Korea though, and Chinese people always think it's odd because "South Korea is a very clean (and rich) country".

 

About the visa with Taiwan thing - I don't and haven't lived there but my step mom is a Taiwanese national and she told me before that there are like ferry boats you can take into international waters and then come back on for a visa run.

 

Korea is best for money, in general though. If that's your only motivation, the middle east pays a TON if you have good credentials. Like legit, professional salaries and above.

 

If money were no bar, I would live in Osaka for sure.

 

If it were a choice about teaching - I would do a training center (about 8k rmb or so which is really not bad) in Kunming, or try to get even further out in an area that's undeveloped but has some foreign population or tourism like Dali, Lijiang (Lijiang is awesome!) or Di Qing/Shangrila.

 

Coincidentally, Dali also has a good Wudang priest living there who teaches at the city wall every day, and doesn't charge you a Brazillian dollars a month, and teaches GOOD stuff. There are only a couple of guys I've found around the country who are legit and teach the Wudang material, and know at least the lineage curriculum in its entirety and as a foreigner you are much better off with them than the WushuGuans around here, IMVHO. - not that the guys who teach at the open wushuguans that you can actually study at aren't good, but it's a business, there are to many ears on to many doors, etc.

 

Here's the website of the guy in Dali: http://www.dalimartialarts.com - and it's a beautiful and traditiional city, isn't nasty, has good air, friendly folks, temperate weather, a good university, and more ganja than you can shake a flamethrower at.

[Mal]

The primary qualifications for getting a teaching job in China are:

1. Being white (because only white people are Americans. There are no Chinese Americans, African Americans, etc.)

2. Having a pulse

Both qualifications are only the "ideal" situation, and the schools will work around them, accordingly.

 

Haha, Do you need to speak Mandarin? I'd liek to learn cantonise but I'm starting to think Mandarin might be more usefull (there are a LOT of Chinese so I wonder how jong english will hold on to its universal language status)

 

And when I leave my spell checker off, like now , I make typos as well as spelling mistakes. My hand writing is virtually illegable. And I don't speak proper. Is that going to be a hurdle?

 

i.e. Can I be a "bad" teacher to get a 2 month paid holiday while I'm on long service leave from my real job

[林愛偉]

Teaching in China is fairly easy in most cities, but because of the economic strength China has, they are

raising the standards. You can still find a job without certification or a degree...High Schools, Middle Schools, and English Training Centers.

 

Here's an email to my good friend in China, Shandong Jinan,:

 

Here's two of them actually. Which ever one works. He worked in the U.S. for

many many years at the Counsel General for China Embassy (my english is bad..haha)

He speaks English fluently, and takes care to not get the teachers a bad job. Not easy in some places, but he does a damn good job...haha

 

His name is Jonathan. Tell him Lin Ai Wei sent you. He will be happy to hear that.

 

 

[email protected]

[email protected]

 

 

Peace,

Lin