Beware the HORRIFYING DANGERS!

[h.uriahr]

So I keep hearing about the so called dangers of doing these practices and while I have practice qigong I dont anymore and have for a few years been practicing internal only, ie neigung. I just started this topic to get view from different people as to the horrible dangers involved with these methods, seeing as how old people start doing this on cruises I thought "Wow, this can be damn deadly". It makes sense too. Old people who are out of shape, in shape and just plain old, start doing these deadly cultivating arts and are fine so I ask, how dangerous can they be? I can speak personally on neigong and say that it's about as dangerous as a kitten. A sleeping kitten.

[Unconditioned]

I think some people may not be psychologically stable or meditation practice could bring up emotions and events that are very difficult to deal with (e.g., child abuse, violent past, etc.).

 

It depends on each person's individual situation.

[Aetherous]

Yes internal arts can be dangerous to a person's health, as well as mental or emotional state. The qigong that old people do isn't powerful enough to cause any harm. They are mostly doing standing slow movements which are always a good thing to do for anyone. Neigong is where the problems can arise...the internal manipulation of the nervous system. Most systems have built in safety mechanisms, but some don't. And some people do their own made up practice. Some people like to push through and ignore warning signs.

 

Even with a good system, the path is still somewhat risky. Seemingly incurable and undiagnosable health problems can arise and stay with you, as a result of the increased energy flow and openness. So it's good to become knowledgeable on other people's bad experiences, as well as how they helped themselves.

 

For instance, someone who meditates a lot can throw their system out of balance, so going to a TCM physician can help them diagnose what's wrong and get the right treatment to restore balance. (true story)

 

Some people think if you push yourself with spiritual practices you'll reach this super healthy state, but try it out yourself and tell me how it works. Some people are lucky and their practice is just right for their condition...so they push the meditation and whatever else and attain a really healthy and perhaps enlightened state. Then take someone else who isn't just like them, do the same thing, and they will start to have health problems and maybe some emotional imbalances, an inability to sleep, lack of digestion....

 

So it's good that we have forums like this, where everyone can post their experiences. This will give you a good idea of the true results of different practices. www.aypsite.com/forum is a great resource. Much better than assuming what the risks are or aren't.

[Trunk]

Several linked posts (1, 2, 3) on this page re: iron shirt dangers.

 

Several linked posts from here re: "Healing Love" dangers.

 

Both of the above courtesy of alchemicaltaoism.com. People occasionally come through this cyber-community who have some variety dis-harmony promoted by incorrect practice. It's not all that uncommon.

 

There's also books, such as the classic Gopi Krishna's Kundalini: The Evolutionary Energy in Man. There's also the related website, Kundalini Survival and Support, with a discussion forum.

 

Another book, the Road to Heaven: Encounters with Chinese Hermits has a variety of interviews. One of the hermits was blind and the interviewer asked if he'd been born blind, "no, these practices are powerful. I made a mistake and my eyes went out like two candles".

 

Those are just a few examples. Doesn't mean that the field is "horrifying" - many of us are aware of dangers and still aspire, still practice enthusiastically, just a little more savvy about opportunities/risks.

 

Trunk

[Vajrasattva]

If you are not rooted physically, mentally, emotionally, & spiritually yes it can be VERY dangerous. I have seen and witnessed few end up in Psych ward.

[shontonga]

So I keep hearing about the so called dangers of doing these practices and while I have practice qigong I dont anymore and have for a few years been practicing internal only, ie neigung. I just started this topic to get view from different people as to the horrible dangers involved with these methods, seeing as how old people start doing this on cruises I thought "Wow, this can be damn deadly". It makes sense too. Old people who are out of shape, in shape and just plain old, start doing these deadly cultivating arts and are fine so I ask, how dangerous can they be? I can speak personally on neigong and say that it's about as dangerous as a kitten. A sleeping kitten.

 

 

LOL

it's about as dangerous as a kitten. A sleeping kitten.

... shoved up ones nose sideways!

Anything done without (at times with) awareness can be "dangerous"

Energy stuff is no different...think of electricity

have a child go play with an outlet.

Hopefully there is an "adult" to steer them away from such potentially "dangerous" behavior?

 

If one is playing with thing one doesn't understand

it is better to have a "teacher" or at least a good friend one can bounce things off of.

 

Here's some M80's!

Go play kids!

Have fun!

 

Shon

 

Don't forget the matches!

 

 

 

 

wish i could give you a window for you to see some of the shit i see folks messing with daily and the effects these things can have. Lots are long term. Some quick fixes. Not many around willing to speak of the other side of balance,lol.It sure doesn't sell yoga mats! or Chakra pendants! or workshops with your favorite master on an old persons cruise!

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

Accepted/acknowledged "Facts" aren't always truth.

 

 

Stay present

stay aware

Bliss yourself out to kingdom come but don't forget to keep your feet on the ground!

 

* This isn't directed at anyone individually

easy enough to research this stuff

Shoot just look up the effects of kundalini : )

Edited October 8, 2008 by shontonga

[h.uriahr]

Wow, I feel honored to be apart of a deadly, seriously deadly community of advanced internal arts. Old people practice a toned down qigong aye? I see. Hmm, how could I have missed it. I think the problem starts at people with Egos the size of the country they live in. That or I must be blessed by the great TAO, because I'm an asshole 99% of the time and practice neigong daily and am fine and progress with amazing results. Well so maybe I should write a book on proper neigong training then. I'd say that you must first become dependent upon alcohol and then experiment with other drugs and then go to jail several times and then start with qigong and progress to neigong. I started this topic as more of a joke. I'm not saying that there has never been a case where someone has tried any kind of cultivation and had severe negative effects but I'm saying the chances of that are about the chances of you hitting the lottery. I'm trying to not laugh at the thought of ol grandpa pulling out what hair he has while wrapped in a straight jacket in a room with padded walls because of his improper qigong training. I know very few things. I know that 2+2=4 I know that playing in traffic isnt healthy, nor is eating paint chips. I also know that I am now blessed. I must be destined to become a true, real deal immortal. I may start setting up seminars, any takers?

[Aetherous]

Taking it to PM.

Edited October 8, 2008 by Scotty

[.broken.]

Wow, I feel honored to be apart of a deadly, seriously deadly community of advanced internal arts. Old people practice a toned down qigong aye? I see. Hmm, how could I have missed it. I think the problem starts at people with Egos the size of the country they live in. That or I must be blessed by the great TAO, because I'm an asshole 99% of the time and practice neigong daily and am fine and progress with amazing results. Well so maybe I should write a book on proper neigong training then. I'd say that you must first become dependent upon alcohol and then experiment with other drugs and then go to jail several times and then start with qigong and progress to neigong. I started this topic as more of a joke. I'm not saying that there has never been a case where someone has tried any kind of cultivation and had severe negative effects but I'm saying the chances of that are about the chances of you hitting the lottery. I'm trying to not laugh at the thought of ol grandpa pulling out what hair he has while wrapped in a straight jacket in a room with padded walls because of his improper qigong training. I know very few things. I know that 2+2=4 I know that playing in traffic isnt healthy, nor is eating paint chips. I also know that I am now blessed. I must be destined to become a true, real deal immortal. I may start setting up seminars, any takers?

 

Yes, people can end up mentally/physically/spiritually unbalanced when doing meditative practices. I am one of them, and I know there are a handful of others on this board too. This doesn't in anyway mean that the effects are permanent and lead to death. It's not just one extreme or the other.

 

In your other thread you said that you've met one person you ended up ill due to the energetic exercises... out of how many? Being the pedant I am, I doubt the odds are anywhere near that of a lottery.

 

Also, I am inclined to agree with our beloved Scotty - no apology is/was necessary. You have views and opinions and you are welcome to share them with us.

 

Yours, with respect,

James

[h.uriahr]

Yes, people can end up mentally/physically/spiritually unbalanced when doing meditative practices. I am one of them, and I know there are a handful of others on this board too. This doesn't in anyway mean that the effects are permanent and lead to death. It's not just one extreme or the other.

 

In your other thread you said that you've met one person you ended up ill due to the energetic exercises... out of how many? Being the pedant I am, I doubt the odds are anywhere near that of a lottery.

 

Also, I am inclined to agree with our beloved Scotty - no apology is/was necessary. You have views and opinions and you are welcome to share them with us.

 

Yours, with respect,

James

I've known a number of practitioners and only one became ill and it was from thinking he was the baddest and made an ill thought out attempt to project chi into someone and it back fired. Not only did his own chi come back but the master gave a bit more. It was just to prove a point.

[h.uriahr]

Out of curiousity I'd like to know what it is specifically that's dangerous about qigong?

[Spectrum]

Don't be afraid. I got your horrifying danger right here in my pocket.

[h.uriahr]

Don't be afraid. I got your horrifying danger right here in my pocket.

If God wanted you to have pockets He wouldve made you with them!!

[MASTERforge]

If you are not rooted physically, mentally, emotionally, & spiritually yes it can be VERY dangerous. I have seen and witnessed few end up in Psych ward.

 

True.

 

I can speak of personal experience from my own practice it can worsen mental health. I would not teach internal arts to the mental health patients I work with as it would tip them over the edge.

 

I think it is quite easy to lose your mind with these practices unless you are grounded.

 

Just take a look on here and see how many people are claiming all sorts of mystical powers when they are not throwing killer chi balls!

[三江源]

you dont have to be mad to post here, but it helps.

[Spectrum]

If God wanted you to have pockets He wouldve made you with them!!

 

I think that calls 4 teaching more humans with god given pockets how to swim.

 

horrifying

teach em

to ring em

bring them in

without bringing

them down

lift within

Edited October 8, 2008 by Spectrum

[h.uriahr]

I think that calls 4 teaching more humans with god given pockets how to swim.

 

horrifying

teach em

to ring em

bring them in

without bringing

them down

lift within

Pockets with god given humans seem ignored.

[doc benway]

Qigong psychosis is a well recognised and not uncommon condition treated in the psychiatric circles.

I've also heard of some pretty serious physical illness related to unsupervised Kundalini work.

It does pay to take the stuff seriously.

[Oolong Rabbit]

Another book, the Road to Heaven: Encounters with Chinese Hermits has a variety of interviews. One of the hermits was blind and the interviewer asked if he'd been born blind, "no, these practices are powerful. I made a mistake and my eyes went out like two candles".

 

Those are just a few examples. Doesn't mean that the field is "horrifying" - many of us are aware of dangers and still aspire, still practice enthusiastically, just a little more savvy about opportunities/risks.

 

Trunk

 

 

Great book Trunk. That passage blew me away when I first read it.

[dragonfire]

I know that I experience mental imbalance or emotional imbalance with energy work. The more energy you

have the more it is going to throw you off. But I think with time, your body starts to get used to the extra voltage. I've stopped a few times because I had too much energy. I practice gradual energy work now.

 

I'm curious to know how other practitioners are coping with this problem. What techniques have you employed that are effective?

 

 

Great book Trunk. That passage blew me away when I first read it.

[h.uriahr]

I know that I experience mental imbalance or emotional imbalance with energy work. The more energy you

have the more it is going to throw you off. But I think with time, your body starts to get used to the extra voltage. I've stopped a few times because I had too much energy. I practice gradual energy work now.

 

I'm curious to know how other practitioners are coping with this problem. What techniques have you employed that are effective?

I respectfully disagree with the more energy you have the more it is going to throw you off.

[daoseeker]

I know that I experience mental imbalance or emotional imbalance with energy work. The more energy you

have the more it is going to throw you off. But I think with time, your body starts to get used to the extra voltage. I've stopped a few times because I had too much energy. I practice gradual energy work now.

 

I'm curious to know how other practitioners are coping with this problem. What techniques have you employed that are effective?

 

During many years of regular Zazen practice I saw several people mentally crashing down in a bust of tears or similiar - which could be a good sign from a certain Zen point of view....

But many - including me - also get severe headaches over years of practicing a meditation method like Zazen.

It's just about all the accumulated energy... When you don't know how to keep it in your dantian or how to lead it to there - it can cause many serious problems.

What helped was a line from the autobiograhpy of Great Zen master Hakuin who had the same problem. A Daoist (!) helped him by giving the advice to visualize a chunk of butter on his head's top melting down his face and body..... It really helped! (It's quite similiar to the Water method of Bruce Kumar Frantzis of "melting" blockages!)

But in other words: If you do Healing Dao or similiar training of Microcosmic Orbit, a Zen practioner would not have such problems, or at least he would feel what is wrong

I practiced the small heavenly circle by a method from a German physician, who studied Qigong in the 70s already. Her method was to start at the tongue and visualize Qi running down to Dantian first and collect and finish at Dantian. That works perfectly for all kind of raised Qi from certain meditation methods not involving energy work.

 

Let it flow!

[.broken.]

I know that I experience mental imbalance or emotional imbalance with energy work. The more energy you

have the more it is going to throw you off. But I think with time, your body starts to get used to the extra voltage. I've stopped a few times because I had too much energy. I practice gradual energy work now.

 

I'm curious to know how other practitioners are coping with this problem. What techniques have you employed that are effective?

 

Spinal Breathing Pranayama as taught by Yogani helps with this. I'm sure standing in wuji would help too.

 

Yours,

James

Edited October 9, 2008 by .broken.

[Aetherous]

Spinal breathing works well for most. It didn't work well for me.

[Trunk]

The more energy you

have the more it is going to throw you off.

I respectfully disagree with the more energy you have the more it is going to throw you off.

You're both right, imo, and the key is balance and harmonious integration.

 

Some people need more work initially in order to correct imbalances so that they can circulate, integrate, more energy harmoniously. Too much too soon and it's gonna cause trouble. Agreed that gradual work is one of the keys.

 

Other people have a structure and energetic system that can integrate, harmonize increased voltage closer to right-away. In any case, whether it's natural for you immediately, or whatever amount of work and discovery it takes, a more balanced system integrates more energy for benefit.