fate, free will destiny & karma

[mat black]

Fate, free will, destiny, karma.

Some of might be pre-determined, some of it may be within our capacity to alter through changing our ways?

 

I like this story.

 

 

In a time long past, there was an old monk who, through diligent practice, had attained a certain degree of spiritual penetration.

 

"He had a young novice who was about eight years old. One day the monk looked at the boy's face and saw there that he would die within the next few months. Saddened by this, he told the boy to take a long holiday and go and visit his parents. 'Take your time,' said the monk. 'Don't hurry back.' For he felt the boy should be with his family when he died. Three months later, to his astonishment, the monk saw the boy walking back up the mountain. When he arrived he looked intently at his face and saw that they boy would now live to a ripe old age. 'Tell me everything that happened while you were away,' said the monk. So the boy started to tell of his journey down from the mountain. He told of villages and towns he passed through, of rivers forded and mountains climbed. Then he told how one day he came upon a stream in flood. He noticed, as he tried to pick his way across the flowing stream, that a colony of ants had become trapped on a small island formed by the flooding stream. Moved by compassion for these poor creatures, he took a branch of a tree and laid it across one flow of the stream until it touched the little island. As the ants made their way across, the boy held the branch steady, until he was sure all the ants had escaped to dry land. Then he went on his way. 'So,' thought the old monk to himself, 'that is why the gods have lengthened his days.'

 

 

Compassionate acts can alter your fate. Conversely, acts of viciousness can adversely affect your fate."

 

This is from the book "Thus I have heard. Buddhist parables and stories"

http://www.ymba.org/parable/parabfr3.htm

Edited November 9, 2008 by mat black

[gossamer]

Dear Mat,

 

I LOVED your story!

 

And I know for a FACT that performing Compassionate acts lengthens one's life.

 

Thanks for your story.

 

Peace, gossamer

[gendao]

Fate, free will, destiny, karma.

It may be that life is like a dream.

 

In a dream, you feel as if you are freely reacting to the given circumstances.

 

Of course, your reactions and circumstances are actually both generated by your own mind (just different parts of it).

[mat black]

It may be that life is like a dream.

 

In a dream, you feel as if you are freely reacting to the given circumstances.

 

Of course, your reactions and circumstances are actually both generated by your own mind (just different parts of it).

 

Hence the need for meditation leading to a freedom from dreams

 

 

Gossamer, im very glad you liked it, maybe people can add other stories along this theme, whether of personal experience, or otherwise.

I think it would be a good way to inspire each other? (i'm tempted to add some personal stories soon maybe)

[hyok]

Fate, free will, destiny, karma.

 

Compassionate acts can alter your fate. Conversely, acts of viciousness can adversely affect your fate."

 

Lately I've been thinking about Karma as well as all the F'ed-up sheet that happens in the world(and has been for as long as we've existed). I wonder how the warlords of third world nations as well as rulers of wealthy G nations have gone so long and continue to pillage people, murder by the hundreds, thousands and millions, and turn a blind eye to it all. Where is their karma? Why don't their actions adversely affect their fates?

[doc benway]

The beauty of compassion is it's independence of reward.

This is the essence of the boy's act.

And yet the story tells us that his act is rewarded with long life.

I can't help but appreciate the irony.

[林愛偉]

The beauty of compassion is it's independence of reward.

This is the essence of the boy's act.

And yet the story tells us that his act is rewarded with long life.

I can't help but appreciate the irony.

 

 

The attached is called Liao Fan Four Lessons. It is a true story taken place a few hundred years ago.

It talks solely on the changing of destiny from an ordinary man's state. Very practical to utilize and quick on

getting results. It is recognized as a Sutra by Jing Kong Fashi for its truth on karma; causes and conditions.

 

Enjoy!

 

Lin

Liao.Fan_Yuan___Liao_Fans_Four_Lessons.pdf

Edited October 14, 2008 by 林愛偉

[Sloppy Zhang]

I've been doing a lot of thinking on karma and the like.

 

Not necessarily the same kind of stuff that was talked about in the OP story (which was a good story btw), but stuff in general, along with fate, free will, destiny, and all that good stuff....

 

Haven't really come to a conclusion, it's a lot to struggle with

[mat black]

Edited October 14, 2008 by mat black

[Oolong Rabbit]

Beautiful stuff. Thanks for sharing Matt!

 

And I used to think all you Aussies were like this guy....

 

sFmK9tD-Ckg

 

Definitely wouldn't want to tip that dude's tractor!!!

[mat black]

Beautiful stuff. Thanks for sharing Matt!

 

And I used to think all you Aussies were like this guy....

 

Definitely wouldn't want to tip that dude's tractor!!!

 

 

HAHAHAHA. I remember that ad

Oi !!!!!

 

Edited October 14, 2008 by mat black

[Gerard]

Lately I've been thinking about Karma as well as all the F'ed-up sheet that happens in the world(and has been for as long as we've existed). I wonder how the warlords of third world nations as well as rulers of wealthy G nations have gone so long and continue to pillage people, murder by the hundreds, thousands and millions, and turn a blind eye to it all. Where is their karma? Why don't their actions adversely affect their fates?

 

 

Unfortunately for those who think that karma isn't real, that it also operates in a non-linear way, which IMO is the worst karma. It means the one that takes you to a non-favourable rebirth. Immense suffering. Like these:

 

 

 

 

And I haven't mentioned hell, preta and hungry ghost realms.

Edited October 14, 2008 by durkhrod chogori

[林愛偉]

HAHAHAHA. I remember that ad

Oi !!!!!

 

 

 

hahahahhahahahaha

[.broken.]

Mat, you are truly blessed with gracious friends. Smile upon your own fortune, and like your friend said, move on

 

I wish I had something similar to share, but I have been very fortunate in this incarnation. I have messed up many relationships, hurt many people, abused positions of power and responsibility, lied, stolen, cheated, abused my body, killed animals/insects/plants, vandalised property of others...

 

You know what though? I have learnt from many of my errors.

 

Karma, it seems, favours those who correct their ways and are willing to pay for the wrongs that they have done.

 

The trick lies in realising your own errors and removing them.

 

Yours in humble servitude,

James

Edited October 14, 2008 by .broken.

[Oolong Rabbit]

HAHAHAHA. I remember that ad

Oi !!!!!

 

 

Yeah it's hard to believe they changed spokes model from that dude to a pink bunny:

 

qiFQsxGUQOI

 

There must have been tons of kids hiding their batteries... just waiting for that rowdy aussie to kick their toys over and shout OI at them!

 

I know I am veering totally off topic, but a little humor is good is good for the karma too.

 

Brgds Mate!

[mat black]

Yeah it's hard to believe they changed spokes model from that dude to a pink bunny:

you know the worrying thing Gerry? it didn't even occur to us that the pink bunny thing was strange, we didnt even blink an eye at it, but really what where they thinking???

 

but a little humor is good is good for the karma too.

do you know how hard i laughed when you posted that energizer ad? humour is fun, and you know how to be funnny mate

 

The trick lies in realising your own errors and removing them.

 

spot in James

 

another short one:

 

the other night i was eating dinner and this mosquitoe was buzzing around my face. unconciously and recklessly i wacked it really hard with my hand to get it out of the way. i could have killed it or something and i felt bad as soon as id done it, but then didn't think any more about it.

 

a little bit later i was sitting down meditating and just as i was becomming really quiet & deep, this mosqitoe came and bit me on the forehead.

I realised that i deserved it for having hit it earlier, and i also felt the mosquitoes' pain that i had inflicted on it.

 

truly, an act done to another is also an act done to ones' self.

 

Namo Amitabha Buddha

[mat black]

Two years ago there was a tiger snake that had taken up residence in a corner of our yard. Tiger snakes are one of the most dangerous in the world.

The risk to leave it there was too great and no one would even go outside anymore for fear of it possibly striking.

It remained in the same area of the garden for over a week, so a family member decided they would kill it after returning from a weekend away. But by doing this, they would be putting themself in real danger.

I really did not want it to be killed, but knowing that the family member was determined to do so, i faced a dilema. I really did not want the family member risking their life, so I decided to kill the snake while they were away. This was a very difficult decision.

 

Before carrying out the act, i apologised in advance to the snake, saying that another person was determined to kill it, and I didn't want them to face the risk involved on doing so. I apologised again and again, and eventually terminated the snakes' life.

Imediately afterwards, I cried and felt terrible.

 

That night I had a very vivid dream where my body was covered in snakes crawling all over me. I was ready to face to retribution that I was expecting the snake to deal out to me.

They were angry with me, yet somehow understood my reluctance in killing the tiger snake who was obviously a memeber of their family, and that I did it only so that my family member would not put themself in danger.

In some way, I honestly feel that snakes understood that though they lost a member of their family, I had risked my own saftey for the sake of a member of my family, and so they eventualy left me and the dream ended.

 

To this day, I still sometimes pray for that snake, dedicating merits to it, and I'm also glad that my family member did not face a dangerous situation.

 

We should always avoid killing.

 

May all beings have peace.

Edited November 9, 2008 by mat black

[seadog]

I understand that some of you may find what I'am about to say offensive.But do try to consider.

I don't like killing anything,but I hate being a hypocrite even more.

All of us eat but how many of us take real responsibility for what we eat and how we acquire it.

I have shot,killed,skinned and eaten numerous animals.

Killing a animal,gutting and skinning it is not a pleasent task.

But it is honest.

Growing a beautiful big cauliflower then cutting out the head and ripping out the roots, though not as trumatic as killing and skinning an animal still has sense of meloncoly attached to it.

But it is honest.

In my book what is dishonest is going to supermarket,buying food that has come from God only knows where by means of heavy polluting transportation.

There is no proper measure of the value of life.

 

By what means do we acquire Karma and how will it bear its fruit?

 

 

I think your story regarding the snake Matt was pertinent in this regard.Our intentions,our actions and our thoughts either demonstrate value and regard to life or they don't.

What did you do with the snake after you killed it?

This is a malaise in the modern world,largely we have been removed from the basic process of acquiring food for ourselves.

How can there be any value to life if you are not involved with death.

[mat black]

Thanks Seadog.

I used to fish, and have hunted when living in the bush. At the time, I was detatched from the reality of the suffering I was inflicting on sentient beings and of the profundity of the act of killing.

Now realising that I have inflicted suffering on sentient beings I can no longer catch fish etc.

 

When i harvest vegies from my garden, I imagine that there is minimal suffering for the plant based upon what assume is a low level of sentience on the part of the plant.

In the case of the snake, there was more sentience, and hence more suffering.

What did you do with the snake after you killed it?

I threw it into the bush behind the property. Kinda crude I know, but...............i didn't know what else to do at the time, hopefully nature re-cycled it's body.

 

There is no proper measure of the value of life.

I often wonder about this. For example, the other I was walking along, I didn't move my foot away in time, and I stepped on an ant. Some people might think, 'so what', but I bent down and saw this poor thing struggling to walk, I must have broken it's leg or something. It appeard to be really suffering. I recited the six syllable mantra asking for the ant to be OK.

Ants, humans, snakes............we all have the potential to feel pain and suffering, I'l try best as I can to avoid inflicting it.

 

By what means do we acquire Karma and how will it bear its fruit?

Very complex question, but a very good one. I think the possibilities are varied and are dependent upon many factors. I'll take a guess that much has to do with intent. Whether we intend to cause harm or whether it's accidental, and the degree to which we feel remorse for the harm we have inflicted.

 

The question 'how will karma bear it's fruit?' also reminds me of something Master Hsuan Hua said. It was along the lines of "ordinary peple fear the results [of karma], Bodhisattvas fear the causes".

I take that saying to mean that ordinarily we fear the retribution of what might happen to us for the offences we have done, whereas Bodhisattvas fear (avoid) doing the bad things in the first place, not because they are fearful of the retribution, but because they are aware that an act done to another is an act done to ones self.

 

Our intentions,our actions and our thoughts either demonstrate value and regard to life or they don't.

Agree. I think the more we meditate, the more sensitive and potentially compassionate we become. The boundaries of 'self' are less narowly defined as me and mine, and gradually broaden to encompass (eventually) everything/everyone.

Ramana Maharshi demostrated many compassionate acts towards animals for years. Also, there are stories of Shakyamuni Buddha performing many acts of kindness to animals in many of his past lives.

 

It seems to me that, the deeper we go, the more life itself in all it's various manifestations becomes more and more profound.

Edited November 9, 2008 by mat black

[seadog]

Well said Matt.

In the wonderful book.

The Tibetan book of living and dying

The author recounts the exprience of a man who had a near death event.

"It was a total reliving of every thought I had thought,every word I had ever spoken,and every deed I had done; plus the effect of every thought,word,and deed on everyone and anyone who had ever come within my enviroment or sphere on influence whether I knew them or not....; plus the effect of each thought word and deed on weather,plants,animals,soil,trees,water and air."

 

The implications of this criteria are indeed astounding.

[Anabhogya-Carya]

Dear Mat,

 

I LOVED your story!

 

And I know for a FACT that performing Compassionate acts lengthens one's life.

 

Thanks for your story.

 

Peace, gossamer

 

where did you find that 'FACT'? written in some ancient allegorical text?

[mat black]

[seadog]

[adam mizner]

karma is non linear. good post, the reality of samsara

metta

adam

 

Unfortunately for those who think that karma isn't real, that it also operates in a non-linear way, which IMO is the worst karma. It means the one that takes you to a non-favourable rebirth. Immense suffering. Like these:

 

And I haven't mentioned hell, preta and hungry ghost realms.

[goldisheavy]

'So,' thought the old monk to himself, 'that is why the gods have lengthened his days.'

 

 

Compassionate acts can alter your fate. Conversely, acts of viciousness can adversely affect your fate."

 

This is from the book "Thus I have heard. Buddhist parables and stories"

http://www.ymba.org/parable/parabfr3.htm

 

The assumption is that it is so wonderful to be here, so extending your stay here is a reward. This is a decidedly un-taoist attitude to say the least. In fact, Chuang Tzu (Zhuangzi) talks about this topic. I won't recount it. You can look it up yourself.

 

What would you say if you were in prison, and for all your good deeds your stay in prison was extended? You'd be outraged, wouldn't you? The truth is that there is no way to ascertain whether this place is a reward, punishment, or neither. So there is no way to conclude what the meaning of an extended stay could be. Maybe a short stay is a reward? It's quite possible.

 

People are afraid to die, and so they base this retarded attitude on their fear and not on love or any positive quality or virtue. If someone wanted to stay alive for a good reason, maybe the stay of the person should be extended as a reward. But if people stay here because they can't stand to die or to suffer, then there is no good reason to extend the life of such person, no matter how many ants they help. If someone helps someone else just because they are avoiding a blow from a big karmic stick, they are not helping anyone other than themselves. Such a person deserves to burn in hell for a long time, and indeed, that's where they already are.

 

Question, question all you hear. All these traditional stories are as ignorant and stupid as they are wise.

 

I think compassion is a good quality to cultivate, but that story is not a good story to inspire true compassion.

Edited November 13, 2008 by goldisheavy