Should Li Jiong be banned from Tao Bums

[mjjbecker]

explore, learn, think, do your own stuff, and figure out what is for you.

 

Yes!

 

But that requires effort...

 

 

 

I will say though, for whatever it's worth, that I personally find his brand of "Taoism" resonant with fear-based cult-speak and irrational fundamentalism of the lowest form. So I understand the concern. I just trust people here are smart enough to make their own choices. And I think Cameron said it best. He's doing us a favor by laying all his cards on the table for everyone. Imagine dedicating yourself for years to a teacher like this but that is all smiles up front. Only as the years pass, and when you are most receptive, does he slowly feed you the fire and brimstone apocalyptic vision. It's quite possible this is what happened to Li.

 

Best,

Sean

 

Very well put.

[Stigweard]

I'd like to make a distinction between banning and suspension if I may.

 

Suspension is when I kick someone off for anywhere between 7-30 days, typically, for losing their cool and being insulting. After their little Tao Bums fast they are free to come back.

 

Some choose to leave for good after this, so it may appear they've been permanently banned, but that's not normally the case. WYG, Patrick, Starjumper, Buddy ... none were banned, just suspended for a number of days.

 

Banning is (semi) permanent and super rare. I can only remember one person that's actually been banned from this forum. And that is only because he openly admitted he had no intention of discontinuing his rampage of personal insults. Was a shame because he is quite a colorful character. It's quite possible he is still here actually, with other names, which is fine as long as he is respectful.

 

I've never seen Li Jiong stoop to meaningless low blow insults in his posts here, which is really the standard by which people get suspended. So in all fairness he is not even really a candidate for suspension let alone banning at this point.

 

I will say though, for whatever it's worth, that I personally find his brand of "Taoism" resonant with fear-based cult-speak and irrational fundamentalism of the lowest form. So I understand the concern. I just trust people here are smart enough to make their own choices. And I think Cameron said it best. He's doing us a favor by laying all his cards on the table for everyone. Imagine dedicating yourself for years to a teacher like this but that is all smiles up front. Only as the years pass, and when you are most receptive, does he slowly feed you the fire and brimstone apocalyptic vision. It's quite possible this is what happened to Li.

 

Best,

Sean

 

A sound response Sean ... is there value in the idea of creating a seperate sub-forum where people can promote (within reason of course) their goods and chattels? What would be the implications of this?

[h.uriahr]

All his topics seem to come back to his product. I mean if it's cool to just sell whatever on this forum then I'm gonna start selling land on here. It's magic cultivated land too. 1000 bucks an acre. He sounds like a cheesey late night infomercial and it's hard not to be insulting but am I the only one whose actually read his posts? I'm all for keeping him on here but everyone seems to be praising him...?

[Pietro]

I'd like to make a distinction between banning and suspension if I may.

 

...

 

Banning is (semi) permanent and super rare. I can only remember one person that's actually been banned from this forum. And that is only because he openly admitted he had no intention of discontinuing his rampage of personal insults. Was a shame because he is quite a colorful character. It's quite possible he is still here actually, with other names, which is fine as long as he is respectful.

 

Good clarification.

 

I think our friend could not change his modus operandi because it was part of the color.

Somehow the more insulting he was, the more ludicrous his posts were.

 

But of course then he changed his name and came back as Cat, and so all is well.

Except sometimes the mask still falls off.

 

if anything..hahah ban me

 

 

Sorry, permission denied,

you cannot leave!

 

 

but, nice try.

Edited October 14, 2008 by Pietro

[Sloppy Zhang]

Yes!

 

But that requires effort...

 

I know, really

[Wayfarer64]

where's the beef?

 

I too try to promote my thinking -via a small tome of poetry here... Sean has even been kind enough to give me banner space as well- we each promote our ideas as we are able on this wonderful site- why not just express yr view directly as we usually do here?

 

I have taken exception to the way Mr. Denty has promolgated the DSV way of interposing his ideas here - as have several others... the thought of banning for other than really offensive speach OR hateful BS is just wrong!

 

what next?

[三江源]

If every twit who wants to sell us his unique secret methods turns up here the board will degenerate into a heap of dross.

 

I suppose we can tolerate a certain level of twitiness and call it free speech and congratulate ourselves on our tolerance.

 

It's all about How Much, I guess.

 

Li Jiong is currently the stand alone man in the plastic mac.

 

If there were 20 of them, well, I dunno how tolerant I'd feel.

 

Not very.

 

[宁]

If every twit who wants to sell us his unique secret methods turns up here the board will degenerate into a heap of dross.

 

I suppose we can tolerate a certain level of twitiness and call it free speech and congratulate ourselves on our tolerance.

 

It's all about How Much, I guess.

 

Li Jiong is currently the stand alone man in the plastic mac.

 

If there were 20 of them, well, I dunno how tolerant I'd feel.

 

Not very.

 

 

 

You quote my mind, dear. I vote likewise.

 

[wudangquan]

Maybe a special place for advertising is the best idea?

 

I thought about it for a minute, and I guess that banning the sale of material on a site like this wouldn't be very effective.

 

If I had something to sell, and had just a handful of people following me, I would send them all into the personal practice forums, and that would be just as effective, but a bit more insidious.

 

I suggest that people pay the board owner for advertisement. Then it's clear and simple probably.

 

Like there's a special section for advertising. You create a topic, and then you're directed to a paypal link and you pay to hawk your stuff.

 

There's adsense at the top of the site, and it costs money to maintainn the hosting, as well as time, etc. so unless lots of people are making donations, I think this would be a pretty fair way.

 

Compartmentalize the commercial stuff into it's own area, and request that they pay $10 or $20 or whatever for their post to go live.

 

For people who have stuff to sell, and have it in their signature, I would think that will be ok. For me, I will read what they write, and the more quality material they contribute, and the more likely I find them to really understand this or that, the more likely I would be to click through to their sales page or whatever.

 

I think that somebody who runs a big site like this deserves some help with the maintenence of it, and the costs associated with it, and asking people to pay to advertise takes the onus off the market and puts it on the marketers.

 

.02

 

j

[qirin]

IMO Banning people should not be a public affair, it turns into a witch hunt way to easily. It should never be done because you dislike someone or there philosophy. If someone has disregarded the insult policy repeatedly and seems unstable, they should be reported to Sean privately in a PM. Its his unhappy job and shouldn't be turned into gossipy conversation.

 

if Li Jiong has the right to be a twit, don't we have the right to talk about banning him? we can't actuallly do it, but we have the right to TALK about it...

[SiliconValley]

if Li Jiong has the right to be a twit, don't we have the right to talk about banning him?

 

 

I guess so...and while doing that, I do not see anyone getting abusive...so far. After all, we are talking about Freedom of Speech. Sean is always there to decide finally, and like always, he took the right stand this time as well. May be sending loads of love to Li Jiong will make him feel better and help him move over from constant dwelling in "disaster domain" and planning for or against it. Last time I spoke to thich nhat hanh, mindfulness was all about being in the present.

 

Edited October 14, 2008 by SiliconValley

[Sloppy Zhang]

Well, just throwing something else in that might be a general issue:

 

Everyone keeps on talking about free speech and how we should have it but... there are limits to free speech.

 

I have a right to publish a newspaper to say whatever I want, but if I say something that is slanderous then, well... that's not good.

 

I have free speech to say what I want about myself, but if I were to say that I was a police officer, and people treated me different because of that... well that's kind of illegal!

 

I technically have the free speech to say whatever I want about, say, some kind of contract, but if I get someone to sign that contract due to what I said to that person... hmm...

 

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure there are laws about some of that stuff (slander, fraud, impersonations, etc etc).

 

So, again, not saying anywhere HERE does that, but in general, if someone's speech has been proven to cause something that is harmful for another party, then some action needs to be taken. And I'm not very advanced, but there's some stuff that I know (improper kundalini work, for instance) can really mess a person up! Gotta watch out.

[Mal]

but am I the only one whose actually read his posts?

 

Possibly I've really only kept reading 30 day free trial, I got bored with the other topics. Traffic is high at the moment so I'm only reading a few threads here and there.

 

Don't really care how many people come here to sell stuff, or preach religion or talk rubbish (like me) as long as they don't spam across multiple threads its pretty easy just to not read that post if you are not interested.

 

Am I the only one who thinks the raincoat photo looks alright. I admire people who don't care how they look & I'm sure it was better than freezing in the rain

[Wayfarer64]

I may be mistaken... but are we asking about under-arm deodorant here? How can that possibly matter in this context? I have used old spice but never ban... so maybe I'm the wrong person to reply...

 

in any case he don't stink from where I sit...

 

lets just ban mythmaker for being a rabble-rouser!!!

[mYTHmAKER]

I may be mistaken... but are we asking about under-arm deodorant here? How can that possibly matter in this context? I have used old spice but never ban... so maybe I'm the wrong person to reply...

 

in any case he don't stink from where I sit...

 

lets just ban mythmaker for being a rabble-rouser!!!

 

Hey I just added some spice to the forum.

 

New Topic:

 

Should mYTHmAKER be banned from Tao Bums or at least suspended.

 

It would be a blessing - I would be able to get some work done

[Pietro]

Hey I just added some spice to the forum.

 

New Topic:

 

Should mYTHmAKER be banned from Tao Bums or at least suspended.

 

It would be a blessing - I would be able to get some work done

 

Maybe we should ask for a self suspend button.

Each of us can press it and define the number of days.

Also if this means not being able to read as well as to write.

 

A bit like the "take a break" button on google mail (you have to have the google lab installed to see it).

 

Maybe if we pool some resources we could get someone to write the patch to add it. Just think what an inprovement in anybody's life

[Li Jiong]

It seems my presentation pricked somebody here, or perhaps the truth I disclosed exposes some frauds naturally. Anyway, I think it is the time for me to leave here for at least a few months.

The world is full of conflict, full of pain now, take care, guys!

[thelerner]

Bye, you take care too.

 

Have you learned anything here? Or do you leave with the exact attitude you came with? ie. you offered salvation and we're too 3rd rate and foolish to comprehend?

 

 

 

Michael

[Gerard]

Yeah, i've been meaning to ban myself for a while now.

 

Soon......

 

 

 

I feel this thread should require the action of this man:

 

 

 

 

Ban the user who opened this thread.

 

 

 

 

Stop gossiping and focus on real issues.

[.broken.]

Take good care of yourself Li Jiong

 

I'll miss your honesty, integrity and compassion.

 

Wishing you all the best,

James

[mYTHmAKER]

I feel this thread should require the action of this man:

Ban the user who opened this thread.

 

 

I second the motion

 

Take good care of yourself Li Jiong

 

I'll miss your honesty, integrity and compassion.

 

Wishing you all the best,

James

 

 

[SiliconValley]

It seems my presentation pricked somebody here, or perhaps the truth I disclosed exposes some frauds naturally. Anyway, I think it is the time for me to leave here for at least a few months.

The world is full of conflict, full of pain now, take care, guys!

 

 

Oh my God! So not Tao!!!

[林愛偉]

Oh my God! So not Tao!!!

 

hehehe I almost coughed up my drink while reading that one!

[Vajrasattva]

Oh my God! So not Tao!!!

 

 

hahahaha

[Pietro]

While having Li Jiong leaving seems an easy solution, and maybe the best one, as he does not seem to be ready to be in such a company of mature practitioners. It does leave a bit of bitter after taste in the mouth. AT least in mine.

 

I feel, I wish he didn't took the easy way out from an obviously difficult positions, and had instead choose to remain, pay off his karmic debt, and join the community at large. I still would prefer he did so, it makes me feel the energy woud be smoother around the whole topic.

 

I would like to add that many of us had embarassed ourselves in the first contact with this community.

A bit like kids wetting themselves on the first day of school. The group energy here is very strong, and although it is a bit easier to handle it with the possibility to re-edit your own entries. There are very few people who did not went through this sort of initiation. I feel he had a lot to share, if not anything else, his single headed trust in the method he is following. I hope he be well wherever he goes, and comes back when really he has the roots and the humility to teach.

 

What was that chinese phrase:

the more the grain is full the more it bends it head.

 

or similar.