Starman returns

[Aetherous]

I've got a lot more ammunition now (in addition to the original feeling I had, which was that of being overwhelmed with bullshit) and I'm going to shoot all of it, hopefully in a constructive way.

 

I hope it's constructive, too. I can't imagine what could be constructive of "Max bashing" though.

[mYTHmAKER]

Taoist Path of the Sorcerer

It made my tai chi flowing much better, so much so that some tai chi masters and grand masters were impressed.

 

I like what you have to say. Do you have a video clip of you doing tai chi.

Would love to see it

[Cameron]

I didn't mean challenge him in front of people in the middle of his lecture. But if you feel it's your duty to "expose" Max the least you could do is take the little effort to meet the guy in person when he's in your city. Maybe see if your self proposed "psychic feelings" about things you got from the internet is accurate or not.

 

You already chose not to do this. You obviously have been at this Tao thing for a long time

and feel your system is the best. That's fine with me. Actually Freeform has written some of the best descriptions of the Kunlun practice I have ever heard on this thread. So if gems like this come from this type of discussion carry on!

 

Cam

Edited October 20, 2008 by Cameron

[Spirit Ape]

I think you better off going to visit Max and see or feel for yourself if he has any Qi!?

 

Ape

Edited October 21, 2008 by Spirit Ape

[Starjumper]

I hope it's constructive, too. I can't imagine what could be constructive of "Max bashing" though.

 

 

I like to think of it as Max attacks It can be constructive if we can keep it in an ethical, educational, debate form.

 

I think this will explain why Max attacks are unavoidable:

 

The Tower of the Spirit

 

The spirit has an impregnable tower

Which no danger can disturb

As long as the tower is guarded

By the invisible Protector

Who acts unconsciously, and whose actions

Go astray when they become deliberate

Reflective, and intentional.

 

The unconsciousness

And entire sincerity of Tao

Are disturbed by any effort

At self-conscious demonstration

All such demonstrations

Are lies.

 

When one displays himself

In this ambiguous way

The world outside storms in

And imprisons him.

 

He is no longer protected

By the sincerity of Tao.

 

Each new act

Is a new failure.

 

If his acts are done in public,

In broad daylight,

He will be punished by men.

If they are done in private

And in secret,

They will be punished

By spirits.

 

Let each one understand

The meaning of sincerity

And guard against display!

 

He will be at peace

With men and spirits

And will act rightly, unseen,

In his own solitude,

In the tower of the spirit.

 

-from The Way of Chuang Tzu by Thomas Merton

 

That also explains why there are hidden lineages in Taoism. I should have kept mine that way .. I think ... I don't know any more.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Starjumper]

Actually the spirit isn't like a tower, or shouldn't be. It should be like a wild horse running free across the plains.

[Stigweard]

Indeed ... it's a fool's quest to attempt discretion whilst standing in the middle of the highway.

 

I like to think of it as Max attacks It can be constructive if we can keep it in an ethical, educational, debate form.

 

I think this will explain why Max attacks are unavoidable:

 

The Tower of the Spirit

 

The spirit has an impregnable tower

Which no danger can disturb

As long as the tower is guarded

By the invisible Protector

Who acts unconsciously, and whose actions

Go astray when they become deliberate

Reflective, and intentional.

 

The unconsciousness

And entire sincerity of Tao

Are disturbed by any effort

At self-conscious demonstration

All such demonstrations

Are lies.

 

When one displays himself

In this ambiguous way

The world outside storms in

And imprisons him.

 

He is no longer protected

By the sincerity of Tao.

 

Each new act

Is a new failure.

 

If his acts are done in public,

In broad daylight,

He will be punished by men.

If they are done in private

And in secret,

They will be punished

By spirits.

 

Let each one understand

The meaning of sincerity

And guard against display!

 

He will be at peace

With men and spirits

And will act rightly, unseen,

In his own solitude,

In the tower of the spirit.

 

-from The Way of Chuang Tzu by Thomas Merton

 

That also explains why there are hidden lineages in Taoism. I should have kept mine that way .. I think ... I don't know any more.

[Aetherous]

I think that "Tower of the Spirit" passage is meant more for our own personal progress than judging someone.

 

But I am willing to accept that not everyone will like Max. Just like not everyone will like who I am. No one is universally appreciated.

 

There may be no decent reason for it, and it may be a misunderstanding on the parts of those that judge (we don't know what Max is thinking). It may be entirely based on feelings that they have about the person, which are filtered by their own view.

 

If you want to Max bash I won't try to stop you...because my efforts will be fruitless. Everyone does what they do. I've said what I had to say (that Max is very generous, and a good teacher of these practices) and also: he has shared with me something which makes my life amazing...how could I not truly appreciate him?

 

Just my view.

 

So, it's all good, whatever people want to think.

[ToL]

So, it's all good, whatever people want to think.

 

Scotty,

 

I think some people don't like Kunlun because it is so simple... so they look for an amazing bombastic super scientific practices, good luck with it(really).

And when reading about Max's history some people can be frightened, or just think it's stories...

I believe Max, and I love him very much. and you too Chris. That love doesn't come from stories about him, it comes from my practice.

 

I'm actually writing this for other Kunluners rather than trying to convey anyone...

Edited October 21, 2008 by ToL

[Cameron]

It is interesting though.

 

The idea that high levels of attainment, awakening, or whatever we are calling progess CANNOT be achieved with just two simple practices. Actually, Scott knows Max teaches more than those two(I am guessing Star is referring to Kunlun 1 and Red Phoenix)but it's true Max essentially says you only need the two.

 

That something is missing-which seems to be what Star is saying-that complexity and a wide diversity of techniques are required. The simplicity of just two practices somehow doesn't cut it.

 

There is something that needs to be investigated here I think. Freeform was touching on it. Not regarding Starjumpers's approach or Max's approach or who is the biggest Taoist badass-but universally what is it? What is it that we are trying to accomplish with these practices in the first place? Why would more than two practices be required if they do really "cover all the bases"?

 

I mean, it's no argument that Kunlun is powerful. Star can't argue that fact even though I think if my memory is correct he called it "wimpy qigong" in the past

 

 

You have scores of people here into Kunlun now that seem to be having really powerful experiences. Experiences that go beyond what a simple qigong routine does. So it's clear Kunlun is very real and very powerful. But is there any merit to what Star is saying that Kunlun is maybe just a small component of a larger system? And without that larger system with it's hundreds of techniques, postures, practices, forms etc your not getting the real deal?

 

Really, I would like to have an open mind about this and not argue. It's pointless for any of us who have done the practice and recieved the transmission to argue. We know what we have experienced and continue to experience. So I'll listen respectfully if there is really something to be said.

 

From what I have read so far it's like comparing apples to oranges. You can't compare things that are essentially different or have different goals. If one path defines there goal as power and another as awakening then your comparing apples to oranges, no?

 

At the very least we could clarify where we each are coming from.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Cameron

[Aetherous]

but universally what is it? What is it that we are trying to accomplish with these practices in the first place? Why would more than two practices be required if they do really "cover all the bases"?

 

We are purifying and opening the body so that the energy of source can flow in us, awakening us on all levels.

 

In my opinion more things can be very helpful but are not the main aspect of our practice.

 

It's like if someone is a marathon runner: the shoes, the shorts, the gel glucose packets, the fancy water bottle...all of those things are helpful to have, but they could run a marathon without all of that. Running is about running.

 

And Kunlun is about the combined effect of good K1/RP1 practice. Not the egyptian healing rods, gamma meditation cds, etc...although those things can make our "race to the finish" more comfortable and perhaps much faster.

[Starjumper]

I think you better off going to visit Max and see or feel for yourself if he has any Qi!?

 

Ape

 

 

Thanks, Ape. No need for that as I know he has plenty of chi power. The problem is how he is using it and what he is using it for. I know what he's doing with his 'transmisions' because I know others who can do similar things with energy, and I'm one of them. What he says he is doing and what he is really doing are two different things, it's another one of the lies, and it's very serious. I will NEVER allow him to touch me or to get anywhere near me with his energy. Nor will I exchange energy with someone who has been poisoned by his energy, unfortunately.

 

As far as complexity of spiritual practices is concerned. Some people think I came here to say my practice is superior to Kunlun. Well it is in some ways, but that wasn't the point. Zazen is a good spiritual practice and it basically only has one technique. Sitting and forgetting works, but it's not that fast and it has low results ratio. That kind of comparison is not what I had in mind but since it's come up I will speak to it for a bit. My practice, Tien Shan, is a full fledged spiritual practice and a powerful one. The reason for chi power cultivation is that it does encourage certain aspects of spiritual growth. It's not chi power versus spiritual, it's chi power aids spiritual. The path of the sorcerer is the fastest path and it has the highest rate of enlightenment among it's students. This is the true whether the path is Taoist, Hindu, or Tibetan.

 

I just want you all to know, those of you who got a first impression of Max that he is sinister, that your first impression was indeed correct. Don't forget what my path is. I've seen his soul.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Spirit Ape]

I think Spontaneous Adjustment Qi Kung is a very good self healing system before one becomes higher level in the practice one needs to do Level 1 like what Max learnt from his teacher. She says you only need 1 level and you can be very content i think before someone becomes spiritual or enlightened they must burn off their own health issues and emotion baggage as this is part of opening up the bodys (72,000 nadis / all channels)!

 

In any of the cultivation systems it all comes down to breathing combinations, most daoist arts use the Turtle breathing, reverse, natural and normal breathing, breath retention and much more etc. These are keys that lead one to higher levels this is without even bring in visualization, mudras, mantras, yoga, hand movements (qi gong), hard qi gong. So these 3 levels of Spontaneous Adjustment Qi Kung have 3 different ways to cultivate building upon each other in very easy exercises this is why it works and could be such a great lil add on to any art.

 

If you read many cultivation books you can easily see a systemize way of development - normal breathing, turtle, reverse, compression , retention, fire breathing, visualization, 5 heart breathing, body and bone breathing. You can look through all Mantaks information he has it all the same with Dr Yang but i think maybe they havent been given certain keys. IMHO!!!

 

My art trains in this fashion on breathing exercises but not so much in the combination ive posted in a different way.

 

Regards

Spirit Ape

[Ian]

[VCraigP]

The problem is how he is using it and what he is using it for. I know what he's doing with his 'transmisions' What he says he is doing and what he is really doing are two different things, it's another one of the lies, and it's very serious. I will NEVER allow him to touch me or to get anywhere near me with his energy. Nor will I exchange energy with someone who has been poisoned by his energy, unfortunately.

 

I just want you all to know, those of you who got a first impression of Max that he is sinister, that your first impression was indeed correct. Don't forget what my path is. I've seen his soul.

 

 

Well I have to say you seem to be getting nearer to saying what you want to say.

 

May I invite you to say it in the clearest terms possible?

 

What exactly is Max really doing with his transmissions according to your perceptions?

 

What is he using it for?

 

If you are going to say something this extreme you might as well be out with your full view.

 

What is the sinister plan? If it is very serious and you are aware of the true nature of it then perhaps you should share your understanding with all of us.

 

respectfully tendered inquiry.

 

Craig

[Taomeow]

Since my name was mentioned in this thread, I feel I have to make a public statement of sorts.

 

I agree with NONE of the views expressed by Strarjumper in regards to Max and Kunlun. I feel very misplaced mentioned in the same context with these views. Please fellow kunluners and everybody else, make a note of it.

 

Amicus Plato, sed magis amica Veritas. (Plato is a friend, but Truth is a greater friend.)

[rex]

I have no idea...I haven't seen anything strange.

 

There isn't a kunlun worm inside of us. But there is a constant sensation of the transmission energy. Is there an off switch for it? Maybe not...so people should make the right choice when deciding if they want to practice this.

Thanks for your patient response Scotty. I'm now popping back down below the parapet.

[Apech]

I just want you all to know, those of you who got a first impression of Max that he is sinister, that your first impression was indeed correct. Don't forget what my path is. I've seen his soul.

 

 

As a total outsider to all this - I have no access to Kunlun in the UK (as far as I know) and have only read the website and read discussions on here - 'sinister' of course means 'left handed' and refers to the hidden side of the shield in heraldry (the other side being 'dexter' or shown - the sword wielding hand). So sinister only refers to a particular way of using energy - hidden/dark and does not mean 'evil'. So if you work 'nothing- something - nothing' as has been mentioned, then to someone on another path this might appear sinister.

 

I would also like to make the point that actually no teacher gives you anything. What they do is point out to you the presence of energy or reality which is already there. They are allowing you to access the infinite of potential 'within' yourself which your ordinary mind or state of being obscures. All initiatory systems work in this way. Some people who perhaps have achieved greater confidence in their work and have established freer access to deeper states of being can assist others who are less sure about things. Ultimately while teachers are needed, we do things for ourselves. I think this is worth remembering when dealing with 'gurus'.

 

Have any other Taobums got interesting waterproofs? I think this should be a theme in itself.

[Spirit Ape]

I have a legit question how long ago did Max learn this from Jenny and how long did it take for him to learn?

 

Ape

[三江源]

.

Edited March 24, 2015 by 三江源

[h.uriahr]

Anyone who has been practicing qigong or reiki can put on a seminar and stun people who have never experienced the feeling of qi. It's sounding like that's exactly what he is. A run of the mill practitioner.

[Cameron]

Anyone who has been practicing qigong or reiki can put on a seminar and stun people who have never experienced the feeling of qi. It's sounding like that's exactly what he is. A run of the mill practitioner.

 

 

The thing is many or most of the Taobums who have taken Max's workshop had alot of experience with different qigong or Taoist systems before hand. Most of them/us spent years and took workshops with many teachers and what Max showed us was not "run of the mill".

 

In any case, this is the last thread where I defend Max or try to talk about practices in a constructive way with people who are obviously biased in the first place.

 

I agree with Craig though Star stop messing around and just tell us what you think is really happening. I think what you already said was Max is an energy vampire or something. I remember when you first said it because it was during a Max workshop I was at with some other Taobums in Arizona.

 

I think the consensus was if he is a vampire why does the practice give you so much energy?

Edited October 21, 2008 by Cameron

[wudangquan]

(I believe) part of the problem is that people assume that any energy is good energy, when it's not necessarily that way.

 

I am not talking about the specific case here that we are discussing, but just a generalization.

 

Qi is just qi. Animals, trees, monkeys and worms have it. It's everywhere. It's also conditioned energy though and it's not the same as cultivation energy which is transformed from something else and is open and unconditioned (caveat: IMHE).

 

At the level of Qi - other things can manifest similar effects. Like if it's dense enough, very dense other types of energies can be transmitted that will have positive seeming manifestations, although they are negative types of energy. It's just that they are dense enough to have this effect.

 

It's not many people, especially people who are beginners or who don't have much attainment who can distinguish the difference between Qi, De, Karma, Gong, and all types of other energies.

 

Also, in my (PERSONAL) experience, true masters and those with genuinely high attainment status can correct the problems around them without using conditioned intent. It just happens.

 

That doesn't mean that they won't - whatever . . . Blast open your tianmu or something to see this or that but in general (I believe) that the principle is that you have to cultivate the actual cultivation energy yourself. Qi is a different situation because it's just a normal thing at the human level.

 

The thing I am curious about is why people assume that because they feel energy it's necessarily "good" energy?

 

And I am not trying to get into any good/evil arguments here - I'm talking about the difference between whats beneficial and harmful.

 

Eating a cucumber and licking an un-insulated power line . . .

[Yoda]

At least the great guy vs evil wizard debate is civil these days.

[Mal]

haha

 

what a difference a year makes