Zhan Zhuang

[Gerard]

Traditionally in China, ZZ was the only method practiced before advancing to moving forms like Bagua and Xingyi (in this last case the santi posture instead of wuji/pole standing)

 

I trained that way and let me tell you something: You can tell the difference.

 

I no longer need ZZ due to that development reached with the initial stage (in my case I trained ZZ purely for 5 years).

 

I find Bagua like moving ZZ in turbo mode. I love it, very powerful and releases all blockages existing in our body/mind/energetic structure plus a new arrangement of joints, muscles and tendons.

 

 

[guangping]

Well, I don't know if that's true for the whole history of the forms.

 

What I do know is that around the turn of the century in Beijing you had a rare confluence of some very high level martial artists (and I'll get the names mangled here, sorry), of the Yang family in tai chi, Dong Hai-chan in bagua, and the teacher of Wang Xiangzhai in Hsing-i. They met and exchanged training methods and that's why there is such a mixture in training methods. As a historical tidbit, Wang's hsing-i teacher killed a man and was put in jail for a few years, where he was in chains. He practiced his hsing-i forms while in those chains and came out of jail more powerful than ever; and that is why the Beijing forms of hsing-i have short stepping and explosive movement.

 

zhan zhuang came from Hsing-i. Standing in santi position became single pole standing when Wang Xiangzhai created I-chuan, horse stance became pole standing.

 

After getting standing down, you learn how to vibrate and create fajing. Then you take what you learned and apply it to moving forms and weapons.

 

I agree that bagua is pretty special, but I've seen how hsing-i is good at killing people. I'm just content in using it in the tai chi form that I do now, having given up some others.

[Yuen Biao]

Microcosmic orbit is for sitting meditation, macrocosmic orbit is for standing as it involves the legs.

 

Mantak Chia teaches the 'microcosmic orbit' standing doesn't he? I was under the impression you can run this standing and seating whatever the preference.

Edited October 28, 2008 by Yuen Biao

[guangping]

I haven't read much of Mantak Chia except for the first few books he wrote, so I'm not sure what he currently labels things , and it's been over 25 years since I picked up one of his books. I've seen this described by several authors, so I could easily be confusing and blending them all together. Something I've been doing a lot in my 50's. I can hardly wait to get to John McCain's age...

 

First, let me say that there really is no difference energetically with the results of the two.

The microcosmic orbit is for sitting meditation, where you run energy down your front, back up the spine, over the head, and back down the front again. The successful completion of this "circuit" is the orbit.

 

In standing meditation you incorporate the legs and the energetic pattern resembles a figure eight instead of a simple circle, and it's been labeled the macrocosmic orbit, being a greater energy field.

 

Adding Bruce Frantzis's water method meditation is a good tool for getting past blockages, and may prevent or lessen the shaking of muscles and tendons that occur during practice.

[Yuen Biao]

The microcosmic orbit is for sitting meditation, where you run energy down your front, back up the spine, over the head, and back down the front again. The successful completion of this "circuit" is the orbit.

 

I know the definition and the method, I merely disagree that 'Microcosmic Orbit' is for sitting only. From my experience in Qigong, which I attest is only ten years compared to you, I have never heard anyone say that this should only be done sitting?

 

Adding Bruce Frantzis's water method meditation is a good tool for getting past blockages, and may prevent or lessen the shaking of muscles and tendons that occur during practice.

 

I'm not familiar with this technique, I'll try to look into it.

 

Regards.

[Mal]

I have never heard anyone say that this should only be done sitting?

 

I read guangping's response as suggesting that if you are standing you can also (preferably ?) run the circuit through the legs.

 

Chia usually has a pic somewhere in the books that shows this longer path (It's on the cover on mine, I think)

[Baguakid]

My friend in China is studying Bagua from his grandfather. To start he is practicing ZZ in the 8 mother palm formation. I can't say enough about standing ZZ. If learning internal arts I believe it will be "THE" factor in the end result. I watched a practioner compete last weekend in the intermediate division and can tell he did no ZZ training.

 

Bagua is very demanding (if training for martial arts). That's why few practice it. It's murder.

[froggie]

Hi, would this include: Stomping on the ground or jumping, hitting a boxing bag or wooden/other-material dummy (expell through arms, hands), trying to open the channels on the bottom of your feet and (barefootedly or with natural soles) trying to direct energy deep into the ground? I think these are the ones that i know. I would be happy to know other's and other's practises.

 

innergy

 

Hello,

 

I've practiced standing meditation for over 20 years. You need to learn this properly from a teacher, as the corrections can be very subtle and non-verbal. You should not try to run energy through your body until you have the basic exercise down and have stood for 200 hours, traditionally speaking. Standing is just the beginning of the practice, but is good by itself.

 

Microcosmic orbit is for sitting meditation, macrocosmic orbit is for standing as it involves the legs.

 

Proper practice begins with at least 1/2 hour of warmup exercises, 40 minutes of standing, and other moving exercises afterwards to distribute the chi throughout the body. If you build up too much chi you also must know how to dissipate excess chi back into the ground. Heating up and shaking is not a goal but a by-product of purging things like lactic acid buildup in the muscles. It's not wise to become addicted to things you are trying to release.

Edited October 29, 2008 by froggie

[Spectrum]

expand into the corners of the 3 inche box