Get to know the real Procurator

[doc benway]

Hi Sean,

I'm glad to see your sensitive, sensible, and considered response. I was looking forward to your thoughts.

I respect your decision and rationale. You are an excellent moderator and there are several special people on this forum that make it worthwhile despite the occasional bad apple.

 

I've always known there was something more deeply diseased in Procurator based on his consistently elitist, critical, and hurtful responses. It comes as no surprise that he has the immature, ignorant, and narrow-minded views of a racist. People like Procurator are cowards. They attack in relative anonymity or with the protection of a group. They are the product of equally ignorant parents or peers. All of us are a product of our conditioning and there is no conditioning more effective or more harmful, to the individual and society at large, than racism.

 

What's more important than banning him from participation in this forum is that we all now know what type of person he is. It's up to us as individuals to choose whether to maintain a relationship with him or not. I've ignored his posts for a long time and will continue to do so. There is no punishment anyone could mete out that could be worse than actually being such a person. He is beneath my contempt.

 

Rather than expect you to formally ban him Sean, any members of this forum who choose to take a stand against racism and bigotry in our group of friends can simply act as if Procurator had been banned. It is very easy to do. He is already on my ignore list and will stay there permanently. Some of you may disagree with my position and I respect each person's right to make their own choice. As far as I'm concerned Procurator does not exist on this forum and I would encourage all members of like mind to simply place him on ignore permanently.

[Procurator]

 

 

Even though, subjectively I feel close to certain you are telling the truth growant, disputes within this arena will always boil down to one person's word against another.

 

his description of the events is accurate. feel free to do whatever. (shrug)

[Aetherous]

I have no say here, and Sean is of course free to make any decision he wants...

 

Also, sorry Sean I don't mean to make you think this over even more...but:

 

I don't think that it's okay to allow such things to take place even in private messages. The private message portion is still part of this website. If someone goes into the chat room and says nasty things, just because it's not on the forum portion doesn't mean they shouldn't be held to the same rules as if it was.

 

Nastiness is nastiness, whether whispered one to one or yelled in front of everyone.

 

Should people join this site and then be subjected to total strangers PMing them and saying racist or hateful things?

 

And it wasn't just a random PM...it was about sharing Taoist materials, I believe. Should people be afraid to share books or videos with each other just because their legal name is indicative of a certain race? What if procurator is actually a violent person about his beliefs?

 

I'm not asking for a change in the decision...just putting some thoughts out there. It really is a tough subject to try and moderate.

[SiliconValley]

his description of the events is accurate. feel free to do whatever. (shrug)

 

 

Hugs brother... Hope you feel better ...

[Taomeow]

Speaking of prejudices... if I'd be to judge you on this statement alone, my opinion on you wouldn't be a very good one.

Also bringing it up into the public. I've been raised to act like a man, resolving things discreetly, without much fuss. And certainly not complaining and whining to others.

 

So you see, we live in different worlds.

We need compasion, yes, but we also need wisdom and a broader understanding.

If it were to happen to me, I wouldn't act the way you did, and do.

 

I hope you understand.

Peace

 

L1

Do you work for the government by any chance?..

Blame the victim, change the subject. A time-honored manipulative move most governments and some individuals use for all purposes to resolve a controversy.

 

Bad one, IMO.

[growant]

Sean, I appreciate your sensitive, empathetic, and well thought out response. It is OK with me if you ban him or if you don't ban him- I'm not sure that was my intent either way. I think my intent was more to expose him.

 

For those who have professed to 'liking' Procurator and being OK with his actions- I am not OK with you. I have no use for people who are OK with casual cruelty and racism. I am reminded, however, of a story I heard once about once you see a dog bite someone, you need to be careful around it for the rest of its life because now you know what it is capable of. You would do well to meditate on this story.

 

My maternal grandfather had a wife, kids, and whole family in Germany- he was the only one of his family to survive the Holocaust. I took some time and did some thinking before starting this thread after the incident occurred. I did not know Procurator's real name or address so there wasn't much I could do to him.

 

In honor of my Grandfather, however, I felt an obligation to act and to expose Procurator's evil deed (and make no mistake- it was evil- whether or not Procurator himself is evil is another question.) Cruelty without provocation, to me, again, is an unforgivable sin and perhaps worse than the anti-semitism. Evil thrives on the foods of shame and silence and darkness, and it is these things, I believe, that allow atrocities to happen and happen again- exposure, sunlight, kills it and sends it into hiding. I started this thread to cast some Light.

[Mal]

For those who have professed to 'liking' Procurator and being OK with his actions I am not OK with you.

 

 

That o.k. Regardless of what you say or feel I still love you.

 

This was in the favorite quotes thread recently

"I shall endure harsh words, as the elephant in battle endures arrows, for most people behave poorly"

- the Buddha

[AugustLeo]

-.

[Pietro]

...

For those who have professed to 'liking' Procurator and being OK with his actions- I am not OK with you. I have no use for people who are OK with casual cruelty and racism.

...

 

Yes, I think that the correct way of looking at the situation, in this little irrelevant corner of TBs, is that I am ok with you, and you are not ok with me.

 

Procurator,

growant said that you might have committed a crime.

Would you be willing to tell us where do you live, and/or to contact the local authorities?

 

Pietro

 

And, in case anyone wonders, no I am not being ironic.

[Taomeow]

Pietro,

 

since you wrote a lengthy post explaining that basic human decency extended toward members of other races or creeds is made-in-America political correctness and nothing but,

 

I would like to put your mind at ease a bit: not everyone in America is guilty of that, some think exactly the way you do. You will be thrilled to know that those who do refer to someone of your descent as a "dago" or a "guido." I think the older generation folks go with "dago" and the younger ones with "guido," but I can't be completely sure, since I haven't always lived here. The connotations, however, are the same for both terms, far as I've been able to discern. They denote someone who is, because he was born of Italian parents and for no other reason, a poorly educated, cheap sleazy character with criminal tendencies, a loud mouth atop a lower-than-average IQ, with a penchant for loud tasteless clothes, extreme shallowness, unpleasant and/or ridiculous but very funny mannerisms of gestures and speech, and chronically lacking in honesty, common sense, and personal hygiene. I've heard both terms used by whites, blacks, Jews, homosexuals, men, women, anyone who is of the same views as you are, on more occasions than one, always with casual contempt and with no second thoughts. Yes, they too learned when they were kids that that's what you are. You reminded me of them, they remind me of you. Perhaps you're right and I'm wrong. So... which term would you like me to use when addressing you, "dago" or "guido?" -- you will have gained one more non-politically-correct supporter in the USA then, wouldn't it be nice?..

Edited October 24, 2008 by Taomeow

[Procurator]

 

Procurator,

growant said that you might have committed a crime.

Would you be willing to tell us where do you live, and/or to contact the local authorities?

 

Pietro

 

And, in case anyone wonders, no I am not being ironic.

It depends what is the punishment for my crime is gonna be - if its attending a sensitivity class with bagels and coffee- yes....just for the giggle value; if the secret police is gonna break down the door in the middle of the night , scare the kids, beat me and drag me away - you know i just dont see how it is helpful.

 

so...would you happen to know what is the appropriate punishment for insulting a jew is nowdays? i mean other than reading through avalanche of whining in this thread?

 

 

Pietro

 

And, in case anyone wonders, no I am not being ironic.

compagnero, i believe the expression you are looking for is "cute" Edited October 24, 2008 by Procurator

[Taomeow]

Race is merely an extremely fuzzy, social ("folk") classification strategy based on superficial visual characteristics that are the result of about .01 percent of our genetic makeup (which can rapidly shift in response to, ie: weather)

 

For a few years, I was very interested in blood type research, mostly from the medical/genetic perspective, with a bit of psychological implications on the side. It appears that people do inherit clusters of genes (hundreds, possibly thousands) for all manner of traits together with a particular blood type, because hundreds if not thousands of genes responsible for other things are linked with this one into a "cluster." So people of a particular cluster of genes will have more things in common than people of a certain different cluster, and the blood type is what determines who is the closest or the farthest human being to your own type to a much greater extent than pretty much anything else. Race doesn't; all four blood types are encountered in all races, although some have higher concentrations of one and others, of some other blood type. E.g., B is fairly common among Asians but rare among Europeans; AB is rare everywhere but is more common in Japan than elsewhere; O is ubiquitous everywhere but nearly overwhelming in Native Americans -- all tribes but the Cherokees (who have, surprisingly, more Bs than Europeans though fewer than Asians) are almost exclusively Os; Jews have more Bs and ABs than non-Jews they live among -- unless they live among Asians, who beat them to it; A is the second most common type and you are likely to find it anywhere you look; but again, the split of the population into what percentage has which is different for different regions.

 

Anyway, I was surprised to find hard biological evidence in support of the shocking fact that any black guy who has my blood type is BY FAR closer to me genetically than my own kids, whose blood types (and therefore clusters of thousands of other genetic traits) are different from mine and from each other's. What a hoot!

[Procurator]

Pietro,

 

.......refer to someone of your descent as a "dago" or a "guido." I think the older generation folks go with "dago" and the younger ones with "guido," ..... So... which term would you like me to use when addressing you, "dago" or "guido?" -- you will have gained one more non-politically-correct supporter in the USA then, wouldn't it be nice?..

 

eh uhm...while you are at it why dont you explain what exactly this ethnic perjorative means that you called me the other day "churka"

 

otzyn', churka

 

 

(guys wait for it , it is hilarious)

[Taomeow]

eh uhm...while you are at it why dont you explain what exactly this ethnic perjorative means that you called me the other day "churka"

(guys wait for it , it is hilarious)

Churka, in Russian: A block of uncarved wood. First metaphoric meaning: someone with underdeveloped human sensibilities and poor judgment. Second metaphoric meaning: Russian racists may use it to refer to a non-Russian of Asian descent.

 

Since I don't know your nationality, am not a racist, and know you know Russian (and a thing or two about you in addition to that), I used Churka in the first metaphoric sense. You are someone as human as a churka. I rest my case.

 

Otzyn': "leave me alone," Russian slang.

 

Why, did I miss something?

[gendao]

Well lets take a look at the Chinese. The most Racist anti western people on Earth. They call us all kinds of names,Deem us Unworthy to Attain their Secrets etc. But i dont see anybody trying to Ban the Chinese.

Lol, actually the Chinese are remarkably civil to Westerners - particularly when you consider the looonngg history of uninstigated Western colonialism in China. Opium Wars ring a bell, anyone? Where 100 million Chinese were killed over 150 years of drug-trafficking from Jews (David Sassoon family) and the British to relieve their trade imbalance?

 

And yet, Shanghai was the only place in the world to offer Jews refuge in WWII?

 

Meanwhile, America had a Chinese Exclusion Act severely restricting Chinese immigration from 1882 to 1943. So, yes, this country DID literally ban Chinese...for 61 years!

 

And China gets painted by America as the "militant threat" today? The black kettle that has military bases all over the globe and has killed a million Iraqis in their latest "police action?" When has China ever attacked a Western nation - like they have attacked China? What a f'n joke.

 

Yes, some families can guard their trade secrets (and btw, many are kept from other Chinese as well or given to non-Chinese) - but that's no different than American companies keeping their industrial trade secrets. Or secret societies and country clubs here. You think I, as a Chinese-American, can easily join an exclusive elite fraternity here? Not that I desire to, but just sayin'...

 

 

Anyhow, peace, love & understanding to all. But, if you want respect, you might want to give some first. I'm just glad that we have Taoism as a great cross-cultural unifier here, though.

Edited October 24, 2008 by vortex

[mYTHmAKER]

 

so...would you happen to know what is the appropriate punishment for insulting a jew is nowdays? i mean other/than reading through avalanche of whining in this thread?

 

 

poor sick baby

 

It occurs to me that we should close this thread as I get the feeling it is feeding procurator's sickness.

Edited October 24, 2008 by mYTHmAKER

[sean]

Procurator, can you share with us, from the simple, grounded and human perspective of your direct personal experience (ie: not theories, books you've read, or things teachers have told you), what the basis of your contempt for Jewish culture is?

 

Particularly I'm curious, what makes Jews "filthy"?

 

I'm not baiting you into insult here, I am being very specific with my question to make it as close to possible for you to answer without insult as is humanly possible within your apparently racist framework. Do be careful though.

 

And by Jewish culture, I mean traditions, customs, beliefs, attitudes, language, clothing style, etc. that are popularly and socially distinguished as Jewish. In other words, the only meaningful basis for a discussion of race, since biologically you are making a useless distinction when you use "Jewish" to refer to genes. (Unless you really think that the historical environmental factors accounting for superficial physiological characteristics are profound enough to be relevant to your disdain).

 

I'm all ears. I'm curious if you will actually reveal yourself as a human being here. Otherwise, I ask, why are you here? What do you want from the relationship your presence is creating with this community of people?

 

Best,

Sean

[宁]

Do you work for the government by any chance?..

Blame the victim, change the subject. A time-honored manipulative move most governments and some individuals use for all purposes to resolve a controversy.

 

Bad one, IMO.

 

I think you heavily misread what I said. It usually happens in internet discussions, as someone said, these are the joys of internet communication.

In spite of liking or not liking my initial response, I still maintain it.

 

And I'm sure Procurator doesn't need my or any other support on this... in fact I appologize to him and Growant for sticking my nose in someone elses problems.

I just sustain an idea, that a practicioner can go well beyound that type of manifested "sensitivity", and resolve things much faster and clearer.

My idea of it is that private problems should stay private, and be resolved private.

It's the best way, for me.

 

But like I said, we live in different worlds.

 

Here, this'll cheer you up:

 

"Bloody men are like bloody buses

You wait for about a year

And as soon as one approaches your stop

Two or three others appear.

 

You look at them flashing their indicators,

Offering you a ride.

You're trying to read the destinations,

You haven't much time to decide.

 

If you make a mistake, there is no turning back.

Jump off, and you'll stand there and gaze

While the cars and the taxis and lorries go by

And the minutes, the hours, the days"

 

- Wendy Cope (She wrote it in regard of men, but it can be applied to human relationships as well)

[Taomeow]

Little1,

 

I think you've been reading my mind and discovered that what's really going on there has nothing to do with the current thread, and much, with the poem you decided to post as a comment.

 

Keep working on your psychic skills, you show true promise.

[Procurator]

racists may use it to refer to a non-Russian of Asian descent.

 

... I used Churka

 

BINGO!!!! lol

 

Why, did I miss something?

just the entire concept of honesty and for all eternity too. Typical..or shall we say, sterotypical.

[Procurator]

 

 

I'm all ears. I'm curious if you will actually reveal yourself as a human being here. Otherwise, I ask, why are you here? What do you want from the relationship your presence is creating with this community of people?

 

Best,

Sean

Sean, I understand this forum is dear to your heart but please understand that I have no reason to be as affectionate to it as you are.

 

I am here to chat about something I am passionate about, similarly to my grabbing a cup of java on my way to work. I am not at the coffee shop for ambience or people, I am there for coffee.

 

Will there be an "out of business" sign one morning on the cofee shop door, I will head to the next one down the block without thinking twice.

 

Again not to rain on anybodys' parade but these are just words on the screen, good for 5 min of my daily surfing rutine but not for much else. However I am here for a reason: people are groping in the dark, all kind of nonsense is being foisted on poor saps. If I keep one or two from falling into a trap, I have nothing more to ask.

[Taomeow]

BINGO!!!! lol

 

just the entire concept of honesty and for all eternity too. Typical..or shall we say, sterotypical.

 

The usual snip-and-procuratize game with other people's posts. I am really finding you a genuine equal opportunity deal. I mean, usually I know which of the behaviors I find disgusting in a rare unfortunate individual saddled with many all at once I dislike the most, but with you, it's really hard to decide. Since you're on a first name basis with "all eternity" though, I'd have just about enough time to pick and choose. If I were to bother that is.

[ToL]

If I keep one or two from falling into a trap, I have nothing more to ask.

 

the blind leading the blind...

 

You want people to see the good, but you are focusing on the bad. this is not good, this is not good, your not helping, you sound like an old man who is tired of life, who didn't find what he is looking for, if you don't have anything, seek help, or stop seeking. but don't try to heal others with your sickness, this sickness comes from society, you are trying to heal yourself by healing others, that's ok, but do it from a pure place of love, not from your anger and hate.

 

Best Wishes

Edited October 24, 2008 by ToL

[Xienkula1]

Yod

 

Therefore do the wise see in the letter Yod

The fatherhood of Chokmah

The unbounded Wisdom which establishes all.

 

Heh

 

Again, a window is set in the wall of a house,

Even as the eye is set in the head

They who dwell within may look abroad

To see what passeth without

Hence it is written in the Book of Formation

That the letter Heh correspondeth unto the faculty

of sight

 

Vau

 

In all the universe there is no break.

By bonds indissoluble

Eachpoint is fastened to every other.

 

Heh

 

Of mine own substance are all things made,

And I give myself freely to every one.

They know me truely who see

That it is my nature to bring forth

And to originate

...this whole universe is an expression of my primal will to yeild fruit.

 

- Book of Tokens

[sean]

However I am here for a reason: people are groping in the dark, all kind of nonsense is being foisted on poor saps. If I keep one or two from falling into a trap, I have nothing more to ask.

Ahh, I see.

 

You are another Li Jiong.

 

Got it.

 

Well, you've confirmed that I have your number, and I will anxiously await your new ebook release to save us from the coming locusts, but you still avoid my direct question.

 

I wonder if you could take your next five minute coffee break from re-sharpening all the pencils at your desk to lead us from our ignorance.

 

Because you are either very wrong, and made a blatant mistake that created suffering for other sentient beings behind these "words on the screen". In which case the human, non-sociopathic response would be to realize your error and apologize from a heart-centered place of recognition and humility.

 

OR, you are right and have access to some yet unheard of wisdom that explains, in simple terms so that we blind saps can understand, why people of Jewish culture should categorically be considered "filthy" and avoided and how this view fits into an authentic path of Taoist cultivation.

 

Still waiting. Please save us from the flood Procurator.

 

Sean