Edited: Celibacy Health Dangers?

[ddilulo_06]

I am on day 3 of the Kunlun 100 days; however, I have no idea what the dangers are, if any. I did quite a bit of searching on here. Some say it can be dangerous, some say there's nothing to worry about.

 

Can anyone who has done it give some advice? I'm not really interested in how to make it easier, as I got plenty of tips from other threads on here, but I didn't really find anything conclusive on the possible health risks.

 

I just turned 20 on October 10.

 

Edit: I'm doing celibacy, not semen retention. I think it will be easier that way.

Edited October 22, 2008 by ddilulo_06

[Trunk]

.. possible health risks.

Here (link) y' go.

[ddilulo_06]

Thanks Trunk

 

"(By the way, "semen retention" refers to when there's been aroused sexual activity, approaching orgasm, but no ejaculation. Saved aroused jing is more problematic than unaroused.)"

 

Oh... I guess I don't want to do semen retention, but no masturbation at all. I actually am refusing sexual thoughts. I don't want to risk arousing myself.

 

"This essay is not about solutions; it's about identifying areas of risk."

 

Do you have any links to articles about how to go about this in the least risky way? I see that 90% stat and I'm somewhat spooked now.

 

Have you gone 100 days?

[h.uriahr]

Thanks Trunk

 

"(By the way, "semen retention" refers to when there's been aroused sexual activity, approaching orgasm, but no ejaculation. Saved aroused jing is more problematic than unaroused.)"

 

Oh... I guess I don't want to do semen retention, but no masturbation at all. I actually am refusing sexual thoughts. I don't want to risk arousing myself.

 

"This essay is not about solutions; it's about identifying areas of risk."

 

Do you have any links to articles about how to go about this in the least risky way? I see that 90% stat and I'm somewhat spooked now.

 

Have you gone 100 days?

All major religions have people who dont masturbate or have sexual intercourse, this goes on their entire lives. Nothing, NOTHING dangerous about not spilling the junk.

 

Thanks Trunk

 

"(By the way, "semen retention" refers to when there's been aroused sexual activity, approaching orgasm, but no ejaculation. Saved aroused jing is more problematic than unaroused.)"

 

Oh... I guess I don't want to do semen retention, but no masturbation at all. I actually am refusing sexual thoughts. I don't want to risk arousing myself.

 

"This essay is not about solutions; it's about identifying areas of risk."

 

Do you have any links to articles about how to go about this in the least risky way? I see that 90% stat and I'm somewhat spooked now.

 

Have you gone 100 days?

By the way, I've gone 4 years.

[Taiji Bum]

I did semen retention with stimulation like ddilulo_06 described and had no problems. I havent blown my jing since 1994 and until recently I havent had any sexual stimulation either. I have had no bad health effects.

[RedJade]

[i asked a very similar questin a while ago and about the kun lun practices. Can anyone tell me where to find copies of manuals, etc that outline how to do these practices? (kun lun)

I tried to do 100 days of no spillage but at around day 28 I got violently ill, vomiting, fever, etc. I tried again 1 year later with the same effects. As such I want to find more information on the practice and practices that involve this so I can be sure that third time works without the illness.

Please Help

[MASTERforge]

Thats pretty amazing!

 

I have read on here before people who are doing similar practices are masturbating to the point of ejaculation then pinching the tip of their penis so nothing comes out. That way they get retention and orgasm.

 

But there is a problem.

 

I have read that some get a backflush of semen into the bladder and this causes infection. Also the muscles and 'tubing' get damaged because of the unnatural practice.

 

So you cant really have your cake and eat it.

 

I can't say if this will happen to all and I have never retained longer than 9 days. At that point I had serious nut ache and had to release just to relieve the pain. The first few days I was really aroused and anything would get my thoughts on sex.

 

My personal opinion is that ejaculation is as natural as taking a shit, burping or even dying. Its like anything, too much or too little can be damaging. Our society is hyper sexed and I think without being exposed to marketing and media our sex drives would be much less.

 

So maybe reduction has more benefits than abstinence.

 

But thats my personal opinion and I wish you all the best on your journey.

[gendao]

Here (link) y' go.

I think Keith's site sums it up pretty well.

 

The primary risk is creating more blockages and stagnation by forcefully attempting to retain.

 

I think you need your MCO to be open to retain "easily" without force. Of course, I think many are retaining in order to open their MCO. Kind of a catch-22?

 

Maybe the trick is to work towards both retention ability and an open MCO progressively?

[Taiji Bum]

Retention is more like masturbation to the point of orgasm but just before you clench you anal muscles and thrust you hips back and stop ejaculation/orgasm that way. There is no damage this way.

 

If you just pinch your penis you will still lose your jing when you stop pinching. I believe damage occurs with the perineum pressure method to stop ejaculation. If you press the wrong place you can get the same kind of groin injury that mountain bikers get and then you have problems with incontinence and getting an erection.

[ddilulo_06]

...some of this stuff

 

Can anyone tell me where to find copies of manuals, etc that outline how to do these practices? (kun lun)

http://www.kunlunbliss.com/books.html

Edited October 23, 2008 by ddilulo_06

[xenolith]

There is no healthy way other than learning seminal kung fu and chi movement through the micro-cosmic orbit.

 

What women do...

[Mal]

[h.uriahr]

If you find a particular type of meditation that you really enjoy then celibacy will be much easier because of the progress you get from being celibate. No tricks.

[ddilulo_06]

Sounds like there are many ways to go about this. I'm just going to keep doing Kunlun and listen to my body. I'll ejac only if I'm getting pain/irritable etc... not just lust feelings though.

 

I'm going to ask Max about this @ the San Francisco seminar.

Edited October 23, 2008 by ddilulo_06

[thedole]

This kan & li seemed to take the edge off for me if i practiced it instead of surrendering to lust when it came along. Just started a week ago would be day seven today but I have to "continue" now as I surrendered to lust instead last night..

[Aetherous]

If you find a particular type of meditation that you really enjoy then celibacy will be much easier because of the progress you get from being celibate. No tricks.

 

Agreed!

[ddilulo_06]

What benefits have you guys noticed from being celibate... both in your practices as in other areas of your life?

 

And, any other crappy parts other than no pleasure from sexual fun?

[h.uriahr]

What benefits have you guys noticed from being celibate... both in your practices as in other areas of your life?

 

And, any other crappy parts other than no pleasure from sexual fun?

Day after day meditation gets better, mind isnt so foggy and the body feels better. No crappy parts at all for me. Dont get me wrong, I LOVE sex. LOVE it. I love meditation aswell and I feel more satisfaction from meditation. Who has control? You or your sexual lust?

[thedole]

I didn't notice that these changes were so dramatic until I failed. But from only a very short time(six days) of non-ejaculation I actually got less lustfull, my everlasting apathy started to loose its grip along with my depression. I also think that it increased my chi awareness a bit but I'm at a very low level from before so that one I'm not sure of. How i noticed these things was how they went boom back in my face when I spilled my semen. But I was a bad case of a porn/masturbation addict from before so my jing is probably way depleted, don't know If one can expect such dramatic results with a more balanced starting point..

[elcaminante]

Who has control? You or your sexual lust?

 

This is the reason why I have also chosen to abstain myself from sex as much as I can. This decision was made when realizing how little freedom I had over my life.

When this happened, I experienced a kind of revolution within myself against all those psychological forces wich prevent me from acting at will.

 

To me, the internal power that comes from this process is so remarkable that surpasses by far any kind of annoyance.

Edited October 23, 2008 by elcaminante

[genmaicha]

I was given the advice to concentrate on the heart chakra when the lust for sex becomes very strong. It has worked very well with me.

Sex is the strongest urge we have, so it is not easy to ignore it. And- here I'm just guessing- it's probably not good to supress it but rather to transform it, which I think happens when one concentrates on the heart chakra.

[Zeus]

This kind of questions regarding not ejaculating, has emerged many times. From what I have witnessed, and from dicussions with masters and students, I have come to the conclusion that one should't worry too much.

Sex is natural. It is in our nature to "spread the seed". You can find the time to meditate. You can find the time to have sex. If you deny your desire, and oppress it, it will come back stronger than ever. That's what "wet dreams" are. A chance to release the tension.

 

Enjoy life. Enjoy cultivation. You can do both, and get the benefits. Don't be too strict with your self. We are not monks. We are people living in cities, not hermits up in the mountains. We all need the discipline of cultivation, but at the same time there is nothing better and joyful as the touch of a woman.

[Zhan Zhuang]

This kind of questions regarding not ejaculating, has emerged many times. From what I have witnessed, and from dicussions with masters and students, I have come to the conclusion that one should't worry too much.

Sex is natural. It is in our nature to "spread the seed". You can find the time to meditate. You can find the time to have sex. If you deny your desire, and oppress it, it will come back stronger than ever. That's what "wet dreams" are. A chance to release the tension.

 

Enjoy life. Enjoy cultivation. You can do both, and get the benefits. Don't be too strict with your self. We are not monks. We are people living in cities, not hermits up in the mountains. We all need the discipline of cultivation, but at the same time there is nothing better and joyful as the touch of a woman.

 

Agreed

[Walker]

I am no expert in this field, not even close, and know no more about Kunlun than the bits and pieces I've come across about it online, mostly on this forum (not exactly a source of consensus on the topic, though always entertaining). However, as a male in his mid-twenties I've certainly had occasion to have a number of discussions related to this topic with my teacher, who is a Daoist, so there might be some value in my trying to interpret some of what he's told me here for the sake of discussion, even if much of it has been said or disproven here in the past.

 

For one, my teacher has not explained the desire for sex as something that is purely mental--and if my understanding is correct then this is a viewpoint echoed throughout Daoism and TCM. Sexual desire stems in part from a buildup of sexual energy which, he says, Daoists view it as quite natural to express in moderate amounts of sex. He has stressed that to attempt to hold in your semen when you are without a technique to work with the energy can and will lead to stagnation. Physical and mental problems will then follow.

 

One can see such advice play out in Western medical science in studies which demonstrate that regular ejaculation is correlated with lower rates of prostate cancer. Needless to say, the vast, vast majority of men in the world who don't ejaculate regularly also don't do any sort of work with their sexual energy. It stands to reason (and this I have run by my teacher) that such non-ejaculating, non-energy working men are facing higher cancer rates than those who ejaculate because of stagnation and its complications. I have wondered if perhaps some of the sexual deviance in the Catholic priesthood, for example, may partly stem from mental disturbances caused by incomplete celibacy practices.

 

At some point in 2007 I mentioned to my teacher that after about seven to ten days without ejaculation I notice in myself a nervous, uncomfortable energy that makes it just about impossible to maintain tranquility and focus. Part of his response was to say, "the practical reality for the moment is that you are without a method that can help you reduce desire. An old teacher would advise you to do your best until such time as an opportunity arises for you to deal with your sexual energy." This reminds me of a quote from Chronicles of Tao (a book I am aware bears its own controversies), which was along the lines of, "celibacy without technique is insanity."

 

In terms of what is best to do for your health while you lack such a technique, I cannot speak for Kunlun practitioners, but my teacher has echoed what I recall that Master Hua Ching Ni has emphasized in some of his written work: have very moderate amounts of sex according to your own natural rhythm and regenerative capabilities with a partner of the opposite sex whom you love. Masturbation he counsels against because it reinforces illusion. Wet dreams are also not great because, he says, they can cause emotional disturbance and result in a great loss of jing. But life does not always allow everybody to be in a loving sexual relationship, not everybody is heterosexual, and casual sex carries its own dangers. So the advice remains, do your best and what is most natural given what is at hand--I leave its up to you to decide if that's a pun!

 

My own personal experience, though not very many years long, has been that regular qigong and meditation practice has greatly reduced my interest in most sensual pleasures--but this has not been because of much if any active renunciation. Desire for such things has simply fallen away of its own gradual accord. Drugs, drunkenness, adrenaline, and violence I now never crave. Music, tv, heavy foods, raucous bonhomie, etc, I quite seldom crave. Now, sex I don't especially desire until I've gone about week or more without ejaculation. The longer I go, the more intense the desire becomes and I think I'm starting to notice a pattern that the sexual thoughts associated with the desire become more... what is the word... elaborate? Convoluted? Intensely nagging? Even perverse? Perhaps all of these things as the energy builds up haha. I think it might be telling that all of the things I've slowly stopped desiring except for sex are obviously quite bad for the body and pretty much obviously unecessary for a healthy life. So does my desire for sex remain because I am just that addicted to it, or perhaps because it is natural? Of course, the reality is probably more complex than that simplistic A-B choice and it seems that some of yall have a very different experience from me--I defer to those longer on these paths than myself for the answer.

 

I want to take into consideration the question, "who has control? You or your sexual lust?" First of all, I think there may be value in considering lust as more akin to mental sexual desire, and therefore something that we can learn to diminish or eliminate without knowing energetic techniques--and something which might go away of its own accord as one simply lives a more natural life and lessens exposure to hypersexual media, conversation, and behavior patterns. But the precedent in Daoism seems to me to be that sexual desire is not just part of the imagination, so to try and exert control over it could be misguided at best and downright dangerous at worst.

 

For me, at least, I think it is beneficial to think of my sexual desire, which is partly rooted in the body, as akin to my hunger. Yes, both of those things are more powerful than "me" (whatever the "me" that is separate from them is), and that is quite natural. If I one day learn a technique to deal with sexual energy, I would not be surprised if I never feel an uncontrollable urge to have an orgasm and release after putting it into diligent practice. Same way as if I one day learn to take essence directly from nature I don't doubt that I could come to forget what a growling belly feels like. But since I am at neither of those levels right now my experience has been that I cause mental, emotional, and physical disharmony by trying to ignore or "transcend" the clear messages my body is sending me.

 

Also, and this is a whole other conversation, my teacher and writers I've come across have pointed out that qigong practice can stimulate sexual desire.

[Gats]

Hey all,

 

This is highly synchronistic as I have recently embarked on a routine of dedicated celibacy and meditation/chi gong practice. I also wondered if I would do myself any harm by doing this (I plan for around 30 days) but I would let the experience guide me (but at least go 3 weeks, my previous personal best).

 

I'm on day 11 right now and I feel very good. I'm doing a version of the Microcosmic Orbit exercise every morning and I feel that it is allowing the energy to move around and I feel less "plugged" than past experiments.

 

I also find that I've been a lot less horny although I am a little more sensitized towards female energy. The energy flow I feel now is very apparent and pretty constant (up spine into head and throughout body). I still get morning wood now and then but to subside an erection, concentrate on the 'ming-men' point directly opposite the naval on the spine and guide the sexual energy to that point. It seems to work quite well.

 

It's pretty seamless at the moment but I do not recommend suppression. If the desire is too strong, let it loose. I've been advised the same from one with experience learning the hard way. You should at least be doing some form of activity that works with energy. Even regular exercise helps but specific meditation/yoga/chi gong will work the best.

 

I'm not in a relationship right now so it's doable but I suppose it would be much more difficult if there was a woman around trying to seduce you