Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine Career?

[dragonfire]

Hi, I've been accepted to American College of Traditional Chinese Medicine but not sure

about attending anymore. I figure I would owe about 130K once I graduate. Its in

San Francisco. For those graduates out there or students, do you think it will be worth it?

I'm already 33 and not sure about spending another 10 years paying it off. I figure it would

be a conflict of patient care and my own desire to pay off the loans. Will I end up being

just more stressed because I can't afford to pay my loans.

 

I've spent the last 8 years as a software developer already and make 75K a year. I'm really

lost in terms of what to do. I want a career change, but its very expensive.

 

What should I do?

[sunshine]

Hi,

 

I think there are several options and questions to sort out involved...

 

Do you intend to dump your software developing career???

 

I mean: there are parttime schools for example...

 

www.jungtao.com

 

if I remember right: 1 whole week a month... that might leave enough space to

still work and earn money... some schools might offer students a change to work

there in order to make up for some of the loans...

 

but at the end it gets down to (I feel) :

 

if you heart longs for it, go for it!

 

check if the school you attend is approved by your state... or if you can get an equivalent

or something... some states require extra licesning thereafter...

 

Chines Medicine is rewarding. It is fascinating and moving... but it sures takes a lot of

time to dig into it... and be prepared for going deeper and deeper after basic training...

 

hope it helps

 

Harry

PS: Oooooloooooong: if you read it: How is your shoulder?

[Aetherous]

Why not save up with your current job, so you don't have to take out such huge loans?

[thedole]

I'm on a career change path myself after years of sick leaves and one of my paths lead to what you have done and the other is the one you're considering.. I find Chinese medicine and accupuncture tremendously interesting but I'm not sure how it would be for me to work with. I have problems with inter human relationships that I would need to iron out at least, and I don't know if there is clients for a full time income around here. The population density isn't very high here.. One of thos fields that I would most definitly study if money (and therefore time) wasn't an issue though.

 

I would think that someone who is cultivating and developing his chi and sensitivity to it will have an advantage in this field?

[Zusanli]

In my experience it is worth it. I owe nearly 200k from multiple medical education including acu. I don't think too much about paying it all back, because student loans are low interest and they work with you on paying them back, the government does not send italian hitmen after you.

 

That being said, many TCM practitioners struggle, with little business experience and poor management of patients. When you are done with your schooling, people will not know who you are and they won't really care. Your job becomes educating people about OM and how it can help them. If you love what you do, its much easier. And its easy to love acupuncture practice. I really think TCM is a lifepath of sorts. It becomes you. If your sure you want that, then the decision is easy.

 

Best,

 

MJ

[Taoist81]

Hi, I've been accepted to American College of Traditional Chinese Medicine but not sure

about attending anymore. I figure I would owe about 130K once I graduate. Its in

San Francisco. For those graduates out there or students, do you think it will be worth it?

I'm already 33 and not sure about spending another 10 years paying it off. I figure it would

be a conflict of patient care and my own desire to pay off the loans. Will I end up being

just more stressed because I can't afford to pay my loans.

 

I've spent the last 8 years as a software developer already and make 75K a year. I'm really

lost in terms of what to do. I want a career change, but its very expensive.

 

What should I do?

 

Wow, cost seems to vary a lot, or maybe it is just because you are in CA. Here in Houston ACAOM totals out at somewhere between $40,000-50,000 for a MAOM with paim management certification. Schools on the East coast were similarly priced. It would seem with the multitude of schools on the West coast prices would be lower...

As for the career, it seems to vary from person to person. Some graduates from ACAOM are making loads of $, others are working at restaurants or Walmart. It really boils down to the business side of it. Of course, in CA you would be able to charge higher prices than you could get away with in Houston also. We'll see after graduation (Dec. this year) and licensing here.

 

Good luck.

[Wayfarer64]

On a related topic... Does anyone know of a good acupuncturist in the NYC-Philly area - my sis has cronic back pain-!?

 

Many thanks

[林愛偉]

Career in Chinese Medicine?

 

 

Why would one want a career in medicine? Its not a job, its a lifestyle.

One doesn't study Chinese Medicine to make money in the long run, for

making money is inevitable, regardless how much or little.

 

Being a Chinese Medicine Doctor is not like being a doctor here in the west.

Because the cultural ethics of China are part of Chinese Medicine, money shouldn't be an issue.

 

If you don't eat today, but you helped some random person who either stepped into your clinic,

or you bumped into on the road, then you are truly a doctor of Chinese Medicine.

 

Charging is fine, but those who can't pay, don't turn away...lol

 

Then again, don't base your whole financial existence on medicine either. Save up for the rainy days,

or poor people, live less on the luxurious side of society, and utilize enough. Invest in loss and maintain that which nourishes just before excess.

 

ENJOY! hahaha

 

Peace,

Lin

Edited October 24, 2008 by 林愛偉

[sunshine]

On a related topic... Does anyone know of a good acupuncturist in the NYC-Philly area - my sis has cronic back pain-!?

 

Many thanks

 

Hi Pat

 

ask here: http://www.drtanshow.com/

 

they might have a Tan-trained practitioner in that area...

 

regards

 

Harry

[dragonfire]

Why would one want a career in medicine? Its not a job, its a lifestyle.

One doesn't study Chinese Medicine to make money in the long run, for

making money is inevitable, regardless how much or little.

 

Being a Chinese Medicine Doctor is not like being a doctor here in the west.

Because the cultural ethics of China are part of Chinese Medicine, money shouldn't be an issue.

 

If you don't eat today, but you helped some random person who either stepped into your clinic,

or you bumped into on the road, then you are truly a doctor of Chinese Medicine.

 

Charging is fine, but those who can't pay, don't turn away...lol

 

Then again, don't base your whole financial existence on medicine either. Save up for the rainy days,

or poor people, live less on the luxurious side of society, and utilize enough. Invest in loss and maintain that which nourishes just before excess.

 

ENJOY! hahaha

 

Peace,

Lin

 

 

Yes, when I applied to this college, I knew it was a lifestyle. I kept telling myself this. I knew I might be poor, but then I started to second guess myself. I visited the city and felt I couldn't fit in such a big city. The school seemed small. Then the costs hit me. The rent was about $1000/month or more. I started to think, I might be struggling to make ends meet and I would need the treatment, not others. How can I

help others when I'm in a boat thats barely floating?

 

I did a lot of thinking last night, and I think I will look into other schools. I've found some cheaper schools

and out of the big city.

 

Thanks for all the feedback.

[松永道]

Historically, Chinese medicine doctors became doctors through three routes of study. One, the master apprentice relationship. Two, through one's family lineage (often families would pass down secret techniques and medicinal formulas). And three, self study. Only in the past century has the fourth route, university study, become prominent.

 

If you're just interested in studying, first self study. Self study, then get to know some a Chinese doctor or a few and learn diagnostics and other techniques from them. Any good teacher loves to teach a bright, self motivated student.

[Dainin]

Dragonfire,

 

I've been considering making the same career move, and I'm a lot older than you, 46. In my case I have 19 years in a state pension plan, so it would difficult to give that up now. But my thoughts keep going back to it, so who knows. Last year I completed a course on medical qigong at an acupuncture school. Many of the other students were either acupuncture students from the school, or already practicing acupuncturists. It seemed like about half of the students in the acupuncture program were non-traditional, i.e. older students transitioning from other careers. Interacting with these folks, as well as my main qigong teacher who is also an acupuncturist, has inspired me to consider this career/life.

 

This school is the Academy for Five Element Acupuncture and is located in Gainesville, FL. They moved there recently from Hallandale, here in South Florida. The unique thing about it is that for the first 2 years of the program, classes meet for 2 week intensives only, like 4 or 5 a year (I think), so students don't need to reside there. The third year is clinical, so that is full-time and you would have to live there for a year. It's not that inexpensive though, about $48K for acupuncture and herbalism. The web site is http://www.acupuncturist.org/.

 

Another school that looked very appealing to me is the Arizona School of Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine, in Tucson. This school seems reasonably priced (about $40K) for acupuncture and herbs, and also includes a strong concentration in tuina bodywork, so you can get certified in that too. It even includes daily qigong and taiji practice in the curriculum. (http://www.asaom.edu) I wish you well on your journey.

[林愛偉]

Yes, when I applied to this college, I knew it was a lifestyle. I kept telling myself this. I knew I might be poor, but then I started to second guess myself. I visited the city and felt I couldn't fit in such a big city. The school seemed small. Then the costs hit me. The rent was about $1000/month or more. I started to think, I might be struggling to make ends meet and I would need the treatment, not others. How can I

help others when I'm in a boat thats barely floating?

 

I did a lot of thinking last night, and I think I will look into other schools. I've found some cheaper schools

and out of the big city.

 

Thanks for all the feedback.

 

 

I charge people to treat them, yet when I know their financial situation I make considerations like

buying their vitamins for them, or treating them for free once and a while.

 

I go to their homes, and though I do not have much rent to pay, I live as though I have lots of expenses; not buying what I think I might need, not going to places just for the sake of going, eating home, or buying food that is less expensive, and eating once or twice a day... helping people is a selfless lifestyle... of course one has to take care of oneself, so do so

 

And in the process try to make good considerations for those with financial difficulties. Difficult indeed, but a life worth living

[thedole]

 

I charge people to treat them, yet when I know their financial situation I make considerations like

buying their vitamins for them, or treating them for free once and a while.

 

I go to their homes, and though I do not have much rent to pay, I live as though I have lots of expenses; not buying what I think I might need, not going to places just for the sake of going, eating home, or buying food that is less expensive, and eating once or twice a day... helping people is a selfless lifestyle... of course one has to take care of oneself, so do so

 

And in the process try to make good considerations for those with financial difficulties. Difficult indeed, but a life worth living

You have a truly commendable attitude Lin! Someone on another forum in another context said

The key is to be complete in yourself. Then you can share what you've got with another.

I think this very much fits in here as well. But my fingers don't find a good way of explaining what I mean with that right now. As I have written and deleted that sentence over and over I'll just let it stand to be pondered. hehe

 

I bought a book on the fundamentals of chinese medicine a while back but I derailed and didn't get through it. Think it will be a lifelong self study this field for me, with droplets of wisdom trinkling in over time. Maybe I just need to get a bit more "complete" before I'm able to commit to it a little more.

[林愛偉]

You have a truly commendable attitude Lin! Someone on another forum in another context said I think this very much fits in here as well. But my fingers don't find a good way of explaining what I mean with that right now. As I have written and deleted that sentence over and over I'll just let it stand to be pondered. hehe

 

I bought a book on the fundamentals of chinese medicine a while back but I derailed and didn't get through it. Think it will be a lifelong self study this field for me, with droplets of wisdom trinkling in over time. Maybe I just need to get a bit more "complete" before I'm able to commit to it a little more.

 

 

Self study, humble attitude with it, and then there is a basic understanding required for the next step. Find a teacher, or go to a school, and one will succeed accordingly. A long path indeed, for Chinese medicine is itself cultivation, and its a life long cultivation indeed!

 

Dedicate patience, persistence and the outcome is favorable.

 

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin

[Baguakid]

Hi, I've been accepted to American College of Traditional Chinese Medicine but not sure

about attending anymore. I figure I would owe about 130K once I graduate. Its in

San Francisco. For those graduates out there or students, do you think it will be worth it?

I'm already 33 and not sure about spending another 10 years paying it off. I figure it would

be a conflict of patient care and my own desire to pay off the loans. Will I end up being

just more stressed because I can't afford to pay my loans.

 

I've spent the last 8 years as a software developer already and make 75K a year. I'm really

lost in terms of what to do. I want a career change, but its very expensive.

 

What should I do?

 

 

Have you thought about going to China to learn? Really. My friend is studying there now and it is costing him less than 10k I'm sure. You can work part time teaching English or just save and go. That's what I would do. The only problem I feel with learning TCM in China is they integrate a load of western medicine theory into the program. In China they are moving towards Western Medicine so everyone wants to study this. I've asked for TCM programs only and the school told me they can arrange that so it is possible. See the links on my links page for more info:

 

http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/china/shanghailinks.html

 

Shanghai TCM College.

http://www.shutcm.com/

http://www.shutcm.com/english/

 

 

Oh, btw, they do teach in English but the tuition is more.

 

xxxxxx

Edited October 27, 2008 by Baguakid

[Taoist81]

Have you thought about going to China to learn? Really. My friend is studying there now and it is costing him less than 10k I'm sure. You can work part time teaching English or just save and go. That's what I would do. The only problem I feel with learning TCM in China is they integrate a load of western medicine theory into the program. In China they are moving towards Western Medicine so everyone wants to study this. I've asked for TCM programs only and the school told me they can arrange that so it is possible. See the links on my links page for more info:

 

http://members.bigvalley.net/wuji/china/shanghailinks.html

 

Shanghai TCM College.

http://www.shutcm.com/

http://www.shutcm.com/english/

Oh, btw, they do teach in English but the tuition is more.

 

xxxxxx

 

If one is planning to practice in the US there may be complications with this. Many students at our school practiced in China (or other Asian countries) for years, decades in some cases. But they still had to go through school here because not all of their schooling in Asia was recognized.

[Baguakid]

If one is planning to practice in the US there may be complications with this. Many students at our school practiced in China (or other Asian countries) for years, decades in some cases. But they still had to go through school here because not all of their schooling in Asia was recognized.

 

 

Thanks for the reply Taoist81. I did check on this from one school in Arizona. After speaking to them they said it would be no problem to transfer credit from the school in Shanghai to their school.

 

Things are changing very rapidly. I would suggest the OP to check this out if there is interest on his end.

 

I would much rather study in China than the US. Even with me and martial arts the difference is huge.

[Wayfarer64]

Hi Pat

 

ask here: http://www.drtanshow.com/

 

they might have a Tan-trained practitioner in that area...

 

regards

 

Harry

 

Thanks Harry i'll send it on to her!-Pat

[Taoist81]

Thanks for the reply Taoist81. I did check on this from one school in Arizona. After speaking to them they said it would be no problem to transfer credit from the school in Shanghai to their school.

 

Things are changing very rapidly. I would suggest the OP to check this out if there is interest on his end.

 

I would much rather study in China than the US. Even with me and martial arts the difference is huge.

 

One note on this point. Many patients who come to our clinic tend to prefer the Western trained acupuncturists. Those trained in China or other Asian countries tend to cause more pain. Some of us prefer to learn both ways because experience shows that for some cases the "no pain, no gain" approach is the best, while in others the "make the patient as comfortable as possible" approach is best. One classmate went to study at the school in Shanghai and when she visited recently and demonstrated the methods she learned, the acupuncturists (US trained) that she demonstrated on compared it to "torture". On the other hand, some patients prefer Asian trained practitioners because they think they are more "authentic". So you gain and lose on both sides of the Pacific, but either way you have to pick up some hours at an American school to practice in America in most cases.

[Baguakid]

One note on this point. Many patients who come to our clinic tend to prefer the Western trained acupuncturists. Those trained in China or other Asian countries tend to cause more pain. Some of us prefer to learn both ways because experience shows that for some cases the "no pain, no gain" approach is the best, while in others the "make the patient as comfortable as possible" approach is best. One classmate went to study at the school in Shanghai and when she visited recently and demonstrated the methods she learned, the acupuncturists (US trained) that she demonstrated on compared it to "torture". On the other hand, some patients prefer Asian trained practitioners because they think they are more "authentic". So you gain and lose on both sides of the Pacific, but either way you have to pick up some hours at an American school to practice in America in most cases.

 

 

<smile> you're right. In China they expect a certain amount of intensity but in the states it's different. If you treat the ppl that way here you won't have too many patients. I would say it take an certain intellect and common sense to make the adjustments to the different cultures. Also, as I have had acupuncture and other modalities from many different Chinese TCM doctors, there are other modalities which could also be as effective as acupuncture or better. I know one guy in California that stress massage in combo with needling to get the job done. He is very skillful both in business and his art and never has a quiet moment in is work day. Busy Busy Busy. But, his tuina is deep tissue and it can feel as a suffering treatment rather than a relaxing one. Another Doctor is a Qigong master as well. He "charges" the needles with qi which can not even be felt going in, it's almost like they lay on the surface of the skin (from a feeling standpoint). Anyway, the point is to adjust your treatment techniques to your client base.

 

Now, regarding American Schools. It seems, and it's severely irritating, that these things become political in nature. That is, well you have to pay us some money before you can practice here. Even if you come from the mother-land, even if you've been a master acupuncturist for many years, etc. Even if you speak Chinese, and learn in China, you still cannot get away from paying us (whatever governing body) our money.

 

ughhh.

 

To the OP, 130k is retarded. There is no way in _ _ _ _ I would give them that amount of money. No way.

Edited October 27, 2008 by Baguakid

[Taoist81]

<smile> you're right. In China they expect a certain amount of intensity but in the states it's different. If you treat the ppl that way here you won't have too many patients. I would say it take an certain intellect and common sense to make the adjustments to the different cultures. Also, as I have had acupuncture and other modalities from many different Chinese TCM doctors, there are other modalities which could also be as effective as acupuncture or better. I know one guy in California that stress massage in combo with needling to get the job done. He is very skillful both in business and his art and never has a quiet moment in is work day. Busy Busy Busy. But, his tuina is deep tissue and it can feel as a suffering treatment rather than a relaxing one. Another Doctor is a Qigong master as well. He "charges" the needles with qi which can not even be felt going in, it's almost like they lay on the surface of the skin (from a feeling standpoint). Anyway, the point is to adjust your treatment techniques to your client base.

 

Now, regarding American Schools. It seems, and it's severely irritating, that these things become political in nature. That is, well you have to pay us some money before you can practice here. Even if you come from the mother-land, even if you've been a master acupuncturist for many years, etc. Even if you speak Chinese, and learn in China, you still cannot get away from paying us (whatever governing body) our money.

 

ughhh.

 

To the OP, 130k is retarded. There is no way in _ _ _ _ I would give them that amount of money. No way.

 

It does seem like it would be common sense, but even the founder of our school has had "traditionalists" from China (he is Chinese) that he is crazy for not doing ____ . But you are right, some people will go no matter how the treatment feels if they feel like it is helping, and if you sell yourself well (something most "healers" are uncomfortable with) your business will do well and you will be able to help more people.

As for politics....the schools are only half of it. The national board is highly political. And it does seem off that an MD can come in from another country take the exams and be licensed, do surgery etc., but an acupuncturist has to go to school even if they have practiced for 30 years. Of course, CNT is quite different here, but still....

[Baguakid]

It does seem like it would be common sense, but even the founder of our school has had "traditionalists" from China (he is Chinese) that he is crazy for not doing ____ . But you are right, some people will go no matter how the treatment feels if they feel like it is helping, and if you sell yourself well (something most "healers" are uncomfortable with) your business will do well and you will be able to help more people.

As for politics....the schools are only half of it. The national board is highly political. And it does seem off that an MD can come in from another country take the exams and be licensed, do surgery etc., but an acupuncturist has to go to school even if they have practiced for 30 years. Of course, CNT is quite different here, but still....

 

 

I remember a story my friend told me when he was doing his advanced study in Shanghai (he already graduated here in the states). He said there was a woman in his class that was doing acupuncture on a patient. She starts up high in the air with the needle and drops it down like a bomb in the air. My friend's thinking "this woman has no business being in this business" but there she was, doing advanced study in Shanghai. Somebody passed her, she passed the state or national board and there she was.

 

I've always wanted to study TCM "professionally" but never had the right conditions, now I'm nearly 50 and the window is closing. But, having lived in Shanghai for nearly 2 years I wouldn't think twice about going to China to study. Especially since the OP makes the kind of money he does. He just needs to save for a year or less, sell or store his stuff and go. I wouldn't look back. Living in China is great.

[dragonfire]

I remember a story my friend told me when he was doing his advanced study in Shanghai (he already graduated here in the states). He said there was a woman in his class that was doing acupuncture on a patient. She starts up high in the air with the needle and drops it down like a bomb in the air. My friend's thinking "this woman has no business being in this business" but there she was, doing advanced study in Shanghai. Somebody passed her, she passed the state or national board and there she was.

 

I've always wanted to study TCM "professionally" but never had the right conditions, now I'm nearly 50 and the window is closing. But, having lived in Shanghai for nearly 2 years I wouldn't think twice about going to China to study. Especially since the OP makes the kind of money he does. He just needs to save for a year or less, sell or store his stuff and go. I wouldn't look back. Living in China is great.

 

I thought about china, but Im not sure the schools are approved in USA. I plan on practicing in the US, so its important I can get licensed here. I have found a school in Southern Cal. I just applied so hopefully I'll be there in no time. I figure if it doesn't work out, I still can get back into computers. I think it will pay off in the end though. Its a noble career. Not just about getting rich. When I die, I'll have a good answer when asked what have you done for others or that is good.

 

I agree sticking needles into people needs to be as painless as possible. However, pain sometimes can trigger

changes in the bodies itself. Pain tells the body that something is wrong and it needs to fight the battle and start the healing process.