Energy Healing and Self-Protection

[Stigweard]

[fiveelementtao]

5eltao,

 

Take raw food... my mother is put out of commission for a month if she eats anything raw, and has been like that for most of her life. Long as she doesn't, she's fine.

 

My brother is the same way. As long as he is eating pure grease and cheese and garbage, he can function OK But he is getting more and more sick as he gets older and is on alot of meds for various "conditions". But he is "allergic" to veggies especially raw ones... I was taught (this may not necessarily be "Taoist") that there is a difference between prevention and cure. as a prevention, I was taught to eat raw veggies to maintain health. In terms of cure, during extreme cleansing (illness), raw foods should be introduced slowly so they don't trigger a massive cleansing crisis. Raw food tends to exacerbate any cleansing (illness) that is occurring. for some that is why raw veggies make them feel ill or can temporarily make their conditions worse. because it will stimulate the body to cleanse and for those who do not regularly eat raw foods, this can stimulate extreme cleansing.. so, in their normal state, they may feel OK, but its just that their toxins are neatly tucked away.

 

About two ways to practice tao... I dunno, you can go either way, neither way is wrong if you know what you're doing.

I agree there is no right or wrong, I see it as personal choice. Edited October 30, 2008 by fiveelementtao

[Taomeow]

My brother is the same way. As long as he is eating pure grease and cheese and garbage, he can function OK But he is getting more and more sick as he gets older and is on alot of meds for various "conditions". But he is "allergic" to veggies especially raw ones... I was taught (this may not necessarily be "Taoist") that there is a difference between prevention and cure. as a prevention, I was taught to eat raw veggies to maintain health. In terms of cure, during extreme cleansing (illness), raw foods should be introduced slowly so they don't trigger a massive cleansing crisis. Raw food tends to exacerbate any cleansing (illness) that is occurring. for some that is why raw veggies make them feel ill or can temporarily make their conditions worse. because it will stimulate the body to cleanse and for those who do not regularly eat raw foods, this can stimulate extreme cleansing.. so, in their normal state, they may feel OK, but its just that their toxins are neatly tucked away.

 

I agree there is no right or wrong, I see it as personal choice.

I know the theory, but it presupposes everybody is the same... My mother grew up in a village hundreds of miles away from the nearest sources of pollution, with water from a natural spring, with food grown in the family plot of land, with no chance to "overeat" -- every potato counted -- but with no danger of malnutrition either. She milked her goat before school for her morning breakfast. (Of course they also grew their own tobacco and she was introduced to smoking when she was 8, but that's another story.) Then, when she was an adult, a doctor prescribed a course of antibiotics for "prevention" (someone at her work place got dysentery and they "treated" everybody). She could never eat raw foods ever again. She knew that it was because of all her beneficial intestinal flora having been destroyed, and went to considerable lengths to reintroduce it. It never happened -- something that the antibiotic did to the intestinal lining made it impossible for any beneficial critters to take residence there again. After years of much struggle and medical attention and diets and cleanses and what not, she just had to come to terms with the fact that she can't digest anything raw anymore, period. She loves raw fruits and vegetables and misses them always, and occasionally experiments -- she'll take a tiny bit of this or that... and a month of stomachaches and other problems is guaranteed. Nothing to do with a "cleansing reaction."

 

Where I come from they used to have (and train MDs in) some 30 different diets for different health problems, and one of them was a raw food diet for a "cleanse." Anyway... this is the argument I've been avoiding for so long, the nutritional one, might as well keep up the good work and shut up. I've been nutritionally trained elsewhere and what passes for healthy nutrition here-now is going to fail to impress me every time... in any event, I am not going to convince a true believer and besides, I don't really want to argue with you, I like you!

Edited October 30, 2008 by Taomeow

[Stigweard]

Where I come from they used to have (and train MDs in) some 30 different diets for different health problems, and one of them was a raw food diet for a "cleanse." Anyway... this is the argument I've been avoiding for so long, the nutritional one, might as well keep up the good work and shut up. I've been nutritionally trained elsewhere and what passes for healthy nutrition here-now is going to fail to impress me every time... in any event, I am not going to convince a true believer and besides, I don't really want to argue with you, I like you!

 

 

So what is your take on healthy nutrition? I would honestly love to hear your perspective.

 

[gossamer]

Dear Stigweard,

 

Look, I came here for HELP, and I'll work on my attitude.

 

Not because you were a bit rough with me, but because it's the Dao Way to handle this.

 

If you'd like to still speak to me, that's cool.

 

And (to a certain degree) I appreciate your honesty.

 

Far better THAT, then lying to me, and it making things WORSE.

 

Anyway, thanks.

 

 

Peace, gossamer

Edited October 30, 2008 by gossamer

[mYTHmAKER]

I know the theory, but it presupposes everybody is the same... My mother grew up in a village hundreds of miles away from the nearest sources of pollution, with water from a natural spring, with food grown in the family plot of land, with no chance to "overeat" -- every potato counted -- but with no danger of malnutrition either. She milked her goat before school for her morning breakfast. (Of course they also grew their own tobacco and she was introduced to smoking when she was 8, but that's another story.) Then, when she was an adult, a doctor prescribed a course of antibiotics for "prevention" (someone at her work place got dysentery and they "treated" everybody). She could never eat raw foods ever again. She knew that it was because of all her beneficial intestinal flora having been destroyed, and went to considerable lengths to reintroduce it. It never happened -- something that the antibiotic did to the intestinal lining made it impossible for any beneficial critters to take residence there again. After years of much struggle and medical attention and diets and cleanses and what not, she just had to come to terms with the fact that she can't digest anything raw anymore, period. She loves raw fruits and vegetables and misses them always, and occasionally experiments -- she'll take a tiny bit of this or that... and a month of stomachaches and other problems is guaranteed. Nothing to do with a "cleansing reaction."

 

Your mother started out like everyone else.

It was the antibiotics that limited her eating raw foods.

Modern medicine has a habit of doing this.

I believe we are all designed to eat certain foods.

What happens along the way is another story.

Say hello to your mother for me.

[fiveelementtao]

I know the theory, but it presupposes everybody is the same... My mother grew up in a village hundreds of miles away from the nearest sources of pollution, with water from a natural spring, with food grown in the family plot of land, with no chance to "overeat" -- every potato counted -- but with no danger of malnutrition either. She milked her goat before school for her morning breakfast. (Of course they also grew their own tobacco and she was introduced to smoking when she was 8, but that's another story.) Then, when she was an adult, a doctor prescribed a course of antibiotics for "prevention" (someone at her work place got dysentery and they "treated" everybody). She could never eat raw foods ever again. She knew that it was because of all her beneficial intestinal flora having been destroyed, and went to considerable lengths to reintroduce it. It never happened -- something that the antibiotic did to the intestinal lining made it impossible for any beneficial critters to take residence there again. After years of much struggle and medical attention and diets and cleanses and what not, she just had to come to terms with the fact that she can't digest anything raw anymore, period. She loves raw fruits and vegetables and misses them always, and occasionally experiments -- she'll take a tiny bit of this or that... and a month of stomachaches and other problems is guaranteed. Nothing to do with a "cleansing reaction."

 

Where I come from they used to have (and train MDs in) some 30 different diets for different health problems, and one of them was a raw food diet for a "cleanse." Anyway... this is the argument I've been avoiding for so long, the nutritional one, might as well keep up the good work and shut up. I've been nutritionally trained elsewhere and what passes for healthy nutrition here-now is going to fail to impress me every time... in any event, I am not going to convince a true believer and besides, I don't really want to argue with you, I like you!

I posted a reply but it disappeared.... No arguing at all. Just exchanging views. Now that you have explained it, I can see why your mother has difficulty with raw foods. Interesting how the the discussion has come back around to antibiotics.. (thank you Mr Pasteur). I knew that antibiotics can be harmful if overused but I had not idea that it could do that... I heard on a radio show a research Dr. who was saying that recent discoveries have indicated that we have more helpful bacteria in our bodies than cells! He even went so far as to say that asthma may be linked to a reduction of a certain helpful bacteria that has been increasingly missing in humans since the 1920's... He even insinuated that it's good for kids to play in the dirt and even eat it..... That's not what my Mom taught me....

[gendao]

Then, when she was an adult, a doctor prescribed a course of antibiotics for "prevention" (someone at her work place got dysentery and they "treated" everybody). She could never eat raw foods ever again. She knew that it was because of all her beneficial intestinal flora having been destroyed, and went to considerable lengths to reintroduce it. It never happened -- something that the antibiotic did to the intestinal lining made it impossible for any beneficial critters to take residence there again. After years of much struggle and medical attention and diets and cleanses and what not, she just had to come to terms with the fact that she can't digest anything raw anymore, period. She loves raw fruits and vegetables and misses them always, and occasionally experiments -- she'll take a tiny bit of this or that... and a month of stomachaches and other problems is guaranteed. Nothing to do with a "cleansing reaction."

Well, it may be hard to reintroduce probiotics orally - since many will get nuked in our stomach acid before reaching our guts.

 

So, a few other options here include:

 

Baby poo enemas:

What are the best probiotics? The best probiotics are found inside the feces from a very healthy, (best unvaccinated), breastfed baby. You find anyone who has a 3 - 18 months old breastfed baby. You take diapers with fresh feces. Color of feces must be yellow, it must not be green, cause green color of feces indicates lack of good bowel bacteria. (Unless child was drinking freshly pressed wheat grass juice, or some other food of strong green color, green color of feces always indicates lack of good bowel bacteria. Yellow (or yellow-brown if child has eaten meat) color indicates healthy feces.) You need fresh feces (not older then 12 hours). You can refrigerate diapers with fresh feces, and use it the next day, but the best is if you can get a hold of fresh diapers.

You mix fresh feces with enema water (you can also filter it before use, of baby has eaten other foods then mother milk.) You use that water as the last enema water, when doing enema. Once you get that water inside of you, you try to keep it there as long as possible.

Prebiotics:

Prebiotics are not bacteria; they are food for friendly bacteria. The best-known of these are fructooligosaccharides (FOS), a class of sugars that are indigestible by humans. FOS are derived from edible plants like Jerusalem artichokes and soybeans.

 

The study analysed levels of friendly bacteria in stool samples of subjects before and after a probiotic or prebiotic diet. They found evidence that a probiotic-rich diet did not increase friendly bacteria levels very much. However, there was evidence to show that maintaining a pre-biotic diet did increase the levels of friendly bacteria.

"Super" probiotics like Sustenex that can be taken orally, yet survive to the gut.

probiotic bacteria in Sustenex are protected by a hardened layer of organic material, which ensures its survival in significant numbers to reach the digestive tract where it can have the greatest health benefit

[三江源]

He even insinuated that it's good for kids to play in the dirt and even eat it..... That's not what my Mom taught me....

 

My mother used to quote an old saying "we all have to eat a peck of dirt before we die" at us when we were children.

 

 

(A 'peck', by the way, is 8 quarts..)

 

She never did care much for housework... I think it must be a genetic trait that she passed onto me.

[mYTHmAKER]

My mother used to quote an old saying "we all have to eat a peck of dirt before we die" at us when we were children.

(A 'peck', by the way, is 8 quarts..)

 

She never did care much for housework... I think it must be a genetic trait that she passed onto me.

 

Yeah I heard it as a pound of dirt.

[dwai]

My teacher tells me that with time (and practice), the vibrational frequency of one's energy goes up and we will stop picking up most of the negative influences out there. One has to be careful not to connect with the negative energy nonetheless.

 

But that is when you are not healing. When you are healing, how can you not connect?

 

I must ask him.

[kunlunountains]

松永道',

 

When we give good food in return for rotten or moldy food, we need to do the dishes. When we study Qigong healing, its like cooking, our first dish is not Peking Duck but something more like

gai lan(a simple vegetable dish) In other words, until we have developed enough 'Wok Qi', it would be safer to not have any dinner guests. Though some practioners believe that we do not take on negative Qi while providing treatments, most healing disciplines believe we do. With that in mind, not only do you need a well charged battery to start treatments but also a clear method that helps ' wash up' after the treatment has been completed. This energetic shower should be done just after the treatment has been completed and thus greatly decreases the practitioner's susceptability to stress or illness, namely that of the patient. In my experience, the simplest method is ma bu zhuang. However when in doubt, the best person to ask is your Sifu.

 

 

As time allows, stand for a while and all will become clear

 

Best regards

Kunlun shan

Good conclusion.

 

When I first starting doing Qigong, I did healing stuff right away because I discovered I could and no-one told me I shouldn't. I loved the high I could give folks and started doing it frequently. On one trip to visit many friends in New York I did it all day long for days in a row. From the first experience I noticed giving a non-contact qi massage made me very thirsty and a bit tired, but spiritually energized. Many in a row, day after day, and I started getting sick. Finally, one day I decided to work on a friend who I suspected had some pretty gnarly qi issues and paid the price for it.

 

After that I stopped doing qi massages and months later took a Swedish massage. But eventually I started running into the same run down, sickness issues again. So I asked around, "how can I protect myself?" One teacher told me to visualize a auric shield. Another said take epsom salt baths. So many solutions, but none of them really sat well.

 

Finally, I went to our dean of the Chinese medicine department at the time, Heiner Fruehauf, and explained my predicament. To paraphrase he said, "a cow poops on the earth and the next day a flower grows out." Waste, illness, evil Qi is in the eye of the beholder. This is the beauty of Qi's true meaning. Everything is Qi. All Qi in different forms and frequencies. And it's all capable of transformation. In fact, Qi never stops transforming. So what's evil Qi? Is it shit or fertilizer?

Edited October 31, 2008 by kunlunountains

[Wayfarer64]

This is a very interesting thread- it goes all over the place -

1st-

On Bali almost all children from all castes are not put on the ground for the first 10-12 months of life- this is a deeply held spiritual(cleanlyness) issue as in some Hebrew proscibed behaviors.. But it is a pretty good idea in many environments! what does not kill you may make you stronger -but why subject infants to the bad odds of dirt/bacteria if you don'y have to?

 

2nd-

The issue of absorbing bad or sick vibes from others is pretty damn real in my experience - I have been deeply involved with a very sick person(s) a few times in my life and did my best to ease their discomforts and help them to feel better as I was able -it was always very draining and I needed some serious time to walk-it off in the woods or at the shore to get mtself back to feeling ok myself-

 

3rd-

I missed why there is an issue here about ill-will towards oneanother - but on a healing thread I agree it may be an issue that can be addressed as an illness would be...

 

stay well out there !!!

[gossamer]

I'll show you WHY:

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/Another-One-On-M...fare-t7127.html

 

It's on page 6 (six) here at 'Tao Bums Forums'.

 

Peace, gossamer (Who is 57 years old, TODAY! :-)

 

 

 

 

 

I missed why there is an issue here about ill-will towards oneanother - but on a healing thread I agree it may be an issue that can be addressed as an illness would be...

[Wayfarer64]

I'll show you WHY:

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/Another-One-On-M...fare-t7127.html

 

It's on page 6 (six) here at 'Tao Bums Forums'.

 

Peace, gossamer (Who is 57 years old, TODAY! :-)

I missed why there is an issue here about ill-will towards oneanother - but on a healing thread I agree it may be an issue that can be addressed as an illness would be...

 

 

well it seems pretty complicated from what I read - as Richard Farinia wrote -beware of the Monkey-demon!

 

Happy birthday anyway- try to focus on just being "above" the situation -not ignore it maybe just transcending the situation as it were -then kick some ass if that don't work!-approaches vary day to day in most relationships good & bad... peace out-Pat

[Starjumper]

Bumping this one up for later.

[Ya Mu]

A lot of thoughtful replies.

 

Here are some of my thoughts and observations from having practiced Taoist Medicine and Medical Qigong for over 25 years.

 

I practice the Warrior's Shield as laid out in this book.

 

S.H.I.E.L.D.

 

S. Shielding. No matter what a person wants to believe, sick qi exists. I have seen a whole lot of "energy healers" who either don't believe that it exists or believe that, because they believe it won't hurt them it won't hurt them. Most of these energy healers were sick from sick qi kickback. In other words it simply is, and no matter how much you believe that you will not be affected by it makes no difference to the fact that it exists. For several of those that say "but I do energy healing and it doesn't hurt me" I would suggest that perhaps you simply do not have enough qi and INTENT to displace the sick qi out of the patient's body OR you are young and vibrant and it hasn't caught up to you yet. To those that project qi daily for an hour to each patient, seeing over 8 folks daily, and with 100% result rate and are over 70 years of age in excellent health and KNOW that sick qi does not effect you, can I study with you?

 

H. Ask for help. Prayer is casting of INTENT. Always appropriate. Scientific observation has observed that non-denominational prayer works better that emotional or fanatical prayer. Yes, Higher Level beings of Light do exist.

 

I. INTENT - That through which manifestation occurs utilizing energy. A quantum level event.

 

E. Energy - If you do not practice energy cultivation simply do not attempt to heal others. So many "energy healers" are hurting themselves as well as potentially hurting others by attempting to do energy healing without cultivation. DON"T DO IT!

 

L. Listening leading to Linking. When in a total "qi state" we can know what to do for our patient. Listening starts first and, with MUCH practice, Linking.

 

D. Detachment - Never be attached to the outcome. If you remain attached to the outcome then the patient you worked on will continue to drain your energy.

 

I also believe that no one, not even an experienced qi cultivator should do energy healing unless they feel called to do so. This is serious work that really has no place for someone that simply wishes to dabble in it.

 

At least these thoughts are my understanding today; tomorrow I may change my mind.

[wudangquan]

I think you have to make sure you're right and the reasons you're doing what you're doing are right, and then you'll basically be ok.

 

I am not involved with energetic healing, because . . . you know. I think there are karmic issues involved that you can't casually interupt.

 

That being said, there are definitely people who are developed enough to do it (probably 1% of the people who are? haha) - I'm just not one of them.

 

I like this phrase to explain it, and why a lot of the protection rituals, etc. are not really the answer:

 

"One upright mind can put down a thousand evils"

 

If this kind of work is coming from a position of pure benevelonce, and from someone with legitimate attainment - it's no problem I think.

 

But how many people can say that they are doing this from a purely benevolent position? Have they really examined themselves? Are they sure it's not for fame, or reputation, or some other personal gain?

Edited November 7, 2008 by wudangquan

[Starjumper]

Master Ni, Hua-Ching provides a simple protection (see below) in "The Gentle Path of Spiritual Progress".

 

"In the room where you treat patients or accept visitors, there should also be a spiritual altar with the following ten Chinese characters hung high on the wall." Ni, Hua Ching.

 

 

Could someone translate that into English please, thanks.

 

However, in my humble opinion, the greatest shield a sage can have is the fullness of their own virtuous accomplishment. Then...

 

"The mighty horns of the rhinoceros,

the powerful claws of the tiger,

the sharp blades of weapons,

find nowhere to pierce him."

 

These are not just idealistic words, the truth of their energy manifestation is a living reality.

 

I have pondered this before and it seems to me that it is very high levels of synchronicity and psychic ability that produce this level of protection, and these abilities go hand in hand with having cultivated high levels of Te, which comes from having cultivated high levels of clarity. =)

 

However it seems to me that doesn't apply to energy healing, so how do you relate what is said in that chapter to energy healing.

 

The way I look at it for myself is that I try to be transparent. I let the winds of fate blow right through me (I try =) and have no desire for shielding. I place my faith in the void. It is easy to have faith in a god or some such, but to have faith in 'whatever it is' requires a leap, or falling, into the abyss. As the winds of fate blow me about I yield and drift with them, not desiring that it be different, accepting. If something evil comes at me I just let it go right through and hopefully past me, giving it nothing to cling to.

 

So much for philosophy. That doesn't apply to energy healing either. Some people speak of good or bad but I don't look for good or bad in things, only sick or healthy. It appears that people who do the shamanic healing are safe but perhaps not if they also cultivate chi. In my tradition we use our energy and therefore there is a reverse effectiveness ratio. You can build up high levels of power but it can be depleted. Therefore if you save it and only do healing work occasionally then you can give it a lot of power and it can be completely effective. If you do it too much you will get depleted and then effectiveness will be slight.

 

Sick energy. My teacher taught in terms of sick energy, not good or bad. He could tell if we had any sick energy in our bodies because he could feel it. If he did healing work on someone it took him three days to get rid of the sick energy he picked up, and remember, he is one of the most powerful chi kung masters in the world. If someone this advanced can't protect himself from picking up sick energy then I don't think any chi healer can. I think the difference is that he is so clean and so sensitive that he can feel microscopic amounts of sick chi while those who say they don't get sick chi from others simply aren't sensitive enough or haven't been trained to feel it. Making positive 'belief' statements about not getting sick energy seems to me to be a self fooling technique, which I'm good at too =) (I mean good at fooling myself, not making positive statements )

 

There is one way my teacher told me about that chi healers have used to protect themselves from sick chi and that is by doing the healing work with the patient and the healer(s) on different sides of a wall. The healer has enough power to project energy through the wall (we train for this) but the sick chi isn't strong enough to get back through the wall.

[Starjumper]

Here's a story about spiritual energy work and demons. I've been thinking about demons lately.

 

Once upon a time, say about fifteen years ago at a Buddhist seminar, a nice American Ninja master met a nice lady who was very effective at ritual magic. He gave her some energy and later that evening she started to have a kundalini experience. I know this type of thing happens because often when I give some one energy they will feel it go to their head. Anyway, this lady felt the energy start to work it's way up her back and it had various nice effects including greatly aiding her posture and she said she got over an inch taller. After the energy had risen to or near her head she said she became aware that she had picked up one of the guy's demons. I can't recall but I think it was something about wolves. She was pissed about that, but then she appeared to be usually pissed about just about anything, so she stopped the process and therefore had a failed kundalini experience.

 

So here's a question for you all, including you kunlun ones, would you have stayed with it or stopped it?

[Stigweard]

Could someone translate that into English please, thanks.

 

"The Highest Divinity of Universal Response"

[Starjumper]

"The Highest Divinity of Universal Response"

 

 

OK, great, now could you explain what that means and how it applies to energy healing and protection?

[Stigweard]

OK, great, now could you explain what that means and how it applies to energy healing and protection?

 

I will admit the truth of "how it applies to energy healing and protection" is beyond my full comprehension and thus I won't even attempt a conclusive explanation. My 'theory' is that, if you believe written invocations can transmit or emanate energy, then this invocation acts as a 'beacon' of sorts that emanates and attracts divine, heavenly Qi and thus keeps harmful 'sick' Qi from effecting those in its presence. But again this is only a theory based on my limited understanding.

[Stigweard]

A lot of thoughtful replies.

 

Here are some of my thoughts and observations from having practiced Taoist Medicine and Medical Qigong for over 25 years.

 

I practice the Warrior's Shield as laid out in this book.

 

S.H.I.E.L.D.

 

S. Shielding. No matter what a person wants to believe, sick qi exists. I have seen a whole lot of "energy healers" who either don't believe that it exists or believe that, because they believe it won't hurt them it won't hurt them. Most of these energy healers were sick from sick qi kickback. In other words it simply is, and no matter how much you believe that you will not be affected by it makes no difference to the fact that it exists. For several of those that say "but I do energy healing and it doesn't hurt me" I would suggest that perhaps you simply do not have enough qi and INTENT to displace the sick qi out of the patient's body OR you are young and vibrant and it hasn't caught up to you yet. To those that project qi daily for an hour to each patient, seeing over 8 folks daily, and with 100% result rate and are over 70 years of age in excellent health and KNOW that sick qi does not effect you, can I study with you?

 

H. Ask for help. Prayer is casting of INTENT. Always appropriate. Scientific observation has observed that non-denominational prayer works better that emotional or fanatical prayer. Yes, Higher Level beings of Light do exist.

 

I. INTENT - That through which manifestation occurs utilizing energy. A quantum level event.

 

E. Energy - If you do not practice energy cultivation simply do not attempt to heal others. So many "energy healers" are hurting themselves as well as potentially hurting others by attempting to do energy healing without cultivation. DON"T DO IT!

 

L. Listening leading to Linking. When in a total "qi state" we can know what to do for our patient. Listening starts first and, with MUCH practice, Linking.

 

D. Detachment - Never be attached to the outcome. If you remain attached to the outcome then the patient you worked on will continue to drain your energy.

 

I also believe that no one, not even an experienced qi cultivator should do energy healing unless they feel called to do so. This is serious work that really has no place for someone that simply wishes to dabble in it.

 

At least these thoughts are my understanding today; tomorrow I may change my mind.

 

 

This seems appropriate to revise at this time.