Ayuhasca?

[JustARandomPanda]

I've heard this herb is supposedly the most potent mind-altering substance yet known (and is used by South American shamans for their visits to spirit realms). I assume that includes the psyche drugs like LSD, etc. Has anyone here ever used it?

 

How is a vision quest/spirit quest/whatever different after taking it than one induced from say...drumming?

 

Are there any places where one can obtain samples of this herb legally?

Edited October 29, 2008 by SereneBlue

[h.uriahr]

I've heard this herb is supposedly the most potent mind-altering substance yet known (and is used by South American shamans for their visits to spirit realms). I assume that includes the psyche drugs like LSD, etc. Has anyone here ever used it?

 

How is a vision quest/spirit quest/whatever different after taking it than one induced from say...drumming?

 

Are there any places where one can obtain samples of this herb legally?

 

The laws are strange. You can check out this site though

 

 

http://www.shamanic-extracts.com/

 

You can buy kits to make a tea or you I have another site you can check out that shows you how make it so you can smoke it.

 

It's perfectly legal to ship and actually have the plants and ingredients but it's illegal as hell to consume.

[mwight]

The laws are strange. You can check out this site though

http://www.shamanic-extracts.com/

 

You can buy kits to make a tea or you I have another site you can check out that shows you how make it so you can smoke it.

 

It's perfectly legal to ship and actually have the plants and ingredients but it's illegal as hell to consume.

 

 

Looks like this should be a first amendment issue to me... How is it illegal to practice shamanism?

[shontonga]

I've heard this herb is supposedly the most potent mind-altering substance yet known (and is used by South American shamans for their visits to spirit realms). I assume that includes the psyche drugs like LSD, etc. Has anyone here ever used it?

 

How is a vision quest/spirit quest/whatever different after taking it than one induced from say...drumming?

 

Are there any places where one can obtain samples of this herb legally?

 

 

LOL,

Open up a taoist page to read about a South American "Herb" ???

DUDE!?!

Just hit me funny.

 

How are you Serene Blue?

Nice to meet you!

 

There are plants on every continent that can be used in such ways.

To understand though, in Shamanism, it is not the plant you are working with.

It is the Spirit. You know it as you know you mother, brother, neighbor.

 

You Don't just go up and kiss a random person, lol,

well some may but they are apt to get

slapped/kneed in tender places/or kissed back unexpectedly!!!

Just as in meeting a person, you are introduced, you shake hands so to say!

Some you maybe inclined to "kiss" a bit faster than others

Some you may have to work with for many, Many years before you would ever dare.

Some you may never and be thankful for it! Hahahaa!

 

And as with a child folks are usually introduced to such things by someone they trust.

A Parent/teacher usually shows and teaches how to work with the "plants" Spirits.

They learn from an early age how to be respectful.

How to be humble and sincere.

If it is an act, one gets knocked on there ass.

Usually harder each time it seems!

 

For those who see energy it's easy to see if someone has taken/worked with Ayuhasca(spelling?).

It's obvious. Unmistakable in how they "look"/"feel". It changes them.

There eyes are very telling. Everything about them is very telling.

The changes are permanent usually, lots of times they still don't know it though,

they don't realize it, can't see it. Have been around very very many.

Don't ingest such myself. Do work with many things though but not like that if i can help it.

But I am sure that ingestion is never really needed if one knows how to work with them.

Others may say different . There are things not necessary to me? Minds change though too.

For one thing am one of those folks who would rather literally die than throw up!!! True!

So won't do it!!!! BLAAAA!!!!

 

In The U.S.A. It is Illegal.

They can come in and basically take all you own not just the plant.

Yes. You can look it up. If it were Native American religious stuff

and one has the papers to prove they are native themself , who knows???

Still it's Not a native american "religious thing" not like peyote is/was. Laws get weird.

Shamanism isn't usually an advertised thing by those who practice it! It's life.

Why bring more attention to oneself ! One derogatory name that's used for folks who do is "plastic indians".

Considered a very bad thing to do. (and don't say that to anyone unless you want to fight:) )

 

There are still groups that do use it though and places one could go.

There's a bit of stuff around the east coast so must be else where also!

or one could go with a group to Peru or some such.

LOL, Shoot, I know of folks that do tours. Won't say who they are though.

Find someone you TRUST if U do such a thing. Have to know your self well.

I would not recommend it... but that's because of my own beliefs and experiences in this life.

Am giving you a very biased opinion.

Your life is yours to experience as u see fit my friend.

Treasure it .

 

Ayuhasca is never worked with by it's self, it always has a companion.

At times more than one.

By those who Know it it is not compared with altered chemicals

only with other "natural" substances usually.

 

LOL, Vision quests are done over a period of a year or more,

living a "clean" life, usually with someone who is your sponsor present in your days.

Knowing if, when, and how, you mess up. And helping you learn to correct it.

and they don't "stop" after the quest. (The effects of this plant don't either.)

Before doing one there are other cleansing things that are done (i.e. fasting or Sweat lodge are just one.)

Most who are working in such ways are not looking for a quick fix, it is a way of life.

It is LIFE...

Only

 

*LIFE*

 

Most "Altered" States can be reached with No more needed than your own body.

They aren't something to be chased after and caught like many think and attempt.

Others on this page may have more techniques or ways to offer.

 

Be careful in your searches, know yourself well, always listen pay attention.

 

NOTHING IS ABSOLUTE.

 

If working in such a way always greet the one your working with respectfully

and depart the same way. As you would an old grandmother/father you love and cherish.

No matter the results you think you see. Be respectful, honest, direct, lovingly strong.

 

The start and end should be clearly defined.

 

Have a lot more to say, but always do!

This should be good as an introduction to it a little?

 

Stay well, Stay safe,

Shon

 

There is a man who is an artist here in the U.S.A.?

Don't recall his name. Has got books of his paintings out there readily available.

The place is called "The Hall Of Mirrors" or something like that.

Think it may be in an old church in New York.

He has Life size paintings your meant to stand in front of,

like a mirror.

It is supposed to be the equivalent of a energetic transmission,

The "drugs" with out the side effects,lol!

Might be good to look into.

Told it can be creepy to some folks, told by others that it is the most

meraciously profound thing they've ever seen or felt.

Lots of storys have been told to me about them though I've not seen them in person.

I don't know ?

but his work is interestingly accurate in some of what it depicts.

Some He could only know by "seeing" it in order to paint it,

not stuff most know about even if they "see" energy.

 

Good luck.

[h.uriahr]

Edited October 30, 2008 by MPWay

[wudangquan]

You can go to your local flower and garden shop and buy San Pedro cactus and extract the mescaline from that.

 

It's definitely illegal to possess or ingest the extract, but the plant is sold right in the open, and that's what most people are using it for, probably.

 

I am pretty sure you can still legally mail order or grow Salvia in most Western countries, as well.

 

Or you can buy a grow kit for mushrooms (the psilocybe cubensi variety, not the anamita muscara).

 

All of that pales in comparison to dmt, though IMHO.

 

You can extract it from many different types of plants with a pretty simple set up, although I've never tried it.

 

There's a lab in Wuhan (6 hours by train from here) that sells the straight dmt crystals. The white ones, not the yellow ones.

 

I don't do it often, but I've done it with 2 different priests here.

 

This stuff can pretty easily become a crutch though, or it can become a catalyst to develop new attachments in my own experience.

 

Like people say . . . States can be induced but levels have to be earned.

 

Higher state access and exposure does help catalyze some things though and the longer you're in those states the easier it is to achieve them through real cultivation.

 

It probably goes without saying that none of this stuff is for recreational/party use.

 

I've done DMT 6 times in my life. Did an entire summer on mushrooms in Florida when I found a good cow field at around 19 years old.

 

Dropped acid the first time in middle school after reading a bunch of books about it. My intention was to experience more open states of awareness, rather than "get f'd up" though.

 

I sat in the public library from open til close and being surrounded by all of those books, and knowledge, and information - It was a real Charlie Gordon experience.

 

But I'm not advocating widespread use of those things, or use often. Most people aren't ready to use them right, and very few people will probably "get" what they could from it.

 

An example for me (Caveat: For me, not for you or for anyone else and I'm not saying it's this way for anyone but me) was eating a load of mushrooms I found in Stone Forest in Yunnan.

 

And realizing that semen retention wasn't doing me any good. Or not much good, as I still had lust. (for me) the physical, gross, conditioined jism isn't what's turned into energy, but it's that (conditioned) attachments to lust are an inhibitor or a constraint on natural energy.

 

Eliminating lust has been much more difficult than retaining baby batter, for me.

Edited October 30, 2008 by wudangquan

[minkus]

Carefull with the vine of spirits, besides that its very strong its also hard to brew in small quantity. Besides the 2 main ingredients theres about a dozen of extra plants you can add to change the effect. Having someone around with experience is preferable.

 

Cheers !

Edited October 30, 2008 by minkus

[h.uriahr]

Carefull with the vine of spirits, besides that its very strong its also hard to brew in small quantity. Besides the 2 main ingredients theres about a dozen of extra plants you can add to change the effect. Having someone around with experience is preferable.

 

Cheers !

 

 

Quantity isnt a problem because the site I posted has one person tea kits with very easy to follow instructions. So easy a caveman can do it.

[Aetherous]

So easy a caveman can do it.

 

And what's THAT supposed to mean???

 

[gossamer]

I remember something that 'Lame Deer' said: "The BEST VISIONS come from YOUR OWN JUICES!"

 

Just a thought from someone who has been there, and done that thing, that you are interested in.

 

 

Peace, gossamer

Edited October 30, 2008 by gossamer

[mantis]

lol doing dmt with taoist priests, who would have thought!!

 

[h.uriahr]

And what's THAT supposed to mean???

 

 

Ahh I forgot, I havent been practicing cultural and racial sensitivity DAMN IT MAN!!!

 

Ok, it's so easy that a ....uh....ah shit you got me...sorry mr caveman

 

I remember something that 'Lame Deer' said: "The BEST VISIONS come from YOUR OWN JUICES!"

 

Just a thought from someone who has been there, and done that thing, that you are interested in.

Peace, gossamer

 

Many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, MANY cultures used some form of substance to induce visions. Personally I'm for meditation however I see nothing wrong with elevating your own DMT levels by way of root, seed etc either. The difficulty of having visions or mental elevation to the level that substances can give isnt something that everyone is going to attain. DMT is chemically flooded in your brain at birth and death and unless something is done to induce it later, that's it.

[riverheron]

I suggest picking up the latest issue of "Shaman's Drum" magazine . . . lots of info within, specifically the article by Luis Eduardo Luna, phd, 'Ritual Approaches to working with Ayahuasca' I would never recommend working with this medicine (especially the first time) without the guidance and icaros (magical songs) of a master shaman. The medicine can heal oh so deeply, when approached with care and humility.

 

blessings on your quest!

[froggie]

The difference between Psychotria viridis (a component of ayahuasca) and other 'similar' plants is that it contains DMT, which is also naturally made in your pineal gland. Mescaline, and so, for example don't naturally occur in yourself.

 

Santo daime is another religion where the tea is used. Everyone can become a member of it.

-

MPway: 'controlled substance' doesn't mean illegal, for everyone. it only means 'controlled (substance)' i.e. not everyone should use it. but then we get to why someone would like to use it. is it a good reason? is it helpful? is it good for the person or on the contrary? and who may decide this? it must be a very high, empathic and wise individual who should tell the person who can use it or why not to use it if the question arises.

Conciousness level is what should be increased overall. I agree, that only then anything can be used wisely and done good and well.

 

Serene blue: you can get seeds of a lot of things at a lot of places, also in the US and also in a lot of other places.

 

p.s. it's a plant, and indeed a plant can not be illegal. how it's used is another matter. but banning should never be allowed. (it's very bad.) but controlled is better. educated upon unbiasedly even better. and treated with respect may be the best. (something which should be somehow 'learned' and 'gotten into', some how, some way, any way. in a sense.)

Edited October 30, 2008 by froggie

[shontonga]

You can go to your local flower and garden shop and buy San Pedro cactus and extract the mescaline from that.

 

 

Like people say . . . States can be induced but levels have to be earned.

 

 

Ugh,

The first one kinda freaks me out to!

Folks usually leave it to soak in a special brew ...

Looks like bloated swollen fingers floating around in jars.

 

 

Thanks for the second line there.

Important maybe to remember... thank you!

Edited October 30, 2008 by shontonga

[wudangquan]

Yeah . . .

 

After re-reading I want to say that I don't think hallucinogenics can take you that far. Not far at all really, and a lot of the experiences can just be reflections of your own conditioned mind, especially for people doing things recreationally or whatever.

 

I first started experimenting with this stuff when I was about 13 or so.

 

The only thing that it led me to is realizing that I needed to meditate, which led me to realize that if I want superhuman experience, knowledge, etc. that I need to step away from humanness.

 

The thing about states vs. levels is a big deal, imho.

 

That's why I don't think any chemicals will do much in the long run.

 

That's why I don't think anyone can download their kung fu program into you like in the matrix.

 

Enlightenment is a non-transferable currency.

[h.uriahr]

DMT is naturally produced in the human brain. It can be argued back and forth as to whether or not you should or shouldnt take these teas or what have you. Even highly spiritual shamans use this today as they have for many many years. I'm not saying that meditation is bad because I myself meditate, a DMT experience can produce PROFOUND experiences, life altering experience. A DMT trip can be good, bad, spiritual, NDE or many other things. For anyone actually wanting to experiment with DMT I highly recommend a book called

 

DMT: The Spirit Molecule.

 

It was a study done that had people from your run of the mill normal 9 to 5 workers to people who meditate like everyone here on taobums.

[mantis]

lol i'm sure most of the people on here used drugs in the past and probably wouldn't be here if it wasn't for them.

[h.uriahr]

DMT isnt an acid trip or some other trip drug. DMT is a completely different trip all together. I'm not into it and yes I've done my fair share of drugs but I think it's pushing it when you say nothing is compared to meditation , and again, it's not because I'm against meditation, I DO IT DAILY, but to say that you can just sit down and produce the experience that DMT can is like me saying I can produce the effect of a NUKE with a snap of my fingers. It's unrealistic to think that the majority of people who meditate get that kind of effect.

 

You have people who meditate because it soothes and calms, you have people that meditate to have abilities and you have people that meditate for peace or whatever other reasons but producing a DMT experience isnt going to happen.

 

I dont do any drugs at all anymore, besides the occassional beer but beyond that..maybe a shot of tequila or irish whiskey, but BEYOND that of course I dont do drugs. I have no idea what kind of effect drugs would have on my current progress so I'm not looking to experiment.

 

Either way look, you need to seriously think about whether or not you want to do this because DMT will more than likely throw your mind into a realm, whether real or not, completely seperated from your body and you will experience contact with other beings and vibrations you've probably never felt.

 

DMT isnt an acid trip or some other trip drug. DMT is a completely different trip all together. I'm not into it and yes I've done my fair share of drugs but I think it's pushing it when you say nothing is compared to meditation , and again, it's not because I'm against meditation, I DO IT DAILY, but to say that you can just sit down and produce the experience that DMT can is like me saying I can produce the effect of a NUKE with a snap of my fingers. It's unrealistic to think that the majority of people who meditate get that kind of effect.

 

You have people who meditate because it soothes and calms, you have people that meditate to have abilities and you have people that meditate for peace or whatever other reasons but producing a DMT experience isnt going to happen.

 

I dont do any drugs at all anymore, besides the occassional beer but beyond that..maybe a shot of tequila or irish whiskey, but BEYOND that of course I dont do drugs. I have no idea what kind of effect drugs would have on my current progress so I'm not looking to experiment.

 

Either way look, you need to seriously think about whether or not you want to do this because DMT will more than likely throw your mind into a realm, whether real or not, completely seperated from your body and you will experience contact with other beings and vibrations you've probably never felt.

 

Near death experiences are linked to DMT being flushed at high levels into your brain.

[Unconditioned]

lol i'm sure most of the people on here used drugs in the past and probably wouldn't be here if it wasn't for them.

 

I've heard an interesting theory before that psychedelic drugs could have lead to the evolution of our current mind.

 

I have gotten glimpses years ago when I experimented with mushrooms - actually the first time I used them - of how 'everything works'. The problem is, you can reach a state where 'you get it' but it doesn't last.. it is only temporary.

 

Years later, I still recall some images during my first experience that now seem to make a lot more sense. For example, during the trip I pictured myself at work... working so seriously (like I usually do)... and I found this hilarious, so funny I just couldn't stop laughing at how serious I took 'banging on the keyboard'. I saw the emptiness in it, even though I didn't know what it was called at the time, I was able to experience it right away.

 

So, I'm not going to say whether it's good for people or bad for them but I will say that I believe it helped to open me up to some of the experience that I now have during meditation practice.

 

Edit: Another reason for the correlation between my prior experience and current could easily just be samskaras / memories of the tripping, so perhaps I'm making something out of nothing.

Edited October 30, 2008 by Unconditioned

[Bum Grasshopper]

 

 

There is a man who is an artist here in the U.S.A.?

Don't recall his name. Has got books of his paintings out there readily available.

The place is called "The Hall Of Mirrors" or something like that.

Think it may be in an old church in New York.

He has Life size paintings your meant to stand in front of,

like a mirror.

It is supposed to be the equivalent of a energetic transmission,

The "drugs" with out the side effects,lol!

Might be good to look into

 

His name is Alex Grey. Here is a video of how he had a vision of 9/11 years before it happened

 

Alex Grey on You Tube

[wudangquan]

The thing about drugs helping to develop the human mind - The first or maybe the most famous proponent of that was Terrence Mckenna, with his "stoned ape theory". . .

 

Basically he thought that the high point of human development was during the high paleolithic when we were eating mushrooms and other entheogens, and that there's this constant desire to return to that state.

 

MPWay- I'm not saying that DMT or other things don't provide valuable insight or awareness. They do, and I've used them for that purpose.

 

Alot of the long term cave meditations and such trigger dmt or psuedo dmt experiences and that definitely has provided a lot of value to some peoples cultivation.

 

Have you smoked or otherwise used dmt before?

 

The big problem is that 10 minutes after you come down, you can't remember most of what you experienced.

 

And you can go out of your body. And after you cross the threshold (if you've done it you know it haha) you can meet other beings, and it's not like lsd or mushrooms at all.

 

But - I think it can only be a good gateway to real cultivation, or maybe augment cultivation very rarely.

 

There's not a drug in the world that will allow your yang shen to permanently or consistenly leave your body. That stuff wont' raise your gong column, and it's ultimately just a state that you can experience.

 

Although it has some benefits, for most people to be able to reach higher levels (rather than states) requires some work and serious de-conditioning.

 

I mentioned the thing about semen retention related to entheogens that I experienced. The first time I smoked DMT I also understood the following lines at a much, much higher level (than I had before):

 

The Tao can't be perceived.

Smaller than an electron,

it contains uncountable galaxies.

 

Mastering others is strength;

mastering yourself is true power.

 

Because he has given up helping,

he is people's greatest help.

 

True words seem paradoxical.

 

I had some conversations with Lin about something like this a week or two ago, on the issue of qigong or energetic healing. I think he and I probably differ on the issue, but I respect his beliefs and acknowledge my own lowness in understanding of . . . anything.

 

Basically my belief is that if your body represents a universe in and of itself, and is part of a larger universe outside of itself, that effort and energy should be spent to correct, rectify, zheng or whatever the environment and the innumerable beings within, and that true compassion starts there, rather than with doing other things (although if someone has such high attainment status that they can balance these well I see no issue).

 

 

So I think it has some import . . . To be honest these things have affected significant changes to my own cultivation.

 

They have value, and can be like a map sometimes. But the map is not the territory.

 

 

 

(as always - IMHO)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54BASgxINVg

[h.uriahr]

The difference between Psychotria viridis (a component of ayahuasca) and other 'similar' plants is that it contains DMT, which is also naturally made in your pineal gland. Mescaline, and so, for example don't naturally occur in yourself.

 

Santo daime is another religion where the tea is used. Everyone can become a member of it.

-

MPway: 'controlled substance' doesn't mean illegal, for everyone. it only means 'controlled (substance)' i.e. not everyone should use it. but then we get to why someone would like to use it. is it a good reason? is it helpful? is it good for the person or on the contrary? and who may decide this? it must be a very high, empathic and wise individual who should tell the person who can use it or why not to use it if the question arises.

Conciousness level is what should be increased overall. I agree, that only then anything can be used wisely and done good and well.

 

Serene blue: you can get seeds of a lot of things at a lot of places, also in the US and also in a lot of other places.

 

p.s. it's a plant, and indeed a plant can not be illegal. how it's used is another matter. but banning should never be allowed. (it's very bad.) but controlled is better. educated upon unbiasedly even better. and treated with respect may be the best. (something which should be somehow 'learned' and 'gotten into', some how, some way, any way. in a sense.)

 

You'll have to excuse me as I wasnt aware that what I was saying would get disected. DMT is a schedule 1 drug therefore it is completely ILLEGAL. You cant just write a letter to your congressman asking to use this stuff. Only one organization in the US is allowed to consume it legally. Picking up the book I mentioned earlier will give you all the info you need as to whether or not you should use it. The only downside, as with any psychedilic is that the trip might not turn out to be so fun.

 

The difference between Psychotria viridis (a component of ayahuasca) and other 'similar' plants is that it contains DMT, which is also naturally made in your pineal gland. Mescaline, and so, for example don't naturally occur in yourself.

 

Santo daime is another religion where the tea is used. Everyone can become a member of it.

-

MPway: 'controlled substance' doesn't mean illegal, for everyone. it only means 'controlled (substance)' i.e. not everyone should use it. but then we get to why someone would like to use it. is it a good reason? is it helpful? is it good for the person or on the contrary? and who may decide this? it must be a very high, empathic and wise individual who should tell the person who can use it or why not to use it if the question arises.

Conciousness level is what should be increased overall. I agree, that only then anything can be used wisely and done good and well.

 

Serene blue: you can get seeds of a lot of things at a lot of places, also in the US and also in a lot of other places.

 

p.s. it's a plant, and indeed a plant can not be illegal. how it's used is another matter. but banning should never be allowed. (it's very bad.) but controlled is better. educated upon unbiasedly even better. and treated with respect may be the best. (something which should be somehow 'learned' and 'gotten into', some how, some way, any way. in a sense.)

Santo daime, last I checked, couldnt use the tea legally, not in the US

[Xienkula1]

 

Have you smoked or otherwise used dmt before?

 

 

DMT smoked on its own is like yang without yin. Balance.

Edited October 31, 2008 by Xienkula1

[h.uriahr]

The thing about drugs helping to develop the human mind - The first or maybe the most famous proponent of that was Terrence Mckenna, with his "stoned ape theory". . .

 

Basically he thought that the high point of human development was during the high paleolithic when we were eating mushrooms and other entheogens, and that there's this constant desire to return to that state.

 

MPWay- I'm not saying that DMT or other things don't provide valuable insight or awareness. They do, and I've used them for that purpose.

 

Alot of the long term cave meditations and such trigger dmt or psuedo dmt experiences and that definitely has provided a lot of value to some peoples cultivation.

 

Have you smoked or otherwise used dmt before?

 

The big problem is that 10 minutes after you come down, you can't remember most of what you experienced.

 

And you can go out of your body. And after you cross the threshold (if you've done it you know it haha) you can meet other beings, and it's not like lsd or mushrooms at all.

 

But - I think it can only be a good gateway to real cultivation, or maybe augment cultivation very rarely.

 

There's not a drug in the world that will allow your yang shen to permanently or consistenly leave your body. That stuff wont' raise your gong column, and it's ultimately just a state that you can experience.

 

Although it has some benefits, for most people to be able to reach higher levels (rather than states) requires some work and serious de-conditioning.

 

I mentioned the thing about semen retention related to entheogens that I experienced. The first time I smoked DMT I also understood the following lines at a much, much higher level (than I had before):

 

The Tao can't be perceived.

Smaller than an electron,

it contains uncountable galaxies.

 

Mastering others is strength;

mastering yourself is true power.

 

Because he has given up helping,

he is people's greatest help.

 

True words seem paradoxical.

 

I had some conversations with Lin about something like this a week or two ago, on the issue of qigong or energetic healing. I think he and I probably differ on the issue, but I respect his beliefs and acknowledge my own lowness in understanding of . . . anything.

 

Basically my belief is that if your body represents a universe in and of itself, and is part of a larger universe outside of itself, that effort and energy should be spent to correct, rectify, zheng or whatever the environment and the innumerable beings within, and that true compassion starts there, rather than with doing other things (although if someone has such high attainment status that they can balance these well I see no issue).

So I think it has some import . . . To be honest these things have affected significant changes to my own cultivation.

 

They have value, and can be like a map sometimes. But the map is not the territory.

(as always - IMHO)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54BASgxINVg

 

Memory problems happen when an excessive amount is taken. I've done it many moons ago, before my current practice. Another interesting experience that's consistent among experiences with tea is that people who have drank it while ill where not ill after the trip was over. An insane vibrational cleansing if you will.

 

As far as being able to meditate and go outside your body, I know personally of only one man who can actually do that. That type of training isnt your typical soccer mom or office pop meditation. In fact, if you want an OBE then I would highly suggest using dmt because not everyone has the discipline to take meditation to that level. Falling asleep and dreaming doesnt count

 

DMT smoked on its own is like yang without yin. Balance.

 

Obviously you havent. DMT on its own is a new definition of experience. Meditation is great and smoking dmt or drinking it wont give you any abilities like some meditation will but it's an "educational" tool for awareness, without a doubt