Can We Transcend Lust?

[三江源]

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Edited March 10, 2015 by 三江源

[ddilulo_06]

I would contrast lust, based in the mind, and bodily feelings. One is perfectly natural and the other is the problem you want to overcome.

How do you know if the feeling is an unhealthy one from the mind as opposed to a healthy, natural one from the body?

Edited November 6, 2008 by ddilulo_06

[Unconditioned]

How do you know if the feeling is an unhealthy one from the mind as opposed to a healthy, natural one from the body?

 

Do you obsess over the thoughts of lust or do you feel it's effects?

[Taiji Bum]

DarrinHammel, I know you haven't masturbated since like 1994. Has it just been discipline, or have you transcended lust completely to the point where you don't have feelings of needing to take care of yourself sexually?

 

Anyone else?

Hmmm..... I think I just want other things more. I've never gotten rid of lust but it doesn't control me. Lust seems to me like a force that moves me to certain actions but there are deeper needs I have such as seeking ascension that move me to other ends than lust seems to be driving me towards. I just want ascension/immortality or union with God THAT MUCH!

 

It has actually gotten much easier since I got a girlfriend too. She is really spiritual and knows about my goal of ascension and SUPPORTS IT. She is a rare woman. My girlfriend is really, really beautiful with a smokin' hot body so when we make out there is definately a lust factor but I love her more than I lust after her. Were not going to have sex before marriage but we do fool around a little bit and thats when I let lust loose in small doses but I am very careful that I dont lose any essence which is of course necessary to alchemy.

 

Also, before I met her I had a very general and odd sense of wanting sex but since I met and fell in love with her it has become very specific and love centered which has made ignoring any lust I feel much, much easier. Perhaps this has to do with age too. I also dont think I would be able to love her so deeply if I hadn't spent so many years in meditaion and personal development though.

 

Did that help? In short... I do feel the need for sexual release but I feel the need for ascension a million times more!

[三江源]

.

Edited March 10, 2015 by 三江源

[.broken.]

bhakti bhakti bhakti

 

Maranatha

[Apech]

Darin,

 

You are an inspiration.

 

I wish you total success in your spiritual work and your relationship.

[ddilulo_06]

Yeah Darin, that helped. Thanks.

 

Unconditioned, when I don't masturbate and see a hot woman, I definitely feel the effects. When I started to do the Kunlun 100 days, I would cut myself off from any more thoughts... only to have sexual dreams and to be drawn more and more to women's bodies. Then it became a battle of denial and suppression... and this was after 8 or 9 days of celibacy.

 

I'm 20 years old and have never had sex. For me, choosing to follow a celibate path right now would be very limiting... with the raging hormones and all.

 

The only times I haven't felt lust when hot girls were around is when I've been in an intense state of presence. I was in that state when I made post # 24.

 

I figure if I'm making the wrong decision, the universe will give me signals... all I feel right now though is relief. Besides, I don't want enlightenment now (I don't think so anyway) I want to keep expanding socially and find my place in the world. After all, I am still living at home with my dad... enlightenment could be a while longer no?

Edited November 7, 2008 by ddilulo_06

[mat black]

Lust, desire etc is an outward projection, the mind wanting something out there (eg a beautiful woman etc). So the body simply follows the mind's directive and builds up pressure in order to project towards that object of desire. The physiological responses are sometimes called 'natural', or part of the Tao, and so we may just resign ourselves to it, but really they are only the manifestation of the deep and lives-long old habit which only dis-integrates a person.

That's one of things about lust, and other deep forms of karma, we may have been carrying the habit for so long, that we don't even recogonise it's potentially harmful effect anymore.

Lust can also obscure the development of wisdom.

 

Mater Hsuan Hua:

"The Shurangama Sutra says, "If one doesn't cut off lust, one won't be able to leave the dust.

The Shurangama Sutra also says, "Trying to cultivate samadhi without cutting off lust is like cooking sand trying to obtain rice. It can't be done." If we contemplate the truth of this, we will know where the Treasury of the Proper Dharma Eye lies"

 

In the effort to transcend it, we can employ both self-effort, and ask for the assistance of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas.

Self effort is through meditation, intention to change our old ways, being mindful etc. Asking for assistance is to request with a sincere and humble heart to the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas that they please assist us to eliminate our unhelpful habits. Whe we are are genuine in our request, they do hear and help us.

 

"If there are beings of much lust who are constantly mindful of and humbly respectful to the Bodhisattva He Who Observes the Sounds of the World, they shall straightway contrive to be separated from their lust."

= Lotus Sutra, Universal door chapter on Guan Yin.

Edited November 7, 2008 by mat black

[aquarian]

Sexuality cannot be transcended.

 

Also:

 

When you see your sexuality as natural, you can accept it. This is because natural things are acceptable to people, generally.

 

Try looking at smut with the attitude of sexuality being totally natural. You may see kinkyness and dirtyness as shallow and pedantic if you do this. It's fun, try it.

 

Sex then becomes something natural and physical. This is as close you dorks are going to get to ascension.

 

Maybe you guys should let go of your ancient scriptural beliefs and start thinking for yourselves. Geez, I'm sick of rolling my eyes at you fools.

Edited November 7, 2008 by aquarian

[Taiji Bum]

Sexuality cannot be transcended.

A better way to say this would be that YOU cannot as yet transcend your sexuality (Maybe your projecting yourself on others).

 

Also:

 

When you see your sexuality as natural, you can accept it. This is because natural things are acceptable to people, generally.

 

Try looking at smut with the attitude of sexuality being totally natural. You may see kinkyness and dirtyness as shallow and pedantic if you do this. It's fun, try it.

 

Sex then becomes something natural and physical. This is as close you dorks are going to get to ascension.

Looking at smut objectifies women and causes harm to the mans psychology that looks at it. You may want to get some counseling.

 

Maybe you guys should let go of your ancient scriptural beliefs and start thinking for yourselves. Geez, I'm sick of rolling my eyes at you fools.

Maybe you should develop a greater appreciation of those who went before. If you want to be a great carpenter you do what other great carpenters did to become great carpenters and chances are you will become one too. Same thing with spiritual matters.

 

How old are you? You sound like an old burnt out hippie or a kid. Are you just having a bad day?

[rex]

I don't hold to a puritanical view of the natural attraction between the sexes but I can see how misappropriating this attraction can cause problems on a number of levels and that there are different approaches to sexuality depending on one's ability and outlook.

 

While we've got a body sexuality can't be transcended, it's just too fundamental, but it can perhaps be transmuted and become a powerful medicine. To illustrate this point there's the story of the peacock:

 

In Buddhist thought, such as in The Peacock's Neutralizing of Poisons by Dharmarakshita, the ability of the Peacock to roam freely in the Forest of Poisons is seen as symbolic of the power of the enlightened soul to move through the world unharmed by the poisonous tree of the five afflictions: attachment, anger, delusion, envy and conceitedness.

 

To illustrate the differences taught in the various yanas [i.e., paths], Dudjom Rinpoche always used to recount the story of the poisonous plant. The plant is a symbol for emotional defilements or negativity.

 

A group of people discover that a poisonous plant is growing in their backyard. They begin to panic, as they recognize that this is very dangerous. So they try to cut down the plant. This is the approach of renunciation, which is taught in Hinayana as the method to eradicate the ego and the negative emotions.

 

Another group of people arrive, and, realizing that the plant is dangerous, but that simply cutting it will not be sufficient since its roots remain to sprout anew, they throw hot ash or boiling water over the roots to prevent the plant from ever growing again. This is the approach of the Mahayana, which applies the realization of emptiness as the antidote of ignorance, the root of ego and negativity.

 

The next group of people to appear on the scene are the doctors, and when they see this poison they are not alarmed; on the contrary, they are very pleased, since they have been looking for this particular poison. They know how to transform the poison into medicine rather than destroying it. This is the tantric approach of the Vajrayana, which does not abandon the negative emotions, but through the power of transformation uses their energy as a vehicle to bring realization.

Taken from here.

[Patrick Brown]

No, we can only strive to transmute it. It's called enlightenment!

 

[Picture of androgynous women omitted to avoid offence to the working classes!]

[Apech]

Geez, I'm sick of rolling my eyes at you fools.

 

 

Fools? No, you are far to generous but thanks for the compliment.

[Patrick Brown]

Fools? No, you are far to generous but thanks for the compliment.

 

Call me Dorky Brown if you like!

 

Maranatha

 

Had to look that one up but it was well worth it!

[Apech]

Maranatha! I looked it up too! Mine eyes have seen the glory of ...

 

[三江源]

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Edited March 10, 2015 by 三江源

[Patrick Brown]

"shiny things"

 

I'm pretty sure they're allowed!

[Desert Eagle]

substitution, understanding, awareness, manipulation, transmutation, aversion therapy.

[Wayfarer64]

lust, envy, pain, anger so many of these seemingly negative energies can be accepted as our own -owned up to as it were, and then laughed off as what we once owned and then let go of... like so much of what we go thru-

use it don't abuse it and it can help you learn just who/what you are about...

[Gerard]

Best advice someone gave me once:

 

DON'T LIVE LIKE A MONK IF YOU ARE NOT ONE.

 

 

Very true. Just regulate your sexual emissions.

 

 

With Metta.

[rookie]

Lust, desire etc is an outward projection, the mind wanting something out there (eg a beautiful woman etc). So the body simply follows the mind's directive and builds up pressure in order to project towards that object of desire. The physiological responses are sometimes called 'natural', or part of the Tao, and so we may just resign ourselves to it, but really they are only the manifestation of the deep and lives-long old habit which only dis-integrates a person.

That's one of things about lust, and other deep forms of karma, we may have been carrying the habit for so long, that we don't even recogonise it's potentially harmful effect anymore.

Lust can also obscure the development of wisdom.

 

 

This implies that the proper state of a human being is non-sexual. I would assume procreation would be ok. But should it be done without physical enjoyment?

You are basically saying that all sexual feelings are harmful and caused by present or past thoughts.

Would you take this philosophy to the point of saying that all forms of good feelings, pleasant sensations, are harmfull? What about enjoying an experience like a sunset? or anything in the present moment?

Is enjoying the taste of a ripe peach the same thing?

The sensations are enjoyable. I wonder why. Why is eating rotten food not enjoyable?

How about a good nights sleep? Anything that feels good in any way is bad?

Or is it the attachment to it that is the problem?

[markern]

Daniel Ingram has a lot of interesting stuff to say about what actualy happens and what does not happen at enlightenment:

 

http://web.mac.com/danielmingram/iWeb/Dani...ok/Archive.html

 

Read the parts called models of the stages of enlightenment

[dao zhen]

[rookie]

Daniel Ingram has a lot of interesting stuff to say about what actualy happens and what does not happen at enlightenment:

 

http://web.mac.com/danielmingram/iWeb/Dani...ok/Archive.html

 

Read the parts called models of the stages of enlightenment

 

 

Thank you for the link markem. I will look into it.