Spirit Ape Posted November 11, 2008 Untill he can use his taiji fajing in MMA i would give him credibilty or in BJJ/JUDO competitions! Â Easy to do what he does against a student pushing or being used as a dummy, that isnt sparring or even close to fighting. Â Just my ranting sorry Mal to spoil the thread but its like saying do push hands against hakka mantis and you will get creamed with Gau Choi's hahahah! You Feel me?? Â Ape Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mal Posted November 11, 2008 haha yes I understand  BUT, although I have not personally met Sifu Adam Mizner, some people in my lineage have. So I have great respect for his Tai Chi and I want to attend one (or several) of his seminars.  I really enjoyed this article "to live as a martial meditator through example and teachings" a great goal IMHO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mouse Posted November 11, 2008 Untill he can use his taiji fajing in MMA i would give him credibilty or in BJJ/JUDO competitions!  Easy to do what he does against a student pushing or being used as a dummy, that isnt sparring or even close to fighting.  Just my ranting sorry Mal to spoil the thread but its like saying do push hands against hakka mantis and you will get creamed with Gau Choi's hahahah! You Feel me??  Ape   Spirit Ape,  Perhaps you didn't read the portion about push hands training. Actually Sifu has had lots of experience with BBJ folks and has even taken opponents fighting on his knees...but no one has been able to take him to the ground yet.  He is planning to do some videos of _____ vs Taiji to post up. If you would like to have a friendly go, I am sure he wouldn't mind filming it for youtube regardless of the result.  Are you a hakka mantis practitioner?  mouse Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spirit Ape Posted November 11, 2008 Well mouse if he has been cross training with BJJ people i like to see these clips and what teachers he has been beating using push hands? I know some very good BJJ people and im not saying push hands is crap just that if you can bridge you can be hit and if you can bridge you can be taken down and submitted. Â Yes, i teach Hakka arts! Â Ape Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spirit Ape Posted November 11, 2008 Sorry Mal, didnt respond to your post, thats great you want to get involved with other arts like Taiji i think Malcom Sue teaches Taiji or Henry Sue not sure now?! Â Anyway all arts good its when i see these guys saying they have INTERNAL POWER espcially from Internal Kung fu and they look over weight and are unhealthy. To me Internal power comes from external and internal training creating a body of steel not flab looking. But as he is a Master on INTERNAL POWER he should be able to compete in any MMA show against guys of 1-2yrs of MMA and toy with them, :Right? Â Anyway its all fun and games till someone gets ground and pounded!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mouse Posted November 12, 2008 Well mouse if he has been cross training with BJJ people i like to see these clips and what teachers he has been beating using push hands? I know some very good BJJ people and im not saying push hands is crap just that if you can bridge you can be hit and if you can bridge you can be taken down and submitted.  Yes, i teach Hakka arts!  Ape   Ape,  Haven't got any videos of these encounters. We will post them up once we have some though. Push hands is just a training method. Without push hands, it is hard to train sensitivity, the yielding, neutralising skills as well as testing the quality of your taiji form. You can apply the techniques refined in push hands to combat situations, to trap the opponent's center etc.  I'm always interested to see what other disciplines have to offer. Fujian White crane also follows some similar principles in Taiji such as 'sung' and 'yi'. Do you have any of your own clips demonstrating Hakka arts?  Enjoy your practice, mouse Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spirit Ape Posted November 12, 2008 I agree that sensitivity helps yeilding but in Hakka Kung Fu we dont use it to bounce people away like what you see with this guy in his Taiji clips. Im sure he can do them to standing people not against people he doesnt know that really would want to knock him out or take him down. Im sure his Fajing will get you only so far maybe pushing the person onto a on coming truck or train track but not in the ring, IMHO. Â I also compete in Judo and BJJ and I feel my sensitivity is pretty good and Yes it does help with Gi control but if you understand grappling if they try and bounce or push, you get armbarred , thrown, swept etc cause Grappling also uses soft and hard circles. Â thanks Ape Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adam mizner Posted November 12, 2008 please come my friend, next seminars in april. metta adam  haha yes I understand  BUT, although I have not personally met Sifu Adam Mizner, some people in my lineage have. So I have great respect for his Tai Chi and I want to attend one (or several) of his seminars.  I really enjoyed this article "to live as a martial meditator through example and teachings" a great goal IMHO.   gow choi, yes a good strike that i am more than familiar with, the thing is that if the body moves its centre can be controlled, no centre=no power. but hey thats just a push hands skill. in short the article is about training the mind, not fighting, and certainly not ring fighting which is a game much as push hands is.  metta adam  Untill he can use his taiji fajing in MMA i would give him credibilty or in BJJ/JUDO competitions!  Easy to do what he does against a student pushing or being used as a dummy, that isnt sparring or even close to fighting.  Just my ranting sorry Mal to spoil the thread but its like saying do push hands against hakka mantis and you will get creamed with Gau Choi's hahahah! You Feel me??  Ape   friend fa jin is only one way to express energy, we also strike. but fighting bores me. metta adam  I agree that sensitivity helps yeilding but in Hakka Kung Fu we dont use it to bounce people away like what you see with this guy in his Taiji clips. Im sure he can do them to standing people not against people he doesnt know that really would want to knock him out or take him down. Im sure his Fajing will get you only so far maybe pushing the person onto a on coming truck or train track but not in the ring, IMHO.  I also compete in Judo and BJJ and I feel my sensitivity is pretty good and Yes it does help with Gi control but if you understand grappling if they try and bounce or push, you get armbarred , thrown, swept etc cause Grappling also uses soft and hard circles.  thanks Ape Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adam mizner Posted November 12, 2008 bjj is a great art, no doubt about it. it is very technical and i respect it allot, just not my taste to roll around on the ground with sweaty men. each to their own. i would also say that i find graplers the hardest to deal with.  metta adam  Well mouse if he has been cross training with BJJ people i like to see these clips and what teachers he has been beating using push hands? I know some very good BJJ people and im not saying push hands is crap just that if you can bridge you can be hit and if you can bridge you can be taken down and submitted.  Yes, i teach Hakka arts!  Ape Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spirit Ape Posted November 12, 2008 Welcome aboard Adam, Fighting bores you but you speak how to use Taiji in combat? Â Is this your ideal though of fighting? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mal Posted November 12, 2008 Cheers Adam,  Sorry for the mix up, it was a great video and I'm disappointed that I wasn't able to fly down for the Brisbane seminar this October.  Sweet clip I LOVE elbows looks like tong long too  {edit this should be after spirit apes post } They are bouncing people for "training" so as not to hurt them. I'm sure it would be plenty painful if that was the effect they wanted. eg. people look at us and go "why are you slapping each other in the head with no power?" While it would be fun to bounce a few friends, rather than hit them, It's the "power" of this that intrests me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spirit Ape Posted November 12, 2008 Mal, Â Im not saying Taiji is bad or doesnt work im saying that bouncing people has nothing to do with reality fighting or even MMA . Im sure Adam is a fine teacher if bouncing people is what you are after and of course his taiji! Â All arts should teach centering and structure and testing structure im sure your Mantis does somewhere, i know i test my students but bouncing people isnt a concern when talking fighting. Â Adam, Â Maybe go and test your Taiji in Lampeedee stadium against the Thai Boxers? If you win using your bouncing Jing i would be hugly impressed and take back any negative comments of bouncing people around. Â Take care Ape Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mouse Posted November 12, 2008 Mal,  Im not saying Taiji is bad or doesnt work im saying that bouncing people has nothing to do with reality fighting or even MMA . Im sure Adam is a fine teacher if bouncing people is what you are after and of course his taiji!  All arts should teach centering and structure and testing structure im sure your Mantis does somewhere, i know i test my students but bouncing people isnt a concern when talking fighting.  Adam,  Maybe go and test your Taiji in Lampeedee stadium against the Thai Boxers? If you win using your bouncing Jing i would be hugly impressed and take back any negative comments of bouncing people around.  Take care Ape   Spirit Ape,  How do you define winning?  Regarding talking fighting, I think the only person talking about it from the beginning is you...  The article clearly is about Taiji and Liberation and not fighting.  mouse Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spirit Ape Posted November 12, 2008 Adam,  Just for arguement sake which i dont want to argue about anything really, im not attacking your or your style just the bouncing in question related to fighting (which is my opinion only)! Ok mate?!  I do understand the importance of balance, centering, structure i use structure alot to stop Judoka from Gi wrestling but im saying against a BJJ Blackbelt someone like Elvis Sinosic as you live in Oz would love someone to try and bounce or push cause he would simply take those arms or legs and then it would be hard to escape.   Just to clarify thats all!  Mal  Ive seen women in BJJ take huge muscle footy players which is amusing!  Ape  Mouse,  He has clips all over youtube showing his skills against strikers and all sorts so its open to discussion!  Fighting is to totally destroy your opponents mind, body, soul be it competition or street!  Im not knocking his art or him as a player of taiji he is ok actually, im just discussing bouncing which i dont think is real! The Toi Sau they are doing are common playing movements and not free style for a start!!  Ape  Sorry to sound rude not trying to just discussing what i see and sharing my opinion! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mouse Posted November 12, 2008 Mouse,  He has clips all over youtube showing his skills against strikers and all sorts so its open to discussion!  Fighting is to totally destroy your opponents mind, body, soul be it competition or street!  Im not knocking his art or him as a player of taiji he is ok actually, im just discussing bouncing which i dont think is real! The Toi Sau they are doing are common playing movements and not free style for a start!!  Ape  Sorry to sound rude not trying to just discussing what i see and sharing my opinion!  Spirit Ape,  Again fighting is not relevant to the article presented.  "Totally destroying" has a place in liberation though... and that is with regards to defilements in our minds.  You are right about the push hands being playing movements. Those currently online are set push hand sets. Free push comes after learning set push. Same as from no stepping to stepping to old-man stepping.  Bouncing the opponent in push hands happens when you issue and the opponent is uprooted. Is just a game to test your taiji.  Think I've said enough on this as I've repeated a few points before.  Enjoy your practice.  mouse Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spirit Ape Posted November 12, 2008 I do and i will thankyou! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spirit Ape Posted November 13, 2008 Well if you cant win with normal striking and grappling, striking the jade pillow is just a cop out saying Oh i cant attack the major Dim Ma Dim Yuet points therefore my art is too deadly for competition! PUH!! Â Im sure a nice forearm to the throat *accidental of course* wink wink could be pulled off, behind the ear, GB back of the head, jaw, temple, liver 13, heart punches, these also are at your avilable distance. Oh and if you pull guard and get them close jade pillow is there for the taking. Even if you get disqualified! Â Anyway its fine mate, its good that people are out there showing Taiji again from Oz, following Erle Montague another ozzy! Â Peace Ape Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted November 13, 2008 Ape....you really confuse me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mouse Posted November 13, 2008 Ape....you really confuse me. Â Â Scotty, Â Thanks for speaking up. You're not the only one... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spirit Ape Posted November 13, 2008 HAHAHA forget it! Â Â Spirit Ape Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
