The power of Internal Martial Arts

[minkus]

Chen is old, really old .. if there is anything in the complete system wich is useless in a reallife situation or is for "show" then its been removed a few hundred years ago.

 

The Chentaiji we train is not for in a ring, is not a sport and is aimed at killing or incapacitating an enemy in as short time as possible. I dont wonna sound cruel but this is how it is, its not a ringsport where you score points by touching someone's arm.

 

Same with our Pakua and Xinyi lessons.

 

I find it ok that not alot if any allready real fights of internal MA are shown on video, the less others know the style the more you have an element of suprise hehe.

 

Believe what you want orb, im not trying to convince you actually. Yust saying how i know the internal arts to be. Behind every strange or dumb and often slow movement you see in the internal forms there is a devastating (bonebreaking, tendonripping, organshattering) technique hidden

 

No nonsense martial arts to be honest.

 

Our teacher often tells us taiji is for seniors .. after demonstrating how to brake someone's spine in the blink of an eye. Lotsa humor in he's classes

 

Regards, Mike

[orb]

 

 

Don't be so ignorant as to judge a style (especially one that you haven't trained in!) based on some videos around the net... that's just sad.

 

I have trained in IMA plenty with teachers that are considered very good and I trained until I got convinced that it's useless and that I had to grow out of it. Of course you are free to stand by your beliefs for as long as you want but I just can't read these posts which I completely disagree with and not write my point of view.

Now if there are good fighters among IMA - how come there are no videos - china and taiwan make all our video cameras so what's the big deal in using one and making a short video ?. You can film now with a regular cellphone....And yes if I knew where a real IMA fighter was located like you are claiming there are - I would go to see him and get a beating from him, but until then allow me to keep my strong doubts

I'm sorry but your arguments just don't cut it for me at all.....

Edited May 7, 2009 by orb

[Gerard]

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Edited September 21, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[mjjbecker]

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Edited July 7, 2009 by mjjbecker

[Nico]

IMA can be fun to watch, but there is better such as xingyi, bagua, and taiji. Personally the thought of breakings someone arm to win a fight is barbaric. The way to win a fight using IMA style is to disable the opponent. To break a limb or punch them until they're bleeding and can't continue. Sounds like Roman Gladiators without the weapons. With Xingyi, Bagua, and Taiji you can conquer an opponent without causing them great harm. The precision that one gains from being still and practicing at very slow speeds puts you on a totally different level from IMA. I was open hand sparring with a friend the other night. He was a little drunk though, but he jumped at me with a punch and I just smacked him in the mouth with my finger tips and he fell. I didn't have to cave his brain in or sweep his legs out from under him causing him to fall and smash his head. IMA is a barbaric sport which gives wrestling a bad name. Wrestling is also a art of skill and not of who can hit harder. I prefer to be able to conquer someone with a light touch rather then a disabling blow. We are all the same and come from the same source, 'The Tao'. We should be able to sort out our disagreements in a non-violent way, but if it does get violent, than a push is more preferable than a punch.

[mjjbecker]

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Edited July 7, 2009 by mjjbecker

[Squatting Monkey]

Maximum power with minimum effort.

Internal martial arts techniques are meant to kill or maim. Life or death. Do or die. That's why they were developed. Not for shows or tournaments.

However, this isn't feudal China so the need to defend ourselves from attacks many times daily is not required.

Martial artists (myself included) are all just hobbyists now.

[Nico]

I have trained in IMA plenty with teachers that are considered very good and I trained until I got convinced that it's useless and that I had to grow out of it. Of course you are free to stand by your beliefs for as long as you want but I just can't read these posts which I completely disagree with and not write my point of view.

Now if there are good fighters among IMA - how come there are no videos - china and taiwan make all our video cameras so what's the big deal in using one and making a short video ?. You can film now with a regular cellphone....And yes if I knew where a real IMA fighter was located like you are claiming there are - I would go to see him and get a beating from him, but until then allow me to keep my strong doubts

I'm sorry but your arguments just don't cut it for me at all.....

 

You should check out Luo Dexiu. He's a Taiwanese Xingyi, Bagua, and Tai-Chi teacher. He is amazing. I think his record goes as never defeated. My Bagua teacher George Wood, who studied under Luo Dexiu for six years, said that the hardest he's ever been hit was by his teacher Luo Dexiu. He was holding one of those training kick shields and his teacher "Luo Dexiu" hit it with his fist. The way George explained it to me was that his teacher made a small turn with his waist when he punch the shield. When his teacher hit the kick shield, he felt all of his internal organs slam back up against the back of his body and then he flew backwards. He also explained how he would hold the kick shield for other students. Some who were 6 foot rugby players that would jump kick the shield and they didn't hit even close to as hard as Luo Dexiu did. I went to a Bagua type training camp of Luo Dexiu once. He is pretty amazing. He's very gentle too.

 

Now, you might be thinking yeah right that's BS. I believe it because I heard the story first hand and George Wood isn't liar. He hits pretty hard himself. Just playing around he has knocked me down pretty hard by accident.

 

'IMA'='Internal Martial Arts', into which grouping taiji, bagua and hsing i fall. Perhaps your are thinking of 'UFC' which is the so called 'Ultimate Fighting Competition'?

 

'Internal' martial arts have plenty of savage techniques for maiming or killing. 'External' martial arts have techniques for controlling and restraining.

 

Some people will try and kill you and you need to be prepared to deal with this reality if you are being realistic.

 

As an aside, 'traditional' and 'classical' martial arts were based around using weapons. Empty hands were a last resort, not one you wanted to find yourself in during a life or death encounter. Not then, and not now either. Why do you think some Southern gong fu schools have forms using a bench from a tea house? Not for aesthetic purposes.

 

Modern MMA competitions involve highly trained athletes competing in a fixed rules EMPTY HANDED duel. They are very capable and effective within that arena. Street combat is a different creature altogether. Being highly trained and well conditioned, MMA people are often more likely to be effective in a real fight than your 'average' martial artist, irrespective of style. They are very fit, used to being hit and the fear that this entails. Tactically, they are deficient. Remember the world champion kickboxer who was gunned down after chasing someone who hit his auto mobile?

 

In a nutshell, the whole 'empty hand' combat argument bears little relation to the realities of how combat has developed, and is applied-from the dawn of man to the present day. Something worth remembering if you really think what you are doing has any utility as a means of self defence.

 

OOps my bad. I was refering to MMA not IMA in my last post. I still stand by that one can learn to fend off an attack or a possible life threatening attack without having to resort to MMA. You cant be any geek off the street though. You gotta know what you're doing of course. However, just because someone attacks you like a dog doesn't mean you have to turn into a dog to beat them. When you are relaxed and aware, you can see and feel things coming before it hits you. Guns..... that's just a totally different subject. The power to take a life at the squeeze of a trigger. The only thing one can do is Always Be Aware of what you're getting yourself into.

[Gerard]

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Edited September 21, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[SimoninTaiwan]

Hi just saw this, please dont pass Alex's email on to anyone who needs proof, Alex is unwell at the moment and the last thing he needs is more hassles. He one seriously skilled guy but unlike alot of the internal people he trained damm hard under pressure sparring with many different people on the way.

 

People are entitled to there opinion, end of the day I gave up the internal cos I couldn't be bothered to wait years to get to the fighting ability of a 1 year thai guy.

 

Please people if you have fought for real fighting is fighting end of, you good or you bad, that's it. To much theorising over internal shows to me lack of reality. Its true big differences in approach but I feel when studying people need to know why if its for fighting then go with the most practical tried and tested approach. If more for theory cool do it as a yoga but please don't confuse the two.

 

The footage of Alexs teacher, bear in mind yes he does Tai Ji well and looks soft but he gone through many years of the hard, fighting for real. Its the only way.

 

Just my opinion.

[Gerard]

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Edited September 21, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[Squatting Monkey]

Here's another.

[Gerard]

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Edited September 21, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[minkus]

 

Another rare art:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q93NMGNZko

 

Yin Yang Bapanzhang.

 

Gorgeous, isn't it?

 

This is nice the guy also looks very skilled !

[Gerard]

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Edited September 21, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[Gerard]

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Edited September 21, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[orb]

More vids about Tai Chi Chuan teacher, Chen Yun San:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM4L8KkkUXk

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyJiEx02n_o

 

 

 

same crap over and over again.... Listen if somebody attacks you on the street it's gonna b a series of very fast strong punches straight in the face and none of this taichi BS would work I guarantee you. Don't you see the same pattern in all these masters - The teacher will tell you exactly how to attack (usually with some lame back of the forearm move at your chest level) and they will continue slow until the teacher decides to strike you really fast in the balls to impress the audience --- this has nothing to do with reality - your master would be biting the dust before he knows it and only a gun could save him. That's why there are no videos of taichi guys fighting a real fighter - not because of their philosophy but because they can't do it - it's not possible !!!

[Squatting Monkey]

same crap over and over again.... Listen if somebody attacks you on the street it's gonna b a series of very fast strong punches straight in the face and none of this taichi BS would work I guarantee you. Don't you see the same pattern in all these masters - The teacher will tell you exactly how to attack (usually with some lame back of the forearm move at your chest level) and they will continue slow until the teacher decides to strike you really fast in the balls to impress the audience --- this has nothing to do with reality - your master would be biting the dust before he knows it and only a gun could save him. That's why there are no videos of taichi guys fighting a real fighter - not because of their philosophy but because they can't do it - it's not possible !!!

 

And what, my friend, is a REAL fighter ?

How do YOU define who is a REAL fighter and who isn't ?

 

We're not talking of the armbars, chokes, punches and kicks of the RULE based MMA world.

Internal martial arts are of a different level altogether. A high level master could kill an assailant in an instant.

Check out the history of these arts before you make assumptions.

[orb]

A high level master could kill an assailant in an instant.

 

 

Yes, I believe you are right if you refer to the very few in the world - people like John Chang (probably ten or 20 people total on the entire planet) - that have the right formula and won't teach you anything unless of course your name is David Verdessi (the pawn is totally intended)...

 

But the rest of them - won't be able to kill even a chicken in an instant - so the IMA practices that you follow or Mr. Mr durkhrod chogori - don't come from a real master hence they are a waste of time - those people in the history that you talk about - you have no idea what they were practicing 'cause you simply weren't there and I couldn't care less about the stories that you have read. On the other hand I orient myself on real people that train hard and are not afraid of a real challenge - and the MMA fighters are the real fighters and ready to fight whenever you are ready - against any IMA master - just bring it on and stop hiding behind cheap resons like: "Oh yeah I'm practicing a martial art but I won't really fight you 'cause I'm pusuiing enlightment..." or "I have so much freaking power that it could kill you in an instant therefore I will never fight for real but instead I'll give lectures and seminars and sell DVDs cause I really think I'm gonna help the world by teaching them how to dress in chinese clothes and get fascinated with the tickling feelings in my stomach that are caused by the magic chi....."

 

 

and here just a few real fighters since you've asked:

But remember there are hundreds of thousands of practitioners out there that don't even compete.....and you might run into one of them that doesn't go to church too often and feels like he doesn't like you and you'll try to use your fa jing to stop him and ...... but I'll let you find out by yourself

 

 

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[Josh Young]

same crap over and over again.... Listen if somebody attacks you on the street it's gonna b a series of very fast strong punches straight in the face and none of this taichi BS would work I guarantee you.

I know several bikers and ex gang members who disagree with you. I have seen a modest amount of violence, people beat down in the street. I know a ton of stories about various fights too, sometimes ending in death. I literally know people who used to collect money for meth dealing biker gangs, they were recruited right out of highschool and did terrible things to people. Years later they ran security at a bar and a friend of mine was hired by them, that is how I met the guys.

 

I know boxers and MMA guys, ex marines and kempo blackbelts. I've been in a fair number of fights when I was younger too. I have seen several types of attacks on the street, but not once have I seen very fast straight punchs to the face. I know some wing chun guys who work like that, and the boxers have pretty good jabs but the right cross and the two handed shove are some of the most common moves. Many people go to the ground in a grapple, sometimes people get knocked out by a single punch, usually a sucker punch. Most attacks come from behind or the side.

 

The bouncers and fighters and boxers and people I know think that taijiquan works and are impressed with it. There are bad examples for every martial art but that doesn't discredit the idea that if you practice you will gain skills.

Don't you see the same pattern in all these masters - The teacher will tell you exactly how to attack (usually with some lame back of the forearm move at your chest level) and they will continue slow until the teacher decides to strike you really fast in the balls to impress the audience --- this has nothing to do with reality - your master would be biting the dust before he knows it and only a gun could save him.

I criticize these same demonstrations for the same lack of realism, but I have see taiji work very well and it has been proven time and time again in open fighting tournaments far more brutal and lethal that the sportfighting that takes place in the US. CC chen and Zhang Qin Lin are fine examples of people who proved taiji was effective and lethal and could be used for sport fighting. The very history of taijiquan has the blade techniques of the art being widely employed by the Qing imperial guard. Yang taijiquan under Luchan was a battle art, not a sport.

That's why there are no videos of taichi guys fighting a real fighter - not because of their philosophy but because they can't do it - it's not possible !!!

That is your opinion and compared to the historical record it seems rather misinformed. Taijiquan is not a sportfighting art, comparing it to MMA is like comparing having live rounds fired at you (taiji) and having paintballs fired at you(MMA) it is a joke. Don't tell me that sportfighting produces warriors, if anything it produces dolts with braindamage, what use has a taiji person for violence?

They know the art is proven and if someone who has not done the research claims that taiji is BS then that is their opinion, history has already shown that taijiquan is effective.

 

I think the whole penis measuring thing for martial arts is silly anyway. No art is capable of producing someone who cannot be defeated. Skill is a personal progress thing, not a sportfighting thing. I don't consider sport fighters to be martial artists at all.

 

In one of my friends garage they have a heavy bag and a 200lb+ water filled kicking target. I am the smallest guy in the group of people, I mean I am 160lb at most and most of these guys including the ex-marine and several people who have worked as bouncers are above 220lbs. They are clearly stronger than I am, but in terms of technique their ability to issue energy is no stronger than mine, my taiji techniques clearly transmit more force into the bags than those of the much bigger individuals. Seriously, taiji techniques are very powerful, I can shoulder streetlight poles and they shake violently, (the hollow round steel type that are about 20 feet tall) and secretly I am glad these larger guys don't know how to do that, it takes a special way to use momentum and agility.

 

Taiji is genious motion technology, if you have a genuine issue with a technique of it lets hear it, if you want to say it stinks without any real insight other than what you think you saw a so called master do then you don't have any credibility to the idea that it is ineffective.

Edited May 16, 2009 by Josh Young

[Squatting Monkey]

Mr Orb

 

The clips that you included in your post are nothing but thuggery dressed as 'sport' or 'martial arts'.

In fact they are quite sickening. Wanting to beat someone half to death is wrong, so very wrong.

It's obvious we are not going to agree on anything.

This is a thread on Internal Martial Arts and was meant to provide constructive dialogue. Not the old argument that 'my style is better/superior than your style'. This has been done to death on dozens of forums for years and has no place here.

We are here to share, compare and to learn from each other.

[BrokenFist64]

I think both have their place. Internal guys I've met can hit hella hard but have a hard time applying it in a sparing situation even just light sparing, their just not use to being pressured by someone genuinely trying to take their heads off. One of my buddy's who trains wing chun with me (wsl style) is also taking muay thai, right from the start he was shown proper punching technique and how to generate power, then goto the heavy bag hit it as hard as you can utilizing proper technique, pad work which the focus was on speed and accuracy(working combos) and finally light sparring this was all in his first class and for the past month has been working on this.

 

What he is developing right away is the attributes that are useful for a fighter, power, speed, timing, and strategy. Also the way they punch is different than what I thought. Before I thought any type of punch or kick they were using alot of muscle power but it turns out they punch the same as us although different mechanics/look of punch they use ground power along with very relaxed strikes which in turn make them fast. Same as how we punch we use power from the ground up transfer it through our legs/core and keeping elbows and shoulders down we strike very relaxed which results in a very powerful strike that penetrates very deep.

 

Where as internal martial artists I've talked to their training mostly consists of learning the form for the first few months along with some push hands and maybe some applications and that's about it. I'm not saying one is better than the other for fighting but in external styles right off the bat your learning all these attributes necessary to become a good fighter.

 

While I was studying traditional wing chun at my old school it was similar training I'm guessing to some internal artists. Practice form, ok lets work on application person A throws an attack and waits for person B to counter and doesn't provide much resistance back then ok finished. We all walked around like we were bad asses specially when we could "defend" against combo attacks sure we did conditioning classes worked on strength did pad work and even did 2vs 1 situations and we were all told that is all that we'd need to become great fighters and we'd be able to defeat everyone wasn't until I got a chance to spar against a real boxer that I realized I had to change my training methods. His 1 month of boxing kicked the crap outta my close to 6 years wing chun

 

Is that to say traditional wing chun sucks and boxing is better? No, personally I think that style of wing chun is great its just the training methods that are lacking as alot of traditional martial arts both internal and external (just a wild guess). Although style of wing chun I'm learning now I will say is far superior to the wing chun I was learning back then (just my experience)

 

Unless your genuinely feeding your partner real power and attacks that if he/she didn't block would knock them right the F out then what good are you doing to help them along their martial arts journey? If your giving half assed attacks and their defending it no prob sure you give them confidence but when shit hits the fan it could end up costing them their life Be honest with yourself, your partner and your training methods.

 

Whats the harm with after class just sparring lightly with good control? or sparring with someone from another style in a friendly manner?

 

Everyone's experience is different, just like Josh Youngs post he stated alot of fights he has seen usually start off with shoving and turn into wrestling matches. Same with me alot of fights I've seen it's either 2 guys squaring off screaming insults and waiting for the other person to attack, shoving, clinching. or sucker punches.

 

I've seen a bunch of fights where both guys knew how to move and generate power and I've also seen fights where 2 guys are scared shitless and have no clue. Which reminds me of one fight I saw between 2 high school kids long ago hahaha both guys were bout 6 feet apart and jumping 2 feet into the air, both were throwing punches in the air and ducking each others attacks from 6 feet away... oh boy but it seemed to impress all the young teeny bopper girls that were there so guess it wasn't a total loss for them lol.

 

Also alot of people seem to throw around the argument oh you wanna see a real internal martial artist well go see this guy he'll kill you!! What good is it if 1 teacher outta several hundred can kick some ass but none of his students can accomplish what he can do? Even if the teacher only has a few students outta say 30 who can accomplish what he can do. Personally I'd wanna find someone who has mad skills AND is able to pass along all that knowledge to ALL their students in a short period of time. Why spend 20+ years of your life learning to fight? If you live in a bad neighborhood where there's a damn good chance your going to get jumped while walking home wouldn't you want to learn something that is very effective and learned in a short period of time?

 

The wing chun I study now I consider it internal compared to the TWC I studied before. We work on proper grounding, generating maximum force in a relaxed manner, angles of attack, and we also do throw in pad work, spar every so often, but most importantly every drill we do we feed our partners real power and intent. Strengthens our partners skill set as well teaches the attacker to well attack

 

If you stick with internal styles or external styles whatever floats your boat I think that is great but please just sit down and take a look at the way you train and be honest with yourself. If you feel confident that your training methods are sound and are confident in your skill just try going to a MMA gym or boxing gym and ask one of the trainers if you could spar with them after class just in a friendly manner, alot of them are very open to this they love to see how other artists move and love to try to adapt other arts and concepts into what their doing it benefits everyone.

 

Just like the video I posted a few pages back a tai chi guy gave a seminar at a MMA gym and I believe he's been invited back several times too so don't be afraid to make some more friends. It can also give you an ah-ha moment. Maybe something they do will give you greater insight in a move or strategy that you do or it'll help you to see holes in your technique. You could also take the stealth route, goto a gym and say you wanna sign up for classes but would like to take a few free classes first then when you spar if you get a chance to bust out some of your styles techniques and see how it affects them.

 

And lastly it honestly doesn't matter what you study because in all likelihood I'd say 98% of the people on this forum or on others are not going to be getting into fights in their lifetime. Just find it kinda funny sometimes people are so focused on learning "killing" techniques but don't seem to make the connection their never going to get into a fight to use it and if they do have an opportunity to use it is it really worth it to kill someone over a stupid argument??

 

Sorry if any part of my post offended anyone it was not meant to and again I'll state I love all styles of martial arts, everyone has something to offer just gotta keep your eyes and ears open.

[Squatting Monkey]

Where as internal martial artists I've talked to their training mostly consists of learning the form for the first few months along with some push hands and maybe some applications and that's about it.

 

Without jibengong (foundation) training, the internal arts are meaningless. I doubt that these people have been taught correctly.

When you get hit by an internal practitioner, you don't actually get hit hard, but the effects of the strike go deep and explode from within. Very hard to explain in words.

You have to experience it.

[gendao]

Without jibengong (foundation) training, the internal arts are meaningless. I doubt that these people have been taught correctly.

I agree - probably most aren't taught correctly.

 

I think because many teachers often don't understand the underlying principles themselves, aren't willing to teach them if they do and subtle internal concepts can be very hard to teach even if they really tried.

 

Far easier and financially sustainable to lead people robotically through the motions with you class after class...instead of cutting to the chase with laser precision. Which would save the students lots of time and money, but possibly cause the teacher to lose a lot.

 

Although, a lot of time the simplest path can also be the hardest one...so that teacher's concern is not necessarily true, either.

 

 

 

 

BrokenFist64 - I would agree that you have to know what to take from each art. From WC I took the concept of fighting angles...which is the whole point of using the wooden dummy. Learning how to get around the body's major offensive and defensive weapons.

[BrokenFist64]

Without jibengong (foundation) training, the internal arts are meaningless. I doubt that these people have been taught correctly.

When you get hit by an internal practitioner, you don't actually get hit hard, but the effects of the strike go deep and explode from within. Very hard to explain in words.

You have to experience it.

 

 

I've been hit by internal guys before (not fun at all lol) and I also used to practice iron palm for maybe bout half a year and got very very good results Got to the point where I'd be maybe about 2 inches away and could give myself or others a light slap and have them collapse experiencing great pain (I was young at the time and wanted to test it out thinking back not such a nice thing to do to someone lol).

 

Slap was pretty much like brushing dirt off your arm or pant leg so not much force behind that. Like I said before I love internal martial arts I got mad respect for them I just think maybe some training methods could be possibly updated or tweaked Same goes to some traditional external styles. Maybe then we'd see more great fighters emerge. Wouldn't that be something if a tai chi stylist entered the ufc and became champ? I'd certainly love to see that!

 

I forgot to add in my previous post that all external guys should go and check out internal schools too! very good experience to be had.

 

Also the argument some people put forth on competitions like king of the cage, ufc, pride etc aren't real fights since they have rules and all and if they entered and were allowed to use their eye gouges and nut kicks they'd be champ. Well sure kicking someone in the nuts will drop most people but do you really need to spend cash and put int he time to learn to fight and do different applications if all your going to do is kick someone in the nutters? Why not take soccer and learn to kick a ball super far after a month of practicing that I'm sure you'll be able to blast their nuts into their head! haha.

 

For me I'd rather have a strong foundation, strong base, good ability to generate power from any distance and angle and be able to deliver it into my opponent be it a punch or kick and be able to knock them down with a body punch, then once that is accomplished then you can add in nut kicks, pressure points, various other things. But if you rely all all of those right from the start then your not gaining much ability and you place too much confidence that those will drop people and end the fight.

 

I was in an altercation before when I was studying twc and thought along those lines, well this huge guy came toward me so I thought hey nice hard shot to the nuts will stop him !! yeah I wailed him in the nuts with a good front kick and the guy kept coming managed to get me to the ground and wrestle around with me. He caught me off gaurd and by the time my brain was finished trying to figure out why he didn't fall to the ground that's when I was uprooted. In the heat of the moment you will mess up, your adrenaline is flowing like crazy, no matter how much you train for situations like that your not going to be as smooth and relaxed as you think you are.

 

 

 

I agree - probably most aren't taught correctly.

 

I think because many teachers often don't understand the underlying principles themselves, aren't willing to teach them if they do and subtle internal concepts can be very hard to teach even if they really tried.

 

Far easier and financially sustainable to lead people robotically through the motions with you class after class...instead of cutting to the chase with laser precision. Which would save the students lots of time and money, but possibly cause the teacher to lose a lot.

 

Although, a lot of time the simplest path can also be the hardest one...so that teacher's concern is not necessarily true, either.

BrokenFist64 - I would agree that you have to know what to take from each art. From WC I took the concept of fighting angles...which is the whole point of using the wooden dummy. Learning how to get around the body's major offensive and defensive weapons.

 

 

Yes I see that problem in traditional schools everyone is trying to look like the instructor and move like them, quality control is just not in place no one explains things because they themselves do not know. Just like my old twc school everyone was pushed to grade every few months and unfortunately alot of wing chun out there isn't taught correctly. My old school no one knew what fook sau was used for...

 

Everyone was concerned with how do you defend against this punch or that punch?!?! what about this situation sifu?? They get away with saying the type of wing chun their teaching is a concept based art just because they use the tan sau against 5 diff types of attacks.

 

Why not break it down into what it really is? All the "blocks" should be hitting you shouldn't be seeing what the shape of the hand is and not because your hitting fast. It's basically just counter punching A very difficult skill to learn and put into practice so it is much easier for them to just give students different applications to work on instead of spending the time and actually showing them what its all really about

 

People in this day and age want results fast and if your trying to run a business you gotta give what the people want. Also maybe since internal styles aren't so much mainstream teachers can easily get away with saying oh yeah I know the martial applications to all this its easy then just bs their way through it all Where as the external styles pressure test their stuff so right away you know if it works or doesn't work so it's harder to bs your way through that.

 

Sorry for all the blabbering everyone

edited because I pressed post too soon.

Edited May 16, 2009 by BrokenFist64